A Farang Living In Thailand

[jdinasia]

...airing negative views from time to time.

From "time to time".

exactly UG ... who doesn't air negative views from time-to time? Then there are the posters that air extremely skewed bigoted views every time ......

[F1fanatic]

I know the Thai family I help out probably care more about the money than my friendship, but it is the children I want to help. I couldn't give a fig about the adults. Children are pretty open. They either like you or they don't. I would say that when a 13 year old boy and his 11 year old sister CHOOSE to hold me by the hand when we go for a walk then they ARE showing affection.

I would encourage you to be careful.

Put it this way -- why would a 70 year-old man get pleasure from paying money to have his hand held by an eleven year-old girl who is not his daughter?

Be careful, Ian.

After teaching school for a long time in Thailand I know what Ian is talking about. When kids like you it is genuine affection not motivated by any hidden agendas. I still carry a key chain a little person bought me. The child was poor with little money but wanted to give me a present.

I was at Lotus a week ago when three little urchins ran up to me smiling and laughing, their parents looking on in stunned silence at the audacity of the children with the old Farang. The store clerks smiled as they watched. It is a nice thing and gave me a warm feeling in my heart.

I was a good teacher and it is nice to feel accepted by students and parents.

A good teacher feels accepted, respected and loved and those are all good feelings.

The way to a Thais heart is through his kids. It is not easy to gain the respect of a child. It takes a lot of work. I spent three years at a government school with no AC and few supplies or extras. It was hard hot and demanding work for not much money. The reward is in the smiles of the students.

I agree too that Ian is doing his best to help a family and, the young children love all the treats.

Unfortunately I have little doubt that the family will use this to explain to the kids (as they get older) that they need a farang to give them money...

The cycle continues .

[F1fanatic]

...airing negative views from time to time.

From "time to time".

exactly UG ... who doesn't air negative views from time-to time? Then there are the posters that air extremely skewed bigoted views every time ......

Of course you're right....

Unfortunately the bit you miss is the times I point out that I actually love living here for various reasons.

Those reasons have nothing to do with the stereotypical farang here - and THAT'S what you really don't like.

[kerryk]

It depends. Do you think Ian is teaching them how to fish or giving them the fish?

[jdinasia]

...airing negative views from time to time.

From "time to time".

exactly UG ... who doesn't air negative views from time-to time? Then there are the posters that air extremely skewed bigoted views every time ......

Of course you're right....

Unfortunately the bit you miss is the times I point out that I actually love living here for various reasons.

Those reasons have nothing to do with the stereotypical farang here - and THAT'S what you really don't like.

Nope--- it is simply your attitude towards Thais and Thai/Farang couples that I don't like. Nothing more.

(BTW -- I try not to stereotype the farang here either

Edited June 19, 2011 by jdinasia

[F1fanatic]

I'm only being honest about reality here.

It would be nice to agree to disagree.

[IanForbes]

It depends. Do you think Ian is teaching them how to fish or giving them the fish?

Now that you've asked...

[IanForbes]

I hear you, Ian. I really hear you.

I'm just saying be careful.

Do you think the family of that eleven year-old girl genuinely care about you?

Let's imagine I'm a Thai guy. Let's imagine I'm part of that family. Let's imagine I want a new pick-up truck.

Easy to to get, isn't it? I just tell that eleven year-old girl to go to the police and tell the truth about that disgusting perverted farang.

Sure, it's all lies. The girl knows it's a lie but she's doing it for her family. And compared to her family, you are zero. The family know it's lies but they want the green. The police know it's lies but they too want the green.

And let's be honest -- who's gonna believe the story of a self-confessed 70 year-old sex tourist who openly admits that he enjoys holding the hand of an 11 year-old girl.

Be careful, dude.

You actually have a point. I know similar scams done in the Philippines and I was warned about not being too friendly with certain people. The Philippines is full of scams and the police are all involved in them. It's one reason why I seldom go back there. I know there are risks, but that's not going to stop me from helping the children get a good education in a better school. But, maybe I have a little more faith in mankind than you and don't think everyone is a crook or a scammer. Life is a risk worth taking. The Thai children have enriched my life just as I've enriched theirs. I'm not totally innocent in judging people. The scenario you suggested could be perpetrated on anyone at any time just by being in Thailand.

