"Gifts" To My Lady'S Family.

[CaptainFantastic]

Apologies if this is posted in the wrong section - please feel free to move, Admin .

Short story.

I've visited my long-term Thai GF's family on a number of occasions over the past few years.

My business has been suffering a little during the current economic climate, so I haven't been to LOS for two years but am planning to go again, shortly.

In the past, I've always been quite generous (I think) with her family. Last visit I paid for pretty much everything during the trip, restaurants and day outs and took them all on holiday to the seaside and Bangkok for a few days each etc., which I gather (rightly or wrongly) is pretty much "expected".

Additionally, I've always given each family member a financial gift on arrival and whatever Thai Baht was remaining of my holiday budget upon departure to the Airport for the flight home.

Last trip, my "arrival-gifts" ranged from 3k TB to each of her siblings and 5k to her mum. Even her cousins received 2k and the youngest of toddlers 500TB each.

This trip, I can't really sustain these payments and still have enough spare cash to fully enjoy my own holiday.

Have I made a rod for my own back, though, now? I'm guessing similar gifts will be expected (and why shouldn't they be, from their points of view?).

What welcome might I receive when my gift is significantly lower than on the previous occasions and even not forthcoming at all for those not within the immediate family circle.

I know that "Face" is important in LOS and don't want to appear a Cheap-Charlie (but, if I am one, so be it. I think I'm of a pretty generous spirit).

I'm in a proper quandary about this, so would appreciate some help and guidance.

[vont]

You are with all my empathy.

You need to tell your girl friend the truth.

The truth is the truth, whether she and her family members can accept it or not, is another story altogether.

Imho, you only need to gift her mother perhaps the usual amount and cut off all the rest.

And perhaps, you ought to throw a small party for everyone instead, if you are the party type.

If you ask me, you really need not go into debt to entertain someone or please someone at your own financial perils.

What worries me more is the very fact that you have not been with your girlfriend for two years (?) since your last visit....

What does she have to say about all these absences make people's hearts grow much fonder stuff....?

Wishing you the very best, nevertheless.

[CaptainFantastic]

You are with all my empathy.

You need to tell your girl friend the truth.

The truth is the truth, whether she and her family members can accept it or not, is another story altogether.

Imho, you only need to gift her mother perhaps the usual amount and cut off all the rest.

And perhaps, you ought to throw a small party for everyone instead, if you are the party type.

If you ask me, you really need not go into debt to entertain someone or please someone at your own financial perils.

What worries me more is the very fact that you have not been with your girlfriend for two years (?) since your last visit....

What does she have to say about all these absences make people's hearts grow much fonder stuff....?

Wishing you the very best, nevertheless.

Thanks for the reply.

Just to clarify, though - I'm not impoverished, just not as flush as on my previous visits and paying out a good few hundred £terling before we even start the party rolling, whilst not placing me in debt as such is not really a viable option on this trip.

Also, my GF lives with me here in UK and returned solo for her customary annual trip last year. Being the boss of a small business that has had to adapt due to market forces in the past few years means that no-one pays me when I'm sick or not working - except me. Consequently, my trips away = the cost of the trip AND the loss of earnings during said trip.

Don't want any violins, although I appreciate your empathy with my sorry plight ( OK., maybe just one more , then - .

She's fully aware of the current belt-tightening but I suspect is probably more affected by the "Face" aspect than myself, due to her social upbringing.

I was simply wondering whether these gifts I generally make are usual, excessive or even under-par and whether I should just lay the situation down before my GF before we go and suggest that she pre-warns her family not to get too excited at the farang's imminent arrival, on this particular occasion.

Thanks for replying and for your kind words.

[Atmos]

I'm bewildered by the OP - is it for real or a joke - visions of this extended family sitting with their hands out, like baby birds in the nest with their beaks open.

