Why Don'T Thais Have Forward Thinking?

[Shotime]

When? When I asked you that question? Definitely.

Your turn.

Sometimes, I ask myself why bother.

[manarak]

Yup, it's my theory, too, that they don't have forward planning because their ancestors always had food available and didn't have to think about heating their home for the winter. I think that's part of why they don't gain weight when they eat like pigs, either. Those of us with ancestors from northern climates arise from people who were really good at finding, growing, storing food and putting on weight during the good times for fuel to get them thru winter. The ones who weren't good at forward planning simply didn't survive, so the forward planning genes were passed onto us (along with the easy weight gain genes)

Well, Vietnam has a very similar climate yet they are very shrewd people who seem to be able to think in a forward manner.

Agree or no?

If yes, why is this so?

The french ruled there for over 50 years - maybe that had an influence.

[zzaa09]

Yup, it's my theory, too, that they don't have forward planning because their ancestors always had food available and didn't have to think about heating their home for the winter. I think that's part of why they don't gain weight when they eat like pigs, either. Those of us with ancestors from northern climates arise from people who were really good at finding, growing, storing food and putting on weight during the good times for fuel to get them thru winter. The ones who weren't good at forward planning simply didn't survive, so the forward planning genes were passed onto us (along with the easy weight gain genes)

Wow! I'm taken aback. Right out of the world of Weber-esque Eurocentric models. Textbook. Classic and amusing.

[zzaa09]

Yup, it's my theory, too, that they don't have forward planning because their ancestors always had food available and didn't have to think about heating their home for the winter. I think that's part of why they don't gain weight when they eat like pigs, either. Those of us with ancestors from northern climates arise from people who were really good at finding, growing, storing food and putting on weight during the good times for fuel to get them thru winter. The ones who weren't good at forward planning simply didn't survive, so the forward planning genes were passed onto us (along with the easy weight gain genes)

Well, Vietnam has a very similar climate yet they are very shrewd people who seem to be able to think in a forward manner.

Agree or no?

If yes, why is this so?

The french ruled there for over 50 years - maybe that had an influence.

Better chance the Chinese had much more ancestral influence on the Vietnamese than did the French......

[StreetCowboy]

Yup, it's my theory, too, that they don't have forward planning because their ancestors always had food available and didn't have to think about heating their home for the winter. I think that's part of why they don't gain weight when they eat like pigs, either. Those of us with ancestors from northern climates arise from people who were really good at finding, growing, storing food and putting on weight during the good times for fuel to get them thru winter. The ones who weren't good at forward planning simply didn't survive, so the forward planning genes were passed onto us (along with the easy weight gain genes)

Wow! I'm taken aback. Right out of the world of Weber-esque Eurocentric models. Textbook. Classic and amusing.

When I want to look like a buffoon, I dismiss other people's arguments with accusation of prejudice as well.

Straying back on topic I think a lot of it has to do with differences in topology compared to China and Japan. Personally, I think societies and cultures are affected by their environment; I thought the suggestion about weight gain was an interesting aside, though I have found some dumpy little beauties (as some of my friends would say) amongst the Thai population.

Of course, as I alluded to, rice planting needs just as much forethought as any other crop, but in some countries, that is a matter of planting in the flood waters, elsewhere its a matter of communal terracing and drainage and irrigation and whatever...

Anyway, why ask why unless you're going to do something about it?

I'll answer my own question - because once you know why, it seems so much more reasonable; like my favourite 'drive on the right' road; scarey and baffling at first, but it eliminates two crossing-flows conflicts. A "Drive on the right" sign would be useful, but we can't have everything...

SC

[MSingh]

On the other hand, my girlfriend plans well. She's amazingly sharp, "pinches pennies" for a rainy day, and is a very logical thinker. And, unlike many Thai, she can think far outside the box. Really, if I hadn't seen her Thai I.D. Card, I might think she was from hawaii!

She's obviously different from all the rest then Robert..

She wasn't a Cashier by any chance before, was she ??

[samran]

There is no Thai word for planning ......... that says it all!

การวางแผ - planning

สมอง means 'brain'. Can mean intelligence. You might want to check if you are a few cents short of a dollar.

If I were you, I'd look up โง่ as well.

