A Fence To Keep People Out

[canopy]

I have a large rural property among forests and farms. Sometimes hunters, gatherers, and hill tribe people wander through taking stuff from the land like they do everywhere else. I want to grow things and restore other parts to an undisturbed state and hope a properly made fence will be enough to keep people from wandering in. Can you recommend a design--how high, what materials, etc? If it is too easy to just prop a piece of bamboo between barb wires to slip in then I doubt it would be effective. But on the other hand I also don't want it too overboard that looks like a prison if it doesn't have to be that way. There are plenty of other places around these people wander so just a reasonable deterrent should do. A lot of these people cannot read and pay no attention to signs. The other reason for the fence is to clearly define the property border as this tambon has no chanote nor ns3.

Edited June 7, 2011 by canopy

[farmerjo]

When you have trees on your land that bare some kind of fruit you will find it hard.

I have cement posts with 4 rows of barded wire which only is now effective because i have no trees.

My advice would be save your money on a fence and instead place bamboo sticks with a plastic bag tied to the top of them say 10 feet apart,you will be amazed how well it will work.

[Gary A]

I know of two effective ways. The first is a two meter high block wall all around the property with a pack of mean dogs inside. You will need a pack because the thieves will poison just one or two dogs. The second way is to have armed guards roving around the property 24/7. The armed guards are not as effective because they will be picking the fruit, catching the fish and selling to their friends.

Yes, I have given up. We wouldn't make any money from the fruit or fish anyways so why bother.

[WatersEdge]

Hi canopy,

I stretched 2 meter shadecloth over my barbed wire fence.

They could have cut it and passed through, but never did.

I never had a cut shadecloth in 4 years.

Cost of shadecloth is B1,400 for a 100 meter roll.

B1.40 per meter

It is UV stable, so will last for many years.

Hi farmerjo,

I'm naturally curious what forbidding omen the plastic bags on a stick serve.

If you have cultural insight, I want to know please.

For any who may read and scoff at such a silly solution,

understand that while logic has no bearing out here,

spooks and omens carry the day.

There are ascending grades of spookery,

and the hunter gatherer crowd are extremely superstitious.

It takes a bit more to spook the village and city crowds,

as they are so much more sophisticated.

and they have debts they'd like to pay.

The hunter gatherers are not outright invasive.

They will steal stuff if it's easy and if there isn't a recognizable barrier.

A barbed wire fence is not recognizable, it's just meant to be crossed.

A mango tree by the side of the road is open for all, even in broad daylight.

They have no natural shame about it, it's just the way it is for them.

There are thieves who are invasive, but that's Thai not tribal.

Farm neighbors who smile and wave by day steal by night.

Suspect first those who you'd never suspect and you will be spot on.

Thieves very seldom travel from afar, they are familiar close in.

Employees are a solid bet as well....think the unthinkable.

If work schedule is slow that's when the thievery will skyrocket.

A man weary from the day will sleep when he could be stealing.

Odd thing in the thinking here is,

Being nice to someone signals them that you are open.

If you are generous and kind, it is interpreted that you want to share in all aspects.

You wouldn't be generous if you didn't have a comfortable excess.

An excess is shared by all and it's not considered wrong.

From that it very easily slips across the blurred line into night hours.

The line is unblurred a bit by defining the hour of the day,

so the thief does not want that distinction to be clarified.

It's against our nature, but you need to be a bit edgy to maintain a healthy distance.

I have told my labor team in an end of the day fireside chat,

In the daylight you have no better friend than the big Englishman

I wish you well.

I'm glad you work for me.

You must understand however.

At night I will cut your throat.

Don't make a dangerous mistake.

[Foreverford]

I think the most effective and inexpensive way is to plant bouganvilla plants and train the runners in a parralel fasion similar to a fence or even along a one string line of fence with widespread posts. Even if people try to cut the plants to get in or kill it it will re-grow and the dead vines and torns are worse than the live ones. Itwas very effective for theiving garbage throwing bad neighbors in Mexico. it truly makes a beautiful property border. Lots of water lots of fresh new growth; no water lots of beautiful blooms. choke Dee Ps a good trick is to stick the branches of one specimen into the ground after it has traveled a bit and it will start to root and give you a new root base that will sustain the bush if the old root ball is ruined for some reason. We have a bunch of rooted cutting s that are going to be planted along the border of one farm with neighbor problems

[canopy]

This is really important guys and I am very happy to have your ideas and hope you can guide me with just a few more answers and offer other suggestions you may have. The shade cloth is a good idea and I think that would work well, but am even more interested in understanding bougainvillea as it would create a more scenic border. Is it correct bougainvillea can survive on its own without care here including making it through the dry season without water? Is there a certain variety to look for that is most suitable to a hedge or are they all pretty much the same? And what will it take to trim such a massive hedge to keep it contained?