I too have a Thai family; but they don't 'have me'

I have never made, or been asked to make, any specific gifts to any family members apart from a couple of occasions, at my partner's wedding when we gave 5000 of our money to the couple as a gift; I'd happily have given more but was told 5k was the agreed amount for the other brothers/sisters; second was for my partner's niece starting uni and we gave her 2k this month for no particular reason, just a 'good luck'.

We travel often and will buy something small for her mother and nieces/nephews - silk scarf/t-shirts.

Re the 'face' issue, think it works both ways, as with my 'give them 10k for the wedding' suggestion there can be a face problem if my partner is seen to be 'showing off/better than the others' - the family is not by any means 'hard-up' all the siblings have good jobs, and to simply give money to the mother might be seen as an insult.

[richard_smith237]

Maybe change your Thai visa name to 'Deputy Ok' (sorry)....

Let your GF handle it before you go. Everyone should be aware if the recent economic crunch and that the tightening if the purse strings to remain afloat is necessary.

Before you travel your GF can save face by pointing out how hard you have worked to not go under... And as such, money is tight, hence no gifts....

A respectful family will understand this and still offer you the same welcome and respect. If not, they are nit deserving if gifts in the first place.

Perhaps time to 'relay the foundations' ...

[CaptainFantastic]

Some very good points made that seem to be affirmation that, as I see it, the family should welcome me for who I am as a person rather than what I am (the rich farang).

I think the suggestion to "relay the foundations" is a great one but maybe easier said than done as my GF works hard in the UK and sends almost everything back to support her family with (IMHO - but that's all it is - opinion) that they have become a little lazy and rely upon her monthly contribution to the detriment of really working hard to look after themselves.

The foundations were laid by my GF and have been built upon in similar fashion over a period of many years.

Thanks for the input.:jap:

[hehehoho]

lol.

I'm sure they respect you enough at this stage not to worry about such things.

People who give money away for nothing here are greatly respected and never thought of as utter fools.

[CaptainFantastic]

lol.

I'm sure they respect you enough at this stage not to worry about such things.

People who give money away for nothing here are greatly respected and never thought of as utter fools.

OUCHH!!!

That hurts.

(But then, the truth often does).

Guess I was right in my OP when I referred to having "made my own bed".

Thanks for pointing out what I probably already knew, but may have been in denial of.

[ozzieovaseas]

I'm bewildered by the OP - is it for real or a joke - visions of this extended family sitting with their hands out, like baby birds in the nest with their beaks open.

I too have a Thai family; but they don't 'have me'

I have never made, or been asked to make, any specific gifts to any family members apart from a couple of occasions, at my partner's wedding when we gave 5000 of our money to the couple as a gift; I'd happily have given more but was told 5k was the agreed amount for the other brothers/sisters; second was for my partner's niece starting uni and we gave her 2k this month for no particular reason, just a 'good luck'.

We travel often and will buy something small for her mother and nieces/nephews - silk scarf/t-shirts.

Re the 'face' issue, think it works both ways, as with my 'give them 10k for the wedding' suggestion there can be a face problem if my partner is seen to be 'showing off/better than the others' - the family is not by any means 'hard-up' all the siblings have good jobs, and to simply give money to the mother might be seen as an insult.

Now that is a funny picture

Actually to be fair, it doesnt sound like the family were originally waiting or expecting this, rather the OP has set the precedent by throwing his dosh around willy-nilly.

Maybe the analogy of a flock of skwarking seagulls in a feeding frenzy might be more accurate...and it is all the Ops making, since he has thrown them a kings banquet of 5 star fish and chips

So,why did you feel the need to do that in the first place?

Im just interested, you just mentioned the timeframe of 2 years, so how long did you know these people when you first started this father farang christmas getup?

Actually i find this a little hard to swallow. I do hope you are just a kind hearted guy and not trolling, but i fear you will get a right trouncing on this thread

[CaptainFantastic]

I'm bewildered by the OP - is it for real or a joke - visions of this extended family sitting with their hands out, like baby birds in the nest with their beaks open.

