Thai Immigration Tightens Requirements For Retirement Visa Extensions

[Naam]

Ok, someone tell me how you do this. I am an american and only show the letter each year stating an income of 2448 dollars a month.

I do not have a bank account in Thailand as i us a debit card. At the local bank for all my cash needs.

I have one check from SS for $1448 a month and one from divedends for $1000 a month. How the _uck do i show proof of income if I cannot show a bank statment from America?

If someone is doing the stated income of at least 65000 baht a month. Then please tell me how you do it.

I really do not want to pout 800000 baht in the bank here. One of my dividend accounts for 30,000 makes me over 2000 a year in dividends. It would be stupid for me to put money in Thailand.

Thanks

wouldn't it be more stupid for you if your next extension of stay is refused?

[personchester]

If the Thai government don't want foreigners staying in Thailand, than why they just don't kick them out of the country? They need all there little rules and requirements to make life impossible. Its not a matter if foreigners are going to be kicked out of the country but its a matter of when?

The government like to create chaos in the visa application process so nobody understand the process or is notified. This chaos creates a possibility for the immigration police to abuse there power and ask for the extra "fee" when something is not according the absurd rules and requirements and to straighten it all up again. I guess the circle is closed again!

Well yes, farangs are not entirely welcomed here, but they can not be totally kicked out because many, many, Thais live and work abroad, and they support their families with their increased foreign income.

[TechnikaIII]

It's totally crazy that the average Thai earns about 8000 baht a month, but they expect farangs to have pension incomes of 65,000 baht a month to live there.

If you have a Thai family you will understand very quickly.

Thanks for the warning.

[Dante99]

What fun. If all the transfers in are ATM withdrawals and credit card payments there will be a lot of papers for Immigration to evaluate and numbers to add up to determine if the 65,000 Baht level is reached monthly.

[moe666]

Ok, someone tell me how you do this. I am an american and only show the letter each year stating an income of 2448 dollars a month.

I do not have a bank account in Thailand as i us a debit card. At the local bank for all my cash needs.

I have one check from SS for $1448 a month and one from divedends for $1000 a month. How the _uck do i show proof of income if I cannot show a bank statment from America?

If someone is doing the stated income of at least 65000 baht a month. Then please tell me how you do it.

I really do not want to pout 800000 baht in the bank here. One of my dividend accounts for 30,000 makes me over 2000 a year in dividends. It would be stupid for me to put money in Thailand.

Thanks

wouldn't it be more stupid for you if your next extension of stay is refused?

Naam has a way with words. Also how much appreciation in your money have you missed out on by the falling strenght of the dollar and rising baht.

[gamb00ler]

I hope someone will clarify this. I do not bring money from my pension in each month, I bring it in a few times a year in $10000 lots. Gets expensive if I have to do it each month.

I agree with you on that - I do the same thing as bank transfers can get costly.

A few years ago I used the USA ACH transfer method to move funds to Thailand from US. This was via the Bank of Bangkok, New York branch.

Here is what is required:

open or have an existing Bank of Bangkok account

get the routing number of the Bank of Bangkok's New York branch

use the account number of your Bank of Bangkok account in Thailand

use your USA bank's external transfer option (most have this)to transfer funds from your USA bank to the routing number and account number from above

cost was $5.00 per transfer

I don't know the restrictions on this type of transfer. I even used it to transfer funds from online poker sites to BKK bank.

Gamb00ler

[electau]

One should point out that in the case of the Australian Embassy one makes a Statutory Declaration in writing which is witnessed.

Making a false or fraudulent statutory declaration is a criminal offence. You are making the declaration at an Australian Embassy not to Thai Immigration.

It is this Statutory Declaration which is supplied as evidence to Thai Imiigration of your income as stated.

Bank statements from your home bank provide the evidence of income source. If you have internet banking one can print off these statements.

There is no requiremment that you must have a Thai bank account. What they are looking for is proof of income/pension from your home country.

As these documents are in English Thai Immigration may have difficulty understanding them in some cases that is understandable.

But as yet certified translations are not required.

And it is understandable that some people may not want to have a Thai Bank account.

[Chupup]

Unless your lieing to your embassy its a non issue ??

