Immersion Type School; Experience, Location ?

[chubby]

hello all,

looking for a quality Immersion type school; experience, location ?

upcountry is ok, though i imagine the choices are less, though, maybe less distractions than bkk.

i was thinking phitsanolok, being less touristy/falang populated; but on the main rail lines, etc

not sure if there is anything there, though i've been through it .....

M

[Parvis]

The only "Total Immersion School" I am familiar with is Berlitz in Times Square. Their total immersion course typically is from 2-4 weeks with daily attendance. They are rather expensive - but also very professional - unlike the School I ended up with - at approx. the same price.

My familiarity with Berlitz goes back many years when I was initially introduced to Spanish - which I now speak fluently. I interviewed the School in Timesquare only - but found their material, their system and their teaching staff very professional.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Parvis

[MacWalen]

Walen is full immersion. Free demonstration so you risk nothing be sitting in a lesson. We don't have a school in Phitsanolok, perhaps Chiangmai? It is a great city, perhaps not as quiet but in comparison to Bangkok it is much less busy. Another choice might be Phuket or Pattaya.

Walen School

www.thaiwalen.com

Edited May 1, 2011 by macwalen

[DavidHouston]

Thank you, Mr. McWalen, for that important information.

That means that your students live at the teachers' homes and participate in meals with their families? Or, are there non-academic families with whom the students can live and interact? You have daytime and evening activities to enhance the students' language experience?

Are there "immersion" families available in agricultural areas also so that students can get a feel for the rural Thailand? This would be a wonderful addition for you.

More people should take advantage of these wonderful opportunities your are providing.

Walen is full immersion. Free demonstration so you ris

k nothing be sitting in a lesson. We don't have a school in Phitsanolok, perhaps Chiangmai? It is a great city, perhaps not as quiet but in comparison to Bangkok it is much less busy. Another choice might be Phuket or Pattaya.

Walen School

www.thaiwalen.com

[Tod Daniels]

I think there is more than a little disparity in the definition of the term "total immersion", especially as it relates to the O/P’s query.

While slightly off-topic, just to give everyone equal footing in this particular subject:

The various methods of foreign language acquisition are VERY WELL understood by linguistic experts in that field.

Here's a break down of various names/methods foreign languages can be taught/acquired from linguistics dot com;

Methodologies in Foreign Language Teaching

Number 10 on the list covers “total immersion”, and it’s pretty much the “cut-in-stone” definition used by far more cunning-linguists than myself, lol

Personally, I thought the sub-title of the article was quite telling too;

"Any given method is only as effective as its implementation."

In thinking about what the O/P is asking; the only private Thai language school which pops into my mind as far as abso-tively, posi-lutely having NO English spoken in class is out at AUA on Ratchadamri Road. Their ALG (Automatic Language Growth) method uses ONLY spoken Thai in their classes. There is no English translation provided, no hand-outs, no vocabulary sheets and only spoken Thai is used. Now the teachers are good at acting and mime so even a newbie can sort out what they’re on about while the teacher’s converse in Thai.

I’ve sat ‘sample’ courses at Berlitz, and in fact more private Thai language schools than I can remember! In all of those schools, teachers WILL definitely switch to English to explain things IF you can't follow the Thai version of the explanation.

Actually, this isn't an unreasonable thing to have a school do to help a student learn the Thai language. In the beginning a student simply doesn't know enough Thai vocabulary (especially in regards to grammatical terms; noun, verb, adverb, time or tense markers, classifiers, question tags, etc), to ask questions which make sense, or understand what's being explained; if it's done ONLY in Thai. If those very basic concepts aren't explained in a way you can understand them; you're left "standing out in left field" wondering how this language actually goes together. It can and often does lead to discouragement, which last time I checked, is counter productive to learning.

I did hear and read of a coupla programs offering 'home-stay' type of Thai language study. Not necessarily up-country in a one-buffalo village, but in the outlying areas of Bangkok and neighboring cities. This is where 'host families' provide accommodations and lets a foreigner studying the Thai language experience first hand how the language is spoken in a 'day-to-day' family environment. These are usually undertaken after a student has a sufficient grasp of the Thai language to "get-by-in-thai" with the basics of communication.

They can be very advantageous and the coupla students I've spoken with who've attended these types of 'programs' show a marked increase in both their understanding and clarity of spoken Thai too!

