Dazed And Confused

[Hydegar]

Hello,

I recently returned from a 3 month trip to Thailand (a life change event which turned into an extended holiday) of which the last 2 months I spent living with a Thai woman (36yo, I am 26yo) with whom I believe I have fallen in love with and whom I believe loves me.

The thing that troubles my mind however is that there are all too many stories of 'lost in love' foreigners who venture to Thailand and end up being tricked out of money and left heartbroken and penny less. I am writing this post to gain some advice from the people most experienced in these kind of matters.

In order for you to get a better idea of my situation please take the time to read my experience thus far.

I am an educated man and have had alot of experience with western woman before, after 2 weeks in Thailand I met a 'lottery girl' who was my first encounter with Thai/western relationships. After becoming lovestruck by this girl (who was a similar age to myself) I spent 2 weeks with her traveling Thailand and having fun. I paid for everything and I started to question her as to why this was the case. I had researched this kind of behavior from Thai woman in New Zealand before I left so I was not completely stupid to her behavior. After traveling Thailand and visiting her village I discovered that she was extremely poor and wanted me to buy her a house. I also later learned that she had a Swedish boyfriend who sent her money and eventually she left me in Bangkok to visit him for a month. I felt bad for this man as the whole 2 weeks myself and this girl 'enjoyed' each others company. Hence my education on Thai woman grew.

After being left in Bangkok, which I handled quite well as I knew this girl was not good hearted, I traveled to Huahin to relieve some steam. It was there, while getting drunk that I met the woman of topic. She was not working in the bar and was just there like myself to get drunk and have fun. We did have fun together but did not sleep together initially. She went home and I went to my hotel. The next day I tried to contact her but with no reply. The day after she contacted me and told me to leave the hotel and stay at her house. I resisted initially but eventually went with her. She later told me her friend told her to see me again and see what happens. I stayed with her for a few days and we had fun. She took me to meet her friends and their ex-pat husbands and I built up a friendship with them which I value alot. After loosing my wallet while drunk (I know stupid, but not relevant to this topic), she proceeded to pay for everything and look after me while I waited for funds. All up I spent 2 months with her, we partied, I met her family and extended family and we fought like 2 school children, myself being punched on 2 separate occasions.

Now I'm quite sure she is not a bar girl. She trained as a nurse but later had a western partner, and a baby to him, with which she co-owned a bar. They separated and split everything 50-50. She didn't work and from what I could understand was living of the proceeds of that sale and some life insurance her father left her. Her family is reasonably financially stable and educated. She lives alone just outside Huahin and and she would tell me that she doesn't like to go everywhere. She never asked for money and would get angry with me when I would spend it frivolously. I gave her 20,000 baht for the 2 months I stayed with her, but it was voluntary and she never asked for it. After 2 months like this we had fallen in love, we fought and made up time and again, we are both similar in personalty and both crazy as each other. When it came time to leave I told her I would come back as I love her, and she assured me she would wait for me.

My question is this:

Does this sound like just another 'sucker' case (she never asked for money and when I told her I could help she told me to take care of myself first) or from the little information I have provided, does it sound like I...we could really make a go of this relationship. I know we are separated by much distance but can this woman wait for me as I will wait for her. I will remain faithful as I love her and I am a moral man. I just don't want to be a stupid man.

Any advice anyone could provide would be invaluable. I am especially interested to hear from any Thai nationals with a first had view similar circumstances.

Thank you very much and sorry for the long post.

[Hydegar]

I apologise. I realise I have posted this in the wrong forum. Sorry.

[richard_smith237]

She used to Co. Own a bar.

You met her in a Bar.

She has no job.

She has a child from a previous relationship with a Westerner.

You've already given her B20,000

OP: What would you think if you were reading this story as a stranger ?

[TheWalkingMan]

...we fought like 2 school children, myself being punched on 2 separate occasions.

Violence should not be tolerated. It may seem cute and fun now, but if you end up stabbed in the gut or neck, I am sure you will be singing a different tune.

More than likely if she previously bought a bar with her partner, then she was a bargirl. I think that the percentage of Thai female bar owners, with an overseas boyfriend, who were not bargirls is very low.

