Thai Immigration Tightens Requirements For Retirement Visa Extensions

[rayw]

Requirement should be 350K per annum (100k for a Non-O 3mo), a clean police record and a ticket out. After that this is just all just a game to keep a slothful bureaucracy well taken care of.

What more is needed?? REALLY? No, REALLY.

I'm only a moderate spender and don't throw money around. There is no way I could possibly live on 350K per annum in Thailand. My rent, electricity and internet alone costs me over 360K.

I think 65K/800K is a fairly low bar.

REALLY!

Agree Tropo though to be honest although you say you couldn't, and I certainly wouldn't want to, it should be possible to live on 350K Baht a year here if you really led a very frugal pretty miserable life and who wants that in retirement.

Bangkokburning has inferred I do not realise there is corruption in Thailand. Of course we surely all know that here as such knowledge is hardly rocket science. I have lived here over 8 years now and do surprisingly keep my eyes and ears open rather than just been asleep since I arrived here. Also we are talking about 1 year retirement visas and their annual renewal, not 3 month tourist visas where you do not need any 100K Baht, or any money at all, just the ticket back out for sure. You do not need or would want any ticket out of course when coming here on an issued retirement visa as most folk do, or really should do, obtaining it at their home country's Thai Embassy, which I found quite easy to do in London too. Sure you need a clean police record and proof of that and meet the income requirement but that is about it these days as no medical even required now. I repeat what I said before 800K TB or proof of 65K TB income per month or the helpful combo alternative is NOT unreasonable for a retirement visa requirement and in fact far easier than many if not most countries you could chose to retire to. My stating that is in no way bowing to anyone of course so why even say that? I am just simply stating a not unreasonable and completely sound and sensible factually based opinion and hopefully also giving helpful and sound tips to those new here or planning to retire here.

If you are saying that your income is only about 350K Baht per year then it surely should not be difficult to temporarily get hold of the extra 450K Baht needed and remember you only need it in your account say for the week you are renewing your retirement visa each year as the 2 or 3 month requirement is only for your initial retirement visa or for renewals where you are not using the income or combo system. If you cannot get hold of that sort of money to top up your income then quite honestly I personally feel that you have no emergency reserves and really taking a big risk living overseas at all so maybe you really should not be living here anyway. What happens if you need an operation here? Where will you find the needed costs? Heck even my annual Bupa health insurance here costs me 27K Baht a year and that will rise quite a lot now I have turned 65 and that is just one needed bill of many. So one wonders who is in fact the suggested "tool" you mentioned? If that defines someone like myself and many many others here who have planned their retirement in Thailand and worked out their finances carefully then okay I hold my hand in the air as I must be a tool then!! You should maybe be back in the UK retired and at least you can work there if needed or if possible, or otherwise get social security top up to your pension; oh and also you do get in the UK as a pensioner a totally free health service, free prescriptions, bus passes, and many other side benefits you do not get living here of course. Not saying it isn't cheaper to live here than it is in the UK as of course it is and a major reason why I retired here as I am in no way a rich man. All I did was just carefully plan to ensure I had at least enough funds to live here and meet the Thai visa requirements, which to me is what everyone sensibly should do before even thinking about retiring here. If I needed 450K Baht and did not have the liquid funds available then I would fairly easily be able to get hold of it by say a simple Credit Card cash advance for a couple of weeks and surely most of us here have a credit card or two for such emergencies, something I ensured I had before leaving the UK. That would at least save selling any investments if you have any or paying early withdrawal fees from fixed deposit accounts etc and thus probably less costly in such a case too despite the exorbitant cash withdrawal charges the credit card companies make.

[Maestro]

I don't think Immigration requested the change in format. That change was a natural fall-out from the request for embassies to further assure their income certification procedures. Understandable why they would not want (or have) the resources to do Immigration's bidding...

You got that right. The English translation of the explanation sent to their citizens confirms it. Puzzle solved.

The Swiss embassy has always only authenticated the signature and I suspect most embassies did and continue to do the same. Of the few that confirmed the income in the letter, the Dutch embassy now will no longer do so.

[rayw]

Whoops posted this twice, what a tool I really am.