[F1fanatic]

I hear you, Ian. I really hear you.

I'm just saying be careful.

Do you think the family of that eleven year-old girl genuinely care about you?

Let's imagine I'm a Thai guy. Let's imagine I'm part of that family. Let's imagine I want a new pick-up truck.

Easy to to get, isn't it? I just tell that eleven year-old girl to go to the police and tell the truth about that disgusting perverted farang.

Sure, it's all lies. The girl knows it's a lie but she's doing it for her family. And compared to her family, you are zero. The family know it's lies but they want the green. The police know it's lies but they too want the green.

And let's be honest -- who's gonna believe the story of a self-confessed 70 year-old sex tourist who openly admits that he enjoys holding the hand of an 11 year-old girl.

Be careful, dude.

You actually have a point. I know similar scams done in the Philippines and I was warned about not being too friendly with certain people. The Philippines is full of scams and the police are all involved in them. It's one reason why I seldom go back there. I know there are risks, but that's not going to stop me from helping the children get a good education in a better school. But, maybe I have a little more faith in mankind than you and don't think everyone is a crook or a scammer. Life is a risk worth taking. The Thai children have enriched my life just as I've enriched theirs. I'm not totally innocent in judging people. The scenario you suggested could be perpetrated on anyone at any time just by being in Thailand.

I agree Ian that the 'less scrupulous' in the Phillipines are far worse (or at least more obvious) than people generally here.

[jdinasia]

I'm only being honest about reality here.

It would be nice to agree to disagree.

No, you are not being honest about reality here. You are simply tarring all Thais and their farang spouses with the same brush. Your stereotypes have some truth in them but are not valid over the broad spectrum of people. You have directly called the wives of farang here in Thailand "hookers" and that is simply wrong to do. Your personal experiences color your world and deny the reality that many people here have Thai/Farang relationships that do not match your narrow and bigoted viewpoint.

It borders on _______ (fill in your own adjective) to think that all Thais are bad --- or in this thread your statement only applies to Thais from Isaan.

There are those of us that do, in fact, have close Thai friends ("True friends") and great loving Thai/Farang relationships but you have the audacity to call our spouses hookers. Honestly, anyone making any similar statement about women from the West (similar in saying that they are all bad in some significant way) would not last here long.

BTW --- I have lived in Phuket as well and developed 3 lasting and strong friendships from there. Other than in Patong (I knew better than to live there, doesn't match my personal lifestyle) the island is a great mix of Thai people from all over the country.

So ... when I see you stereotyping Thais with that same narrow viewpoint, I'll call you on it. It would probably make more sense to put you in ignore or to report the posts but your posts need to be counterweighted by what is actually reality in Thailand. That the people here (both farang and Thai) are diverse and don't neatly fit into bigoted pigeonholes.

[F1fanatic]

I'm only being honest about reality here.

It would be nice to agree to disagree.

No, you are not being honest about reality here. You are simply tarring all Thais and their farang spouses with the same brush. Your stereotypes have some truth in them but are not valid over the broad spectrum of people. You have directly called the wives of farang here in Thailand "hookers" and that is simply wrong to do. Your personal experiences color your world and deny the reality that many people here have Thai/Farang relationships that do not match your narrow and bigoted viewpoint.

It borders on _______ (fill in your own adjective) to think that all Thais are bad --- or in this thread your statement only applies to Thais from Isaan.

There are those of us that do, in fact, have close Thai friends ("True friends") and great loving Thai/Farang relationships but you have the audacity to call our spouses hookers. Honestly, anyone making any similar statement about women from the West (similar in saying that they are all bad in some significant way) would not last here long.

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4421484

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4289878

BTW --- I have lived in Phuket as well and developed 3 lasting and strong friendships from there. Other than in Patong (I knew better than to live there, doesn't match my personal lifestyle) the island is a great mix of Thai people from all over the country.

So ... when I see you stereotyping Thais with that same narrow viewpoint, I'll call you on it. It would probably make more sense to put you in ignore or to report the posts but your posts need to be counterweighted by what is actually reality in Thailand. That the people here (both farang and Thai) are diverse and don't neatly fit into bigoted pigeonholes.

