The Dowry

[mrbojangles]

the cash was gone so they loaded up the cow in the truck and took it home.

Fair enough, really. Especially after only 2 weeks.

[sbk]

My Thai nephew just got married (two days ago!) to a Thai girl. He paid 'sin sod'. My brother-in-law paid it when he married his wife. If you have a wedding, you pay it. We didn't have a wedding so I didn't get any

bloody hel_l how can you say my wife wasn't worth much and then marry her!

Don't have a clue what you are talking about here. My point was that if you don't have a wedding there is no sin sod payment. One can get married without having a wedding, you know.

[RamdomChances]

Been to countless (well i can't count them anyway ) wedding's here, during the wedding season can be a couple a week and I've never been to one where sin sot was'nt paid/shown, although I've got to admit I dont go to that many in the day and not many "town" weddings

Lop was right, traditanaly it the both sets of parents that decide the ammount, usually decided at the engagment, well announced at the engagument. The gold part is often given at the engaugment as well.

SBK I did'nt know what he was on about either

Ozzy....60,000 for a cow, they was done

[simon43]

My Thai 'wife' has a young daughter from a previous relationship. They lived together as husband and wife, but did not legally marry. He was then killed in a motorbike accident..

Based on previous postings in this thread, it would appear that I need pay nothing at out forthcoming wedding, and actually I should be due a large payment from her parents for being so generous as to take her off their hands and care for her daughter

Would these posters please accompany me to the Moobahn on 22nd of this month to discuss this with her parents?! They clearly don't understand Thai culture

Simon (happy to pay Sinsot for parents who have supported their daughter through good and bad times....)

[Khutan]

I had a long discussion about this about a month ago to some "Old People" who put an interesting spin on things. They are from a very rural and austere life-style. This was also to do when particularly in rural Thailand, all marraiges were arranged, and the daughter had little choice in the matter.

The first point they got across, was that every wanted their daughter to marry-up. Therefore a sin-sod was a custom to ensure that the family she was joining was able to take care of her.

The second and more interesting point was if the marraige only lasted one night, then a portion of the sin-sod was returned. So maybe a "traveller" came to the village or town, and decided to "marry" a girl, he could then go on his way and only lose a portion of the sin-sod.

It is interesting to hear the stories some of these old people have to say about what their grand-parents etc did, now probably 100 years ago.

[a2396]

to be returned mate

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

RETURNED?? That's a laugh. My lady's family used it to pay off thier house mortgage.

[a2396]

As far as I am concerned, this is one of the most corupt aspect of Thai society, or any others that are practicing this ancient rite in the 21st century. It shows a person is for sale and to me is degrading to the man who pays it and the family/woman who is receiving it. I would think wealty Thais marry other wealthy Thais and have determined the financial worthiness of any prospective groom. I hardly think some financial contribution is a necessity to the stability of the relationship. Poor Thais are left to scrape and scratch for some "tribute/face-saving" money that may benefit the couple's married life or it may not. Better if the couple kept the money in a joint bank account to provide for thier future. If you want to see women bought and sold, you know where to find it. Depends what is long-term or short-term.

[mrbojangles]

As far as I am concerned, this is one of the most corupt aspect of Thai society, or any others that are practicing this ancient rite in the 21st century. It shows a person is for sale and to me is degrading to the man who pays it and the family/woman who is receiving it. I would think wealty Thais marry other wealthy Thais and have determined the financial worthiness of any prospective groom. I hardly think some financial contribution is a necessity to the stability of the relationship. Poor Thais are left to scrape and scratch for some "tribute/face-saving" money that may benefit the couple's married life or it may not. Better if the couple kept the money in a joint bank account to provide for thier future. If you want to see women bought and sold, you know where to find it. Depends what is long-term or short-term.

I know where your'e coming from a2396, but to be happy, you've got to accept other people's cultures. We look at it from A Western view. This is what they do, if we don't like it, we shouldn't get involved with them. Slightly off topic but is it in India (or Pakistan) not sure, where it is the other way around. The parents of the Daughter pay to the Parents of the Male.

[opothai]

is thier such a big gulf in the cultures ?

dave one of my golfing buddies has just forked out £17,500. to pay for his daughters wedding, is it not tradition for the brides parents in england to pay for the wedding. although saying that i hope i do not have to pay that sort of money for my daughters wedding,

i married my wife [thai] in england and have not paid a sin sot, but we do help the family out with monetory problems now and again. when we do have a ceramony in thailand it has been agreed that the money given to the parents will be returned to us.

[sua yai]

Dowry in India is certainly paid from wife to husband. Unfortunately, there's such a thing called bride burning there where the h's family demand more money after the event. If her family dosn't pay up, she's set on fire. It's got to the stage where, in parts of the UK heavily populated by Indians, a wife who dies in a house fire immediately points the police in the direction of the hb and his family.

Couldn't agree more with opothai. The costs to the b's family used to be horrendous. Hence the old saying after a child was born - "oh no, not another girl". In the main, the costs are now shared.

I got married here 3 mths ago. After much negotiation, my wife's mother agreed to a sin sod of 50,000 to be paid over 5 months. There will be no party on 4th Nov at the blessing when her Mum, who's a Buddhist nun, will perform the ceremony at her temple. The first installment is due then.

Do I feel like I've bought my wife? Well, yes a bit. However, after the Amphur thing we're living very happily together and it's given me time to sort my finances out both here and back in the UK with my business.

All in all, not a bad deal I feel. Especially after talking to friends who have not paid any sin sod, but seem happy after forking out small fortunes on parties. Where did that money go? Pissed up against the wall, I would suggest.

[2 satang]

It is definitely the custom in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dont generalise.

