Thai Foreign Ministry Explains Border Clashes To America, China, And Vietnam

[webfact]

Foreign Ministry Explains Border Clashes to America, China, and Vietnam

The Foreign Ministry's permanent-secretary has informed representatives of the United States, China, and Vietnam that Cambodia is the aggressor, and asked them to help persuade Phnom Penh to return to the negotiation table.

At around 5 P.M. yesterday, Chinese Ambassador to Thailand Guan Mu and Vietnamese Ambassador to Thailand Ngo Duc Thang arrived at the Foreign Ministry to attend an information session conducted by Permanent-Secretary to the Foreign Ministry Theerakul Niyom.

Afterward, Foreign Ministry Spokesman Thani Thongpakdi reported that the purpose of the session was to explain the facts about the ongoing Thai-Cambodian border clashes which erupted on April 22.

The Thai government reiterated that Thailand did not start the conflict and has only been retaliating against Cambodian aggression to protect its sovereignty.

The Foreign Ministry believes escalation of the situation will not benefit any party and could affect the formation of the Asean Economic Community.

Thani noted that since China and Vietnam are good friends with both Thailand and Cambodia, they should press Phnom Penh to return to the negotiation table.

According to Thani, the Chinese ambassador said Beijing is pleased with Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya's continuous attempt to solve the issue through talks.

At the same time, Vietnam has reaffirmed that it would like to see Thailand and Cambodia resume bilateral talks while it remains neutral.

At any rate, both Chinese and Vietnamese representatives have expressed some concern and surprise over the clashes, especially as it seemed that the Thai-Cambodian relationship was moving forward positively following the agreement to have Indonesian observers deployed to the disputed area and the recent Joint Boundary Commission meeting.

On the same day, the Foreign Ministry permanent-secretary also met with the United States Ambassador to Thailand Christie Kenny.

Thailand asked the U.S. to help persuade Cambodia to end the conflict in a peaceful manner.

Kenny said the U.S. will try to proceed as requested.

The Foreign Ministry will soon hold another information session with the ambassadors from Asean and related countries.

-- Tan Network 2011-04-27

[trisailer]

Oh yea, "Hello, is this America?"

"Hi, this is Thailand, can you help us achieve peace, we're really in a bind with this Cambodia thing.

" America replies. "We'll have to get back with you on that just as soon as we loose the wars we're currently fighting"

[TimeBandit2]

Didn't Thailand just withdraw from peace negotiations? Now they want the US to broker peace negotiations?

[webfact]

DPM Suthep affirms clash with Cambodia is not as severe as to warrant recall of ambassador; asks media to be cautious about reports /TAN_network

[rkidlad]

Explaining yourself to your bosses.

[aaacorp]

Thailand : " so before we agreed on a border, but now we changed our mind"

US : " you cannot change your mind without speaking with your neighbours"

Thailand : "I don't care about neighbours, I changed my mine and want my toy back"

US : "no you can't"

Thailand : "neighbours is bad and is bullying me"

The world : "let's people who have no interest in this conflict to help you solve this issue and go there"

Thailand : "no, I can speak with my neighbour alone, look i can send them cluster bombs"

the world : cluster bombs are prohibited and you agreed on this prohibition

Thailand : "it s not cluster bomb, it s a bomb which can launch small bombs"

thailand army do not want election, elite do not want election, there will be no election, just a war to prevent election....Thailand, your people is so nice, your landscapes so beautiful....but your selfish elite and army is just a bunch of morons

[wintermute]

Oh yea, "Hello, is this America?"

"Hi, this is Thailand, can you help us achieve peace, we're really in a bind with this Cambodia thing.

" America replies. "We'll have to get back with you on that just as soon as we loose the wars we're currently fighting"

Asking the U.S. state department to mediate a regional conflict is like asking the Devil to come to the bargaining table between a petty dispute between two neighbors.

It won't end well for anyone involved.

[Thailand]

"Cambodian PM calls for truce with Thailand

PHNOM PENH, April 27, 2011 (AFP) - Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen on Wednesday called for a truce with Thailand as border clashes that have left 14 people dead on both sides entered their sixth day.

