Rubber Trees

[thoongfoned]

that's what we have said from the start this year. 50 - 50 (we started very late....) we still buy all the bits and bobs to make the farm tick though.

last year the family that work tapping the trees said that the 40 baht was hard to make a living at. I expected this year to be a no go. but the family are willing so im not to voice my concerns at the said price, hence for me its gotta be 50 - 50 or for them its like working for very little, and I for one sure aint going out there and helping out.

[imokg2g]

I was a bit skeptical at first. Particularly when I was given the "everybody's doing it" speech. But as Darkling said, when times are tough, and if they're good workers, its a good investment.

[fezzy]

To be quite honest, if prices continued to drop at the same rate they have been, it is unlikely that I would have anybody willing to tap my trees next year. Currently I have had to renegotiated with my workers to a 50:50 split (previously 60:40). However, now they are responsible for the chemicals.

If prices rise I would insist on reverting back to a 60:40 split. That might be a tough conversation to have though... On that note, has anybody else "bit the bullet" and renegotiated the split with their workers (50:50 split or similar)?

Cheers,

I've always been 50/50 as it's my immediate family so it would feel rude to charge 60/40 .

[thaiguzzi]

Re, the above points;

# 51kg per rai per fortnight - very, very good, better than us in fact.

# I think prices have hit rock bottom, and we will see a small increase in the coming months, cup up to the high 20's by the end of the season. Maybe.

# When you say, they buy all the chemicals, i presume just the formic acid. Beware, if they are buying themselves, they will choose the cheapest option, often not formic, but hydrochloric acid. We are going through over 2.5k baht a month of formic.

# We are 60/40, and will remain so until i'm dead or i've got out of the farming game. If people have good output as we do, and other posters here (51 kg per rai per fortnight), then tappers are still getting decent money for countryside work. my tappers on 60/40 are averaging 450 baht each per tap. Sure, it's not like a couple of years ago when they were on 900 each per tap, but it's better than 350 in a 9-5 job or similar.

# My first two tappers, who still work for me, are BIL and his wife, they are still on a 40% split. To get 50%, they would have to go halves on diesel for the tractor, petrol for the strimmer, fertilizer and formic. They are not prepared to do that, so they remain on 40, and are quite happy with that.

# Remember, it is a business, and should be run as a business. We purchased the land, we paid tractor rates to clear it, we paid labour rates to fence it off, we purchased the saplings, we paid labour rates to plant said saplings, we paid labour rates to fertilize the first 7 years, we paid labour rates to strim/cut grass for 7 years, and i did all tractor work, and still do, for the last 11 years. Why should we give half the takings to tappers that just do their job, even do their job well?

# Just to make clear, if you think i'm a cold hearted bastard, my wife agrees with all the above, my tappers understand my point of view.

# As Marlon says in the Godfather, "it aint personal, it's strictly business".

Mike.

[Dakling]

If the tappers are making 450 baht/tap that ain't too shabby at all. Considering that the work is not strenuous when compared to other locally available work and at 450/tap pays 50% more than most rural day rate jobs I think they should be pretty happy at 40%. If output was lower and the workers were below 300 baht/tap I think you might have trouble keeping them (unless they are family and are willing to ride out the rough spots with you).

[cobbler]

Yes to all the above in all posts. U all have to do whst is right for you . We r lucky we have mon myanmar . I think they have less choice. So we can stay on 60 40 . However I can understand if u have good workers and they want 50 50 , take it if u r worried they will walk, then u r stuck with a butcher or a thief. Times r tuff . Do wat u can .

Oops i can hear my beer calling me . So its off with the mrs to sit in the river with s coldie . Cheers cobbler

Edited October 20, 2014 by cobbler

[thaiguzzi]

# Checked my books yesterday, got some figures wrong. We are buying 3300 bahts worth of formic per month currently. This will increase by Dec-Jan.

# My newest tappers are averaging 450 baht each per tap. My oldest tappers are averaging 575 baht each per tap (different, older trees).

# Not shabby money at 24 odd baht per kg. And this will increase in the next 3 months as the weather cools off.

# @ a 50/50 split, if the owner is still purchasing ALL the diesel, petrol, and fertilizer, then obviously, his workers (tappers) are earning more than him from the plantation. It don't make sense.

# At a 60/40 split, with the owner making all purchases of said above, then money probably evens itself out, after expenses. Again, as my previous post, no way 50/50. Without sharing ALL costs.

[Mosha]

If the tappers are making 450 baht/tap that ain't too shabby at all. Considering that the work is not strenuous when compared to other locally available work and at 450/tap pays 50% more than most rural day rate jobs I think they should be pretty happy at 40%. If output was lower and the workers were below 300 baht/tap I think you might have trouble keeping them (unless they are family and are willing to ride out the rough spots with you).

25% of my pay was shift/unsociable hours.

[thoongfoned]

just goes to show from the lastest stated figures, rubber is still agood return even at said prices.

im happy with the 50/50 split, our tappers dont earn the 500 odd a night so every little helps them, and the amount we draw from the trees at present does not even keep the our children in the basics ...............

would love to see an increase in price but i would not bet that the price will be better by this time next year, hope im not right but time will tell......... i hear that another subsidy is in the pipe line.......