[samran]

Maybe this is just an Issan trait.... Have you ever noticed Thais simply don't have forward thinking abilities though?

well, going by many other threads on Thai Visa, the Issan princess who you marry, then proceed to systematically strip you of every asset before running out you of town, seem to suggest that many possess some quite good forward planning skills on their behalf.

Maybe I just know the wrong Thais,

I think this is the most accurate line in your entire post.

[singa-traz]

There is no Thai word for planning ......... that says it all!

การวางแผ - planning

สมอง means 'brain'. Can mean intelligence. You might want to check if you are a few cents short of a dollar.

If I were you, I'd look up โง่ as well.

I always thought Planning in Thai was pronounced "Plan Ning" ...

[Kilgore Trout]

Yup, it's my theory, too, that they don't have forward planning because their ancestors always had food available and didn't have to think about heating their home for the winter. I think that's part of why they don't gain weight when they eat like pigs, either. Those of us with ancestors from northern climates arise from people who were really good at finding, growing, storing food and putting on weight during the good times for fuel to get them thru winter. The ones who weren't good at forward planning simply didn't survive, so the forward planning genes were passed onto us (along with the easy weight gain genes)

Well, Vietnam has a very similar climate yet they are very shrewd people who seem to be able to think in a forward manner.

Agree or no?

If yes, why is this so?

The french ruled there for over 50 years - maybe that had an influence.

Better chance the Chinese had much more ancestral influence on the Vietnamese than did the French......

Oh, so it must be an outsiders influence then; I'm surprised one would actually say that the Vietnamese can "think" because of the french

We're not getting too colonial here are we?

Could it be possible that it is just a Thai trait and not related to the weather or a invading/colonial power?

[NanLaew]

Yup, it's my theory, too, that they don't have forward planning because their ancestors always had food available and didn't have to think about heating their home for the winter. I think that's part of why they don't gain weight when they eat like pigs, either. Those of us with ancestors from northern climates arise from people who were really good at finding, growing, storing food and putting on weight during the good times for fuel to get them thru winter. The ones who weren't good at forward planning simply didn't survive, so the forward planning genes were passed onto us (along with the easy weight gain genes)

Well, Vietnam has a very similar climate yet they are very shrewd people who seem to be able to think in a forward manner.

Agree or no?

If yes, why is this so?

The french ruled there for over 50 years - maybe that had an influence.

Better chance the Chinese had much more ancestral influence on the Vietnamese than did the French......

Since the Vietnamese are merely 'southern Chinese', I am with manarak on this one.

Thailand was never colonized and were imperially victorious over everyone in the 'hood, so who needs to think about poongnee?

Ask ANY Thai if they want ha loy today or ha pahn tomorrow, Isaanite and Thai-Chinese will take the purple now.

[regine]

There is no Thai word for planning ......... that says it all!

การวางแผ - planning

สมอง means 'brain'. Can mean intelligence. You might want to check if you are a few cents short of a dollar.

If I were you, I'd look up โง่ as well.

I agree with samran. วางแผน (wangpan) is the word.

Also, people should read "Guns, Germs, and Steel" by Jared Diamond.

[regine]

Since the Vietnamese are merely 'southern Chinese', I am with manarak on this one.

Thailand was never colonized and were imperially victorious over everyone in the 'hood, so who needs to think about poongnee?

Ask ANY Thai if they want ha loy today or ha pahn tomorrow, Isaanite and Thai-Chinese will take the purple now.

This "experiment" will either show the character of the people asked or the character of the person asking.

Maybe the person asking isn't trustworthy, in that case I'd take the money now as well.

Perhaps it's the lack of trust and not the lack of "forward thinking". Correlation does not imply causation.

[happyrobert]

On the other hand, my girlfriend plans well. She's amazingly sharp, "pinches pennies" for a rainy day, and is a very logical thinker. And, unlike many Thai, she can think far outside the box. Really, if I hadn't seen her Thai I.D. Card, I might think she was from hawaii!

She's obviously different from all the rest then Robert..

She wasn't a Cashier by any chance before, was she ??

Beauty Salon deep in the South.

[StreetCowboy]

Maybe this is just an Issan trait.... Have you ever noticed Thais simply don't have forward thinking abilities though?

well, going by many other threads on Thai Visa, the Issan princess who you marry, then proceed to systematically strip you of every asset before running out you of town, seem to suggest that many possess some quite good forward planning skills on their behalf.