I too have a Thai family; but they don't 'have me'

I have never made, or been asked to make, any specific gifts to any family members apart from a couple of occasions, at my partner's wedding when we gave 5000 of our money to the couple as a gift; I'd happily have given more but was told 5k was the agreed amount for the other brothers/sisters; second was for my partner's niece starting uni and we gave her 2k this month for no particular reason, just a 'good luck'.

We travel often and will buy something small for her mother and nieces/nephews - silk scarf/t-shirts.

Re the 'face' issue, think it works both ways, as with my 'give them 10k for the wedding' suggestion there can be a face problem if my partner is seen to be 'showing off/better than the others' - the family is not by any means 'hard-up' all the siblings have good jobs, and to simply give money to the mother might be seen as an insult.

Now that is a funny picture

Actually to be fair, it doesnt sound like the family were originally waiting or expecting this, rather the OP has set the precedent by throwing his dosh around willy-nilly. Well, I was guided by my GF on my first trip (which was xmas and it was sort of given at a time when we Westerners do tend to exchange gifts). As they are a relatively poor family, I have repeated the gift on each subsequent visit, is all.

Maybe the analogy of a flock of skwarking seagulls in a feeding frenzy might be more accurate...and it is all the Ops making, since he has thrown them a kings banquet of 5 star fish and chips An analogy that hasn't been lost on myself, on occasion.

So,why did you feel the need to do that in the first place? As stated a gift was suggested by my GF and I asked some guys I know who have Thai GF's or wives and with the odd exception, the majority seemed to confirm that they, too, gave cash gifts if the family were "poor". I was initially concerned that offering a financial gift might be seen as an insult, but (surprise, surprise) if poor people are insulted - they hide it very well.

Im just interested, you just mentioned the timeframe of 2 years, so how long did you know these people when you first started this father farang christmas getup? Two years since I've been back. Have been visiting for 10 years.

Actually i find this a little hard to swallow. I do hope you are just a kind hearted guy and not trolling, but i fear you will get a right trouncing on this thread Maybe right but its only words and I can take it. There will be the usual wholly predictable "nasties" from those with nothing better to do and not the type of people I would mix with, anyway, so bring it on.

At the end of the day, all I've spent is a few kBaht. In the grand scheme of things, there are guys on this board and elsewhere that buy entire tracts of land and even businesses for their Thai "relatives" so I don't feel too hard done by.

Am interested to hear if I'm the only one that has made a bed for himself of this nature. I'm guessing not. But few may have the gonads to 'fess up to it.

Any suggestions, from those in the know - who may have had (or be aware of) similar experiences, still gratefully received.

Edited May 28, 2011 by CaptainFantastic

[MAJIC]

"Have I made a Rod for my own back"?

Well You said it!

Time to stop worrying about their "Face" (which is a nonsense idea anyway) which suits them,and now it's time to think about yourself,especially as your GF has been financing them,for the past 2 years,which has been given indirectly, from your family budget! as the saying goes "Charity begins at Home"

Whatever you give them,in most cases will never be enough,anyway,which your GF seems to know already.

So stop worrying and have a good time! you owe them nothing.

Edited May 28, 2011 by MAJIC

[transam]

ONCE YOU start the pay out '' I am a millionaire '' stuff there is no turning back, if the cash stops then you are an ass-hole in their eyes. Big mistake by you and NO explanation will fix it.

[CaptainFantastic]

Maybe change your Thai visa name to 'Deputy Ok' (sorry)....

Let your GF handle it before you go. Everyone should be aware if the recent economic crunch and that the tightening if the purse strings to remain afloat is necessary.

Before you travel your GF can save face by pointing out how hard you have worked to not go under... And as such, money is tight, hence no gifts....

A respectful family will understand this and still offer you the same welcome and respect. If not, they are nit deserving if gifts in the first place.

