Warning About Hualumphong Toilet

[expatman]

A WARNING !

Last week my wife was drugged and robbed in the ladies toilet at Hualumphong train station.

In the toilet she was approached by two women who applied some kind of fast-acting drug to her arm which made her very woozy.

She came to sometime later in the toilet stall when some concerned bystanders noticed the door was not locked and shook her awake.

Her watch, wedding ring, and gold necklace were missing.They didn't get her phone or wallet because she left those with my son who was waiting outside with the toilet attendent.

The toilet attendent was asked why she hadn't done anything for a long time until my son started asking why mommy wasn't coming out. Her excuse was that she thought my wife might have been sick or constipated. As for the two women who were hanging around the washroom, she knew nothing about that. But isn't it her job to look after the washroom, not just collect the money (perhaps she was in on it ?).

[kurnell]

Fast acting arm drug?? I am keen to hear expert opinions on what this could have been.

[robblok]

Fast acting arm drug?? I am keen to hear expert opinions on what this could have been.

Real strange story.. leaving your money and phone with a (presumably) young kid. Are you sure she did not pawn the stuff.

I have not really heard of fast acting drugs that are absorbed through the skin. There are drugs that act fast but they have to be inhaled.

Just before i get flamed here, the wife might be innocent just find it a real fishy story.

[CharlieH]

inhaled, ie: chloraphorm or derivative possibly, but absorbed through the skin and that fast is highly unlikely, something not right in this story for sure.

[kurnell]

Fishy indeed

[colinthailand20005]

My wife's sister claimed almost exactly the same last year, she had gold stolen only, but she didn't lose her purse either, apparently they were left in her room. She was in Pratunam shopping at the time and claimed a gang robbed her, but it didn't make sense why she wouldn't of had her purse with her, and she calmly ate pork bbq with us later.

I really didn't understand what happened, I knew something had happened because she was now less about 2 baht of gold, but her story didn't make sense.

Did she owe someone money from the past, and saw them, and they had to settle up on the quiet? (Maybe)

Did she get robbed under different circumstances but too shy to tell the truth? (Maybe)

Did she sell the gold? (Maybe)

Something else? (Maybe)

You will never know, and it probably won't happen again. Just be glad she is safe.

Edited May 22, 2011 by colinthailand20005

[Kilgore Trout]

inhaled, ie: chloraphorm or derivative possibly, but absorbed through the skin and that fast is highly unlikely, something not right in this story for sure.

I heard hippies used to mix this one with LSD and swab it on the door handles of cop cars.

Dimethyl sulfoxide

[chuang]

Don't just blame the toilet's attendent, her duty is to collect an entry-fee if it is a requirement..and to clean the toilets but not to look after those who patronise it..." perhaps she was in on it ".what a sweeping statment...

Edited May 22, 2011 by chuang

[Longbow212]

I know of this scam/robbery. The drug used is only licensed to zoos for sedating elephants. Tiny amounts on the skin of humans rapidly leads unconsciousness or even death if the dose is too big. I am talking about tiny tiny amounts that are needed, I am not aware of any other drug that has such powerful effects for such a small dose. This scam has occurred many times in Thailand in busy places.

[afarang]

Much more information ,please.

[expatman]

I know of this scam/robbery. The drug used is only licensed to zoos for sedating elephants. Tiny amounts on the skin of humans rapidly leads unconsciousness or even death if the dose is too big. I am talking about tiny tiny amounts that are needed, I am not aware of any other drug that has such powerful effects for such a small dose. This scam has occurred many times in Thailand in busy places.

Well, finally someone who believes the story, rather than the idiots who hang out on Thai Visa always looking to suggest the poster is lying (but I expected this).

BTW, my wife had previously told me this type of thing had happened before to a friend of hers in MBK shopping mall - woke up in a quiet corner with all her gold missing. I also was initially suspicious, thinking it had to be some kind of injected or inhaled drug, but I later talked with her friend and she confirmed the story.

I'm curious to find out what kind of drug this is and how criminals can obtain it.

[expatman]

Don't just blame the toilet's attendent, her duty is to collect an entry-fee if it is a requirement..and to clean the toilets but not to look after those who patronise it..." perhaps she was in on it ".what a sweeping statment...

Isn't it her job to be suspicious of people who hang out in the toilet for a long time ?

She also didn't seem to be too concerned or want to do anything about the robbery (like calling the police).