All thats happening here is they want to see that what you claim is reality.. If no ones telling porkies then I see no issue.

Apparently, once again, people from Immigrations have been reading ThaiVisa message boards to find out which loopholes are being exploited. Many times when someone has posed a question on this board about proof of income or meeting the minimums, someone has responded that if you're an American (or someone else whose embassy uses sworn statements) that you can just say anything you want.

Same was true back when people were shifting bank balances around and Immigrations then decided to require money to be in your account for several months. The geniuses posting on TV would brag about how clever they were and that loophole was closed.

Anyway, as someone else said, the financial requirements remain the same, but because of a few dishonest people we will all have to provide more documentation that we meet those requirements.

I don't see the relevance of the comparison of a supposed average Thai salary of Baht 8000 to the Baht 65,000 requirement for retired farang. It may hurt your feelings to face the fact that Thailand is not providing a refugee camp for impoverished farang. We're welcomed here if we are going to spend money to boost the economy. Very sensible. Not sure what other countries are laying out a big welcome for foreign welfare cases.

The UK is No.1. in this respect, immigrants, after arriving get ... free housing, free healthcare, and a fortnightly social security payment, and officials are under instructions not do bother them in order to prevent the accusation of being a racist.

Not to mention kicking their own pensioners in the balls by stopping aproximatly one third of their state pension ( that they paid into by deductions from wages ) if they live in Thailand

[thaisail]

I am 55 years old and I am still working in the US merchant marine as an engineering officer with a monthly income of around 150000 baht based on 6 months of work per year. I have been living in Phuket for 5 years now. I have a Thai wife and a 4 year old daughter who born in Thailand. I have been coming to Thailand on a multiple entry marriage visa where I must leave Thailand every 3 months.This is no longer convenient for me and I just want to have a visa all the time that I am in Thailand. I have heard that with a retirement visa, I can simply pay about 3000 baht per year and still have multiple entries without having to get an exit visa each time I leave Thailand to go to work. I usually work a schedule of 120 days on the ship and 120 days at home in Phuket.It is also difficult to find an embassy and the time while I am working on the ship to get a Thai marriage visa. However, my paycheck has been going to my US bank account and when I need money I simply go to an ATM and take out what I need. Since I am with Schwab Bank I am still getting the 150 baht ATM fee reimbursed at the end of each month so I have found this as the most economical way to get my money into Thailand. I have a bank account with SCB and I keep a balance of about 100000 baht so I am far short of the 800000 required for the retirement visa. Does anyone know if Thai immigration will accept my pay vouchers from the shipping companies that I work for in order to prove the income requirement?

[elektrified]

Whats confusing is that some individuals have an income but not a pension as yet.

So do they now want to see pension proof or income proof?

As many i know that are over 50 but under 65yrs don't qualify for their pensions in their home countries.

Bingo...

I too, hope that someone will clarify this.

[F4UCorsair]

Bad typo. This is what I should have typed:

It's never been any different suradit, in so many different facets of life, a minority screwing it for the majority.

[elektrified]

Breaking News . . . Thai Immigration cracking down on people trying to cheat the system.

What awful people they are. Let's hear from the apologists who feel that farang retirees should be allowed to claim whatever monthly pension they like with no checks at all by Immigration.

Uhhhh let's see here. You've been a member for 4 days and know it all. Not everyone here is a retiree.

[phuketrichard]

.

"What if income is not pension income but investment income? To be treated the same way?"

Yes! -- Basing income on a "pension" is clearly a simple-minded ancient outdated concept -- What about dividend income from investments paid quarterly or yearly to a foreign account? -- how about annuity income or distribution from an IRA? -- A retiree drawing on savings?

Some immigration agent with a 6th grade education and an IQ of 70 is supposed to understand and judge a retiree based on all of those possible variables?

Hopefully, this ridiculous edict will go the way of the photo-copy of both sides of a credit card that was required a couple of years ago and lasted only a few weeks until someone woke up and realized how ridiculous it was.

.