Ohh whilst I am here again, Jingthing yes you are of course correct Thai Immigration can change anything they want so maybe I should say it is highly unlikely they will do such a thing. As pointed out it is impractical and unworkable for all the reasons stated. I seriously believe the current retirement rules here are completely fair, well thought out and in fact easier than many other countries. There is no need to change these rules just they are now understandably ensuring that their rules are being properly applied.

Edited June 16, 2011 by rayw

[JimGant]

Of the few that confirmed the income in the letter, the Dutch embassy now will no longer do so.

Nor, of late, the Brits:

In previous years the wording was, 'Mr. X has shown evidence that he is in receipt of income worth xx on a regular monthly basis.' This year, the wording is, 'Mr. X has stated that he receives a monthly pension of xx.' With the cryptic reminder to Immigration, lest there be any doubt of their policy change: "The British Embassy accepts no responsibility for the contents of this document".

With this change, it would seem doubtful the Brits are even reviewing income statements any longer, a process that, while certainly not full-proof, at least weeded-out obvious fraudulent presentations. (Can any Brit comment on whether or not income statements still need to be provided?)

So the Thais, understandably fed-up with financial misrepresentations, pushed the embassies to use more resources to verify income. Result: Not only 'no' -- but 'hell no.' Now, even a first line of fraud detection by some, is being eliminated. Talk about blowing up in your face...

Act 2 should be interesting, if not fun.

[Darrel]

My rent, electricity and internet alone costs me over 360K.

I think 65K/800K is a fairly low bar.

800K on deposit is a pittance and doesnt bother me at all. However I dont spend anywhere near 65K per month and probably never will.

As for rent, electricity and internet exceeding 360K, it all depends on how big your dwelling is. A nice condo in Jomtien with a full-on sea view would cost me well under 200K per year, 6K for a year's internet from Sophon and about 36K max for electricity, even using the aircon generously, which I dont, for a total of well under 250K. I have no idea how I could spend more than that on those things, unless I had a large condo with extra bedrooms that I never used (why?).

And if I owned the condo rather than renting it then my yearly fixed outgoings would probably be under 50K (electricity, maintenance, internet/cable, water).

[tropo]

Requirement should be 350K per annum (100k for a Non-O 3mo), a clean police record and a ticket out. After that this is just all just a game to keep a slothful bureaucracy well taken care of.

What more is needed?? REALLY? No, REALLY.

I'm only a moderate spender and don't throw money around. There is no way I could possibly live on 350K per annum in Thailand. My rent, electricity and internet alone costs me over 360K.

I think 65K/800K is a fairly low bar.

REALLY!

Agree Tropo though to be honest although you say you couldn't, and I certainly wouldn't want to, it should be possible to live on 350K Baht a year here if you really led a very frugal pretty miserable life and who wants that in retirement.

Ok, lets change "I couldn't" to "I wouldn't". I could budget down to 350K a month but if that is the type of retirement lifestyle I'd have to endure I would be on the next plane back to Oz.

In reality we're talking about retirement in another country. Not too many people would consider living in hardship a decent retirement.

We can live a great lifestyle in Thailand, but IMO it is impossible to live that on less than 65K per month. I'm sure I'm not alone.

[tropo]

With this change, it would seem doubtful the Brits are even reviewing income statements any longer, a process that, while certainly not full-proof, at least weeded-out obvious fraudulent presentations. (Can any Brit comment on whether or not income statements still need to be provided?)

So the Thais, understandably fed-up with financial misrepresentations, pushed the embassies to use more resources to verify income. Result: Not only 'no' -- but 'hell no.' Now, even a first line of fraud detection by some, is being eliminated. Talk about blowing up in your face...

Act 2 should be interesting, if not fun.

I think you've summed it up well.

...and really the only way for the Thai Immigration to see an income is truly available is to see it transferred into a Thai bank account over the period of a year. I would be quite happy to do this and dispense with the Embassy letter altogether.

Edited June 16, 2011 by tropo

[tropo]

My rent, electricity and internet alone costs me over 360K.

I think 65K/800K is a fairly low bar.

800K on deposit is a pittance and doesnt bother me at all. However I dont spend anywhere near 65K per month and probably never will.