[lopburi3]

There is such a drug robbery and it is very common in shopping centers. Normally it is enough to allow confusion; verbally attack and grab/scratch arm and later they are able to befriend the victim into thinking they are helping. Normally it is two women who take the subject into toilet - not sure if further drug involved then - in our family case some years ago they claimed person had there gold and used intimidation - taking gold and cash (which was not much but she dressed well so likely picked for that reason) but leaving enough for taxi they talked victim into believing it was a mistake they had returned everything and they must sit and wait for them to return - after a few minutes victim recovered enough to know they had been had but very disoriented. Police report was filed and they said there had been a number of such incidents. Have seen occasional reports of teams being arrested over the years. So yes I believe it could be true.

[robblok]

I know of this scam/robbery. The drug used is only licensed to zoos for sedating elephants. Tiny amounts on the skin of humans rapidly leads unconsciousness or even death if the dose is too big. I am talking about tiny tiny amounts that are needed, I am not aware of any other drug that has such powerful effects for such a small dose. This scam has occurred many times in Thailand in busy places.

Well, finally someone who believes the story, rather than the idiots who hang out on Thai Visa always looking to suggest the poster is lying (but I expected this).

BTW, my wife had previously told me this type of thing had happened before to a friend of hers in MBK shopping mall - woke up in a quiet corner with all her gold missing. I also was initially suspicious, thinking it had to be some kind of injected or inhaled drug, but I later talked with her friend and she confirmed the story.

I'm curious to find out what kind of drug this is and how criminals can obtain it.

Sure i live just to make other people feel bad. I just have never heard of this drug plus my explanation is more plausible. But if you come up with a name of the drug ill 100% believe you. Im not over admitting when i am wrong. But until i see some real proof (name of drug and i will research it) i still find it a funny story.

[Kilgore Trout]

I know of this scam/robbery. The drug used is only licensed to zoos for sedating elephants. Tiny amounts on the skin of humans rapidly leads unconsciousness or even death if the dose is too big. I am talking about tiny tiny amounts that are needed, I am not aware of any other drug that has such powerful effects for such a small dose. This scam has occurred many times in Thailand in busy places.

Well, finally someone who believes the story, rather than the idiots who hang out on Thai Visa always looking to suggest the poster is lying (but I expected this).

BTW, my wife had previously told me this type of thing had happened before to a friend of hers in MBK shopping mall - woke up in a quiet corner with all her gold missing. I also was initially suspicious, thinking it had to be some kind of injected or inhaled drug, but I later talked with her friend and she confirmed the story.

I'm curious to find out what kind of drug this is and how criminals can obtain it.

Sure i live just to make other people feel bad. I just have never heard of this drug plus my explanation is more plausible. But if you come up with a name of the drug ill 100% believe you. Im not over admitting when i am wrong. But until i see some real proof (name of drug and i will research it) i still find it a funny story.

Did you follow my link, it is DMSO; commonly used on horses etc. such as in zoos, as another poster pointed out.

Dimethl sulfoxide.

[expatman]

Sure i live just to make other people feel bad. I just have never heard of this drug plus my explanation is more plausible. But if you come up with a name of the drug ill 100% believe you. Im not over admitting when i am wrong. But until i see some real proof (name of drug and i will research it) i still find it a funny story.

I'm sure there are lots of things you have never heard of. Do you automatically disbelieve the existence of all those things ?

[SteeleJoe]

Don't know what happened and don't claim to. But while I've heard similar stories, I've always wondered...

If such a thing is possible (and maybe it is) it seems like it would be used widely in crimes all over the world - but I don't see any reports of it. And I can't find anything that tells me Dimethl Sulfoxide would knock someone unconscious. Anyone got a source for documented previous incidents or effects like those described?

[kurnell]

Searching google I see a lot of references to this alleged method of drugging people, but no proven cases. Mostly referred to as wives tales/urban legends

[expatman]

Don't know what happened and don't claim to. But while I've heard similar stories, I've always wondered...

If such a thing is possible (and maybe it is) it seems like it would be used widely in crimes all over the world - but I don't see any reports of it. And I can't find anything that tells me Dimethl Sulfoxide would knock someone unconscious. Anyone got a source for documented previous incidents or effects like those described?

If you carefully read the article cited by another poster you will realize that it is probably not just DMSO, but DMSO (a solvent) mixed with another drug to form a "drug delivery system" :

FROM THE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE :

"Use of DMSO in medicine dates from around 1963, when a Oregon Health & Science University Medical School team, headed by Stanley Jacob, discovered it could penetrate the skin and other membranes without damaging them and could carry other compounds into a biological system. In medicine, DMSO is predominantly used as a topical analgesic, a vehicle for topical application of pharmaceuticals, as an anti-inflammatory, and an antioxidant.[citation needed]. Because DMSO increases the rate of absorption of some compounds through organic tissues including skin, it can be used as a drug delivery system."