Quite. We have different 'realities' about life here. That is why I said it would be nice to agree to disagree.

I'm genuinely sorry that you find my posts offensive, but from my POV I'm just stating my experiences.

But feel free to 'report' my posts anytime when you find them offensive or against the rules.

[billd766]

I know the Thai family I help out probably care more about the money than my friendship, but it is the children I want to help. I couldn't give a fig about the adults. Children are pretty open. They either like you or they don't. I would say that when a 13 year old boy and his 11 year old sister CHOOSE to hold me by the hand when we go for a walk then they ARE showing affection.

I would encourage you to be careful.

Put it this way -- why would a 70 year-old man get pleasure from paying money to have his hand held by an eleven year-old girl who is not his daughter?

Be careful, Ian.

For the same reason I held the hand of my old children when they were small and now hold the hand of my grand kids when we go for a walk. It's the Thai kids that take my hand, not me taking their hand. I"m probably the only father figure they've ever had. I really don't give a shit about all the self righteous bigots who only can see the worst in everything. I've looked after these children since they were 4 and 5 years old and I've taken a positive part in their lives. And, the people who look for pedophiles under every rock are perverts. If people can't see the difference then it is them that have twisted minds. I get pleasure out of seeing children having fun and growing up with opportunities they might not have had without my help. All I was pointing out is being accepted by Thais... which IS the point of discussion on this topic. Children don't fake their affection because they have no reason to do so. They either like you or they don't. Maybe when I'm dead and gone they will remember the Canadian that provided them with a better education than what they might have had. Hopefully, I'll live long enough to see them become adults and get reasonable jobs.

I agree with you 100% Ian.

A few years ago i used to walk along Sukhumvit around the Queen Sirikit gardens and quite often my friends daughter who was about 8 at the time would walk with me holding my hand.

Oddly enough the worst looks and stares of hatred came from farangs walking with their families than from Thais.

And for andrewbkk, her mother had been married to a farang who died of a heart attack while working offshore and yes I am still friends with the Thai family and they are building a house next door to us. I still see the girl and her older sister when they come and stay with their mother.

Unfortunately the very few pedophiles have poisoned the minds of too many people who when they see someone like Ian or me or many others with young children immediately jump to the wrong conclusion.

I also hold my 6 year old sons hand in public and the 5 year old daughter of another friend, so andrew should I be very careful also?

[jdinasia]

Quite. We have different 'realities' about life here. That is why I said it would be nice to agree to disagree.

I'm genuinely sorry that you find my posts offensive, but from my POV I'm just stating my experiences.

But feel free to 'report' my posts anytime when you find them offensive or against the rules.

Your experiences are valid. They are not, however, representative of anyone but you. The exact same can be said about my experiences ... they represent my life in Thailand. That does not excuse you calling all the wives of other Westerners in Thailand "hookers". Any more than it would excuse a Western man that had been taken for a ride by a Western woman in a divorce to refer to all Western women in a negative way.

[Chonburiram]

I'm only being honest about reality here.

It would be nice to agree to disagree.

No, you are not being honest about reality here. You are simply tarring all Thais and their farang spouses with the same brush. Your stereotypes have some truth in them but are not valid over the broad spectrum of people. You have directly called the wives of farang here in Thailand "hookers" and that is simply wrong to do. Your personal experiences color your world and deny the reality that many people here have Thai/Farang relationships that do not match your narrow and bigoted viewpoint.

It borders on _______ (fill in your own adjective) to think that all Thais are bad --- or in this thread your statement only applies to Thais from Isaan.

There are those of us that do, in fact, have close Thai friends ("True friends") and great loving Thai/Farang relationships but you have the audacity to call our spouses hookers. Honestly, anyone making any similar statement about women from the West (similar in saying that they are all bad in some significant way) would not last here long.

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4421484

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4289878

BTW --- I have lived in Phuket as well and developed 3 lasting and strong friendships from there. Other than in Patong (I knew better than to live there, doesn't match my personal lifestyle) the island is a great mix of Thai people from all over the country.

So ... when I see you stereotyping Thais with that same narrow viewpoint, I'll call you on it. It would probably make more sense to put you in ignore or to report the posts but your posts need to be counterweighted by what is actually reality in Thailand. That the people here (both farang and Thai) are diverse and don't neatly fit into bigoted pigeonholes.

jdinasia, put " F1fanatic " on ignore, she is one of the shitstirring, easy to spot, longtimetrolls here on TV, I just wonder why he can survive for so long ...

[andrewbkk]

Unfortunately the very few pedophiles have poisoned the minds of too many people who when they see someone like Ian or me or many others with young children immediately jump to the wrong conclusion.

I also hold my 6 year old sons hand in public and the 5 year old daughter of another friend, so andrew should I be very careful also?

I too have a six year-old son. He's half-English, half Yasothon. It has never once occurred to me that I might receive disparaging looks when I hold his hand in public. I guess this is because it's so obvious that he and I are family. I guess it's also because I'm so proud of him.

But I would never wish to be seen holding in public the hand of a child who was not my own.

This is not because I worry about what others might think. It's because I think there is something intrinsically wrong with the idea of an adult man who gets pleasure from holding the hands of young children who are not his.

Edited June 19, 2011 by andrewbkk

[Richard4849]

"Intrinsically wrong"? No.

Have you ever been to Moo Baan Dek or any of the many orphanages or similar places out there? The kids there are starved for affection and human contact. All they want to do is hold your hand.

There is nothing dirty about holding a child's hand!

[Ulysses G.]

This is not because I worry about what others might think. It's because I think there is something intrinsically wrong with the idea of an adult man who gets pleasure from holding the hands of young children who are not his.

I do not agree with you on that. There are plenty of men and women who enjoy being around children without any ill intent.

It is a shame that we have to be so paranoid about affectionate adults, but, unfortunately, it seems that it is necessary to be very wary.

[andrewbkk]

"Intrinsically wrong"? No.

Have you ever been to Moo Baan Dek or any of the many orphanages or similar places out there? The kids there are starved for affection and human contact. All they want to do is hold your hand.

There is nothing dirty about holding a child's hand!

Good post. I went to Rajawadee Orphan House in Tivanon Road (Nonthaburi) last weekend. I have a photo of me holding the shoulders of a ten year-old girl whose growth is stunted more than you can possibly imagine.

But this is very different to admitting openly that I get pleasure from taking little girls for a walk in the park.

[OlafStapleton]

This is not because I worry about what others might think. It's because I think there is something intrinsically wrong with the idea of an adult man who gets pleasure from holding the hands of young children who are not his.

One in Eight men around the world hold hands with children that are not biologically related.

According to statistics in Europe.

I hold hands with my 12 year old stepdaughter all the time, and walk along with our arms around each other, and drive around on m/c.

I also getting cuddles often at home and when out.

Why does many from the west want to think bad things about men and children?

Would you think bad things about woman and children?

[Richard4849]

"Intrinsically wrong"? No.

Have you ever been to Moo Baan Dek or any of the many orphanages or similar places out there? The kids there are starved for affection and human contact. All they want to do is hold your hand.

There is nothing dirty about holding a child's hand!

Good post. I went to Rajawadee Orphan House in Tivanon Road (Nonthaburi) last weekend. I have a photo of me holding the shoulders of a ten year-old girl whose growth is stunted more than you can possibly imagine.

But this is very different to admitting openly that I get pleasure from taking little girls for a walk in the park.

Not SEXUAL pleasure. Seriously, you are way out of line.

[jdinasia]

"Intrinsically wrong"? No.

Have you ever been to Moo Baan Dek or any of the many orphanages or similar places out there? The kids there are starved for affection and human contact. All they want to do is hold your hand.

There is nothing dirty about holding a child's hand!

Good post. I went to Rajawadee Orphan House in Tivanon Road (Nonthaburi) last weekend. I have a photo of me holding the shoulders of a ten year-old girl whose growth is stunted more than you can possibly imagine.

But this is very different to admitting openly that I get pleasure from taking little girls for a walk in the park.

If you see an issue with a walk in the park ........ gads!