As for rent, electricity and internet exceeding 360K, it all depends on how big your dwelling is. A nice condo in Jomtien with a full-on sea view would cost me well under 200K per year, 6K for a year's internet from Sophon and about 36K max for electricity, even using the aircon generously, which I dont, for a total of well under 250K. I have no idea how I could spend more than that on those things, unless I had a large condo with extra bedrooms that I never used (why?).

And if I owned the condo rather than renting it then my yearly fixed outgoings would probably be under 50K (electricity, maintenance, internet/cable, water).

Allow me to elaborate:

Rent: 25K per month = 300K per year. I've never seen an apartment or condo I would like to live in an area I like for under 20K per month. I'm very fussy and I don't consider 25K excessive. I'm lucky I found a place I like for only 25K as most places I want to live in are higher.

Electricity: About 500 KwH per month average at government rate = 23K per year

Internet: 36K per year for 2 premier connections.

That's 360K per year before I've eaten.

Then at least 1000 baht per day for food, other essentials and eating out. That's another 360K per year on bare essentials.

If they start requiring 65K per month to be imported to a Thai bank account I won't have anything to worry about. It doesn't even cover my basics.

[Jingthing]

The ability to transfer in 65k per month is not always related to the inconvenience/burden of having your finances micromanaged by the Thai government to that extreme degree. If they did go that way, they are going to lose a lot of current and potential retirees. I give them enough credit that they would figure that out. So if they want a mass elder farang cleansing, that would likely work. Yes I'm ahead of you smarty pants with loopholes waiting; IF they did that there is little doubt they would ALSO apply a potential full import policy to those currently using the 800K banked method. Tropo may not care (more room on the golf course?) but I can assure you a huge percentage of us care very much.

Note to future potential retirees here. Are you sure? Your long security here will be basically ZILCH as the rules can change at any time. The Thai government isn't exactly sending you an invite; if you do come you have invited yourself. Just checking ...

Admittedly off topic, but many retirees here would very much appreciate some kind of reasonable path towards residency and permission to stay for life in Thailand similar to what a number of other nations offer their long term foreign retirees.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Jingthing

[tropo]

. Tropo may not care (more room on the golf course?) but I can assure you a huge percentage of us care very much.

You can't assure us of anything as you're just taking a guess, but irrespective of certain people caring about it, most of the ones who care about it are probably the ones who cannot afford to import 65K per month.

The money one spends must somehow get to Thailand in order to spend it. Even if people use ATM's to get the money (which is exactly how I've done it for most of the last 5 years), they could easily drop the money into a Thai account before they spend it and use an ATM receipt as proof that it was imported from abroad.

[JimGant]

Something to ponder....

Immigration has a problem with fraudulent income reporting. And the embassies aren't prepared to bail them out of this situation...

How to fix? They don't know, but, as we have seen, they have been using random trials: "Show income statements; show two months income (pension) imports to Thailand;" probably others we haven't seen here. Have any shown to be workable? Dunno. And is the problem severe enough to warrant added resources at Immigration to deal with the problem? Again, dunno.

However, if they do add resources to increase income verification at Immigration, this might lead to another irritant -- at least for those not paying taxes to their homeland (Yanks, relax). With added resources, they could now ask for tax receipts for the indicated income. If none, pay the Thai piper.

I bring this up, as I remember asking my European neighbor what method he uses. "800k in the bank, of course -- don't want to give any hint of income that they would surely know is not being taxed in Switzerland."

Again, Yanks relax. Others, you may want to keep a close eye on this subject, as Thai revenuers could be in your future.

[bangkokburning]

Tropo: My rent, electricity and internet alone costs me over 360K.  

Internet B500 Electricity B1500-2000

Rent B28,000 IN PATTAYA no less???  

You might spend it but its a want, certainly not a need.

I can get a great apartment in Hawaii for that or baring that Phuket or even Singapore.

Very adequate accommodation can be had for B5000 up. Clean, secure. After that it's choice. I have a great place in the middle of Bangkok and I am paying < B5k and that includes Internet.

In the end, it is our money and we all can choose how to spend it - or not. My 2baht's worth was to eliminate what is the minimum needed to keep a person fed and housed.

All this worrying about income, paperwork and fraud...its never the people that are applying for these visas that are the criminal element. OK, some work illegally...but its honest work. All Thailand's international criminal problems I venture to say do not come from "retirees".