You are 26 and she is 36. At 26 you should be chasing childless, single women who do not need financial assistance and who should be a lot younger than her. Just enjoy the time with her and do not think about anything more than the next romp in the sack.

TheWalkingMan

Edited May 17, 2011 by TheWalkingMan

[mrtoad]

I apologise. I realise I have posted this in the wrong forum. Sorry.

I don't think there is a "Sucker Forum". So General is probably the right place.

[Mrjlh]

Simple....move on. You're still young. You'll find someone more compatible.:jap:

[transam]

Turn around and get out while you can.

[welsh1]

20,000 baht .consider your self very lucky ..

[mrtoad]

20,000 baht .consider your self very lucky ..

That's what it stands at the moment - It's got all the hallmarks of a potential good story in a few years though.

[welsh1]

20,000 baht .consider your self very lucky ..

That's what it stands at the moment - It's got all the hallmarks of a potential good story in a few years though.

Mr T ...maybe you might be right ..

will keep a eye out for a buying my teerak some gold.how much to pay for sinsod..how much money to give the in laws threads from this OP

[slapout]

You both enjoy getting drunk, punching, fighting like school kids, she has experience in a bar, and you gave her 20,000 out of the goodness of your heart. Tell her to open a small Thai style bar at her house and try her out again the next time you come to Thailand.

She won't need additional monies as she can use the kitchen table/chairs and the stock can be purchased daily after the initial expenditure of 8000 baht or so.

[Jebhead]

Run Forrest Run...............

JH

[sarahsbloke]

Now I'm quite sure she is not a bar girl. She trained as a nurse but later had a western partner, and a baby to him, with which she co-owned a bar.

Only one type of girl works in a bar, whatever the position she held, it was always under a man.

Bar girls never refuse cash hand outs and usually have several sponsors.

But these girls can be loads of fun and make good wives (for much older men) if you are with them full time.

It won't work with you though.

Edited May 17, 2011 by sarahsbloke

[SteeleJoe]

There's so much to be said about this and I wish I had the energy to say it because I think it could possibly help; with nearly 3 decades here and having seen and heard (and even experienced a bit) so many of these tales -- especially back in the day when I was in the bar business -- I have some basis for my opinions. Plus, I'm not without some skill at critical thinking and analyisis...

I don't think I can summon that energy or altruism. but no doubt you'll get a load of input and I suspect most of it accurate (if a bit one-sided).

But I will point out one of the things that stood out to me (And a couple of quick generalizations -- which being generalizations do not always apply)::

I gave her 20,000 baht for the 2 months I stayed with her, but it was voluntary and she never asked for it.

Why did you give her that? Why did she accept it?

Think about it. (Especially the way you say "20,000 for two months" as if it were a fee).

The day after she contacted me and told me to leave the hotel and stay at her house.

Generally a "good girl" would not invite you to stay with her after meeting you one time. (In most countries that would be true but even more so here than many places).

After loosing my wallet while drunk (I know stupid, but not relevant to this topic)

Are you sure it's not relevant? No offense but I think it may be indicative of perhaps bnot the best judgement being exercised while you were here (no different from many of us, myself included, upon initial arrival).

...myself being punched on 2 separate occasions.

Unless it was in a playful manner, a girl who gets violent in a disagreement, no matter how nice she is the rest of the time, is bad news. This I learned the hard way and have the scar to prove it and I know of more than one other Farang who can attest to that as well (and one who can't attest to it because his sweet Thai girlfriend killed him).

Now I'm quite sure she is not a bar girl.

No. You aren't though you may think so. But even if she never worked in bar (and hadn't owned one) that doesn't mean she is trustworthy or sincere. Just as not every single "bar girl" is not to be trusted (I know many here will disagree but I know of the rare exception).

There are many kinds of girls out there available for westerners on a holiday, with varying intentions and ethical codes, and not all of them work in bars.

She didn't work and from what I could understand was living of the proceeds of that sale and some life insurance her father left her.

A girl with an unexplained source of income is a classic danger sign. From what you could understand? That right there tells you something -- you don't know what you are into and either can't communicate well with her and/or she is not being forthcoming with you.

She never asked for money and would get angry with me when I would spend it frivolously.