[Richard4849]

He gets pleasure -- non-sexual pleasure -- from giving the child pleasure.

You need to get your head out of the gutter. Take a poll if you want, but I guarantee the "overwhelming majority" of people will see nothing wrong with holding a child's hand.

[metisdead]

A rather defammatory post has been removed. If you firmly believe the accusation, I am sure you can find the proper authorities to contact to pursue the allegations.

[IanForbes]

"Intrinsically wrong"? No.

Have you ever been to Moo Baan Dek or any of the many orphanages or similar places out there? The kids there are starved for affection and human contact. All they want to do is hold your hand.

There is nothing dirty about holding a child's hand!

But this is very different to admitting openly that I get pleasure from taking little girls for a walk in the park.

Maybe you missed where I wrote that it is the children who grab my hand. It's not me grabbing their hands. I only hold the hands of children when they are in a potentially dangerous situation... like crossing a street. I don't get pleasure out of holding anyone's hand, but I DO get pleasure when they WANT to hold my hand. Holding hands is a sign of affection. I see adult Thai teenagers holding hands all the time, and it happens more in Thailand than it does in North America where everyone is so paranoid over EVERYTHING. Teenagers in Thailand ARE different than teenagers in North America. For the most part, Thai children and young adults are FAR more polite than North American teenagers. I can't speak for England because I don't live there.

[SteeleJoe]

I live a normal life here. I have a family, work Monday thru Friday and have weekends off. Very humdrum really, but I am satisfied. Do I really feel part of it here in Thailand? Not really, even after 28 years here and being able to speak Thai, but it does not bother me much. I am as much "part of it" as I am ever going to be and am happy with that. Would I want to go back to the UK? No, I like my life here. Could I go back and live in the UK now even if I wanted to? Not, really. I am pushing 50 and it would be difficult to get work and pretty much start from scratch. My wife of 20 plus years would leave me if I went back (now there's an idea!! ). She has been to the UK and dislikes it intensely (I have no problems with that as she is free to have her own opinions). My son, likewise, has no intention of going to live in the UK. So basically, my life is here and I will make the best of it I can here. FWIW, I wouldn't fit in in the UK either. I have spent more than half my life in Thailand and am out of touch with UK life.

I mix with all levels of Thais, without restrictions (something I had never thought about before, but jdinasia so astutely pointed this out in an earlier post) and generally have a good life. Do I like the country? Certainly, but at the same time there are things I dislike too, and some I even hate with a vengeance. However, I do not get on a soap box to expound on those things either as not everyone feels the same. As said by others, a lot of the moaners, whiners, whingers, etc. would be the same no matter where they are, while others are like that because they are frustrated by the language barrier and perhaps do not really know what is going on. And then there are those who are just plain nasty, full-of-themselves people who think because they are spending money they can treat others worse than a stray dog. If they treated people the same way in their home countries, they would find themselves flat on their backs counting stars in no time. Do they give the rest of us a bad namethough? Not necessarily. I no longer move in the circles where I come across such people and the Thais I come into contact with are likewise far from the circles of the nasty few. The vast majority of Thais probably never come into contact with such riffraff either, just those in tourist areas. As a result, when visiting tourist areas we may come across locals who treat us poorly because of their own experience with foriegn thugs, but that could hardly be considered a reflection of the feelings of the population as a whole. In fact, the vast majority of Thais don't even think of us at all, and why should they, we have no daily interaction with them and, for the most part, no impact on their daily lives. Apologies to those who think they are the center of the universe , but we just do not exist as a subject of interest for most locals.

Thailand is what you make of it. It can be heaven or hell or something in between, but this depends on you and you alone. Stop blaming others.

Wow.

Change "UK" to "US" and almost every single word of that post could have been written by me (though perhaps not as well).

[phutoie2]

He is American, no educated Brit would spell 'centre' the way he has!.

[SteeleJoe]

"Intrinsically wrong"? No.

Have you ever been to Moo Baan Dek or any of the many orphanages or similar places out there? The kids there are starved for affection and human contact. All they want to do is hold your hand.

There is nothing dirty about holding a child's hand!

Good post. I went to Rajawadee Orphan House in Tivanon Road (Nonthaburi) last weekend. I have a photo of me holding the shoulders of a ten year-old girl whose growth is stunted more than you can possibly imagine.

But this is very different to admitting openly that I get pleasure from taking little girls for a walk in the park.

I openly admit that I get pleasure from a small child -- boy or girl -- taking my hand or showing affection to and/or trust in me. Always have and of course even more so with my own children.

Clearly I am scum and should be locked up -- or worse.

[Beetlejuice]

I know the Thai family I help out probably care more about the money than my friendship, but it is the children I want to help. I couldn't give a fig about the adults. Children are pretty open. They either like you or they don't. I would say that when a 13 year old boy and his 11 year old sister CHOOSE to hold me by the hand when we go for a walk then they ARE showing affection.

I would encourage you to be careful.

Put it this way -- why would a 70 year-old man get pleasure from paying money to have his hand held by an eleven year-old girl who is not his daughter?

Be careful, Ian.

You know what Ian? andrewbkk is dead right.

Sometimes some of the kids in my area visit our house because their parents are quite poor and are not able to afford computers for them.

So I allow them into our home and the use of my spare computer.

But when these kids turn up on my doorstep I always without fail have the girlfriend or one of my kids present. I would never consider being home alone with any of these kids.

Strangely, it was the girlfriend who recommended I do this.

Lets face it, old farangs like us, 50s/70s, fit the stenotypes perfectly and we are easy targets for any evil unscrupulous bustards that decide to set us up. Even some Thai people I know have warned me to be careful if getting involved with other people's children.

I have a friend just like you Ian, he is 70, has a good heart like you, wouldn't harm a fly and loves to help deprived children, taking them on trips to the zoo and so on. And I have warned him many times also, but he doesn't listen.

I would hate to see you as part of the main news on the Thai visa news clippings, so as our andrewbkk has said; please take caution, that's all.

Edited June 20, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[IanForbes]

I'm not too worried about it, Beetlejuice. Any child that comes into my own room in Chiang Mai always does so with her mother. I don't mess with stranger's kids unless their mother is present, and then I only take photos to give to the family. Most Thais can't afford to have pictures printed and they always appreciate them. It's the same when I visit the hill tribes and take pictures. I always go back later and give the photos to the tribe elder or the school teacher to distribute. kids love to have pictures of themselves.

I have known the family in Kanchanaburi for 8 years and I am accepted by the whole family. It is highly unlikely that anything weird would happen at this point. I'm not a doddering old fool despite what some people on this forum think. Other than uncles, I am the only father figure the chilren have had since they were babies. The uncles are all nice Thai men and all are working at the sugar factory. The sisters are married and have good jobs. Actually, they are all more stable than the mother of the kids. I think the brothers and sisters wish I would marry their sister and take her off their hands. But, I've made it plain that that is never going to happen. And besides, I only visit them twice a year for about a week at a time. I just find it more enjoyable spending time with others rather than always traveling on my own. Once you've seen all the temples, and all the National Parks, and all the beaches, and hiked all the trails, it's the sharing with other people that brings the greatest joy. And, children and young people tend to show their enjoyment more than old folks.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I have known the family in Kanchanaburi for 8 years and I am accepted by the whole family. It is highly unlikely that anything weird would happen at this point. I'm not a doddering old fool despite what some people on this forum think. Other than uncles, I am the only father figure the chilren have had since they were babies. The uncles are all nice Thai men and all are working at the sugar factory. The sisters are married and have good jobs. Actually, they are all more stable than the mother of the kids. I think the brothers and sisters wish I would marry their sister and take her off their hands. But, I've made it plain that that is never going to happen. And besides, I only visit them twice a year for about a week at a time. I just find it more enjoyable spending time with others rather than always traveling on my own. Once you've seen all the temples, and all the National Parks, and all the beaches, and hiked all the trails, it's the sharing with other people that brings the greatest joy. And, children and young people tend to show their enjoyment more than old folks.

Great post. It would be a sad day when people feel inhibited to live life to the fullest and make a difference to other people only because of some stereotypes, or because some of the more negative forum members take issue with it. (Then turn off their computer, and go visit go go bars.. :/ )