Some examples of using DMSO in combination with other drugs to treat horses are also given.

[ukrules]

If you carefully read the article cited by another poster you will realize that it is probably not just DMSO, but DMSO (a solvent) mixed with another drug to form a "drug delivery system" :

I do wonder about this, if something like this DMSO stuff (which I've never heard of before) was mixed with some form of dissolved phenobarbital or other barbiturate and provided an adequate delivery system then perhaps it would produce similar effects. If hippies used to mix it with LSD then I'm sure it could be used with a variety of other substances.

[kurnell]

Oh dear. Are some of you chaps aware that Santa and the Easter bunny don't really exist?

[SteeleJoe]

Don't know what happened and don't claim to. But while I've heard similar stories, I've always wondered...

If such a thing is possible (and maybe it is) it seems like it would be used widely in crimes all over the world - but I don't see any reports of it. And I can't find anything that tells me Dimethl Sulfoxide would knock someone unconscious. Anyone got a source for documented previous incidents or effects like those described?

If you carefully read the article cited by another poster you will realize that it is probably not just DMSO, but DMSO (a solvent) mixed with another drug to form a "drug delivery system" :

FROM THE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE :

"Use of DMSO in medicine dates from around 1963, when a Oregon Health & Science University Medical School team, headed by Stanley Jacob, discovered it could penetrate the skin and other membranes without damaging them and could carry other compounds into a biological system. In medicine, DMSO is predominantly used as a topical analgesic, a vehicle for topical application of pharmaceuticals, as an anti-inflammatory, and an antioxidant.[citation needed]. Because DMSO increases the rate of absorption of some compounds through organic tissues including skin, it can be used as a drug delivery system."

Some examples of using DMSO in combination with other drugs to treat horses are also given.

Actually I did see that but what I didn't see was any reference to it being used in a crime nor being used in conjunction with a powerful and rapid tranquilizer or such. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence -- but I'm just looking for some evidence and seems like if Thai bathroom robbers knew about how to use this to knock out people (or animals), then it would have been used elsewhere -- for good or evil -- and reported.

And as far as horses -- why didn't you just quote that?

DMSO is commonly used in veterinary medicine as a liniment for horses, alone or in combination with other ingredients. In the latter case, often, the intended function of the DMSO is as a solvent, to carry the other ingredients across the skin. Also in horses, DMSO is used intravenously, again alone or in combination with other drugs. It is used alone for the treatment of increased intracranial pressure and/or cerebral edema in horses.

Nothing about tranquilizing horses (though that doesn't mean it isn't done, it seems like it might not be omitted if it were).

[ukrules]

Oh dear. Are some of you chaps aware that Santa and the Easter bunny don't really exist?

Before I read the enlightening post regarding DMSO I would have thought this was complete bullshit as well, however googling "transdermal drug delivery DMSO" may provide you with some similarly enlightening information.

Or just look here : http://www.dmso.org/articles/information/muir.htm

[SteeleJoe]

Oh dear. Are some of you chaps aware that Santa and the Easter bunny don't really exist?

Before I read the enlightening post regarding DMSO I would have thought this was complete bullshit as well, however googling "transdermal drug delivery DMSO" may provide you with some similarly enlightening information.

Or just look here : http://www.dmso.org/...mation/muir.htm

Looked. Maybe I've missed it but still don't see anything that mentions it being used in relevant ways (and again: doesn't mean it can't be -- but why wouldn't it be mentioned?)

[partington]

If you carefully read the article cited by another poster you will realize that it is probably not just DMSO, but DMSO (a solvent) mixed with another drug to form a "drug delivery system" :

I do wonder about this, if something like this DMSO stuff (which I've never heard of before) was mixed with some form of dissolved phenobarbital or other barbiturate and provided an adequate delivery system then perhaps it would produce similar effects. If hippies used to mix it with LSD then I'm sure it could be used with a variety of other substances.

Dimethyl sulfoxide is ONLY, as someone has already pointed out, a solvent. It is as correctly stated here, very often used as a delivery vehicle for drugs. On its own it is almost completely harmless, and especially at the sort of amounts that could be brushed onto somebody's skin in a semi-surreptitious attempt to "drug them". I know this because I have worked in the pharmaceutical industry for more than 10 years. I myself have dissolved many compounds in dimethyl sulfoxide with my own hands, and on more than one occasion spilled a load of it in very large quantities all over my fingers, with no ill effects whatsoever.