How about if you spent it on her or her family? Regardless of her intentions or her sincerity, she may have been in thsoe instances genuinely concerned for you (it happens) but she may also have justy been trying to make sure you had money to spend on her/them. Or maybe trying to show you how she wasn't after money and thus get more in the long run. Same for her not asking for the 20,000 -- long term strategy? And knowing that by not asking for it you'd give more freely right then?

After 2 months like this we had fallen in love, we fought and made up time and again, we are both similar in personalty and both crazy as each other. When it came time to leave I told her I would come back as I love her, and she assured me she would wait for me.

Classic case, I'm afraid.

Wow...I tried to keep it short and simple and I completely failed at that and still haven't finished. Maybe I'll come back to this later...

[cdnvic]

Removed some of the less helpful posts and those in poor taste. Keep it nice please.

[Hydegar]

There's so much to be said about this and I wish I had the energy to say it because I think it could possibly help; with nearly 3 decades here and having seen and heard (and even experienced a bit) so many of these tales -- especially back in the day when I was in the bar business -- I have some basis for my opinions. Plus, I'm not without some skill at critical thinking and analyisis...

I don't think I can summon that energy or altruism. but no doubt you'll get a load of input and I suspect most of it accurate (if a bit one-sided).

But I will point out one of the things that stood out to me (And a couple of quick generalizations -- which being generalizations do not always apply)::

I gave her 20,000 baht for the 2 months I stayed with her, but it was voluntary and she never asked for it.

Why did you give her that? Why did she accept it?

Think about it. (Especially the way you say "20,000 for two months" as if it were a fee).

The day after she contacted me and told me to leave the hotel and stay at her house.

Generally a "good girl" would not invite you to stay with her after meeting you one time. (In most countries that would be true but even more so here than many places).

After loosing my wallet while drunk (I know stupid, but not relevant to this topic)

Are you sure it's not relevant? No offense but I think it may be indicative of perhaps bnot the best judgement being exercised while you were here (no different from many of us, myself included, upon initial arrival).

...myself being punched on 2 separate occasions.

Unless it was in a playful manner, a girl who gets violent in a disagreement, no matter how nice she is the rest of the time, is bad news. This I learned the hard way and have the scar to prove it and I know of more than one other Farang who can attest to that as well (and one who can't attest to it because his sweet Thai girlfriend killed him).

Now I'm quite sure she is not a bar girl.

No. You aren't though you may think so. But even if she never worked in bar (and hadn't owned one) that doesn't mean she is trustworthy or sincere. Just as not every single "bar girl" is not to be trusted (I know many here will disagree but I know of the rare exception).

There are many kinds of girls out there available for westerners on a holiday, with varying intentions and ethical codes, and not all of them work in bars.

She didn't work and from what I could understand was living of the proceeds of that sale and some life insurance her father left her.

A girl with an unexplained source of income is a classic danger sign. From what you could understand? That right there tells you something -- you don't know what you are into and either can't communicate well with her and/or she is not being forthcoming with you.

She never asked for money and would get angry with me when I would spend it frivolously.

How about if you spent it on her or her family? Regardless of her intentions or her sincerity, she may have been in thsoe instances genuinely concerned for you (it happens) but she may also have justy been trying to make sure you had money to spend on her/them. Or maybe trying to show you how she wasn't after money and thus get more in the long run. Same for her not asking for the 20,000 -- long term strategy? And knowing that by not asking for it you'd give more freely right then?

After 2 months like this we had fallen in love, we fought and made up time and again, we are both similar in personalty and both crazy as each other. When it came time to leave I told her I would come back as I love her, and she assured me she would wait for me.

Classic case, I'm afraid.

Wow...I tried to keep it short and simple and I completely failed at that and still haven't finished. Maybe I'll come back to this later...

Thank you for you advice SteeleJoe. It was helpful and not just a troll post.

In regards to the 20,000 baht, from my experience in thailand, 10,000 a month in a 'good' hotel room with full services (ie cleaning, water, power, cable, etc...) and meals included seems like an accurate monthly rate. As I said, I am a moral man and for a woman to take me into her home, which she indicated was just for a few days (loosing my wallet changed that) and to feed me, clean for me and let me use her home as my own, 10000 baht a month was the figure that I thought would be appropriate. I did not come to thailand to abuse peoples hospitality.

Also, in regards to the bar ownership, she co-owned a bar with her partner in a quiet area of town (perhaps the reason it failed) which did not operate 'bar girls', all the while her partner lived with her for 6 years in thailand. He was ever present in her life. She once told me a reason their relationship failed was due to his drinking and bar hopping...

To be invited into her home, where she would show me pictures of their relationship together, his family and extended family etc, to leave me alone when she would go to market to go through all her things (which i never did) and learn all about her? This to me doesnt seem like the actions of a immoral, sneaky human being.

She also did not own a single piece of 'bar girl' clothing and when I bought her one to sex her up a bit (relax it was only 200 baht) she became shy and didnt feel comfortable.

[SteeleJoe]

Thank you for you advice SteeleJoe. It was helpful and not just a troll post.

In regards to the 20,000 baht, from my experience in thailand, 10,000 a month in a 'good' hotel room with full services (ie cleaning, water, power, cable, etc...) and meals included seems like an accurate monthly rate. As I said, I am a moral man and for a woman to take me into her home, which she indicated was just for a few days (loosing my wallet changed that) and to feed me, clean for me and let me use her home as my own, 10000 baht a month was the figure that I thought would be appropriate. I did not come to thailand to abuse peoples hospitality.

Also, in regards to the bar ownership, she co-owned a bar with her partner in a quiet area of town (perhaps the reason it failed) which did not operate 'bar girls', all the while her partner lived with her for 6 years in thailand. He was ever present in her life. She once told me a reason their relationship failed was due to his drinking and bar hopping...

To be invited into her home, where she would show me pictures of their relationship together, his family and extended family etc, to leave me alone when she would go to market to go through all her things (which i never did) and learn all about her? This to me doesnt seem like the actions of a immoral, sneaky human being.

She also did not own a single piece of 'bar girl' clothing and when I bought her one to sex her up a bit (relax it was only 200 baht) she became shy and didnt feel comfortable.

You're welcome.

I might say more when I have a moment (and some more thoughts) but for now let me say this:

Not all women here who are out to get something from you are otherwise sneaky or unethical. Some of them may be open and honest in every other way and treat you very decently all the while with the primary or even sole intention of financially benefiting. And often they are doing the same thing with another guy at the same time.

Same thing goes for conservative dress etc -- doesn't mean she's not a player (at 36 I'd be generally surprised if all but the most obvious bargirl or freelancer was wearing sexy clothes -- her generation of Thai women don't go for that much.)

I don't necessarily condemn these women. Some of them are otherwise very nice people who treat the westerner in their life very well in every other way and they are just doing what they can for themselves and/or parents and children. I can understand that and my general position is that it's the fault of the westerner if he's been suckered.

But if you are in such a situation and think it's love, there would be pain in store....

[Tonto21]

Bottom line, you already know the answer to the question you pose before you posted! Sorry OP, but did you really think you would get a rundown report of pros and cons with a flow chart! And a pop-up color diagram, high lighting any up and coming rough spots in your relationship you may encounter?

OK. What a question you ask……..You might as well ask; 'How long is apiece of string?'

Here is one free prediction I'll make, I think within a month, you will be contacted with a very sad story, (I know, brace yourself) it will be in the nature of; a sick family member, or the family buffalo, needs a new kidney, or other body part, her roof has fallen in, (heavy rain) or bike accident or some other absolutely riveting tale of woe. But don't worry money can fix everything in Thailand.

Bottom line mate watch your 6! Sorry to sound negative, butth is song is a golden oldie.

Edited May 17, 2011 by Tonto21

[SteeleJoe]

Bottom line, you already know the answer to the question you pose before you posted! Sorry OP, but did you really think you would get a rundown report of pros and cons with a flow chart! And a pop-up color diagram, high lighting any up and coming rough spots in your relationship you may encounter?

OK. What a question you ask……..You might as well ask; 'How long is apiece of string?'

