Thai Immigration Tightens Requirements For Retirement Visa Extensions

[tropo]

Tropo - I believe it is you that should read the OP again.

The paragraph beginning "It has been reported..." which contains the bones of the so called "new" requirement, makes no mention of which, if any, nationalities are exempted from this "new" requirement.

The following paragraph simply refers to certain nationalities as being notable exceptions to those nationalities that this will make no real difference to, because they already have such proof. It does not say that some nationalities (e.g. Brits) are exemted from it.

The sub-heading states that proof of transfer into Thailand is required. This is not justified in the body of the post, but has been of concern to a lot of posters in this thread. Again there is no mention of which nationalities this does or does not apply to. Rawhod's post is definately relevant to this point.

It is a little unfortunate that the original poster has not seen fit to justify that statement or else amend or withdraw it. Examing bank books does not necessarily mean that they are seeking proof that the pensions are brought into Thailand every month. It might just be they want to make sure that applicants have sufficient funds here to support themselves.

I've read it plenty of times. Brits need not concern themselves. We need to read reports from Australian and US applicants.

[KimoMax]

Reports from local Thailand Visa Facilitators are hardly relevant.

These services are money making businesses.

Thai Immigration may be looking at their clientel a bit closer than individuls applying without the service assistance.

I previously posted that "the Thailand Embassy and All Consulatees in the U.S.A. REQUIRE Notarized Proof of Income or Money in Bank to meet Visa Requirements". Police and Doctor Ceritifications must also be Notarized.

This hardly suggests most American's do not have surfficiant funds as eluded to by some Rumor Mongers.

[jfchandler]

I previously posted that "the Thailand Embassy and All Consulatees in the U.S.A. REQUIRE Notarized Proof of Income or Money in Bank to meet Visa Requirements". Police and Doctor Ceritifications must also be Notarized.

This hardly suggests most American's do not have surfficiant funds as eluded to by some Rumor Mongers.

Just to be clear, the requirements you're referring to above involve applications for retirement visas at Thai consulates in foreign countries, or the U.S., in the example you use.

Those are separate and different than the requirements for extensions of stay based on retirement that are applied for inside Thailand from Thai Immigration. For example, for extensions of stay, no police or medical clearances are required at all. And no notarizations either, since there basically are no U.S. licensed notaries in Thailand.

[moe666]

Reports from local Thailand Visa Facilitators are hardly relevant.

These services are money making businesses.

Thai Immigration may be looking at their clientel a bit closer than individuls applying without the service assistance.

I previously posted that "the Thailand Embassy and All Consulatees in the U.S.A. REQUIRE Notarized Proof of Income or Money in Bank to meet Visa Requirements". Police and Doctor Ceritifications must also be Notarized.

This hardly suggests most American's do not have surfficiant funds as eluded to by some Rumor Mongers.

For the O-A visa. The Hon. Consulate in Portland asked me for a copy of my bankstatement when I applied for a Non-O visa last year, did not have to be notarized.

[KimoMax]

I previously posted that "the Thailand Embassy and All Consulatees in the U.S.A. REQUIRE Notarized Proof of Income or Money in Bank to meet Visa Requirements". Police and Doctor Ceritifications must also be Notarized.

This hardly suggests most American's do not have surfficiant funds as eluded to by some Rumor Mongers.

Just to be clear, the requirements you're referring to above involve applications for retirement visas at Thai consulates in foreign countries, or the U.S., in the example you use.

Those are separate and different than the requirements for extensions of stay based on retirement that are applied for inside Thailand from Thai Immigration. For example, for extensions of stay, no police or medical clearances are required at all. And no notarizations either, since there basically are no U.S. licensed notaries in Thailand.

Pensions Rarely Decrease or End, just the opposite. Money in the Bank can decrease.

Immigration can know easily where and when you obtained your Visa and all your Visa Extension history.

Most Americans do get their O-A Retirement Visas in the USA where proof of income or Money in Bank is required to be Notarised.

As stated by another poster, his Consulate did not ask for Notary of Bank. It is the Consulate Official's discretion. Had they asked for Notarisation, he would have had to go get it Notarised and come back. I always have mine notarised before turning up at Thai Consulates because it says on the Embassy required documents list to have certain documents notarised.

Many Thai Embassies and Consulates around the world also require some type of confirming documentation of bank or income for O-A Visas.

With all these hoops to jump thru, doubtful Americans are any less likely to have the required income or monies.

Any Income change requirement by Thai Immigration for requiring transfer of Funds into Thailand would include all Nationalities.

Edited June 13, 2011 by KimoMax

[moe666]

I previously posted that "the Thailand Embassy and All Consulatees in the U.S.A. REQUIRE Notarized Proof of Income or Money in Bank to meet Visa Requirements". Police and Doctor Ceritifications must also be Notarized.

This hardly suggests most American's do not have surfficiant funds as eluded to by some Rumor Mongers.

Just to be clear, the requirements you're referring to above involve applications for retirement visas at Thai consulates in foreign countries, or the U.S., in the example you use.

Those are separate and different than the requirements for extensions of stay based on retirement that are applied for inside Thailand from Thai Immigration. For example, for extensions of stay, no police or medical clearances are required at all. And no notarizations either, since there basically are no U.S. licensed notaries in Thailand.

Pensions Rarely Decrease or End, just the opposite. Money in the Bank can decrease.

Immigration can know easily where and when you obtained your Visa and all your Visa Extension history.

Most Americans do get their O-A Retirement Visas in the USA where proof of income or Money in Bank is required to be Notarised.

As stated by another poster, his Consulate did not ask for Notary of Bank. It is the Consulate Official's discretion. Had they asked for Notarisation, he would have had to go get it Notarised and come back. I always have mine notarised before turning up at Thai Consulates because it says on the Embassy required documents list to have certain documents notarised.

Many Thai Embassies and Consulates around the world also require some type of confirming documentation of bank or income for O-A Visas.

With all these hoops to jump thru, doubtful Americans are any less likely to have the required income or monies.

Any Income change requirement by Thai Immigration for requiring transfer of Funds into Thailand would include all Nationalities.

Sorry your off the mark here. The non-o visa was only for 3 months and the lady specifically told me to send her a copy of the bankstatement so she would know if I had the money for 3 months of cost. I then used this non-o visa to obtain my one year extension of stay for retirement. I obtained the non-o to visit friends.

To make a blanket statement that most Americans recieve a non-o-a visa is a bit of a stretch don't you think and if so what evidence do you base this on. Since the non-oa visa is applied for and issued thru a Thai Embassy it has nothing to do with immigration more than likely there computers do not talk to each other.

[jfchandler]

It's fine to talk about how the Thai consulates in the U.S. handle visa applications...

But what this thread is about is retirement-based extensions of stay issued in Thailand by Thai Immigration.

They're not the same thing, don't have the same application requirements, and are handled by entirely different parts of the Thai government.

[Tafia]

Monthly income figures stated in letters issued by the British Embassy at any rate are normally GROSS and might exceed the 65,000 THB minimum comfortably. However, even if a particular month's pension payment were transferred in full to Thailand, the NET amount ending up in a bank account here after tax has been deducted back home might well fall short of 65,000 THB. It seems arguable to me, therefore, that the OP is, in effect, saying that Immigration are now only interested in NET income figures - in which case I shall almost certainly be on a plane back to the UK mid-August in the event of the GBP's value against the THB plummeting further over the next few weeks.

I haven't waded my way all through this thread, so apologies if this point has already been raised.

You can always use the combination route...pension + cash in bank

[thaihome]

...Any one who knows much about investing, would know that money is safer and more productive when invested outside of Thailand.

.

[/size]

Over the past year or so, many professional investors disagree with what you seem to think is common knowledge, as there as been many billions of USD brought into Thailand to invest mainly in the SET or bond market. Much money has been made. Would seem you are one of those that missed out...