Perhaps time to 'relay the foundations' ... I think you are bang on the money, there. Perhaps it is.

"Have I made a Rod for my own back"?

Well You said it!

Time to stop worrying about their "Face" which is a nonsense idea anyway,which suits them,and now it's time to think about yourself. I'm beginning to agree. No more "Mr Nice Guy" or still "Mr Nice Guy" but no more "Walking ATM".

Whatever you do for them,in most cases will never be enough, Ain't that the truth. Have noticed that their initial glow of good-feeling appears to dwindle in direct proportion to how much of the gift is left.

so stop worrying and have a good time!

You know, a few posts ago I was questioning my wisdom in posting this question at all. No-one wants to appear a fool and especially if such an expose is brought about from one's own words. But now, I'm quite pleased.

I've already given consideration to the levels of this trips "gifts" and budgeted for them.

Since reading some of the valuable replies, suggestions and comments to this query, I've decided to put a twist on my giving.

Relay the foundations.

On arrival, I'm not going to automatically feed the birds but am going to let the dust settle for a few days or even a week or so. Depending on my subsequent "welcome" (or lack of it) I'll gift (or not) accordingly.

This should serve a number of purposes.

1) I'll discover whether it is me or my cash that is respected.

2) I'll have relaid the foundations and taken away any automatic expectations on the part of the family.

3) I'll only be providing (or not) a gift where it is, IMO, merited.

4) I will end up the richer - either wisdom or cash (maybe both).

As said, I am now happy to have presented this situation and am grateful for the input thus far provided.:thumbsup:

Edited May 28, 2011 by CaptainFantastic

[ozzieovaseas]

I'm bewildered by the OP - is it for real or a joke - visions of this extended family sitting with their hands out, like baby birds in the nest with their beaks open.

I too have a Thai family; but they don't 'have me'

I have never made, or been asked to make, any specific gifts to any family members apart from a couple of occasions, at my partner's wedding when we gave 5000 of our money to the couple as a gift; I'd happily have given more but was told 5k was the agreed amount for the other brothers/sisters; second was for my partner's niece starting uni and we gave her 2k this month for no particular reason, just a 'good luck'.

We travel often and will buy something small for her mother and nieces/nephews - silk scarf/t-shirts.

Re the 'face' issue, think it works both ways, as with my 'give them 10k for the wedding' suggestion there can be a face problem if my partner is seen to be 'showing off/better than the others' - the family is not by any means 'hard-up' all the siblings have good jobs, and to simply give money to the mother might be seen as an insult.

Now that is a funny picture

Actually to be fair, it doesnt sound like the family were originally waiting or expecting this, rather the OP has set the precedent by throwing his dosh around willy-nilly. Well, I was guided by my GF on my first trip (which was xmas and it was sort of given at a time when we Westerners do tend to exchange gifts). As they are a relatively poor family, I have repeated the gift on each subsequent visit, is all.

Maybe the analogy of a flock of skwarking seagulls in a feeding frenzy might be more accurate...and it is all the Ops making, since he has thrown them a kings banquet of 5 star fish and chips An analogy that hasn't been lost on myself, on occasion.

So,why did you feel the need to do that in the first place? As stated a gift was suggested by my GF and I asked some guys I know who have Thai GF's or wives and with the odd exception, the majority seemed to confirm that they, too, gave cash gifts if the family were "poor". I was initially concerned that offering a financial gift might be seen as an insult, but (surprise, surprise) if poor people are insulted - they hide it very well.

Im just interested, you just mentioned the timeframe of 2 years, so how long did you know these people when you first started this father farang christmas getup? Two years since I've been back. Have been visiting for 10 years.

Actually i find this a little hard to swallow. I do hope you are just a kind hearted guy and not trolling, but i fear you will get a right trouncing on this thread Maybe right but its only words and I can take it. There will be the usual wholly predictable "nasties" from those with nothing better to do and not the type of people I would mix with, anyway, so bring it on.