Muslim in the south do not practice sinsot, nor do the christian Thais.

There you go.

just my 2 satang

[Gary A]

I think you are the one who is generalizing. I don't know about the muslims but I do know that christian Thai people follow the same customs as Buddhists.

It is definitely the custom in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dont generalise.

Muslim in the south do not practice sinsot, nor do the christian Thais.

There you go.

just my 2 satang

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[sbk]

It's interesting, I wonder how many farangs who paid sin sod got it back? Traditionally it is returned to the young couple so they have money to start their new lives together. I have never heard of a family here keeping the sin sod for themselves but maybe the south is different than the north.

And just as btw 2satang, here generalizations do apply because the population is largely Buddhist:

Buddhist 94.6%, Muslim 4.6%, Christian 0.7%, other 0.1% (2000 census)

[billd766]

I got married in the UK and I did not pay any sin sot. On the other hand I do support my wifes parents who are my age (her Dad is a couple of years older and her Mum a couple of years younger) and he is retired.

My wifes second brother did pay sin sot and I went to the evening part of the wedding and as far as I know most of the money was returned.

He drives a mini bus in BKK but is having a "legal" problem with the company he was working through (it cost him 200,000 baht to get "permission" to usew the bus on a route plus xxxx amount a month).

He was given a health warning (asking for your money back can be dangerous to your health) and is now staying with us for a while.

Family is family anyway so it is no big deal to us.

We are paying the repayments on his mini bus and when it is sorted out he will pay us back (or not, mai pen rai).

[Diablo Bob]

When asking the Thais, did you use the word "sinsod"? Maybe Thais don't understand what you're talking about if you use the word "dowry" and/or described it as a "paying for wife" transaction, because "sinsod" or "sinsod thong mahn" is the term used, not "dowry", and from a Thai person's perspective it's not considered "paying".

I hate the term "pay" used for sinsod, because to me it's a gift you offer to the bride's parents as a show of respect and gratitude for taking care of her all these years. Traditionally, it was also a way to show the parents of the girl that you have the financial security to support her, and that they are not marrying her off to some baht-less loser.

However, as with many customs around the world in this modern day and age, the custom of "sinsod" is not always followed, and in most cases it is now simply "for show", often agreed upon and arranged together by both parties. This is the case for most middle-class relationships I know of.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Said well, and I have a new perspective on the practice....

When I married my wife, the "Sinsod" was not used to purchase a new karake system and a few bikes, but was used to pay for the after ceremony bash, band, catered food etc.......

Coming from the West, where traditionally the brides family pays for the wedding and reception, I just thought this a great way to shift the burden towards the groom.

Now, after your response, I appreciate my in-laws even more than before...... it added another dimension to the practice and softened the practice in my eyes.

Thanks for the information.

[Diablo Bob]

As far as I am concerned, this is one of the most corupt aspect of Thai society, or any others that are practicing this ancient rite in the 21st century. It shows a person is for sale and to me is degrading to the man who pays it and the family/woman who is receiving it. I would think wealty Thais marry other wealthy Thais and have determined the financial worthiness of any prospective groom. I hardly think some financial contribution is a necessity to the stability of the relationship. Poor Thais are left to scrape and scratch for some "tribute/face-saving" money that may benefit the couple's married life or it may not. Better if the couple kept the money in a joint bank account to provide for thier future. If you want to see women bought and sold, you know where to find it. Depends what is long-term or short-term.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know where your'e coming from a2396, but to be happy, you've got to accept other people's cultures. We look at it from A Western view. This is what they do, if we don't like it, we shouldn't get involved with them. Slightly off topic but is it in India (or Pakistan) not sure, where it is the other way around. The parents of the Daughter pay to the Parents of the Male.

India for sure......

I am not sure of Pakistan.

Afghanistan is like India, this I know.

There was a book a few years ago called "The Burning Bed" about India, where brides were killed because the grooms were unhappy with their compensation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Diablo Bob]

It's interesting, I wonder how many farangs who paid sin sod got it back? Traditionally it is returned to the young couple so they have money to start their new lives together. I have never heard of a family here keeping the sin sod for themselves but maybe the south is different than the north.

And just as btw 2satang, here generalizations do apply because the population is largely Buddhist:

Buddhist 94.6%, Muslim 4.6%, Christian 0.7%, other 0.1% (2000 census)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

SBK, you know, I never realized that the Muslims constitute just 4.6% of the population here in Thailand......

(OFF TOPIC) Makes me rethink some of the issues in the South. Thanks for the data.

[2 satang]

I think you are the one who is generalizing. I don't know about the muslims but I do know that christian Thai people follow the same customs as Buddhists. 

It is definitely the custom in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dont generalise.

Muslim in the south do not practice sinsot, nor do the christian Thais.

There you go.

just my 2 satang

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, you mean they get married in a temple as well, etc .... ?

Well, just to inform you, christian Thai people do NOT practice sinsot.

Just ask around.

2 satang

[sbk]

Sin sod has nothing to do with the temple and monks never get involved, it is strictly between the families. In fact, I have never (in 16 years) been to a Thai wedding at a temple. They are all in the home with only immediate family members involved in the actual ceremony.

[Gary A]

I guess that the two christian couples who are friends of mine and who were married in the catholic church didn't know that. Both couples observed the custom.

Oh, you mean they get married in a temple as well, etc .... ?

Well, just to inform you, christian Thai people do NOT practice sinsot.

Just ask around.

[mrbojangles]

Sin sod has nothing to do with the temple and monks never get involved.

That could possibly be why the Monk at the Temple in the UK, who was asked the initial question, hadn't heard of it ?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

and he was a westerner