So the dimethyl sulfoxide alone story is palpable nonsense.

I would put almost no credence in the tranquiliser/animal sedative delivery story either. I have also myself quite a lot of experience in delivering these to animals, and the point is that to tranquilize an animal you have to get a lot in. The amount is dependent on body weight, and is usually calculated by body weight of animal. So if a 1kg rabbit needs 50 milligrams, ( a realistic enough dose for most animal anaesthetics) a 70 kg human would need 3.5grams for a complete knockout. Say half that is needed to feel woozy. That means you would need to dissolve nearly 2g of the sedative in a volume of dimethyl sulfoxide small enough to brush on someone's skin without the whole lot just rolling off, not much more than a few drops (say max 1/4 of a ml) or 8g of the drug per ml of DMSO. Nothing's that soluble, not even in DMSO.

So I have absolutely no belief in this either.

The idea that even if this impossibility could be achieved that it would be absorbed and render a person woozy in a few seconds is also absolutely beyond belief (even LSD itself wouldn't do this -I'm sure the cops 1960's LSD tale is an urban myth, but the point about LSD is that the doses needed are absolutely tiny, really minute, unlike sedatives, so this would have slightly more credibility)

So I personally am completely sceptical of this entire tale, without name of drug and some verifiable link to show that this has ever worked in the manner stated.

The idea that this is a deception to try and cover up what really happened and why makes much more sense to me, and I'd bet on it.

[SteeleJoe]

Dimethyl sulfoxide is ONLY, as someone has already pointed out, a solvent... On its own it is almost completely harmless, and especially at the sort of amounts that could be brushed onto somebody's skin in a semi-surreptitious attempt to "drug them"...

So the dimethyl sulfoxide alone story is palpable nonsense.

I would put almost no credence in the tranquiliser/animal sedative delivery story either. I have also myself quite a lot of experience in delivering these to animals, and the point is that to tranquilize an animal you have to get a lot in. The amount is dependent on body weight, and is usually calculated by body weight of animal. So if a 1kg rabbit needs 50 milligrams, ( a realistic enough dose for most animal anaesthetics) a 70 kg human would need 3.5grams for a complete knockout. Say half that is needed to feel woozy. That means you would need to dissolve nearly 2g of the sedative in a volume of dimethyl sulfoxide small enough to brush on someone's skin without the whole lot just rolling off, not much more than a few drops (say max 1/4 of a ml) or 8g of the drug per ml of DMSO. Nothing's that soluble, not even in DMSO.

So I have absolutely no belief in this either.

The idea that even if this impossibility could be achieved that it would be absorbed and render a person woozy in a few seconds is also absolutely beyond belief (even LSD itself wouldn't do this -I'm sure the cops 1960's LSD tale is an urban myth, but the point about LSD is that the doses needed are absolutely tiny, really minute, unlike sedatives, so this would have slightly more credibility)

So I personally am completely sceptical of this entire tale, without name of drug and some verifiable link to show that this has ever worked in the manner stated.

The idea that this is a deception to try and cover up what really happened and why makes much more sense to me, and I'd bet on it.

Interesting and informative post.

But not the least bit surprising (even someone almost completely ignorant of the subject like me was guessing pretty much everything said above).

And while I may be wrong about it, I didn't even bother mentioning the LSD and the cops thing before because that seemed like such an obvious myth.

[robblok]

If you carefully read the article cited by another poster you will realize that it is probably not just DMSO, but DMSO (a solvent) mixed with another drug to form a "drug delivery system" :

I do wonder about this, if something like this DMSO stuff (which I've never heard of before) was mixed with some form of dissolved phenobarbital or other barbiturate and provided an adequate delivery system then perhaps it would produce similar effects. If hippies used to mix it with LSD then I'm sure it could be used with a variety of other substances.

Dimethyl sulfoxide is ONLY, as someone has already pointed out, a solvent. It is as correctly stated here, very often used as a delivery vehicle for drugs. On its own it is almost completely harmless, and especially at the sort of amounts that could be brushed onto somebody's skin in a semi-surreptitious attempt to "drug them". I know this because I have worked in the pharmaceutical industry for more than 10 years. I myself have dissolved many compounds in dimethyl sulfoxide with my own hands, and on more than one occasion spilled a load of it in very large quantities all over my fingers, with no ill effects whatsoever.