Here is one free prediction I'll make, I think within a month, you will be contacted with a very sad story, (I know, brace yourself) it will be in the nature of; a sick family member, or the family buffalo, needs a new kidney, or other body part, her roof has fallen in, (heavy rain) or bike accident or some other absolutely riveting tale of woe. But don't worry money can fix everything in Thailand.

Bottom line mate watch your 6! Sorry to sound negative, butth is song is a golden oldie.

Only problem is that she might be more subtle than that and might jot reveal her hand so soon and due so in a much bigger and worse way down the line

(or just maybe sincere --but still wind up being bad news for him due to family pressures, cultural differences, communication problems etc etc etc).

Hydegar:

One thing I forgot that applies no matter what the woman is like: it's easy to be in love when you are on holiday (partying and doing as you please) -- real day to day life is often very different and, suddenly, so is the relationship.

[Hydegar]

Thank you to those of you that posted meaningful advice. I'm aware of the money scams and love trickery. I am an educated man and while I may love this woman, time heals a broken heart and I can deal with it.

I will continue to love her from afar and take my karma as it comes, without becoming broke.

Thank you again.

[mrtoad]

Hydegar:

One thing I forgot that applies no matter what the woman is like: it's easy to be in love when you are on holiday (partying and doing as you please) -- real day to day life is often very different and, suddenly, so is the relationship.

Very well said, but I suspect that much of it will fall on deaf ears.

[SteeleJoe]

Thank you to those of you that posted meaningful advice. I'm aware of the money scams and love trickery. I am an educated man and while I may love this woman, time heals a broken heart and I can deal with it.

I will continue to love her from afar and take my karma as it comes, without becoming broke.

Thank you again.

Though i wasn't at all sure, I was originally inclined to agree wit those who said the OP was too long and detailed to be a troll (and thought "rather impressive effort if it is one") but now I'm a bit less sure...

[sarahsbloke]

Also, in regards to the bar ownership, she co-owned a bar with her partner in a quiet area of town (perhaps the reason it failed) which did not operate 'bar girls', all the while her partner lived with her for 6 years in thailand. He was ever present in her life. She once told me a reason their relationship failed was due to his drinking and bar hopping...

I don't know of any 'farang bar' where there aren't prostitutes (either employed direct or freelance)

Any girl who works in such a bar would not be there if she had a problem with prostitution.

Respectable Thai girls I know, won't even enter a road where they know a 'farang bar' is situated.

You really can't believe what she tells you, it will be whatever she thinks you want to hear (this is pretty true about all Thais, male and female)

[colinscarr]

Hydegar,

Try looking at it a different way.

IF you were to marry her, suddenly it's no longer a holiday romance. You have to live together (no problem you say) and earn a crust/keep a roof over your heads etc. Aged 26, you sure as heck can't even think about a retirement visa, so what kind of Thai visa would you get? Or is the master plan (I use the last word loosely!) to take her back to your home country? Is that her long term aim, to get residency there and then dump you?

Sorry to be so apparently cynical, but your story screams problems at me.

My advice is to ignore any tragic tales you may hear about sick buffaloes/relatives etc, and take your next holiday somewhere in the Caribbean or Latin America.

[bkkmick]

Let's all hope that she is indeed a good girl (and that she didn't steal your wallet and use your money to support you).

Good luck however you choose to play it.

[MAJIC]

"Does this sound like just another Sucker case"

In answer to your question above!

YES.

But GoodLuck anyway,i'm sure you will make up your own mind eventually!

[kamluan]

to the land of smiles.....

Edited May 17, 2011 by kamluan

[KeyserSoze01]

Dazed and Confused. An anthem from my youth by the greatest rock-n-roll band of all time, Led Zeppelin.

As for the OP, you might have found a good one, or she is playing the long game. Watch your heart and wallet.

Edited May 17, 2011 by KeyserSoze01

[SteeleJoe]

(and that she didn't steal your wallet and use your money to support you).

Oh, da_n! Why didn't I think of that.

It's happened before...

[NancyL]

You've already given her the contents of your wallet and 20,000 baht. What do you think?

This is a woman who is well past her "use-by" date. I suspect she's working on multiple options for her retirement plan.

In America, there's a name for what you feel -- it's called the "white knight syndrome", Google it and see if you want to join the club.

Edited May 17, 2011 by NancyL