At the end of the day, all I've spent is a few kBaht. In the grand scheme of things, there are guys on this board and elsewhere that buy entire tracts of land and even businesses for their Thai "relatives" so I don't feel too hard done by.

Am interested to hear if I'm the only one that has made a bed for himself of this nature. I'm guessing not. But few may have the gonads to 'fess up to it.

Any suggestions, from those in the know - who may have had (or be aware of) similar experiences, still gratefully received.

Yes mate, im sure there are more than a few, just the depth of the generosity that varies.

Its just such a shame that this sort of generosity often gets shamelessly exploited. Im not saying it will happen in this case though. From a few of my own experiences on previous trips i've pretty much learnt that sometimes its best not to start the habit, as it all to often gets way out of hand.

Gratitude seems to be lost on the greediness of certain folks and once you start it will be expected all the time. Sad but true

When the time comes that you do have to tighten the belt, little thought or thanks will be offered for gestures in the past..most likely you will get branded all sorts of colourful thai titles for your trouble

And that is where resentments can start, since in our western way of thinking we tend to expect "thanks" or shows of appreciation for these things, whereas its not considered a big deal for thais. Maybe its just a cultural differance that to show appreciation is not so important.

My observations are that if you give a little here and there in unexpected ways it is often more appreciated.

One rule i set for myself is: never give away to much when it is NOT asked for...if you are hanging around for any period of time you will need to save your money for when it is requested

And yes,dont worry, i have had my day in the sun as the knight in shining armour...and in the end...well lets just say...i wish i could say i only got sunburnt

[ozzieovaseas]

Just a little more to add OP, since i realise i havent really added any worthwile suggestions or anything much positive.

I was just thinking if i was in this position i would not even mention the issue. No need to say sorry or explain anything or even bring up the subject of your not being able to be so generous this time around. This tends to be the Thai way, just to pretend the previous stuff never happened and no-one looses face.

I would go meet the family and greet them with big smiles, not even give off the slight indication that you are worried about any of this and the issue will probably disapear by itself.

To be fair to the better nature of Thais i am sure if you put on a happy face and carry on, no-one will even think about what happened before. Certainly if they have'nt seen you for longer periods of time i would doubt whether they would be making huge demands.

They can be a bit naughty at times but im sure they havent all got 666 tatooed to their foreheads

[CaptainFantastic]

Just a little more to add OP, since i realise i havent really added any worthwile suggestions or anything much positive.

I was just thinking if i was in this position i would not even mention the issue. No need to say sorry or explain anything or even bring up the subject of your not being able to be so generous this time around. This tends to be the Thai way, just to pretend the previous stuff never happened and no-one looses face.

I would go meet the family and greet them with big smiles, not even give off the slight indication that you are worried about any of this and the issue will probably disapear by itself.

To be fair to the better nature of Thais i am sure if you put on a happy face and carry on, no-one will even think about what happened before. Certainly if they have'nt seen you for longer periods of time i would doubt whether they would be making huge demands.

They can be a bit naughty at times but im sure they havent all got 666 tatooed to their foreheads

Yer.

I know what you mean.

I'm already feeling uncomfortable about not throwing cash in their direction within the hour of arriving, as has usually been the case.

It's sure gonna be an awkward few hours (even days) to say the least until it finally dawns on them, this time.

Seems I've fallen into a classic error here, through my ignorance and wish to help out and be a nice guy all at the same time.

Only reaping that which I've sowed, I guess.

We always stay in the family home when we're over there but, if I start feeling anywhere near uncomfortable, I'll simply deposit me and my rucksack into a local hostelry, unannounced.

Thanks for the input :jap:

Edited May 28, 2011 by CaptainFantastic

[hehehoho]

you owe them nothing.

Yup.

[Cobalt60]

Why not take a couple of bottles of single malt, they can see what real whisky tastes like instead of that bloody firewater they drink and it will make them forget everything, well until the next morning anyway

[sarahsbloke]

1) I'll discover whether it is me or my cash that is respected.