"Cambodia is appealing for a ceasefire," the premier said in a speech in the Cambodian capital Phnom Penh, adding that he was ready to hold talks with his Thai counterpart at a regional summit in Jakarta in early May.

Planned truce talks were abruptly canceled after Thailand's defence minister pulled out of a meeting with his Cambodian counterpart which had been scheduled to take place in Phnom Penh on Wednesday."

Appears to be no will by Thailand to resolve this.Perhaps the upcoming elections have to be postponed to resolve this conflict? Surely not!

[stepenwolf1958]

I am confused now???

China and US are are in Council of UN so i can understand that was reason but if that was reason, why they didn't inform other members of UN Council?

Moreover, why they informed Vietnam? Vitnam is involved in this? China and US, too?

What a mess....

[Pi Sek]

To all those who believe that this conflict has been brought about by Abhisit and/or Prawit...

I don't think that the Democrat-led coalition will be happy if events lead to a pre-election coup as it will look like they didn't keep their promise.

The army top bods on the other hand will appear unhappy "as they have had to step in again" but will be fairly smug within themselves. They'll be back in power for long enough to get one or two rule changes cemented and get a bigger slice of cake in the future. However I don't think that they will want a coup right now, because the timing is so bad (in relation to an ongoing political divide) that it might just as easily draw enough criticism to call for one or two military heads when the situation goes back to normal.

I think the only Thai groups who could benefit from a coup are PTP and PAD. PTP would use it to demonstrate why only a PTP govt can keep the army under their control (until of course the army kicks them out again!). That of course adds weight to any claim - which I do not believe, to be clear - that Thaksin has somehow recruited Hun Sen to escalate this issue just pre-election. The PAD would like it, but I really can't see how they would derive any benefit from it - they are a spent force.

The other group who have anything to gain is the Hun Sen tribe - I won't go into that though.

Yes, the Thais are denying observers but, as I've said before, the powers that be clearly do not trust the 3rd parties in question. Why? Read a history book (Thai or otherwise)! I don't agree with this standpoint, and it's maybe why the Thais are considering asking the US for mediation rather than the likes of Indonesia, ASEAN or France - but I'm not the one making the decision.

As for the cluster bomb arguments, I'm sorry but you really can't use that one. The "cluster bombs" are not categorised as cluster bombs, Cambodia uses them too and neither country has banned them - neither has the US for that matter. The cluster bombs in question are, I believe, less likely to cause civilian casualities than the multiple-shot rockets still being fired by both sides. Thailand has banned conventional cluster bombs and I think Cambodia has too.

I would have to add that the only person with a fair record in terms of hot air here is Abhisit - all other people involved (e.g. Suthep, Kasit, Jatuporn, Chamlong, the army, Hun Sen, Tea Banh, Hor Namhong) use whatever vitriol suits their needs on the day. He doesn't exactly have a "clean" record (as there are still unanswered questions about last April-May that might incriminate him or equally might incriminate Thaksin) but he doesn't outright lie... he prefers to not be forthcoming with the truth, as I'm happy that politicians probably should do in place of lieing. OK, we want the truth, but I'd prefer an "I don't know" to a "yes, service charge is included" when it's not.

Finally, I notice a lot of people saying that "Thailand doesn't want peace" or "Thailand doesn't want to resolve the dispute". I do disagree with this but their observations have basis, given the factors (which I have addressed above). I notice however that there are also nationalist elements on the Cambodian side who are making noises particularly protagonistic. These noises, and the involvement of Hun Manet to date, clearly add weight to the opposite - that Cambodia "doesn't want peace".

Someone's lieing - they probably both are. (I've even heard that this entire spat is due to a couple of opposing front line commanders in business cooperation... can't write anything off at this stage!)

I'm sure there are posters who disagree with this, but it would be a lot more helpful for you to propose another scenario rather than posting "Yeah right".

[rreddin]

"Cambodian PM calls for truce with Thailand

PHNOM PENH, April 27, 2011 (AFP) - Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen on Wednesday called for a truce with Thailand as border clashes that have left 14 people dead on both sides entered their sixth day.