What amount does the Thai immigration gauge the rate of exchange from foreign income to Thai Baht? The US consulate charges rates for services at the rate of 40B/ 1USD

Not true, For the notarized letter its $50 or 1,550 baht so they use 31 baht to the $

[phuketrichard]

I am 55 years old and I am still working in the US merchant marine as an engineering officer with a monthly income of around 150000 baht based on 6 months of work per year. I have been living in Phuket for 5 years now. I have a Thai wife and a 4 year old daughter who born in Thailand. I have been coming to Thailand on a multiple entry marriage visa where I must leave Thailand every 3 months.This is no longer convenient for me and I just want to have a visa all the time that I am in Thailand. I have heard that with a retirement visa, I can simply pay about 3000 baht per year and still have multiple entries without having to get an exit visa each time I leave Thailand to go to work. I usually work a schedule of 120 days on the ship and 120 days at home in Phuket.It is also difficult to find an embassy and the time while I am working on the ship to get a Thai marriage visa. However, my paycheck has been going to my US bank account and when I need money I simply go to an ATM and take out what I need. Since I am with Schwab Bank I am still getting the 150 baht ATM fee reimbursed at the end of each month so I have found this as the most economical way to get my money into Thailand. I have a bank account with SCB and I keep a balance of about 100000 baht so I am far short of the 800000 required for the retirement visa. Does anyone know if Thai immigration will accept my pay vouchers from the shipping companies that I work for in order to prove the income requirement?

Couple of points,

the cost for the extension is 1,900

the cost for a multiple re-entry is 3,900

so total for that is 5,800

If ur married then you have a non-o visa and apply for the1 year extension based on marriage

[lanna2011]

Whats confusing is that some individuals have an income but not a pension as yet.

So do they now want to see pension proof or income proof?

As many i know that are over 50 but under 65yrs don't qualify for their pensions in their home countries.

Bingo...

I too, hope that someone will clarify this.

It has always been 'proof of income' not pension - people use that term loosely - some people never have pensions at all but are wealthy.

It does strike me, though, that if someone cannot afford to put 800k in a bank or have a small income of 65 they are a bit cheeky to be complaining - they would not be able to survive anywhere in 'farangland' on less than that surely?

[theoldgit]

All we have so far is an article from Sunbelt Asia that "it looks like" there is some sort of crackdown or a closing of a loophole. So nothing official, no change on the immigration website and no announcement from anybody in authority.

Am I the only one hoping for something official to hit the press?

[Miami Bob]

This is only Bangkok immigration?? I assume the marriage extension of 40,000 a month pension is not under scrutiny ???

Don't count on them giving you the marriage visa based on 40,000 pension income...it depends on the officer and what he had for breakfast that day. Last year I showed them a letter from the embassy AND proof of a little over 40,000 and he said it "wasn't enough if I had an emergency" and wanted to see my bank book. Fortunately, because I was looking to buy a house at the time, I had way over 800,000 in my Thai account so then he said " OK I am going to give you a retirement visa" NOT a marriage visa. We believe he did that because the marriage visa involves much more paperwork for them and I never give them any tea money. So now I keep 800K in a Bangkok bank account that makes 2.5%... not a bad return in these times of low interest. That's the simplest, safest way to do it but I'm waiting for them to change that game someday also... like raising it to a million!

[Pattaya46]

What they are looking for is proof of income/pension from your home country.

No. Your incomes can come from any country.

As these documents are in English Thai Immigration may have

difficulty understanding them in some cases that is understandable.

Sorry but mine are in German, French and Mandarin (Chinese)

Could be fun to have to show that to an Immigration Officer

Proof of transfer of pension into Thailand required

- There is currently no requirement you must transfer these 65kb into Thailand;

- There is not even a requirement that you must have a Thai bank account;

-> Looks like yet another false rumor on ThaiVisa...

[BlackJack]

I suspect that some visa co has been lunching with someone to get this enforced

ie more visits to the lawyer and more kickbacks

good luck to them

i would like to see however a balanced playing field

ie a means test

ie if you own your own property therefore you dont need to pay rent so why would you need 65K PM

someone told me a long time ago - only bring in what you can afford to lose

som nom na

[personchester]

I'll confess to being one of those who wasn't entirely being truthful in my statement to my Embassy about my "income". My problem is that though I have a fair amount of money in my 401k and in savings, the amount of income being generated in these 1% return days is still negligible and I am 7 years away from being able to draw from my 401k anyway. And the concept of getting a pension is fast disappearing in the USA - everyone is being shifted to retirement savings except for govt workers. It seems to me just showing your wealth would make more sense than "income". At any rate I transferred 800,000 baht to my Thai bank account last year but find myself constantly falling below that figure as I take money out - so to really be safe one would probably need much more than that and who really wants to keep that much money in a Thai bank? But I guess that is what I will have to do.

Having the 800.K in a Thai bank is not a problem, it does not need to be frozen in the A/c, one can reduce the A/c balance throughout the year for one's living expenses, but one has to ensure that 3 months prior to one's visa renewal the 800.K sum is back in position again via a yearly transfer from one's home country, transfer fees GBP 20.00 (once a year) and on the very day after the visa renewal one can, if needed extract again from the A/c in order live here "expense-wise",

The Immigration desk officer looks very carefully at the Thai bank A/c booklet, he likes to see the spending that takes place during the year, spending is welcomed.

Conclusion ... Keep the monthly pension and any other income in the home country, and transfer (via SWIFT) three months before visa renewal the required amount to reach 800.K.

[toothfully]

It's totally crazy that the average Thai earns about 8000 baht a month, but they expect farangs to have pension incomes of 65,000 baht a month to live there.

Allowing foreigners who earn only 8000 baht a month to come in would be crazy.

[wolfmanjack]

Maybe they will do away with the expensive and meaningless letter for those that use the monthly method and just go for the actual proof.

I'm assuming that bank statements indicating receipt of pension are now required, certainly more meaningful than a letter from the embassy.

Maybe Thai Immigration will update their website to show the "new rule".

the expensive and meaningless letter

How right you are. I told Thai Immigration years ago that this Embassy letter was a farce. A person could tell the embassy any amount - even under oat – which absolute doesn’t mean a thing because a person is allowed to change its mind. Under oat doesn’t mean it is poured in concrete. Then when I told them that the letter in question cost a person Fifty Dollar ($50.00) the immigration officer nearly fell of its chair. My suggestion at that time was to have the account statement of the pension being deposited in the bank. A person could bring in several account statements as proof to show it was on a perpetual basis.

If you wait long enough things finally dawn on the Thais. But don’t hold your breath while waiting because you will turn blue around the gills.

I am not on a retirement visa but on a supporting a thai national visa. My accountant told me that getting the letter from the embassy and backing it up with copies of my bank account would be good enough. Wrong. When i went to the embassy they had me swear at least 40,000 per month from pension and other sources. Okay no pension but other sources is no problem. I went to immigration with copies of all my bank accounts show over 40,000 a month deposited in my account every month. None of that was good enough. They told me the letter was only good for pension income and asked if i could show pension income. Not income from property rents or investments but only pension income.

Edited June 7, 2011 by wolfmanjack

[electau]

In reply to Pattaya46.

One was referring to Australia only, An Australian citizen who has income/pension from Australian sources only and any income from foreign sources is deposited in an Australian bank.

All documents from Australian banks are in English only.

[luanghans]

The article is badly written and creates, rather than answers questions.

"It has been reported..." heard it at the Xpat bar?

None of the information is supported by statements issued by Immigration Officials

This article is old news for any retiree who regularly transfers money into a Thai bank account and is able to provide a statement from the bank with copies of recent transactions in a bank book.

It applies to those folks who have their money in banks outside of Thailand and draw it out of ATM's on a needed basis.

Similar articles have previously appeared 03 February 2009

Some years ago such a requirement (proof of income) was at the discretion of regional Immigration offices. It is now a nationwide requirement.

This article seems to me to be an advertisement for the individual being quoted: " ..., legal advisor at Sunbelt Asia Co., Ltd."

Having a Thai bank account with minimal transactions is the simplest proof of income

Other options of showing documents of your overseas retirement income, at times will require translations.

[wolfmanjack]

It's totally crazy that the average Thai earns about 8000 baht a month, but they expect farangs to have pension incomes of 65,000 baht a month to live there.

Allowing foreigners who earn only 8000 baht a month to come in would be crazy.

True but allowing single foreigners to come in on the same 40,000 that married people need should be good enough.