So the dimethyl sulfoxide alone story is palpable nonsense.

I would put almost no credence in the tranquiliser/animal sedative delivery story either. I have also myself quite a lot of experience in delivering these to animals, and the point is that to tranquilize an animal you have to get a lot in. The amount is dependent on body weight, and is usually calculated by body weight of animal. So if a 1kg rabbit needs 50 milligrams, ( a realistic enough dose for most animal anaesthetics) a 70 kg human would need 3.5grams for a complete knockout. Say half that is needed to feel woozy. That means you would need to dissolve nearly 2g of the sedative in a volume of dimethyl sulfoxide small enough to brush on someone's skin without the whole lot just rolling off, not much more than a few drops (say max 1/4 of a ml) or 8g of the drug per ml of DMSO. Nothing's that soluble, not even in DMSO.

So I have absolutely no belief in this either.

The idea that even if this impossibility could be achieved that it would be absorbed and render a person woozy in a few seconds is also absolutely beyond belief (even LSD itself wouldn't do this -I'm sure the cops 1960's LSD tale is an urban myth, but the point about LSD is that the doses needed are absolutely tiny, really minute, unlike sedatives, so this would have slightly more credibility)

So I personally am completely sceptical of this entire tale, without name of drug and some verifiable link to show that this has ever worked in the manner stated.

The idea that this is a deception to try and cover up what really happened and why makes much more sense to me, and I'd bet on it.

Thanks, that is what we needed someone with knowledge from the field. Ill believe it and ill change my views if i can be proven wrong.

[robblok]

Sure i live just to make other people feel bad. I just have never heard of this drug plus my explanation is more plausible. But if you come up with a name of the drug ill 100% believe you. Im not over admitting when i am wrong. But until i see some real proof (name of drug and i will research it) i still find it a funny story.

I'm sure there are lots of things you have never heard of. Do you automatically disbelieve the existence of all those things ?

Of course not but this rumor was something i have heard before and it was debunked before. So i did look into it i am not a expert but i did some research. I could not find anything to substantiate your claim. Does not mean your not right but so far there is more evidence against it then supporting it.

Just look at that other post from someone who works in the field. How a solvent would have a hard time getting enough of the stuff in your body in a short time. If this was available it would be widely used and therefore publicized about. It would be perfect for black ops and so on, criminals would use it a lot then someone would write about it and explain the science behind it.

[gardening9966]

There is such a drug robbery and it is very common in shopping centers. Normally it is enough to allow confusion; verbally attack and grab/scratch arm and later they are able to befriend the victim into thinking they are helping. Normally it is two women who take the subject into toilet - not sure if further drug involved then - in our family case some years ago they claimed person had there gold and used intimidation - taking gold and cash (which was not much but she dressed well so likely picked for that reason) but leaving enough for taxi they talked victim into believing it was a mistake they had returned everything and they must sit and wait for them to return - after a few minutes victim recovered enough to know they had been had but very disoriented. Police report was filed and they said there had been a number of such incidents. Have seen occasional reports of teams being arrested over the years. So yes I believe it could be true.

Believe it or not but it has been proven true in Thailand. It does happen. Good luck to those who think it is a lie .

[partington]

There is such a drug robbery and it is very common in shopping centers. Normally it is enough to allow confusion; verbally attack and grab/scratch arm and later they are able to befriend the victim into thinking they are helping. Normally it is two women who take the subject into toilet - not sure if further drug involved then - in our family case some years ago they claimed person had there gold and used intimidation - taking gold and cash (which was not much but she dressed well so likely picked for that reason) but leaving enough for taxi they talked victim into believing it was a mistake they had returned everything and they must sit and wait for them to return - after a few minutes victim recovered enough to know they had been had but very disoriented. Police report was filed and they said there had been a number of such incidents. Have seen occasional reports of teams being arrested over the years. So yes I believe it could be true.

Believe it or not but it has been proven true in Thailand. It does happen. Good luck to those who think it is a lie .

Something that is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence

Christopher Hitchens

This is not about slipping a large dose into someone's drink, which is possible, and probably has happened a few times, (but since most of these stories come from people who are dead drunk in what are effectively brothels, I would hazard a guess that this actually happens 0.01% as frequently as it is reported to happen.)

OR perhaps they used these!!!!!

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/clubbers-ditch-ketamine-for-elephant-tranquilisers-200901161515/

Edited May 22, 2011 by partington