A Question Thaksin Will Not Answer

[scorecard]

It's been five years since the coup and how far have we got with the other 5 of these corruption charges? The problem in Thailand is that Law Enforcement is selective, the process a snail's pace, and weakly applied. I suspect that the reason the establishment have not nailed Thaksin to the cross more than just three cases is that too many of their own will be implicated.

... rest removed

As far as I know court cases against k. Thaksin are awaiting his return to be able to proceed. No such thing as 'in absentia'

My Thai legal colleagues tell me that, in some of these cases there is a second factor. Prosecutors have 'information' which needs to be substantiated by documentary evidence, and/or police statements from many high ranking ministerial staff from many ministries. In many cases:

- The documents can't be found, often with acknowledgement that numerous storage boxes have totally disappeared

- The high level ministerial staff won't cooperate, because:

a. They will incriminate themselves or their buddies if they give evidence

b. They are terrified that if thaksin did ever return they will be severely punished

I'll say again, Thailand urgently needs to change the constitution / the electoral laws so that is is impossible for one man or one small group to gain such power and control, and make the penalties for vote buying and corruption even more severe; like ban for life from any form or activity, even arms length activity in politics, plus return of any funds gained through corruption or collusion with fines perhaps by a multiple of 100 of the funds stole, plus public shaming.

They won't though...where else can you have terrorists running for government? In Thailand you do the crime but you rarely do the time especially if you have money and patronage and / or public sympathy. Agree Thailand will only progress when a constitution is locked in place and bound by all parties along with an agreed plan on confronting corruption head on. Until then it is struck in a void of nothingness at the mercy of the greediest.

"......at the mercy of the greediest"

Well said!

[scorecard]

To also get your "elected" statement into perspective .... Thaksin was elected twice .. dissolved parliament years early in 2006 and was caretaker PM, publicly resigned the caretaker PM position and finally returned to that position even though there was no constitutional way for him to do so.....

To get this into perspective, this member has long been peddling this unhistorical piffle - for reasons which are obscure since whatever interpretation is accepted, it doesn't excuse the criminality of the coup makers or the disastrous events it triggered.The fact is Thaksin's administration was overthrown, nobody else's.Any respected newspaper or commentator at the time was under no doubt about this.

You gave a link to an excellent article recently explaining how Thaksin was not the elected PM at the time of the coup. Unfortunately, I can't find it again.

So jayboy, what are you suggesting, a return to the state of play and players immediately before the coup, or.........

[jdinasia]

To get this into perspective, this member has long been peddling this unhistorical piffle - for reasons which are obscure since whatever interpretation is accepted, it doesn't excuse the criminality of the coup makers or the disastrous events it triggered.The fact is Thaksin's administration was overthrown, nobody else's.Any respected newspaper or commentator at the time was under no doubt about this.

You gave a link to an excellent article recently explaining how Thaksin was not the elected PM at the time of the coup. Unfortunately, I can't find it again.

So jayboy, what are you suggesting, a return to the state of play and players immediately before the coup, or.........

"unhistorical piffle" LOL It is a simple fact that Thaksin was overthrown by a coup, agreed. It is not a simple fact that at the time of the coup, he was either elected (he wasn't), or had the right to step back into the caretaker slot that he had publicly resigned from.

Tasker seems to think that the coup wasn't that bad ... and ... well ...

From Asia Times Online Oct 19th 2006 ---

By Rodney Tasker

CHIANG MAI, Thailand - The conventional Western perception of coups is of a military faction or individual seizing power for selfish, often anti-democratic reasons. There is little flexibility in this mindset - hence the uniform denunciation of Thailand's latest military coup by the US and other Western democracies.

Western media op-ed writers, apparently relying on precious little on-the-ground background, have highlighted the fact that ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra was a democratically elected

leader and therefore any non-elective move against him was necessarily bad for the future of Thailand's democracy.

Such simplistic interpretations, however, just don't fit with the current Thai situation and woefully ignore the reform mentality of professional generals in today's Thai army, including coup-leader General Sonthi Boonyaratglin and former army commander, now interim Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont. Professional in the Thai context translates to military officers who take their oath of allegiance to protect the monarchy and state seriously, overriding any lure of power and money.

[jdinasia]

You gave a link to an excellent article recently explaining how Thaksin was not the elected PM at the time of the coup. Unfortunately, I can't find it again.

Was it this one?

http://www.economist.com/node/6767105

Thaksin quits

Thailand’s prime minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, will be replaced by his chief deputy, Chidchai Vanasathidya.

[Thaddeus]

First time I ever saw the list laid out.

TheWalkingMan

Impressive list isn't it, and probably only scratches the surface.

[whybother]

Was it this one?

http://www.economist.com/node/6767105

NO. But thanks for the reminder that it was in the Economist. Here is my reply to Jayboy's post.