Maybe I just know the wrong Thais,

I think this is the most accurate line in your entire post.

That's why they're called strippers...

SC

[Berkshire]

Maybe this is just an Issan trait.... Have you ever noticed Thais simply don't have forward thinking abilities though?

well, going by many other threads on Thai Visa, the Issan princess who you marry, then proceed to systematically strip you of every asset before running out you of town, seem to suggest that many possess some quite good forward planning skills on their behalf.

Maybe I just know the wrong Thais,

I think this is the most accurate line in your entire post.

I'm with you Samran. This thread seriously reeks. The OP makes a blatantly racist and grossly exaggerated insinuation and the twits on TV make comments as if it were a scientific fact. What's his evidence? His own personal dealings with .000001% of the Thai population, in the lowest levels of society. Which is pretty much the same evidence as the rest of the hillbillies replying here (no offense to hillbillies). Fact is, the Thais are no better or worse than foreigners, on average, when it comes to personal planning. The example you give is right on the money (re the ingenuity of the "Isaan princess"). On the flip side, how many farangs have we seen come to Thailand with little to no financial planning and inevitably run out of funds. Great example of "forward planning" there.

[StreetCowboy]

Maybe this is just an Issan trait.... Have you ever noticed Thais simply don't have forward thinking abilities though?

well, going by many other threads on Thai Visa, the Issan princess who you marry, then proceed to systematically strip you of every asset before running out you of town, seem to suggest that many possess some quite good forward planning skills on their behalf.

Maybe I just know the wrong Thais,

I think this is the most accurate line in your entire post.

I'm with you Samran. This thread seriously reeks. The OP makes a blatantly racist and grossly exaggerated insinuation and the twits on TV make comments as if it were a scientific fact. What's his evidence? His own personal dealings with .000001% of the Thai population, in the lowest levels of society. Which is pretty much the same evidence as the rest of the hillbillies replying here (no offense to hillbillies). Fact is, the Thais are no better or worse than foreigners, on average, when it comes to personal planning. The example you give is right on the money (re the ingenuity of the "Isaan princess"). On the flip side, how many farangs have we seen come to Thailand with little to no financial planning and inevitably run out of funds. Great example of "forward planning" there.

Personally, I'd concentrate on the generalisation of his post, rather than speculating on the social standing of his friends and acquaintances. One can easily ridicule another poster with reference to what he has written; to rely on one's own prejudices and bigotries to ridicule another poster is, in my opinion, less effective.

SC

[Berkshire]

Maybe this is just an Issan trait.... Have you ever noticed Thais simply don't have forward thinking abilities though?

well, going by many other threads on Thai Visa, the Issan princess who you marry, then proceed to systematically strip you of every asset before running out you of town, seem to suggest that many possess some quite good forward planning skills on their behalf.

I'm with you Samran. This thread seriously reeks. The OP makes a blatantly racist and grossly exaggerated insinuation and the twits on TV make comments as if it were a scientific fact. What's his evidence? His own personal dealings with .000001% of the Thai population, in the lowest levels of society. Which is pretty much the same evidence as the rest of the hillbillies replying here (no offense to hillbillies). Fact is, the Thais are no better or worse than foreigners, on average, when it comes to personal planning. The example you give is right on the money (re the ingenuity of the "Isaan princess"). On the flip side, how many farangs have we seen come to Thailand with little to no financial planning and inevitably run out of funds. Great example of "forward planning" there.

Personally, I'd concentrate on the generalisation of his post, rather than speculating on the social standing of his friends and acquaintances. One can easily ridicule another poster with reference to what he has written; to rely on one's own prejudices and bigotries to ridicule another poster is, in my opinion, less effective.

SC

You've got a point, of course. But sometimes, you need a sledgehammer....

[Berkshire]

Yup, it's my theory, too, that they don't have forward planning because their ancestors always had food available and didn't have to think about heating their home for the winter. I think that's part of why they don't gain weight when they eat like pigs, either. Those of us with ancestors from northern climates arise from people who were really good at finding, growing, storing food and putting on weight during the good times for fuel to get them thru winter. The ones who weren't good at forward planning simply didn't survive, so the forward planning genes were passed onto us (along with the easy weight gain genes)

Well, Vietnam has a very similar climate yet they are very shrewd people who seem to be able to think in a forward manner.

Agree or no?

If yes, why is this so?

Did Vietnam become a developed country overnight? Last I heard, Vietnam was still rather backwards with runaway inflation. How do you come to the conclusion that "they are very shrewd people who seem to be able to think in a forward manner?" You guys seem to just make up things as you go along.

[StreetCowboy]

Yup, it's my theory, too, that they don't have forward planning because their ancestors always had food available and didn't have to think about heating their home for the winter. I think that's part of why they don't gain weight when they eat like pigs, either. Those of us with ancestors from northern climates arise from people who were really good at finding, growing, storing food and putting on weight during the good times for fuel to get them thru winter. The ones who weren't good at forward planning simply didn't survive, so the forward planning genes were passed onto us (along with the easy weight gain genes)

Well, Vietnam has a very similar climate yet they are very shrewd people who seem to be able to think in a forward manner.

Agree or no?

If yes, why is this so?

Did Vietnam become a developed country overnight? Last I heard, Vietnam was still rather backwards with runaway inflation. How do you come to the conclusion that "they are very shrewd people who seem to be able to think in a forward manner?" You guys seem to just make up things as you go along.

"shrewd" as in "shrewd gypsies"

"think in a forward manner" is a euphemism for scheming and devious, I think.

None of my vietnamese friends want to live there...

I think K Trout was having a cruel and surreptitious dig at the Vietnamese. Cruel, but fair....

SC

[Kilgore Trout]

Yup, it's my theory, too, that they don't have forward planning because their ancestors always had food available and didn't have to think about heating their home for the winter. I think that's part of why they don't gain weight when they eat like pigs, either. Those of us with ancestors from northern climates arise from people who were really good at finding, growing, storing food and putting on weight during the good times for fuel to get them thru winter. The ones who weren't good at forward planning simply didn't survive, so the forward planning genes were passed onto us (along with the easy weight gain genes)

Well, Vietnam has a very similar climate yet they are very shrewd people who seem to be able to think in a forward manner.

Agree or no?

If yes, why is this so?

Did Vietnam become a developed country overnight? Last I heard, Vietnam was still rather backwards with runaway inflation. How do you come to the conclusion that "they are very shrewd people who seem to be able to think in a forward manner?" You guys seem to just make up things as you go along.

Do business with a Vietnamese and then a Thai, and compare the two. Or, go hang out in Vietnam for awhile. I make no claim to facts or statistics to back up what I said; it is just my opinion "in general" and certainly can not be applied to everyone individually.

And btw, labeling the disposition of nations by "weather" also seems to be something you are "just making up."

Long kit du dee dee

[Schooner]

I love these threads about how Thai's are different. I get that we're trying to understand them and fortify ourselves against something that we do not understand. We're searching for a way to describe what the danger is, but we're doing it from our safe, overprotected, uneducated, inexperienced point of view. If you look for the answer with a rigidly closed mind than you will never see what is right in front of you.

Thai's are every bit forward thinking as we are and they may even be more advanced. I have met Thai's who within 5 mins have analyzed me and developed a plan to get whatever they have figured I can give. I remember thinking that I wished that I could import a dozen Thai's to Florida to sell time shares because the are comsumate closers. They are constantly leading us to where they want us to go and most successful much of the time because they are always 10 moves ahead of me. Hell, I can't even beat them at connect 4 and the reason is that I, like most farang over analyze from a completly wrong mind set.

One thing I am sure of is that it is not about them. It is about me. If I come here with weaknesses of the soul they will smell it out and exploit it. If that isn't forward thinking I don't know what is.

I get that we are all trying to understand this experence and navagate the hazzards but blinding ourselves with subjective opinions will not get you there. Opening our minds might.

[StreetCowboy]

....

You've got a point, of course. But sometimes, you need a sledgehammer....

The point of the saying is not that a sledgehammer is excessive, it is that there is eff-all eating left in a nut that has been cracked with a sledgehammer.

The last time I had cause to use a sledgehammer was back in my fencing days...

I was stood at the platform waiting for my usual train home, sledgehammer in hand

"Steady on mate, the train's not that late!" the guard exclaimed

SC

[Berkshire]

And btw, labeling the disposition of nations by "weather" also seems to be something you are "just making up."

Are you suggesting that I said that? Nowhere did I ever bring up "the weather." Disagree with me if you will, but please don't put words in my mouth.

[a51mas]

Well, Vietnam has a very similar climate yet they are very shrewd people who seem to be able to think in a forward manner.

Agree or no?

If yes, why is this so?

The french ruled there for over 50 years - maybe that had an influence.

Better chance the Chinese had much more ancestral influence on the Vietnamese than did the French......

Oh, so it must be an outsiders influence then; I'm surprised one would actually say that the Vietnamese can "think" because of the french

We're not getting too colonial here are we?

Could it be possible that it is just a Thai trait and not related to the weather or a invading/colonial power?

Could it be possible that it is just an American trait, just because I've come across an American Bigot on the forum?:jerk:

[Berkshire]

I love these threads about how Thai's are different. I get that we're trying to understand them and fortify ourselves against something that we do not understand. We're searching for a way to describe what the danger is, but we're doing it from our safe, overprotected, uneducated, inexperienced point of view. If you look for the answer with a rigidly closed mind than you will never see what is right in front of you.

The problem with farangs trying to understand Thai behavior is that farangs are NOT REALLY trying to understand Thai behavior. Rather, farangs always want an explanation which almost always has negative implications towards the Thai and positive towards the farang....

I get that we are all trying to understand this experence and navagate the hazzards but blinding ourselves with subjective opinions will not get you there. Opening our minds might.

....which I'm sure is what you mean by "subjective opinions."

[carmine]

I love these threads about how Thai's are different. I get that we're trying to understand them and fortify ourselves against something that we do not understand. We're searching for a way to describe what the danger is, but we're doing it from our safe, overprotected, uneducated, inexperienced point of view. If you look for the answer with a rigidly closed mind than you will never see what is right in front of you.

The problem with farangs trying to understand Thai behavior is that farangs are NOT REALLY trying to understand Thai behavior. Rather, farangs always want an explanation which almost always has negative implications towards the Thai and positive towards the farang....

I get that we are all trying to understand this experence and navagate the hazzards but blinding ourselves with subjective opinions will not get you there. Opening our minds might.

....which I'm sure is what you mean by "subjective opinions."

Take a day off. What the hell do you mean by labelling all foreigners as not really trying to understand Thai behaviour. Your sweeping generalisations really are quite insulting.

You must be the most blinkered obsessive i've ever read on here.

[StreetCowboy]

I love these threads about how Thai's are different. I get that we're trying to understand them and fortify ourselves against something that we do not understand. We're searching for a way to describe what the danger is, but we're doing it from our safe, overprotected, uneducated, inexperienced point of view. If you look for the answer with a rigidly closed mind than you will never see what is right in front of you.

The problem with farangs trying to understand Thai behavior is that farangs are NOT REALLY trying to understand Thai behavior. Rather, farangs always want an explanation which almost always has negative implications towards the Thai and positive towards the farang....

I get that we are all trying to understand this experence and navagate the hazzards but blinding ourselves with subjective opinions will not get you there. Opening our minds might.

....which I'm sure is what you mean by "subjective opinions."

Take a day off. What the hell do you mean by labelling all foreigners as not really trying to understand Thai behaviour. Your sweeping generalisations really are quite insulting.

You must be the most blinkered obsessive i've ever read on here.

Oi! Some of us try hard, you know

SC

[carmine]

Oh SC you're so wrong. All of us "farangs" are so evil. Listen to the preachings of berkshire. This guy has never to my knowledge ever said anything pleasant about foreigners, none that i've read anyway. A true apologist keyboard warrior.

Gives me the impression he's the type that parades around in a sarong and wai's five year old kids.

Edited April 26, 2011 by carmine

[Berkshire]

Take a day off. What the hell do you mean by labelling all foreigners as not really trying to understand Thai behaviour. Your sweeping generalisations really are quite insulting.

You must be the most blinkered obsessive i've ever read on here.

And you're just the most fair-minded, objective, clear-thinking, intelligent poster of them all, aren't you Carmine? (Note heavy sarcasm) Face it, buddy, you're the exact opposite of me. You know that this thread is nothing but pig-headed generalizations and mindless trolling, yet, you've not come out to at least concede that. You're one of the serial Thai bashers on TV and I rarely see you defend Thais on any subject, regardless of how asinine the premise may be. Pot calling the kettle black, perhaps?