Idiots that try the marriage visa route - I'm certain that fraud lasts two applications at best.

Thailand needs to get its act together and tackle its International crime problems. Not chase retirees and put up barriers to people coming here to spend money. But that would take work, discipline and education.

I really don't care. I will never put that sort of money in a Thai bank with its potential to disappear (you get a shrug, oh well). I also love how it can't be in interest bearing acct (just to screw you more BY DESIGN).

The whole thing might be excusable if there was an honest, straightforward process to obtain permanent residency, annual visas, six month visas and tourist visas - but there is not. Every immigration office, every clerk has a different take, different paperwork and different menstrual cycle.

The reporting thing is completely insane. Is it true you have to report back after a trip abroad as well? Does your apartment need to report when you leave for a week or a month and report you back as well? I know no other nation...not America, Not Europe.

Edited June 16, 2011 by bangkokburning

[jfchandler]

800K on deposit is a pittance and doesnt bother me at all. However I dont spend anywhere near 65K per month and probably never will.

Everyone's financial situations are different, including the issue of renters vs. owners who may have paid cash and have no substantial mortgage payment here...

However, on the 800,000K issue, I certainly could do that, but have never done so... Even with the lousy interest rates in the U.S., I certainly can get a much better return on $22,000 in the U.S. than by plunking it into a Thai bank account where, in addition, it's safety and security is more than a bit questionable due to lousy consumer/fraud protection rules here.

I still spend the same amount of money, so that doesn't change my expenditures here... In fact, just the%2

Edited June 17, 2011 by jfchandler

[tlcwaterfall]

Requirement should be 350K per annum (100k for a Non-O 3mo), a clean police record and a ticket out. After that this is just all just a game to keep a slothful bureaucracy well taken care of.

What more is needed?? REALLY? No, REALLY.

I'm only a moderate spender and don't throw money around. There is no way I could possibly live on 350K per annum in Thailand. My rent, electricity and internet alone costs me over 360K.

I think 65K/800K is a fairly low bar.

REALLY!

Agree Tropo though to be honest although you say you couldn't, and I certainly wouldn't want to, it should be possible to live on 350K Baht a year here if you really led a very frugal pretty miserable life and who wants that in retirement.

Bangkokburning has inferred I do not realise there is corruption in Thailand. Of course we surely all know that here as such knowledge is hardly rocket science. I have lived here over 8 years now and do surprisingly keep my eyes and ears open rather than just been asleep since I arrived here. Also we are talking about 1 year retirement visas and their annual renewal, not 3 month tourist visas where you do not need any 100K Baht, or any money at all, just the ticket back out for sure. You do not need or would want any ticket out of course when coming here on an issued retirement visa as most folk do, or really should do, obtaining it at their home country's Thai Embassy, which I found quite easy to do in London too. Sure you need a clean police record and proof of that and meet the income requirement but that is about it these days as no medical even required now. I repeat what I said before 800K TB or proof of 65K TB income per month or the helpful combo alternative is NOT unreasonable for a retirement visa requirement and in fact far easier than many if not most countries you could chose to retire to. My stating that is in no way bowing to anyone of course so why even say that? I am just simply stating a not unreasonable and completely sound and sensible factually based opinion and hopefully also giving helpful and sound tips to those new here or planning to retire here.

If you are saying that your income is only about 350K Baht per year then it surely should not be difficult to temporarily get hold of the extra 450K Baht needed and remember you only need it in your account say for the week you are renewing your retirement visa each year as the 2 or 3 month requirement is only for your initial retirement visa or for renewals where you are not using the income or combo system. If you cannot get hold of that sort of money to top up your income then quite honestly I personally feel that you have no emergency reserves and really taking a big risk living overseas at all so maybe you really should not be living here anyway. What happens if you need an operation here? Where will you find the needed costs? Heck even my annual Bupa health insurance here costs me 27K Baht a year and that will rise quite a lot now I have turned 65 and that is just one needed bill of many. So one wonders who is in fact the suggested "tool" you mentioned? If that defines someone like myself and many many others here who have planned their retirement in Thailand and worked out their finances carefully then okay I hold my hand in the air as I must be a tool then!! You should maybe be back in the UK retired and at least you can work there if needed or if possible, or otherwise get social security top up to your pension; oh and also you do get in the UK as a pensioner a totally free health service, free prescriptions, bus passes, and many other side benefits you do not get living here of course. Not saying it isn't cheaper to live here than it is in the UK as of course it is and a major reason why I retired here as I am in no way a rich man. All I did was just carefully plan to ensure I had at least enough funds to live here and meet the Thai visa requirements, which to me is what everyone sensibly should do before even thinking about retiring here. If I needed 450K Baht and did not have the liquid funds available then I would fairly easily be able to get hold of it by say a simple Credit Card cash advance for a couple of weeks and surely most of us here have a credit card or two for such emergencies, something I ensured I had before leaving the UK. That would at least save selling any investments if you have any or paying early withdrawal fees from fixed deposit accounts etc and thus probably less costly in such a case too despite the exorbitant cash withdrawal charges the credit card companies make.