[geriatrickid]

It's totally crazy that the average Thai earns about 8000 baht a month, but they expect farangs to have pension incomes of 65,000 baht a month to live there.

If you step back and look at the situation from a disinterested perspective it makes sense. Although the age minimum for a retiree visa is 50, I think you will agree that most retirees are going to be over the age of 60. The older age group is subject to some very expensive medical care requirements. How many older foreigners actually have proper health insurance, assuming that they can get it once they pass age 70? can they even afford it? Some of the available plans are very expensive. Thais can access the local subsidized health care system. Foreigners can not. The Thais do not want the burden of foreign welfare cases.

Even in Patong which is neither elderly or lower income friendly, I see the old guys wandering about. They haven't got a pot to p*ss in and any event that disrupts the monthly budget is going to put them under. What happens then? Who takes care of them?

The minimum income requirements are actually an act of kindness on the part of the Thais. An older foreign person that cannot meet the minimum income requirements is most likely better off in his homeland where he can access social assistance, elder care, medical assistance and a variety of social programs geared for the elderly. Thais usually have an extended family to help out with grampa when he becomes feeble. Most elderly foreigners are single and have no family. (Look at the TVF survey to get an idea of demographics.)

The Thai minimum requirements really aren't that tough. The typical western government public pension covers a large chunk of the requirement. Add to that are the pension benefits from employment plans and/or retirement savings most responsible people have. It would be incredibly foolish to attempt to live in Thailand if one had less than the minimums set by the government. If anything, an argument can be made that an increase in the requirements to reflect to increases in the cost of living since the minimums were set, is long overdue.

I'm not being cruel or cold on this, just realistic.

[wolfmanjack]

Whats confusing is that some individuals have an income but not a pension as yet.

So do they now want to see pension proof or income proof?

As many i know that are over 50 but under 65yrs don't qualify for their pensions in their home countries.

Bingo...

I too, hope that someone will clarify this.

It has always been 'proof of income' not pension - people use that term loosely - some people never have pensions at all but are wealthy.

It does strike me, though, that if someone cannot afford to put 800k in a bank or have a small income of 65 they are a bit cheeky to be complaining - they would not be able to survive anywhere in 'farangland' on less than that surely?

There are millions of people in the USA that are "surviving" on less than $1,000 per month social security.

[jhwest]

I suspect that some visa co has been lunching with someone to get this enforced

ie more visits to the lawyer and more kickbacks

good luck to them

i would like to see however a balanced playing field

ie a means test

ie if you own your own property therefore you dont need to pay rent so why would you need 65K PM

someone told me a long time ago - only bring in what you can afford to lose

som nom na

Blackjack

Unfortunately there are those people, who seem to drag everyone else down and falsify statements.

Saying all of this there are a number of really very very genuine people out there who are very very good Family men, who really look after their wives and Family.

Very fair comment on owning property and yes obviously outgoings are going to be a lot less, since the vast bulk of expenditure is in the house and as you say no rent or mortgage to pay off.

In addition and surprised this has not been clamped down on is the tourist visa people who owe others money can just do a border run every 90 days and have no intention of paying their dues back.

I suppose it is a source of income, but what do these people bring to Thailand and very often their Thai wives are in the UK and are seperated or divorced.

Also one has to provide an address regarding the obtaining The State Pension to the Authorities say in the UK, but infact do not reside at that address, yet can claim this benefit. Very strange and it is these people and people know who the genuine ones are the ones who seem to get penalised!!!

[electau]

If you obtain an O visa or O- A in Australia from a Thai Consulate all that is required for you to comply with their financial requirements is a bank statement to the effect that you have sufficient funds.

[anterian]

I gave up using embassy letters years ago, my Thai bank manager knows my financial status, both here and in England. He sees a healthy deposit account in excess of 800kBaht, he sees regular transfers of money from England to Thailand, he sees all my utility bills paid by direct debit, he sees my cash withdrawals, even my weekly shopping bill at BigC.

Once a year I pay him 200 Baht for an official letter which I show to immigration, I have no idea what it says but it satisfies them.

To be candid, if you can't afford to have 800KBaht sitting in the bank, you should not be retired here. Incidentally my deposit account here is earning three times the interest it would in England at the moment.