The usual special pleading from the military cheerleader faction, trying to excuse the criminals who launched the 2006 coup on the grounds Thaksin was a caretaker PM.

If we are quoting The Economist , which I agree is reliable on Thai politics, let's see what it said at the time of the coup itself

http://www.economist.com/node/7942244

From which it is quite clear see that the military gangsters launched their coup against the elected Prime Minister, Thaksin.

You'll need to point out the section that makes it "quite clear" that the coup was "against the elected Prime Minister, Thaksin".

All I could find was these:

"He won again in 2005, and would presumably have won a third time, in the snap election he called in April 2006, had the opposition not boycotted the poll, in effect invalidating the vote."

"Long poorly governed, Thailand has been adrift since the failed April election."

"Mr Thaksin returned to the prime minister's office to run the country as caretaker until a fresh election could be held."

[jdinasia]

The rest of that Tasker article is really interesting. Sadly, I do not think it is appropriate to post the link ... but I bet if you dropped it into google ....

[samurai]

The rest of that Tasker article is really interesting. Sadly, I do not think it is appropriate to post the link ... but I bet if you dropped it into google ....

Why you quote and argue with the help of an article when you exactly know that a link to this article would violate forum rule 2).

Is that a baiting tactic?

[lanna2011]

What about the old German submarines purchased by the current government? No money laundering there, surely..

Can you explain further because I cant see the link. Whereas with Thaksin I can clearly see the theft, the muirder, the corruption, the lying andc the cheating

Were you on the jury for Thakins trial? Or is that "hamg him on the rumor"

I still believe the surest way that the Dems can win the election, is by providing an amnesty/organising Thaksins sentence to a suspended sentence....and make him an "Advisor" to the newly elected Democrat Government. (basicly steal PTP prime trump card).

There is no disputing his business and organising expertise. He would be an asset to any Govt. but if he puts a foot wrong he is easliy grabbed and gets locked up again. An implanted electronic tag would .signal where he is at any point in time.

There is no disputing his business and organising expertise. He would be an asset to any Govt.

The man is a crook in the tradition of the Marcos family. No deal.

like Suthep you mean?

[ianbaggie]

There is no disputing his business and organising expertise.

Well yes, when it comes to running businesses that enjoy a complete monopoly in the market place. Would be interesting to see how successful he would be were he to head up a business that was open to competition on a level playing surface.

I don't know of one business that will level a playing field to encourage the opposition....... ......in fact most would appear to strive to have continuous advantage over any competition

Which is exactly why most western governments practice monopoly regulation. Thaksins last attempt at Government did away with that idea for Thailand and preferred instead to allow his monopolies to have complete market monopoly even taking to court those who questioned the fairness of it.

[ianbaggie]

What is with Interpol?

Interpol wouldn't touch him with a bargepole. He was elected, he was deposed by a military coup. The courts, during the coup makers regime then convicted him of corruption. Interpol would regard it as a political conviction.

He was convicted for conflict of interests in 2008. Interpol sees that as "a political conviction" or "political motivated".

And about the get Thaksin as the terrorists, as described by some poster here or the Thai government - I guess they didn't even try to request some help by Interpol or any other foreign state with that charge.

Samurai - regarding your suggestion to bring imterpol into the proceedings - shall we get James Bond on the case too?

[ianbaggie]

To also get your "elected" statement into perspective .... Thaksin was elected twice .. dissolved parliament years early in 2006 and was caretaker PM, publicly resigned the caretaker PM position and finally returned to that position even though there was no constitutional way for him to do so.....

To get this into perspective, this member has long been peddling this unhistorical piffle - for reasons which are obscure since whatever interpretation is accepted, it doesn't excuse the criminality of the coup makers or the disastrous events it triggered.The fact is Thaksin's administration was overthrown, nobody else's.Any respected newspaper or commentator at the time was under no doubt about this.

..................and a jolly good job it was overthrown too - by now hed have sold Bangkok street lighting and put the proceeds into Shincorp

[473geo]

There is no disputing his business and organising expertise.

Well yes, when it comes to running businesses that enjoy a complete monopoly in the market place. Would be interesting to see how successful he would be were he to head up a business that was open to competition on a level playing surface.

I don't know of one business that will level a playing field to encourage the opposition....... ......in fact most would appear to strive to have continuous advantage over any competition

Which is exactly why most western governments practice monopoly regulation. Thaksins last attempt at Government did away with that idea for Thailand and preferred instead to allow his monopolies to have complete market monopoly even taking to court those who questioned the fairness of it.

There is good business, and there is fair business, not necessarily the same thing........I once took on work that a company could not finish.....they were in receivership.....I was paid twice the going rate because until the work was completed the receiver would not have the income from the contract......I did the company in receivership a favour....but not everybody saw it that way