One student in particular who I spoke with not too long ago did it with a gracious Thai family for a week in Samut Prakan. Boy-o-boy could she speak some very clear Thai! Sadly, I have no idea how good her Thai was BEFORE she went to the home stay program. Therefore I couldn't really weigh in on its overall "bang-4-the-baht" in terms of her getting something out of the program, but I can’t see how it hurt either. ...

Good Luck, keep at it, don’t get discouraged. Sorry for the long post.

Hope it helped some. ..

[MacWalen]

Thank you, Mr. McWalen, for that important information.

That means that your students live at the teachers' homes and participate in meals with their families? Or, are there non-academic families with whom the students can live and interact? You have daytime and evening activities to enhance the students' language experience?

Are there "immersion" families available in agricultural areas also so that students can get a feel for the rural Thailand? This would be a wonderful addition for you.

More people should take advantage of these wonderful opportunities your are providing.

Walen is full immersion. Free demonstration so you ris

k nothing be sitting in a lesson. We don't have a school in Phitsanolok, perhaps Chiangmai? It is a great city, perhaps not as quiet but in comparison to Bangkok it is much less busy. Another choice might be Phuket or Pattaya.

Walen School

www.thaiwalen.com

Dave, have you observed our lesson to say it is not total immersion?

[Tod Daniels]

If a person Googles the phrase "Immersion Method of learning foreign language" and then reads the actual definition of “immersion method” as it relates to learning foreign languages I think this would be cleared right up.

I still think the ONLY school in Bangkok which adheres to this methodology is AUA using their ALG (Automatic Language Growth) method and where Thai is spoken 100% of the time in classes.

In fact not, a single other private Thai language school springs to mind at all ; and believe me I’ve been to most of ‘em out there.

Sadly, it's NOT how many hours of class a student sits a week that makes a student ‘immerse themselves’ in a foreign language. It’s the fact that the language being learned is the ONLY language spoken to students WHEN it’s being taught. That would exclude most ALL private Thai language schools I've personally toured, as the teachers will explain things in English if asked.

FWIW: I'm not affiliated with ANY private Thai language school in Thailand.

Edited May 2, 2011 by tod-daniels

[Maestro]

Several posts bickering about the definition of "total immersion" in the context of foreign language study have been deleted. The OP asked about "immersion type" schools, without explaining what exactly he means by that. Perhaps different people have a different understanding of "immersion type" learning. So let us stay on topic, let members recommend to the OP schools which they understand to be "immersion type" schools and relate their experiences, and let representatives of such schools explain why they consider their schools to fit this description. Then let the OP, and other interested members, weigh the schools' explanations against their own understanding of "immersion type" learning and choose a school on the basis of sample lessons.

[DavidHouston]

Thank you, Mr. McWalen, for that important information.

That means that your students live at the teachers' homes and participate in meals with their families? Or, are there non-academic families with whom the students can live and interact? You have daytime and evening activities to enhance the students' language experience?

Are there "immersion" families available in agricultural areas also so that students can get a feel for the rural Thailand? This would be a wonderful addition for you.

More people should take advantage of these wonderful opportunities your are providing.

Walen is full immersion. Free demonstration so you ris

k nothing be sitting in a lesson. We don't have a school in Phitsanolok, perhaps Chiangmai? It is a great city, perhaps not as quiet but in comparison to Bangkok it is much less busy. Another choice might be Phuket or Pattaya.

Walen School

www.thaiwalen.com

Dave, have you observed our lesson to say it is not total immersion?

Mr. MacWalen,

I am not being facetious at all. I thought that 'immersion" implies both classroom teaching and extra-classroom activities. Please educate us as to what immersion is all about.

[MacWalen]

• a method of teaching a foreign language by the exclusive use of that language, usually at a special school.

I found this definition in my Mac dictionary.

I wanted to correct one thing, I mistakenly thought that David's questions were not genuine. I got a pm from him and I would like to publicly apologize to him.

Edited May 2, 2011 by macwalen

[Tod Daniels]

• a method of teaching a foreign language by the exclusive use of that language, usually at a special school.

As strange as it seems, it would appear we’re in agreement then:). That’s the EXACT definition I found on almost EVERY linguistic site which outlines methods to teach foreign languages on Google dot com. I also linked to a similar definition in my earlier post too.

I think where we’re diverging is our individual interpretation of just what that definition entails. At least to me that term would mean NO language is used in class other than the "target language" (the one being taught). That’s the definition of a “total immersion method” I gleaned from reading about 10 linguistic websites anyway. Maybe I could be "mis-remembering" what I read, dunno . ..

This only further supports my claim that AUA's branch in Bangkok is the only one I've seen which adheres to this type of teaching methodology.

I know I say it alot, but hey I'll say it again ; I've sat free ‘sample classes’ at more private Thai schools than I can even remember!! (I also attended 180 hours of class at the Walen School in Times Square back in late 2007 when they first began teaching Thai via the Walen method. The method was so new in fact, students were getting handouts when we showed up for class with the new lesson to study!)

It doesn’t matter if you go to; PRO Language, Language Express, Piamitr, TLS - Thai Language Station, Thai Solutions, Unity Thai, Paradigm, Baan Aksorn, Sumaa, MTL - My Thai Language, Sanithai, Thai Language Hut, Baan Phassa Thai, SMIT, Jentana & Associates, or _____ <- (insert your Thai language school here) If you want, I can keep listin’ ‘em; I just wrote down schools I could remember having 'toured'!

It is my first hand experience that 99.999% of the time, without fail, every private Thai language school save one, would and will explain the words/meanings/usage in English if a student asks.

Edited May 4, 2011 by thaiphoon
Quote repaired

[Parvis]

Tod - not to belabor "Total Immersion" any further -BUT

A friend at the present time is attending just such a program and I look forward in learning more about it and observing his success. I have no association with any School.

"Berlitz Total Immersion® programs are scientifically proven to build language fluency in a short amount of time through intensive individual instruction, seven and a half hours a day for two to six weeks. The focused study builds skills quickly for students to think and speak in a new language."

Edited May 4, 2011 by Parvis

[Tod Daniels]

<SNIPPED>"Berlitz Total Immersion®"<SNIPPED>

“Parvis” Thanx that’s good to know!!

I’ll amble on over there today and see if I can’t figure out exactly what Berlitz’s particular definition of a “Total Immersion Method” happens to be . ..

Plus I need to revisit that school anyway for my reviews of Thai language schools in Bangkok which I do as a “hobby”.

Thanx for the heads up

Edited May 4, 2011 by tod-daniels

[Tod Daniels]

Well, I went to Berlitz yesterday to see if they indeed offered a “total immersion” type of program. I came away with a definite NOPE, for an answer.

MAN do they have totally incredible textbooks though! I perused levels 1-4 (in a book over an INCH thick!), and it was chock to the overflowing with really good stuff. It wasn’t written in centimeter high sized Thai but ‘normal size’. They had the Thai sentence constructs on one page and the facing page has your standard karaoke (Thai represented in English characters & symbols).

What I did find strange was; no where in the book were there English definitions for what the Thai words or sentences meant. Not when new vocab was introduced, not for the sentence constructs, nothing! Kinda makes puzzling out the meaning of Thai words a little difficult, doncha think? I mean you can’t mime or act out every Thai word , nor can a foreigner be expected to learn the usage of Thai words strictly by context either. Maybe they have a lot of ‘visual aids’. I dunno, as you can’t even sit in on a class or get a 'sample' lesson. ..

Anyway, they said their teachers will definitely answer you in English if you can’t ask a question in Thai (just like almost every school out there), so that rules Berlitz out as far as being a ‘total immersion’ dealy too.

What I came away with as far as what they actually mean by their usage of the term was; IF you enroll in a large number of lessons and take ‘em say 5 hours a day for a month; what you're doing is ‘immersing’ yourself in the Thai language. It would seem more than a little creative license is being used regarding this term.

Still they DO offer 10 levels which are quite involved and cover a LOT of good high value material. They did also say that as soon as you are capable of carrying on more than a “2-word-tourist-thai” conversation, they move you as fast as you can to speaking in Thai more and more.

Oh and just one more thing; Berlitz doesn't offer "free" ED visas or ED visa 'assistance' like most private Thai language schools do, not at all. Your visa to be here is your deal, not theirs. Their price point isn’t that competitive with the other schools out there either. They appear to be targeting a totally different “demographic” as far as Thai language students.

Anyway, I just wanted to report back about the visit.

To the O/P: good luck on findin’ what you’re lookin’ for.

Do post back and let us know where you end up!

Edited May 5, 2011 by tod-daniels

[bhoydy]

You could just pick a small town upcountry and enroll in a primary school there. You won't get more 'total immersion' than that, although you'll get a few funny looks and the uniform will be a bit of a squeeze.

[chubby]

thanks for the great info and your berlitz debrief.....

i know in BKK, there is plenty opportunity to 'use' the language, and so there is immersion available, however, i'm guessing living where one can't fall back would 'force' one, to make it work, or so i've heard, eg like with peace corps volunteers, however, i am aware, that without the basics, one also, can't get anywhere.

i have read other language threads, on 'best schools' etc. ; and even sat through a few schools samples; seems to me, at Whalen, there was a lot of wasted time, just going through the book, student by student, 'ok spell it, etc'; maybe one needs to do private lessons, to ramp up the exposure and opportunity to learn, or else date a teacher or something

[MacWalen]

Whalen = Walen

Thank you for your opinion. Some students say Walen lessons are too fast, some others (minority) say too slow. Hard to get perfect speed for everybody. Also students Spell just 2-4 words at a time followed by questions.

Did you talk to Walen students? Did they tell you that some of them have studied only for 1 or 2 months and were already able to have a simple conversation, spell Thai and read Thai without any transliteration?

Also what do you think about the book?

I have read your post again, did you only read about Walen or actually sat in a lesson?

Regards

Walen School - learn and earn much faster!

www.thaiwalen.com

For priority service please register

http://dcs.walenscho...m/1mw290910.eng

Edited May 6, 2011 by macwalen

[Parvis]

Yes indeed

Posted 2011-01-09 15:33

LanxangBillybob, on 2011-01-05 21:01, said:

Go to Walen. They accept credit cards.

As far as their method of teaching, the advantage to it is you start learning to think in Thai from square one. For example, instead of attaching 'prakaa' to the English word for pencil, you attach it directly to the object.

That's not to say that this method is for everyone, but it does have it's advantages

[bhoydy]

Yes indeed

Posted 2011-01-09 15:33

LanxangBillybob, on 2011-01-05 21:01, said:

Go to Walen. They accept credit cards.

As far as their method of teaching, the advantage to it is you start learning to think in Thai from square one. For example, instead of attaching 'prakaa' to the English word for pencil, you attach it directly to the object.

That's not to say that this method is for everyone, but it does have it's advantages

Did you learn there? If so, then they taught you incorrectly. For a start there is no 'r' sound in the word ปากกา bpaak(L) gaa(M), no matter which method you use to transliterate it. Secondly, the example you used is the word for pen, not pencil ดินสอ din(M) saaw®. Perhaps you just got mixed up though.

[MacWalen]

We do not teach transliteration so students do not know how to do it.

[bhoydy]

We do not teach transliteration so students do not know how to do it.

I didn't imply that you do, you've missed my point entirely. My point was that if the student learned there, and knew the correct sound along with the roman alphabet, he wouldn't have put an 'r' in it when transliterating it. Plus, the student used the wrong word for pencil, using the word for pen instead. Like i said though, maybe the student got mixed up.

Edited May 8, 2011 by bhoydy

[MacWalen]

We do not teach transliteration so students do not know how to do it.

I didn't imply that you do, you've missed my point entirely. My point was that if the student learned there, and knew the correct sound along with the roman alphabet, he wouldn't have put an 'r' in it when transliterating it. Plus, the student used the wrong word for pencil, using the word for pen instead. Like i said though, maybe the student got mixed up.

He must have, I can think of no other explanation.

Please come and talk to me, I will introduce you to our teachers and you can judge yourself. Also there are many other methods on the market so students have choice which is a good thing.

[Hardie]

I think there's a misconception that the more 'immersion' (less English) then the faster Thai is learned, maybe coming from a Chomskyan theory that language is somehow instinctual, therefore somehow absorbed without the normal learning process. True or not, what applies to a first language doesn't necessarily apply to the second and third. I recommend cracking the book and limiting your English-only Thai friends. If that means P-lok, then so be it, but you might consider Sukhothai next door, where standard Thai is the main language.