TH

[SurfRider]

.

"Over the past year or so, many professional investors disagree ... there as been many billions of USD brought into Thailand to invest mainly in the SET"

If you had only given us the benefit of your wisdom by posting this a couple of years ago, we'd all be rich . . .

The Thai Securities Market is very small by world standards and easily manipulated by some very wealthy families, as well as international hedge funds.

I was referring to safe solid investing in large well known companies that have a good track-record of paying consistent dividends-- not wild speculation in a small 3rd world country. There are much safer bets elsewhere. It's always easy to call a good shot after the fact.

.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

You can always use the combination route...pension + cash in bank

I think that is what somebody said ten years ago when the required amount was much less that what it is today. If in another ten years they double it, what will people do? Yes, some might be grandfathered in, but maybe they will get rid of that loophole. And even when grandfathered in it is easy to lose that status by moving in and out of different retirement categories (something that can and does happen for various reasons). Three issues about this burns me up: 1) it reflects an anti-foreigner (get the hell out because we don't want you here) mindset that is growing, 2) it reflects a a long-term immigration rule change trend that is not good for expat retirees (pushing people out and causing instability and insecurity), and 3) we (I am talking about Americans here) do not do the same thing to THEM. The last item really burns me up. Thais can immigrate to my country without having to show a monthly income that is ten times the average American income.....and we do not require them to deposit money in an American bank. I say tit for tat.

Edited June 13, 2011 by Awohalitsiktoli

[moe666]

Good luck for a Thai to even get a tourist visa to the States unless they have big money. Other than complaining about the system in Thailand do you have any thing positive to add.

[rgs2001uk]

The last item really burns me up. Thais can immigrate to my country without having to show a monthly income that is ten times the average American income.....and we do not require them to deposit money in an American bank. I say tit for tat.

Please provide further details on how my Thai wife can immigrate to America, would sure love to piggy back her.

I think most farang should count themselves lucky Thailand hasnt as yet introduced visa requierments on a tit for tat basis, eg, the UK, wonder how many Brits could pass the Thai equivalent of living in the UK test.

[Jingthing]

This thread seems to disintegrating into the same old, same old. Thai immigration is so liberal. Thai immigration is so harsh. Thais in my country get that. Thais can't even get into my country. Yada yada yada.

This thread is about something very specific and focused. Refer to the OP.

It's interesting that even the Sunbelt source in "clarifying" this was massively vague. He sounds as skeptical of his own announcement as most of us (including me). Don't believe grand announcements. Believe real life REPORTS starting from now from the possibly effected people. Most obviously, AMERICANS applying for retirement extensions in Bangkok using income method or combo method.

Was proof demanded to support embassy letter?

What kind of proof was accepted/demanded/rejected?

Was the Thai bank account examined for proof of pension import?

What rules were applied to determine if imported income was acceptable, including time frames?

Was a WARNING voiced to be prepared for next time (what said exactly) in lieu of strict enforcement now?

Again, relevant REPORTS please. That's all we really have to go on now.

Edited June 13, 2011 by Jingthing

[Maestro]

...I say tit for tat.

That's the spirit. You should do something about it, like write to the Secretary of State suggesting that the US government should make it as easy for Thai nationals to receive US visas and enter the USA as it is for US nationals to get visas for travel to Thailand, and don't forget to mention also visa-exempt entry with permission to stay for 30 days. No personal interview for the visa application; no additional forms to complete online at least 72 hours before travel; no fingerprinting on arrival; etc.

[SantiSuk]

For goodness sake don't wind Jingthing up any more than he is already. He'll be thru the 30,000 postings barrier before this thread is thru

Edit - I understand his frustration. This thread has run its course and should be closed so the Americans can open a more targeted thread to get the answers they need.

Edited June 13, 2011 by SantiSuk

[jfchandler]

Was proof demanded to support embassy letter?

What kind of proof was accepted/demanded/rejected?