It's always the cash, no need to wait to discover that.

PS

You haven't revealed your age and her age, if you're in the mood to give us all a laugh.

(If you are of similar ages we will think you daft, if a 20+ year age gap we will think money well spent)

Edited May 28, 2011 by sarahsbloke

[CaptainFantastic]

Why not take a couple of bottles of single malt, they can see what real whisky tastes like instead of that bloody firewater they drink and it will make them forget everything, well until the next morning anyway

Tried that first time I went.

I was told they liked whisky so I bought a 12 year old Irish and a 20 year old scotch in Dubai en-route - not cheap even in Duty-Free.

They hated it and stuck to their Thai stuff and I ended up drinking the bulk of it myself throughout my stay.

What's the phrase "Pearls before..........>"?

[hehehoho]

Why not take a couple of bottles of single malt, they can see what real whisky tastes like

They'd probably put a sachet of ketchup in each one.

[MikeyIdea]

OP, good question you posted and you have already answered, you are rigth too

Thai husbands are expect to provide some help to their wives family when they visit and they have the same problem as you do when the same thing that has happened to you happen to them... Shit happens, not only to westerners

In a nice way, prepare them for that times are tough and that you cannot help them the way you have in the past this time. Let the wife tell them and since she would be shy to tell them (and I give it 50% that she won't tell them even if you ask her to), make sure that she understands that you only want well by letting them understand the situation beforehand

You should still give the wifes father and mother (no problems skipping all the others). If money is tough, then a thousand bath each will do. It's the gesture that matters

[CaptainFantastic]

OP, good question you posted and you have already answered, you are rigth too

Thai husbands are expect to provide some help to their wives family when they visit and they have the same problem as you do when the same thing that has happened to you happen to them... Shit happens, not only to westerners

In a nice way, prepare them for that times are tough and that you cannot help them the way you have in the past this time. Let the wife tell them and since she would be shy to tell them (and I give it 50% that she won't tell them even if you ask her to), make sure that she understands that you only want well by letting them understand the situation beforehand

You should still give the wifes father and mother (no problems skipping all the others). If money is tough, then a thousand bath each will do. It's the gesture that matters

Thanks for that input.

Am I correct in guessing that you are Thai?

If so, it is a double welcome reply.

If not, it is still a welcome reply.

Thanks again.

It is a very awkward situation else I would not have asked the original question.

:jap:

Edited May 31, 2011 by CaptainFantastic

[MikeyIdea]

Hi

I am not Thai but I have spent 20 years here and I live Thai and speak more Thai than English since over 10 years back. Wife can't speak any English either...

Westerners are so good at looking for bad intentions in everything. Westerners often go to paradise beaches looking for the garbage in the corners but it may not be bad intention behind it being there, OK? Thais do not normally look for bad intentions so most of them will be perfectly OK with having the fact shortly and politely communicated. One short and polite communication beforehand and one after arrived and settled down is fine. The wife is by far the best one to tell them

It would be bad of the relatives to show if they are not happy with the change and it is a sign to you that they quietly should get less respect from you in the future

Mutual respect is the key

Good Luck

Edited June 1, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[tassini]

If it were me I would not tell them anything about your current financial position, what business is it of theirs? Should they treat you with a lack of respect due to you not dishing out charitable donations you will have learnt all you need to know about these people. Too many people here leave their brain at home when arriving in Thailand. Local custom they will say, blah blah blah, well that's their custom not yours. The very fact that you need to ask for advice on this matter on a public forum is worrying. Grow some balls!

I quickly learnt that dishing out loans, gifts etc is a road to ruin unless you are going to do it for the rest of your days.