"Cambodia is appealing for a ceasefire," the premier said in a speech in the Cambodian capital Phnom Penh, adding that he was ready to hold talks with his Thai counterpart at a regional summit in Jakarta in early May.

Planned truce talks were abruptly canceled after Thailand's defence minister pulled out of a meeting with his Cambodian counterpart which had been scheduled to take place in Phnom Penh on Wednesday."

Appears to be no will by Thailand to resolve this.Perhaps the upcoming elections have to be postponed to resolve this conflict? Surely not!

There is something afoot! I do not know what it is, but the politicians are not calling the shots. Lets see....House dissolution due soon to allow for elections - which, if held, could return a government that is not to the army's liking, escalation of minor border conflict - army protecting Thailand's sovereignty although no prospect of an invasion from a force protecting its own territory, LM complaint against certain red shirt leaders, recent army exercise/rehearsal in BKK, radio stations raided by the BiB. I think there might be a clue in the phrase "protecting Thailand's sovereignty" - but we won't talk about that. On the otherhand, these things could just be coincidental - like so many things are in this country.

[Credo]

Thailand is NOT asking for mediation. They are explaining their side of the argument and asking others to tell Cambodia to stop.

It's much easier to win a fight, if the other side isn't fighting.

[coma]

I am confused now???

China and US are are in Council of UN so i can understand that was reason but if that was reason, why they didn't inform other members of UN Council?

Moreover, why they informed Vietnam? Vitnam is involved in this? China and US, too?

What a mess....

Vietnam is a very big player here, Perhaps more so than the US and China. For the simple reason that if Vietnam doesn't like what is going on in Cambodia, they will just go in there and rip the place up like they have done before.

[coma]

Didn't Thailand just withdraw from peace negotiations? Now they want the US to broker peace negotiations?

Yeahhh! That is correct. There is another thread on that very topic running in conjuction with this one.

[elshaheen]

Thailand's already made a joke of themselves on the world stage. (Media, Social Networks, and etc.) Not even "The Elders" -- former presidents Martti Ahtisaari of Finland and Mary Robinson of Ireland, and former Norwegian Prime Minister Gro Brundtland -- will step in and help Thailand work out their little problem.

[asiawatcher]

Elections looming - the Govt will not act - that is understandable - it's the next Govt's problem. BUT - the army are wiling and able to act immediately there is no Govt! No coup - but...

[rubl]

Thailand's already made a joke of themselves on the world stage. (Media, Social Networks, and etc.) Not even "The Elders" -- former presidents Martti Ahtisaari of Finland and Mary Robinson of Ireland, and former Norwegian Prime Minister Gro Brundtland -- will step in and help Thailand work out their little problem.

No offence to these 'elders', but ... uh ... did anyone ask them and they refused? To my opinion former president Bill Clinton should be asked. I'm sure he wouldn't mind spending some time here and he plays a mean sax

[elshaheen]

Didn't Thailand just withdraw from peace negotiations? Now they want the US to broker peace negotiations?

Yeahhh! That is correct. There is another thread on that very topic running in conjuction with this one.

Yes, I heard something about this on Aljazeera English a few times. But, I am not sure if Cambodia pulled out of negotiations or just Thailand? We might even see it might ejaculate into a full blown conflict between both countries.

Cambodia is experienced at fighting a conflict; they just got finished with two major conflicts. The Vietnam War and the Khmer Rouge period war (1975–1979). That makes two recent wars. Number of wars in recent history has Thailand been involved with =0, except their own internal political issues.

“Al Jazeera's Wayne Hay, reporting from Korat, says that each side blames the other for the violence”

Thai-Cambodia border clash flares up again - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera’s...

[trisailer]

Come on, this is the oldest trick in the book. The way to get yourself elected is created a diversion. Create fear and let nature take it's course.

Remember george bush (short texan, always wore a silly grin) and ronny reagan (asleep at the wheel) They both used fear to get elected/reelected. When was the last time the US threat level was raised??? That's right never.

Straight out of "the art of war"

[TimeBandit2]

Didn't Thailand just withdraw from peace negotiations? Now they want the US to broker peace negotiations?