Was the Thai bank account examined for proof of pension import?

What rules were applied to determine if imported income was acceptable, including time frames?

Was a WARNING voiced to be prepared for next time (what said exactly) in lieu of strict enforcement now?

Again, relevant REPORTS please. That's all we really have to go on now.

Thanks for at least trying to bring this wayward ship back on course.... :jap:

[lekiaaa]

It has long been a dream of mine to return with my family to live in Thailand after my time as a missionary back in 1982-1983. After reading some of the posts here, I am slowly watching that dream die. It seems that the government does not want people from other nations bringing their money to Thailand. Due to some of the low class behaviour of some "farangs", all seem now to be punished. In my research of other nations to spend my retirement years in, Thailand is too punitive towards the elderly from other nations. I hope this is going to be resolved before I actually make the decision of where to move. Living in the US is getting too expensive due to so much of my income going to programs that are mismanaged by a government too big to be efficient. Money goes where it is treated best and Thailand seems to be too difficult to deal with which is sad because I love the Thai people and the culture of Thailand. I speak the language very well but perhaps I need to learn spanish as the nations in Central America are much more accepting of the retirees of other nations and therefore those nations are getting ready to "boom" financially.

[SurfRider]

"Thanks for at least trying to bring this wayward ship back on course"

Best of luck, but you're not going to get the specific answers to Jing's questions no matter how long you live-- if they haven't already appeared after over 500 posts.

Edited June 13, 2011 by Maestro
Deleted libellous part of the post.

[jfchandler]

SR, you may indeed be correct about what led to this current discussion, and the thread that inspired it...

However, some resolution shouldn't be too hard to obtain... Americans and others, ThaiVisa members and posters here, are regularly going to CW to renew their extensions....

It's simply a matter of some of those people making the trip in the coming days and weeks hopefully reporting back here and saying either a) nothing has changed or b] something has changed and here's what it was...

That's hardly brain surgery... and something I'd think even those reading this thread could manage to handle.

[SurfRider]

.

"ThaiVisa members and posters here, are regularly going to CW to renew their extensions"

Can't speak for CW, but I think it's already been resolved for Pattaya -- Text from an earlier post in the thread:

Posted 2011-06-10 18:59:22

I contacted the former British Honorary Consul in Pattaya, who regularly assists Farangs at Chonburi/Pattaya Immigration in interfacing with the various issues and Immigration agents. I asked specifically about the current requirements and asked him to review this controversial ThaiVisa thread.

Here is his response:

I brought the ThaiVisa.Com remarks about needing proof of income. There's no change at Pattaya immigration – they won't normally ask for the evidence and the embassy letter alone will suffice. (Remember they always had the right to ask for evidence. Nothing has changed)

.

[moe666]

It has long been a dream of mine to return with my family to live in Thailand after my time as a missionary back in 1982-1983. After reading some of the posts here, I am slowly watching that dream die. It seems that the government does not want people from other nations bringing their money to Thailand. Due to some of the low class behaviour of some "farangs", all seem now to be punished. In my research of other nations to spend my retirement years in, Thailand is too punitive towards the elderly from other nations. I hope this is going to be resolved before I actually make the decision of where to move. Living in the US is getting too expensive due to so much of my income going to programs that are mismanaged by a government too big to be efficient. Money goes where it is treated best and Thailand seems to be too difficult to deal with which is sad because I love the Thai people and the culture of Thailand. I speak the language very well but perhaps I need to learn spanish as the nations in Central America are much more accepting of the retirees of other nations and therefore those nations are getting ready to "boom" financially.

No problem come home Thailand has no problem. If you read and believe a few here who feel going to immigration is a burden, then you need to read the post that are positive and people are in and out of immigration without a problem. These people meet the requirements and have thier ts ccrossed and Is dotted.