What I am thinking of now is 2M concrete posts buried .5M meaning a 1.5M tall fence with barb wire on 20cm intervals. Plant bougainvillea on the inside of the fence. And furthermore move the fence 2M inside the perimeter of the property border so the bougainvillea has room to spread outside the fence without encroaching on neighbors property or roads. The concrete posts establishes the property line (within 2M accuracy in this case) and the barb wire offers the final discouragement to anyone thinking they can hack their way in with a machete at a weak spot in the bougainvillea.

[Foreverford]

Canopy you are the man as they say. Finally someone who is really thinking! You have got it right, no matter what you are doing about a fence make sure it is at least a meter onto your property (if you have a large plot) so you will always have legal access to work on it from the other side. I could tell stories about fences that were supposed to be on the property lines, my grandfather instilled in me when I was young about that. He talked about a newly started highrise (well many stories already built up) and the jerk owner who tried to squeeze out his neighbor for more land before he built but wouldn't sell. Eventually when the guy got high enough the old guy came to him and told him he didn't want his building on his property in this section of downtown New York in the late 1800's. the guy laughed at him and said go away I'm way inside your fence-line he agreed but told him I built my fence way inside my property line so I could on the otherside and work on it when I wanted. Something rather unheard of at that time and now, and the building had to be demolished as he woiuldn't sell him any of his land after the abuse he had recieved originally when the guy tried to force him to sell. OOpps did I say i wasn't going to tell any stories I've got more. NOOOOOOO.

OK now Can of peas here we go. Bouganvillas are extremely drought resistant and the proof is you see them growing everywhere completely unattended in old abandoned homes and plots. The more water they get the more new green growth they get and obviously water and fertilizer means even more. They start to flower prodigiously when the water is turned off and they become drought stressed, so beautiful. It's hard to say which is the best to plant for fences as far as speed of growth though it appears that the lighter pink varieties tend to grow rather fast yet are the least beautiful. In Mexico the gold was usually not as prolific and available but beautiful and that is what I used for a rear fence and it just exploded from the ground and in a short time created a massive wall and I know that now 25 years later the base has to be the size of my torso and bigger. The neighbors (bad folks) ended up using their side as a huge shady carport for many vehicles. If you use the bv's along your fence line depending how many you want to plant and now is the time to plant. I think yuou can use less wire and less posts and you will have an impenetrable border very soon with the rains this year and especially if you were to continue to water in the non-rain season. I fenced my property in mexico with old wooden posts and just three lines of barbed wire that wasn't very tight (small weak wooden posts in the desert) and then started to weave the the long braches through the wire and nobody will ever think of trying to cut through the stuff as the thorns of it are much much worse than the barbed wire. The woody cuttings root very easily in well drained soil and can make it very inexpensive to create a large border. Still I think if you were to buy in bulk from the growers I think you could get the price as low as 5 baht or less as I see them for 10 baht for a single one. As far as color, ask the growers what is the fastest growing and they should be able to steer you to them but of course I'm sure you will want to having many different ones in some areas for their scenic beauty. In the beginning anything that starts to grow outside of your fence, on either side, take the shoot and weave it into your wire. After you have established what you want then you can prune back any new growth that is heading into your property anything that is growing laterally let it grow and create a thick border. On the outside if there is a roadway or a good neighbor who doesn't wqant a beautiful flower growing on their land just prune by hand as the new growth is very soft and easy to cut and the thorns are not bad. A good old weed wacker with a metal blade will do the job in a jiffy and you don't have to get close to it. New growth is very delicate and soft wood and simple to deal with. Same goes for the top if you want to keep it at shoulder high then just go at it from both sides with the weed wacker and you can keep it well under control. Otherwise you can let it go on top and it will put up big beautiful branches for a while and then when they cascade down you can cut them then and have a nice high border that no one can see into or over. Good luck and good thoughts for your design that a dozer bladed Ford would not touch Forever

This is really important guys and I am very happy to have your ideas and hope you can guide me with just a few more answers and offer other suggestions you may have. The shade cloth is a good idea and I think that would work well, but am even more interested in understanding bougainvillea as it would create a more scenic border. Is it correct bougainvillea can survive on its own without care here including making it through the dry season without water? Is there a certain variety to look for that is most suitable to a hedge or are they all pretty much the same? And what will it take to trim such a massive hedge to keep it contained?

What I am thinking of now is 2M concrete posts buried .5M meaning a 1.5M tall fence with barb wire on 20cm intervals. Plant bougainvillea on the inside of the fence. And furthermore move the fence 2M inside the perimeter of the property border so the bougainvillea has room to spread outside the fence without encroaching on neighbors property or roads. The concrete posts establishes the property line (within 2M accuracy in this case) and the barb wire offers the final discouragement to anyone thinking they can hack their way in with a machete at a weak spot in the bougainvillea.

[slapout]

Another fence story. The great grandpa and his neighbor did not get along (no one could remember why) but each one put up a fence on their land that adjoined (1/2 mile) The fence was 1 meter in from property line so there was a 2 meter walkway between the fences. Both properties were passed down twice to succeeding generations and the fences remained, and are probably still there.

[farmerjo]

The bamboo stick and plastic bag is the local way of saying stay off and dont take eg pile of rice straw.

The only negative of the vine is if your road is easy accesable you may have locals on motorbikes shining torches and shooting at it for food.

The postive i see when established would look nice.

[joker7]

We have the plastic bag fence seems to work a treet. Is also used as a market for your land so your neighbours dont try to encroach.

If you look at it the other way - if you put a great big wall up then this may stir a bit of interest into what is actually over the wall and thus have a negative affect on what your trying to achieve and attract more of the people you want to keep out !!

[jvs]

I have bouganvilla around most of the land here,most of it is now three years old and nothing can pass true it.The first hedge i planted was planted about a meter apart and that is leaving some open spaces for awhile,the latter ones are about 30 cm apart and are about a meter high now and a meter thick.The cows will eat the young leafs and the flowers but will not touch the older wood.A great fence and beautiful to look at.

[billd766]

My wife used to have about 5 rai up here and she lived in BKK but came back from time to time. she found one time that the neighbour had moved 2 meters onto her land. Not much but 2 metres x 400 metres (the length of the plot is 1/2 a rai.

She took him to the puyai ban and won the land back and several years later but the neighbours plot. She/we now have 10 rai and we built a barbed wire fence all the way around it about 10 years ago. Through age and neglect (and wire cutters on my part) there are large gaps in it and sometimes but not often people will come in and ask if they can pick stuff which is obviously falling off the trees and sometimes the forest rangers will come through from the national park at the top boundary.

We haven't shut the gate in years and cannot now even if we wanted to as I relaid the drive over the runner.

Most people up here are honest and friendly and so far in 8 years I don't think anything has been stolen even though my shed and workshop are always unlocked.

I guess we must be lucky or have good people living nearby.

[Nawtier]

Electric......

[happyjune]

The other reason for the fence is to clearly define the property border as this tambon has no chanote nor ns3.

I think Ford has some very good points, you may also want a few cement sticks in as your site would not have been Gov surveyed, high risk of loosing 2m down the track, a good thread..

[Canada]

We have the plastic bag fence seems to work a treet. Is also used as a market for your land so your neighbours dont try to encroach.

If you look at it the other way - if you put a great big wall up then this may stir a bit of interest into what is actually over the wall and thus have a negative affect on what your trying to achieve and attract more of the people you want to keep out !!

A tall wall with 3 barking freerunning pitbulls seems to keep interest down in our our place. We also employ a local gardener and are easy to get along with. We are bordered with water on 2 sides, a road on another and an orchard on the fourth side so our dogs don't really bother anyone other than people who want to know what is inside. The wall is great as it is only a rai. Larger peices would require a better paln as walls are expensive.. I like the barbed wire and bougainwhatever idea.