Tas

[CaptainFantastic]

If it were me I would not tell them anything about your current financial position, what business is it of theirs? Should they treat you with a lack of respect due to you not dishing out charitable donations you will have learnt all you need to know about these people. Too many people here leave their brain at home when arriving in Thailand. Local custom they will say, blah blah blah, well that's their custom not yours. The very fact that you need to ask for advice on this matter on a public forum is worrying. Grow some balls!

I quickly learnt that dishing out loans, gifts etc is a road to ruin unless you are going to do it for the rest of your days.

Tas

Point taken.

You are, of course, correct but as I've never done this before (considered not offering up a "gift" on arrival), I simply wanted to ensure that I wasn't dropping a huge bawlock.

I well remember when we were kids and would eagerly await the return of our older siblings or other close family members from their holidays, or for the occasional visits from those living abroad. The reason?........we had become accustomed to their bringing us a gift and we could often barely contain ourselves through the customary greetings. All we wanted to see was that suitcase being opened in order that we could get our gift, say "thank you" and leave the grown-ups to their boring chattering and "catching-up".

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I've helped to instill that very same expectation in the minds of my GF's family and it's a hard habit to break.

Thanks for offering up your point of view. It's appreciated.

[sinbin]

CaptainFantastic, you want your arse kicked for being a buffoon. Give them nothing, unless they've earned it. Just being family members doesn't qualify. I can't believe you're so gullible. As someone said 'get some balls'. Secondly get away from her family. God, how some farangs behave here is unbelievable.

[MikeyIdea]

Too much money reduce respect better and faster than too little money

I do not accept that we should not respect each others culture and tradition and local customs though

The problem is rather how should someone who doesn't know local custom know what's appropriate?

Most westerners are way too generous, some don't deserve what they have

Edited June 1, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[sinbin]

I well remember when we were kids and would eagerly await the return of our older siblings or other close family members from their holidays, or for the occasional visits from those living abroad. The reason?........we had become accustomed to their bringing us a gift and we could often barely contain ourselves through the customary greetings. All we wanted to see was that suitcase being opened in order that we could get our gift, say "thank you"

Her parents ain't kids. If they hold it against you because you haven't brought them a present then get well away from them. What will/would they be like when you can't pay for a new tractor or the likes. Edited June 1, 2011 by sinbin

[CaptainFantastic]

CaptainFantastic, you want your arse kicked for being a buffoon. Give them nothing, unless they've earned it. Just being family members doesn't qualify. I can't believe you're so gullible. As someone said 'get some balls'. Secondly get away from her family. God, how some farangs behave here is unbelievable.

Can't argue with that. I probably do need my arsed kicked - and that's exactly what is happening, here, courtesy of guys like yourself who gave a $h1t enough to reply.

The same guy who suggested I "grow some balls" also said that the most concerning aspect of this thread was that I was making it at all.

And he was correct in that, too.

I guess I've been half-thinking what you are, for the most part all, saying but have been spending too many years being a "nice-guy". I guess I asked it because I subconsciously wanted to get my arse kicked in order to hopefully put me back on the straight and narrow.

So thanks for being so blunt. It's appreciated.

Too much money reduce respect better and faster than too little money

I do not accept that we should not respect each others culture and tradition and local customs though

The problem is rather how should someone who doesn't know local custom know what's appropriate?

Most westerners are way too generous, some don't deserve what they have

Here's the paradox. I have been probably trying for too long to blend in with the Thai "culture" but have gradually come to realise that what I've been learning (being taught) isn't Thai "culture" at all. It's probably more akin to being a Thai's "sucker".

I well remember when we were kids and would eagerly await the return of our older siblings or other close family members from their holidays, or for the occasional visits from those living abroad. The reason?........we had become accustomed to their bringing us a gift and we could often barely contain ourselves through the customary greetings. All we wanted to see was that suitcase being opened in order that we could get our gift, say "thank you"

Her parents ain't kids. If they hold it against you because you haven't brought them a present then get well away from them. What will/would they be like when you can't pay for a new tractor or the likes.

Point taken and agreed with.

About time I grew me some balls.