Yeahhh! That is correct. There is another thread on that very topic running in conjuction with this one.

Yes, I heard something about this on Aljazeera English a few times. But, I am not sure if Cambodia pulled out of negotiations or just Thailand? We might even see it might ejaculate into a full blown conflict between both countries.

Cambodia is experienced at fighting a conflict; they just got finished with two major conflicts. The Vietnam War and the Khmer Rouge period war (1975–1979). That makes two recent wars. Number of wars in recent history has Thailand been involved with =0, except their own internal political issues.

"Al Jazeera's Wayne Hay, reporting from Korat, says that each side blames the other for the violence"

Thai-Cambodia border clash flares up again - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera's...

Being taken over by Vietnam 30 years ago makes them experienced? At, what, losing? And 30 years ago is only recent in geologic terms.

@trisailer

Have you even read the Art of War? It's about winning without action - not manipulating elections by starting pointless skirmishes!

Edited April 27, 2011 by TimeBandit2

[Crushdepth]

Come on, this is the oldest trick in the book. The way to get yourself elected is created a diversion. Create fear and let nature take it's course.

I'm more inclined to believe it's Cambodia attempting to manipulate Thai politics and get the democrats kicked out.

[MaiChai]

Come on, this is the oldest trick in the book. The way to get yourself elected is created a diversion. Create fear and let nature take it's course.

I'm more inclined to believe it's Cambodia attempting to manipulate Thai politics and get the democrats kicked out.

I would agree with this. Probably Taksin has colluded with Hun Sen and there is probably some bigger plan behind it; that is Taksins proxy party gets back in power and thus Thailand and Cambodia can get back to that special relationship they had in Taksins time, which was much more like a business relationship.

[stepenwolf1958]

Come on, this is the oldest trick in the book. The way to get yourself elected is created a diversion. Create fear and let nature take it's course.

I'm more inclined to believe it's Cambodia attempting to manipulate Thai politics and get the democrats kicked out.

I would agree with this. Probably Taksin has colluded with Hun Sen and there is probably some bigger plan behind it; that is Taksins proxy party gets back in power and thus Thailand and Cambodia can get back to that special relationship they had in Taksins time, which was much more like a business relationship.

And the question is:

which option is better? To have peace even because of"business relationship" with neighbour, especially not so sweet neighbour as Combos are, or to have this now where Thais suffer(also Cambodians?

Which option you would vote for?

[mrparanoid]

Being taken over by Vietnam 30 years ago makes them experienced? At, what, losing? And 30 years ago is only recent in geologic terms.

Well, there was the Cambodian civil war (1970-75), then there was the Cambodian-Vietnamese war (1979-1989).. After that the fighting resumed in 1992 and continued until 1999 when the last Khmer Rouge leaders surrendered. 12 years ago. That's 29 years of war. Though the Thais were involved at times during the 1979-1989 border clashes - and this is the only real fighting they have experienced in the last hundred years..They preferred to keep out of the way and rarely got involved in any fighting unless they had to or whenever the Vietnamese/Cambodian troops set up bases INSIDE of Thailand. In fact, the 800-kilometer border was fully garrisoned by Vietnamese and Cambodian forces by 1987.

The Thais did have some "good" results though when they were shelling the Cambodian refugee camps (November 8, 1979 Thai artillery fire hit Nong Chan refugee camp, killing about 100 refugees - in June 1980 in another border clash hundreds of refugees were reported killed, many AGAIN by a Thai artillery barrage on one of the camps) And who knows how many people died when they forced 45.000 refugees at gunpoint down the mine riddled cliffs at Preah Vihear? (The UNHCR's report, written in 1979 stated that Thai troops forced about 45,000 Khmer refugees, including the old, the young, the sick and women, at gun-point to walk back to Cambodia through minefields in the Dangrek mountains near Preah Vihear temple.) There's a very detailed description of this event in the book "To destroy you is no loss" By T.B. Mam

Why post like you know the history of these two countries like the back of your hand if you really know little or nothing at all?

Edited April 27, 2011 by mrparanoid

[Scott]

Please exercise care in your remarks about other posters. Otherwise your post will have to be edited or deleted.

Thanks.