You will not be met at immigration by a chorus line of cheerleaders telling you to go home that we donot want you or your money. Yes some times you will have an officer who could use some customer service help but isn't that true in a lot of places. The rules for qualification have remained the same over several years, believe it or not the bar is not constantly moving as some will have you to believe. There are differences between offices and they can ask for additional information to confirm your qualifications for the extension of stay. That is what this thread has been about is more information being asked for that has not in the past.

Come to Thailand if you want but do not make that decision on some activity that only consumes a very small part of your time and energy

[kropotkin]

...I say tit for tat.

That's the spirit. You should do something about it, like write to the Secretary of State suggesting that the US government should make it as easy for Thai nationals to receive US visas and enter the USA as it is for US nationals to get visas for travel to Thailand, and don't forget to mention also visa-exempt entry with permission to stay for 30 days. No personal interview for the visa application; no additional forms to complete online at least 72 hours before travel; no fingerprinting on arrival; etc.

tit for tat ............

or what about: making it easy for bona fide visitors, and difficult for male fide visitors, both in thailand and the rest of the world?

a couple of suggestions to start with:automatic WP for married partners in thailand, abolition of ED visa for westerners

[moe666]

...I say tit for tat.

That's the spirit. You should do something about it, like write to the Secretary of State suggesting that the US government should make it as easy for Thai nationals to receive US visas and enter the USA as it is for US nationals to get visas for travel to Thailand, and don't forget to mention also visa-exempt entry with permission to stay for 30 days. No personal interview for the visa application; no additional forms to complete online at least 72 hours before travel; no fingerprinting on arrival; etc.

tit for tat ............

or what about: making it easy for bona fide visitors, and difficult for male fide visitors, both in thailand and the rest of the world?

a couple of suggestions to start with:automatic WP for married partners in thailand, abolition of ED visa for westerners

Its very easy for a bona fide visitor show up at the airport and you get 30 days on arrival in Thailand and not that much harder for a 60 day tourist visa.

[kropotkin]

...I say tit for tat.

That's the spirit. You should do something about it, like write to the Secretary of State suggesting that the US government should make it as easy for Thai nationals to receive US visas and enter the USA as it is for US nationals to get visas for travel to Thailand, and don't forget to mention also visa-exempt entry with permission to stay for 30 days. No personal interview for the visa application; no additional forms to complete online at least 72 hours before travel; no fingerprinting on arrival; etc.

tit for tat ............

or what about: making it easy for bona fide visitors, and difficult for male fide visitors, both in thailand and the rest of the world?

a couple of suggestions to start with:automatic WP for married partners in thailand, abolition of ED visa for westerners

Its very easy for a bona fide visitor show up at the airport and you get 30 days on arrival in Thailand and not that much harder for a 60 day tourist visa.

and that is a reply to my post?

[moe666]

What did you want bells and whistles. This thread is about retirement extension of stay, start a new thread

[kropotkin]

What did you want bells and whistles. This thread is about retirement extension of stay, start a new thread

i answered post 555 - seriously, not meaning hahaha.

i know it is late in thailand - so i repeat: no hahaha/555 intented, only answering post 555

[moe666]

What did you want bells and whistles. This thread is about retirement extension of stay, start a new thread

i answered post 555 - seriously, not meaning hahaha.

i know it is late in thailand - so i repeat: no hahaha/555 intented, only answering post 555

no worries I think this thread has worn everybody out. hahahaha

[tropo]

"Thanks for at least trying to bring this wayward ship back on course"

Best of luck, but you're not going to get the specific answers to Jing's questions no matter how long you live-- if they haven't already appeared after over 500 posts.

We will get answers if we can keep this thread open long enough to wait for reports. I'll be making an extension myself later this month.

Edited June 14, 2011 by tropo

[moe666]

"Thanks for at least trying to bring this wayward ship back on course"

Best of luck, but you're not going to get the specific answers to Jing's questions no matter how long you live-- if they haven't already appeared after over 500 posts.

We will get answers if we can keep this thread open long enough to wait for reports. I'll be making an extension myself later this month.

When we get reports Jing will be happy lol