You make some valid points in your post.

It may be worth considering making your paragraphs much shorter, say no more than 5 lines. This will make your posts much easier to read and I feel more people will read them. After all you obviously put a lot of time and thought in to your posts so it makes sense that you would make it as easy as possible for people to read them.

Not a criticism just a helpful idea so please do not take offence.

Edited June 17, 2011 by tlcwaterfall

[jfchandler]

The Dutch embassy requires proof of income. Without it you don't get the embassy letter.

Mario, re the Dutch consulate, TV member Middelman, in posts 602, 604 and 612 above, seems to be saying they've changed their policy on that...

They confirm only that you wrote the form. You have to proof to immigration the amount you filled in on the form.

Actually, Midelman said that the email he got from the Dutch embassy states that the embassy will no longer say in the letter that they confirm the income. They will only authenticate the signature of the person who wrote the affidavit. Midelman later clarified that he has not yet needed to get the embassy letter since this change was made.

Thanks for that Maestro... Somehow, I didn't catch the Middelman followup you mention above... I was waiting and waiting to see his response....and didn't find any.... That's obviously why he never provided any account of what happened on the issue of income verification during his subsequent Immigration visit...since he didn't end up using an income letter as yet.

[electau]

The original post was if Thai immigration required proof of income for a visa extension based on retirement. Yes or No.

This is to prevent fraud.

The Australian Embassy use a Commonwealth Statutory Declaration form which is witnessed by a consular official, This is subject to the requirements of the Criminal Code if a false declaration is made.

A genuine applicant will have proof of income, Bank statements etc.

If the appllcant has a Thai bank account the Bank passbook is proof of origin of all deposits from overseas by IMT.(TT)

Immigration reserve the right as in all countries to ask for additional documentation to support a visa application or extension. "May" ask not "Shall" ask.

Other countries UK, NZ, Canada, USA will have similar requirements as to the making of declarations.

You make the Declaration in front of a consular official within your Embassy not Thai Immigration.

In all cases you are legally responsible for what you sign for.

An example of what one might declare on a Statutory Declaration:

"I have income which meets the financial requirements of Thai Immigration for an extension of visa based on retirement."

You then sign the declaration in front of the consular official. The consular official will ask you if you are aware of the content of the declaration and the penalties for knowingly giving false information under the criminal code.

The consular official then signs and stamps the document.

　

Edited June 17, 2011 by electau

[trisailer]

Thailand has a right to set the bar where ever they want. The letter from the embassy certifying income isn't worth the paper it's written on. Certainly not the $50 it cost to get. Thai immigration is well aware of that fact.

When Thailand is strapped with cleaning up the mess made by some destitute farangs, they won't care one wit if that person had a letter from the embassy.

Every country has a income requirement for immigration. You must prove that you have income that is above 125% of the US poverty level to bring your bride to the US. That's actually generous because no two people can live in the US on 46,000 baht per month.

The rule is clear, if you have the income you can prove it. I believe that if you live in the US the money can be in the Bangkok Bank branch in NY and BB has a process for transferring it to Thailand.

Just yesterday I saw 2 destitute farangs walking past the Starbucks in Pattaya, both of these losers are going to end up costing Thailand.

Edited June 17, 2011 by trisailer

[Pattaya46]

I seriously believe the current retirement rules here are completely fair, well thought out and in fact easier than many other countries.