[Mosha]

We had a buyer round yesterday offering 23/kg, That's up 1 in recent sales.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Mosha

[Mosha]

Sold today at 24/kg

[Mosha]

Sold today at 24/kg

Rumours of 25 Baht tomorrow.

[thaiguzzi]

Yep, 25.72 baht per kg at auction yesterday, Udon province. Prices may have hit rock bottom, and may very slowly rise. First time since last August we have had a price rise. Better data coming out in the news too, with amongst others, Japan having unusually low rubber stocks of 12,000 tons.

[thaiguzzi]

Back onto this annoying 50/50, and 60/40 split.

One pair of my tappers this past fortnight earned an average 1306 baht per tap, 8 taps in 14 days. The other pair earned an average 799 baht per tap, 9 taps in 14 days (newer trees).

Over my dead body a 50/50 split....

[Mosha]

We asked our buyer what was pushing the price up. He said China was buying it.

[imokg2g]

Sold kee yang 25.30 baht per kilo today.

Bueng Kan province.

Averaging 56.80kg per rai over 2 weeks (usual cutting regime; 2 on 1 off).

With the weather getting colder, and the prices on the rise, that should keep most of us happy.

Cheers,

J

[Mosha]

Back at 22 baht.

[thaiguzzi]

Back down to 25.08 baht per kg, cup at auction in Udon yesterday.

[cobbler]

Shit . I cant bare to talk about it

[fatfather]

Shut my plantations down for 1,5 years already for the profit is so low. Will reopen when the price nears 30 Bhat. Amazing is the growth of the trees during this time period of relaxing. Hope it pays back a little of the lost tapping seasons

Fatfather

[Mosha]

Shut my plantations down for 1,5 years already for the profit is so low. Will reopen when the price nears 30 Bhat. Amazing is the growth of the trees during this time period of relaxing. Hope it pays back a little of the lost tapping seasons

Fatfather

We all hope it comes back , but our hopes are not high.

[cobbler]

Back onto this annoying 50/50, and 60/40 split.

One pair of my tappers this past fortnight earned an average 1306 baht per tap, 8 taps in 14 days. The other pair earned an average 799 baht per tap, 9 taps in 14 days (newer trees).

Over my dead body a 50/50 split....

That seems pretty fair money to me. 1 tap = 1 nights work right? How many trees , or rai approximately r they doing to make that 1306 bart in 1 tap ?

Cheers Cobbler

Im with u on that 60/40 , maybe others dont have a choice. Maybe live in an area that they cant get workers, os good workers easily. Or r just being conned . Who knows tit

[imokg2g]

Sold kee yang 24.10 baht per kilo two days ago.

Bueng Kan province.

Averaging 42.70kg per rai over 2 weeks.

Cheers,

J

[Dakling]

Back onto this annoying 50/50, and 60/40 split.

One pair of my tappers this past fortnight earned an average 1306 baht per tap, 8 taps in 14 days. The other pair earned an average 799 baht per tap, 9 taps in 14 days (newer trees).

Over my dead body a 50/50 split....

That's crazy good money for our area, I can't imagine anyone near our village bitching about making 10k+ for 8 days work. In fact there would be a queue outside your house hoping to get on.

I am worried that when we start the new trees that production will be low and it may be hard to find tappers. Maybe running the farm part time for the first year with a 1 on/1off cycle would be better. I would like to think that the workers would hang on through a rough first year or two knowing they have a solid job to look forward to but then again folks don't seem to think that way in our neck of the woods. Might have to offer some sort of guaranteed minimum 300b/tap or something.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Dakling

[Mosha]

Daughter in Law has just sold at 21 Baht!

[cobbler]

Yep its not good mr mosha. Did u ever have a go at the pakwan?

[Mosha]

Yep its not good mr mosha. Did u ever have a go at the pakwan?

The problem is persuading the wide. If it means work she doesn't want to know.

[Mosha]

Wife

[thaiguzzi]

Back onto this annoying 50/50, and 60/40 split.

One pair of my tappers this past fortnight earned an average 1306 baht per tap, 8 taps in 14 days. The other pair earned an average 799 baht per tap, 9 taps in 14 days (newer trees).

Over my dead body a 50/50 split....

That seems pretty fair money to me. 1 tap = 1 nights work right? How many trees , or rai approximately r they doing to make that 1306 bart in 1 tap ?

Cheers Cobbler

Im with u on that 60/40 , maybe others dont have a choice. Maybe live in an area that they cant get workers, os good workers easily. Or r just being conned . Who knows tit

Approx 1800 trees on 28 rai. They have to walk the whole land with about 2200 trees on it to tap the 1800, but they are good at it, been with me since we started.. Trees 11 years old, and they will open another 100-150 next week. Yes one tap = one nights work. The other pr left this week after 3 months work. Tossers. Now my missus is back to getting up at one in the morning and tapping 1000 (yes one thousand) herself. The other 700 odd, <deleted>#ck it, i'm gonna learn to tap and do 'em myself.

[thoongfoned]

thaiguzzi you do have good tress, over here if you want anything done the way you want it done sometimes its best to do it yourself...... if the trees were are main thing for sure I would be out cutting........... on that note the wife has new people cutting for us now and at least these people want to work. just hope the enthusiasm lasts.......