Od Ton อคทน

[Neeranam]

Od ton อคทน

I hear this word all the time when I'm speaking with Thai people who are having problems with drugs and alcohol. I thought I knew what it meant but am a bit confused now.

I thought it meant to be patient or tolerant, as I know od jai อดใจ

Could it mean something like "avoid" or "abstain"?

Edited October 2, 2005 by Neeranam

[Tywais]

Od ton อคทน

I hear this word all the time when I'm speaking with Thai people who are having problems with drugs and alcohol. I thought I knew what it meant but am a bit confused now.

I thought it meant to be patient or tolerant, as I know od jai อดใจ

Could it mean something like "avoid" or "abstain"?

If you break it down into its' two syllables it would be "to go without" and "to suffer". However I always assumed it meant patience also.

[taxexile]

it means "to endure" or "put up with" something of an unpleasant nature.

to endure the unpleasant cravings associated with giving up drugs.

to put up with a nagging wife , or the inescapable hardships of life.

[Tywais]

it means "to endure" or "put up with" something of an unpleasant nature.

to endure the unpleasant cravings associated with giving up drugs.

to put up with a nagging wife , or the inescapable hardships of life.

I can identify with that. Sometimes just have to tell her อคทน หมด เเล้ว

Edited October 2, 2005 by tywais

[bannork]

Od ton อคทน

I hear this word all the time when I'm speaking with Thai people who are having problems with drugs and alcohol. I thought I knew what it meant but am a bit confused now.

I thought it meant to be patient or tolerant, as I know od jai อดใจ

Could it mean something like "avoid" or "abstain"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've often heard Thai people joking about Aids, saying he's not afraid of Aids but เขากลัวอด meaning he's afraid of going without,abstaining or refraining from, obviously sex in this case. But that's notอดทน which as mentioned means to put up with..

[anaorak]

I take it to mean patience, a bit like "coy" is to wait.

[Neeranam]

I've often heard Thai people joking about Aids, saying he's not afraid of Aids but เขากลัวอด meaning he's afraid of going without,abstaining or refraining from, obviously sex in this case. But that's notอดทน which as mentioned means to put up with..

So refrain from or abstain is correct for อด. I have heard it used as in 'fasting' อดอาหาร

Someone used it today in the context of shopping. They said if they wanted something badly they were อดทน. So I feel it can mean also something like craving??

[meadish_sweetball]

For what it's worth, that usage sounds weird to me, Neeraram.

To follow my hunch, I believe what they meant is that if they wanted something... but could not get it (yet), they would just have to 'odthon' (endure, put up with) the situation.

'òd khâaw' means to starve.

There is also a pattern with 'òd... mâi dâi'.

'òd pai bòrk kháw mâi dâi' (I couldn't stop/restrain myself from telling her.)

[Abandon]

od kao should really mean to go without as in fasting. Otherwise it would be kaat aharn

od ton = endure

khanti = patience

[meadish_sweetball]

I checked this up more closely, and it turns out both meanings are actually listed in Haas:

อด òd Verb 1. to starve, be starved. 2. to refrain from. AA 3. (colloquial) not get (to do something), lose out on, miss (getting something one expected). Synonym 3. ชวด chûad

อดอยาก òd yàag verb. to be starved, be famished

น้ำอดน้ำทน náam òd náam thon (elaborate colloquial) = patience, fortitude, endurance

อดใจ òd jai = to restrain oneself

เหลืออด leua+ òd = to be unable to, or scarcely able to control oneself (usually refer. to anger); to lose control of one's temper

อดสู òd suu+ = eleg. to feel ashamed.

ความอดสู khwaam òd suu+ = shame

อดออม òd awm = to be economical, frugal

òd awm thanawm+ námjai = to deny oneself in order to defer to, humour, placate another

อดอาหาร òd aahaan+ = to starve, be starved. 2. to diet. 3. to fast.

HTH (I learned something new anyway),

Meadish

[Neeranam]

Thanks Meadish,

BTW What is Haas, is that an online dictionary?

Is that where you get those funny letters?

NN

[withnail]

Word: อด

Short Definition:

V. to starve, be starved; to refrain from; AA. colloq. not get (to do smthg).

English Definition:

V. 1. to starve, be starved; 2. to refrain from; AA. 3. colloq. not get (to do something), lose out on, miss; 4. to endure, to bear.

Examples:

ผมได้พยายามอดบุหรี่มาห้าครั๊งแล้ว I have tried to give up smoking five times already.

ดิฉันอดหัวเราะไว้ไม่อยู่ I could not refrain from laughing.

ฉันไม่สามารถอดใจฟังคำพูดอันคลุมเครือของเธอ I could not bear to listen to your ambiguous ideas.

Taken from new online html dictionary http://www.seasite.niu.edu/Thai/home_page/dictionaries.htm

Looks like it is perhaps based or Mary R Haas' dictionary (perhaps you could confirm this Meadish I don't have a copy) but also has audio clips and pictures.

[withnail]

Also found on the same page from different entries. What you were looking for in the first place.

Word: อดทน

Short Definition:

V. to be enduring, patient.

English Definition:

V. to be enduring, patient.

Examples:

สภาพเช่นนี๊เหลืออดเหลือทน Such a situation is unbearable (intolerable).

เราต้องอดทนกันต่อไป We must (have to) continue being patient.

ฉันหมดความอดทนแล้ว I hae exhausted my patience (I have come to the end of my patience).

Edit. Just noticed yet more examples on the same page perhaps you could just look at it yourself.

Edited October 3, 2005 by withnail

[Dara]

I checked this up more closely, and it turns out both meanings are actually listed in Haas:

อด òd Verb 1. to starve, be starved. 2. to refrain from. AA 3. (colloquial) not get (to do something), lose out on, miss (getting something one expected). Synonym 3. ชวด chûad

อดอยาก òd yàag verb. to be starved, be famished

น้ำอดน้ำทน náam òd náam thon (elaborate colloquial) = patience, fortitude, endurance

อดใจ òd jai = to restrain oneself

เหลืออด leua+ òd = to be unable to, or scarcely able to control oneself (usually refer. to anger); to lose control of one's temper

อดสู òd suu+ = eleg. to feel ashamed. 

ความอดสู khwaam òd suu+ = shame

อดออม òd awm = to be economical, frugal

òd awm thanawm+ námjai = to deny oneself in order to defer to, humour, placate another

อดอาหาร òd aahaan+ = to starve, be starved. 2. to diet. 3. to fast.

HTH (I learned something new anyway),

Meadish

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good variety of usage here, K'Meadish. One that I don't see here is the use of word "อด" by itself - meaning "to miss out on doing something" ie. "อดไปเที่ยว" - "didn't get to go out".....

[meadish_sweetball]

Thanks Meadish,

BTW What is Haas, is that an online dictionary?

Is that where you get those funny letters?

NN

Neeraram:

Haas is short for Thai-English Student's Dictionary by Mary Haas, ISBN 0-8047-0567-4 . If you do not already own it, it comes highly recommended. It is the most accurate Thai-English dictionary I have managed to find so far, and is used by university students of Thai all over the world.

The phonetics used here are my own, but they are a slightly modified version of the system AUA and Haas use. I use + for rising tone whereas the common symbol is an upside down ^ (which I cannot do on my keyboard), ´ for high tone, ` for low tone and ^ for falling tone. Long vowel sounds are indicated by doubling: 'mák' short, มัก but 'mâak' มาก long vowel sound. These phonetics are not based on the English writing system, they are an attempt to describe Thai with symbols and letters close to the ones used in the International Phonetic Alphabet.

Since you already read Thai, it should not be so hard for you to figure out the system, right?

withnail, great news to hear Seasite have put together an online dictionary - their site is generally very high quality, so the dictionary should be, as well. Like you said, it looks as if it is based on Haas - but I don't know more than you do - will make sure to check it out, thanks for the link.

Dara: Good addition - that was actually not listed in Haas, but I have also heard it used quite a few times in spoken Thai.

[Neeranam]

Examples:

ผมได้พยายามอดบุหรี่มาห้าครั๊งแล้ว I have tried to give up smoking five times already.

I've never heard that before, only ถอน and เลิก used. eg, ผมได้พยายามเลิกบุหรี่มาห้าครั๊งแล้ว

Remember when you get your info. from dictionaries, it's easy to mis-use it in the wrong context.

[meadish_sweetball]

Good point too, that's happened to me and probably all of us language learners a few times.

Still, Seasite is maintained by Northern Illinois University, a respected institution. I am sure they have had educated native speakers of Thai produce/select and double check the dictionary contributions before publishing them.

I think the meaning of this sentence is more focusing on "go without", "abstain from" than "quit" - เลิก ... I have never heard ถอน in this context and Google does not give any hits for ถอนบุหรี่ - could you give an example sentence with ถอน Neeraram?

131 Google hits for "อดบุหรี่" should be enough to establish it as normal usage, even though เลิกบุหรี่ is far more common with 689 hits. But I guess you would see a similar difference between "give up smoking" and "quit smoking" as well.

http://www.lannapoly.ac.th/health/web-3/1_6.htm even has a banner with "อดบุหรี่".

[yoot]

This is an example for using these words.

ถ้าหากอยากจะเลิก(อด)เหล้า ก็ต้องมีความอดทน อดกลั้นต่อสิ่งยั่วยวนใจ หากว่าอดใจไม่ได้หันกลับมาดื่มอีก ความพยายามทั้งหมดที่ทำมาก็จะสูญเปล่า

If you want to quit drinking, you have to be patient and restrain yourself from temptation. If you can’t refrain and back to drink again, all of your endeavor would be wasted.

For these examples,

ผมได้พยายามอดบุหรี่มาห้าครั้งแล้ว I have tried to give up smoking five times already.

- This sentence can use both อด and เลิก. But using the word “เลิก” is more comprehensive than “อด”

ดิฉันอดหัวเราะไว้ไม่อยู่ I could not refrain from laughing.

- This sentence should be “ดิฉันอดหัวเราะไม่ได้” or “ดิฉันกลั้นหัวเราะไว้ไม่อยู่”

ฉันไม่สามารถอดใจฟังคำพูดอันคลุมเครือของเธอ I could not bear to listen to your ambiguous ideas.

- This sentence doesn’t sound make sense. It should be “ ฉันไม่สามารถทนฟังคำพูดอันคลุมเครือของเธอ.

สภาพเช่นนี้เหลืออดเหลือทน Such a situation is unbearable (intolerable).

- This sentence would be better if you add a word “ช่าง”

สภาพเช่นนี้ช่างเหลืออดเหลือทน , ช่างเป็นสภาพที่เหลือทนอะไรเช่นนี้ , ช่างเป็นสภาพที่เหลือทนจริง ๆ

ถอน - If this word is used in the context about drinking, it means “ to neutralize “ , but in the teasing way.

For example;

If you got hangover in the morning, your friend might tease you by telling you to drink more for neutralizing. ถ้ายังเมาค้างอยู่ ก็ต้องถอนซะหน่อยสิ เอ้า ดื่ม

ถอนรากถอนโคน or หักดิบ means to quit drinking, smoking or drug by stopping drinking, smoking or using drug immediately

For example;

If you have an idea to quit drinking, smoking or using drug you must stop it immediately , don’t touch, don’t smell , don’t drink and don’t get involved with them anymore. You have to be tough and patient.

ถ้าคิดจะเลิกดื่มเหล้า, สูบบุหรี่ หรือเสพยาเสพติด ก็ต้องเลิกแบบถอนรากถอนโคน(หักดิบ) ห้ามแตะ ห้ามดม ห้ามดื่มใด ๆ ทั้งสิ้น ต้องใจแข็งและอดทน

[meadish_sweetball]

Thank you Khun Yoot, that really clarifies things.

[Neeranam]

Good point too, that's happened to me and probably all of us language learners a few times.

Still, Seasite is maintained by Northern Illinois University, a respected institution. I am sure they have had educated native speakers of Thai produce/select and double check the dictionary contributions before publishing them.

I think the meaning of this sentence is more focusing on "go without", "abstain from" than "quit" - เลิก ... I have never heard ถอน in this context and Google does not give any hits for ถอนบุหรี่ - could you give an example sentence with ถอน Neeraram?

131 Google hits for "อดบุหรี่" should be enough to establish it as normal usage, even though เลิกบุหรี่ is far more common with 689 hits. But I guess you would see a similar difference between "give up smoking" and "quit smoking" as well.

http://www.lannapoly.ac.th/health/web-3/1_6.htm even has a banner with "อดบุหรี่".

I've never thought of using google with Thai words, I don't know why

Thanks Meadish, I'll do so in future. I thiink K.Yoot has given fully comprehensive explanation of the topic words.

[Johpa]

Thanks Meadish,

BTW What is Haas, is that an online dictionary?

Is that where you get those funny letters?

NN

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Neeraram:

Haas is short for Thai-English Student's Dictionary by Mary Haas, ISBN 0-8047-0567-4 . If you do not already own it, it comes highly recommended. It is the most accurate Thai-English dictionary I have managed to find so far, and is used by university students of Thai all over the world.

I totally agree with Svenske that the Haas dictionary remains the best Thai-English dictionary for any student of the Thai language despite having been originally published over 40 years ago. There may be some newer dictionaries with more modern vocabulary, but none are as essential as the Haas.

Virtually all Thai language scholars in the US can be traced back to Mary Haas through her PhD students at Berekley who went on to establish the few original Thai language programs in the US. When I first studied Thai one could easily count the number of American colleges with a Thai course on your fingers and still have a few left over. My beginning Thai class had only 6 students under the tutelage of one of the "assistants" mentioned in the front of the Haas dictionary. I got my money's worth out of those classes. I even have a copy of her "Thai Reader" originally published in 1954 which begins with the lesson on the crow.

[Neeranam]

I heard someone using this expression today. I questioned him as to what exactly he meant. He meant that he was 'tough' that he could endure a lot of pain.