There is no need to change these rules

Hi rayw,

To make these rules "completely fair" I would make a small change: For guys who own their condo or house (and then don't have rent to pay) I would reduce the 800 k option to maybe 400 k in bank. Owning our own place is an investment and a guarantee that we have some money to pay in case of big problem (hospital,...)

[jfchandler]

The rule is clear, if you have the income you can prove it. I believe that if you live in the US the money can be in the Bangkok Bank branch in NY and BB has a process for transferring it to Thailand.

Just yesterday I saw 2 destitute farangs walking past the Starbucks in Pattaya, both of these losers are going to end up costing Thailand.

You're off on a couple of points here...

1. the BB Branch in New York hosts no consumer accounts... It only serves as a transit point, for a fee, for people sending money from U.S. bank accounts to their Bangkok Bank branch account in Thailand.

2. Try having a bit of compassion for those less fortunate than yourself... You never know when you might find yourself in their shoes...

But more importantly, it's more than a bit of stretch to automatically assume that the two "destitute" people you saw were on retirement extensions of stay and had somehow evaded the Immigration income test...

Edited June 17, 2011 by jfchandler

[jfchandler]

This thread is now at 27+ pages.... and still no evidence that Thai immigration has made any kind of broad policy change in how they deal with income verification for retirement extensions of stay -- contrary to the OP..

I can only suggest, rather than debating the fairness of various potential policies and changes that haven't occurred, it might be more productive to focus on what Immigration actually is or isn't doing when people show up to apply for their extensions...

In that end, that's what ought to really matter to folks here.

[electau]

With reference to post #679.

An Australian Statutory Declaration is a legal document which if used outside of Australia is subject to a fee of about $!8AUD. For use within Australia no charge is levied.

If translated and noterised by the Ministry of Foreign affairs in Thailand it becomes a legal document in Thailand.

So far translations have not been required by Thai Immigration.

[Darrel]

However, on the 800,000K issue, I certainly could do that, but have never done so... Even with the lousy interest rates in the U.S., I certainly can get a much better return on $22,000 in the U.S. than by plunking it into a Thai bank account where, in addition, it's safety and security is more than a bit questionable due to lousy consumer/fraud protection rules here.

Well, I dont see a huge difference in the return between a time deposit here and a time deposit in the UK. And having the money in the bank here means I dont need to pay a fortune to the British consul for a pointless declaration every year. The pleasure I get from not having to do that is well worth anything I might be losing on interest.

[Darrel]

Owning our own place is an investment and a guarantee that we have some money to pay in case of big problem (hospital,...)

If you can sell it.

[jfchandler]

Well, I dont see a huge difference in the return between a time deposit here and a time deposit in the UK. And having the money in the bank here means I dont need to pay a fortune to the British consul for a pointless declaration every year. The pleasure I get from not having to do that is well worth anything I might be losing on interest.

Until you wake up some morning, check online, and find your Thai bank account has been emptied by a crooked bank employee or their BF/GF, or someone who's skimmed your card, or any variation of similar things...

And you go to the Thai bank staff and say, please restore my lost funds.... And their response is... Mai bpen rai... Go file a police report.

The safety of your funds in a Thai bank is not the same as in the U.S. or, I'd presume, in the U.K., in regard to consumer protection and fraud safeguards.

Does that happen often? Probably not... But does it happen and if it does, are you screwed? Absolutely yes.

[samran]

Owning our own place is an investment and a guarantee that we have some money to pay in case of big problem (hospital,...)

If you can sell it.

Money talks. Cash...and liquid.

A second hand property can take yonks to sell and the market is highly illiquid. They are doing you a favour of not letting you use property as part of you 400K/800K bond, lest you have to sell it for a massively discounted price -and then have to come onto TV and have a whinge about how you've been screwed over.

[Pattaya46]

The safety of your funds in a Thai bank is not the same as in the U.S.

Those who invest in Bernard Madoff certainly agree with you...

BTW, can you please tell us how you can get money from a Thai bank card without the pin?

or how you can get money from a passbook without signature and ID document?...

I have yet to find someone here who get this kind of bank problem that has not be solved.

[jfchandler]

The safety of your funds in a Thai bank is not the same as in the U.S.

BTW, can you please tell us how you can get money from a Thai bank card without the pin?

or how you can get money from a passbook without signature and ID document?...

I have yet to find someone here who get this kind of bank problem that has not be solved.

I think you need to become more aware of how Thai banking works here... And there have been lots of news reports here on TV over the years to back it up...

First, bank employees or their relations draining funds from accounts illegally has happened many times... And they don't need any info from the account holder to do so, because they do so internally within the bank. The Thai bank deposit insurance scheme doesn't protect against that, only against the bank itself failing/going bankrupt.

Second, ATM card skimmers and related methods like mini video cameras at ATMs or people covertly watching aim to steal people's card and PIN numbers. Giving them full access to the account in such cases.

Third, Thai bank VISA and MC logo debit cards can be used in the swipe and sign mode, just like other debit cards. No need for a PIN. And at least until recently, for example, BKK Bank had a default daily limit on their bank cards of 500,000 baht... or more than $16,000 U.S.

I had a U.S. bank VISA logo debit card stolen on the Skytrain last year.... And within the 1 hour it took me to get home and contact my bank, the thieves had rung up close to $1000 in charges.

Because of U.S. consumer protections laws, I got all the funds refunded to me by my bank within two weeks. Had it been a Thai bank card, pretty likely I would have been screwed...

I can't speak specifically to debit cards... But in another thread here lately on Thai bank credit cards, we fleshed out just what their protections are in the event of theft...

For Thai banks, basically, the account holder is responsible for everything and anything that's charged until 5 minutes after they notify the bank of the theft...

And, to people's amazement, there was a case where the theft occurred over the weekend and the bank that issued the card wouldn't accept the theft report except by in person with a police report once they opened again on Monday.

Edited June 17, 2011 by jfchandler

[FarangBuddha]

...Third, Thai bank VISA and MC logo debit cards can be used in the swipe and sign mode, just like other debit cards. No need for a PIN. And at least until recently, for example, BKK Bank had a default daily limit on their bank cards of 500,000 baht... or more than $16,000 U.S.

I had a U.S. bank VISA logo debit card stolen on the Skytrain last year.... And within the 1 hour it took me to get home and contact my bank, the thieves had rung up close to $1000 in charges.

Because of U.S. consumer protections laws, I got all the funds refunded to me by my bank within two weeks. Had it been a Thai bank card, pretty likely I would have been screwed...

I can't speak specifically to debit cards... But in another thread here lately on Thai bank credit cards, we fleshed out just what their protections are in the event of theft...

For Thai banks, basically, the account holder is responsible for everything and anything that's charged until 5 minutes after they notify the bank of the theft...

And, to people's amazement, there was a case where the theft occurred over the weekend and the bank that issued the card wouldn't accept the theft report except by in person with a police report once they opened again on Monday.

Seems like good reasons to be very leery of having/using a Thai bank branded credit card. I do use a Thai bank (Kasikorn) ATM/debit card, which notifies me via SMS immediately when a POS debit is incurred...making it easy to know if the card's number/PIN has been lifted. However, it doesn't notify me when it is used at an ATM (the assumption being that since the PIN was used the card must be in the possession of the account holder).

[jfchandler]

Sorry for the sidetrack into Thai banking... There are plenty of threads specifically on that topic...

My only point was to say, there IS a difference between keeping a large amount of funds (like 800,000 baht for retirement extension purposes) in a Thai bank vs. your home country bank... Don't assume the protections are the same.

[Pattaya46]

I think you need to become more aware of how Thai banking works here...

I think your are absolutely not objective about how it works (well)...

I will not develop because it's not the subject of this thread, but nearly all what you said is no Thailand specific and can happen in any country (skimmers very frequent in Europe). As I said before you need Pin or Signature to get money from a card or book. Not so easy.

I only know 2 cases of "bank problem" around me in 5 years: An ATM giving only half the asked amount, and 4,000 baht "missing" on a passbook without any operation of the owner. It was at Kasikorn South Pattaya and in both case the Bank put back the money on the book (just need of tens of signatures... )

I think it's ridiculous to try to afraid people in the case of this discussion: I really doubt there is any risk to deposit required 800 kbaht on a time deposit account in Thailand.

More and more the simplest and more hassle less solution for retirement visa. :jap: