The Child Prostitution Problem In Thailand

[scorecard]

From the tone of the post, speaking of "blame" for Thai cultural sex practices, and the link to a religious website, seems they are using the child sex hot button to appose prostitution in general.

I agree and even when Thailand was wide open with prostitution everywhere, have never seen "10 or 12 year old girls" selling themselves in Thai brothers or anywhere else for that matter.

While you may not have witnessed it (neither have I), this does not mean that the sexual abuse of children is absent from Thailand. Tragically it does exist and on a scale that few of us can comprehend. Child abuse is not just a "hot button" issue, it is a fact of life in LOS.

Several times over many years Thai friends have mentioned that there are nondescript places everywhere in Thailand where typically high school boys / tech student boys go in groups and pay 100 / 200Baht for the group, 5 minutes each or something similar, for mostly underage girls.

[Travel2003]

From the tone of the post, speaking of "blame" for Thai cultural sex practices, and the link to a religious website, seems they are using the child sex hot button to appose prostitution in general.

I agree and even when Thailand was wide open with prostitution everywhere, have never seen "10 or 12 year old girls" selling themselves in Thai brothers or anywhere else for that matter.

While you may not have witnessed it (neither have I), this does not mean that the sexual abuse of children is absent from Thailand. Tragically it does exist and on a scale that few of us can comprehend. Child abuse is not just a "hot button" issue, it is a fact of life in LOS.

Several times over many years Thai friends have mentioned that there are nondescript places everywhere in Thailand where typically high school boys / tech student boys go in groups and pay 100 / 200Baht for the group, 5 minutes each or something similar, for mostly underage girls.

If it is so common knowledge about these groups and underage girls, I kind of have a hard time believing it.

Of course you cant prove it, and I cant prove it does not exist.

Still, such common knowledge is surely something even the normally very corrupt Police would stamp down on.

[IanForbes]

A point everybody is missing . Child prostitution is minicsule in the farang population ,compared with the Chinese -Thai group. Where it is substantial. There are cultural reasons why the Chinese -Thais like very young girls. Primarily , they are trafficked from the North , as they will not touch "dark skin" ladies, only white skin.Although prostitution is very evident in certain places for farang, it is still quite small , compared with prostitution for the Thai community.Which is everywhere in Thailand, yes all over Thailand

That was my experience as well. A group of us tried to help one time and we were stymied by local authorities who had their hands firmly in the market. But, this is basically a farang forum where we have little or no control over what happens in Thailand. All we can do is offer assistence whenever it presents itself.

And, there IS a difference between the true kiddy diddler group of men, and the men who prey on the young, teenage girls who either run away from home, or are sent off by their parents to earn a living anyway they can. There is a big difference between a 16 year old girl who by choice has been living on the street since she was 12, and some child of 13 who is working in a mafia run brothel after being sold into sexual slavery by her parents.

It's a sad situation in any case, but there is very little a farang can do about it. Try being a white knight in shining armour in Thailand and you surely WILL get stung... either by the girl herself or the people manipulating her.

[F1fanatic]

Of course they won't! How many local women do you know that had children at 16? Quite a few.... Its accepted here.

Let's be honest, most 20 year old Thai women look like children compared to Western women. What does that say about the men that find them attractive?

I find the pretended horror v hypocritical.

Its only a problem when it involves children - and it would be nice to think that the government is doing everything to stop them being 'used'. Unfortunately as long as their parents are happy to sell them, nothing will change....

[Travel2003]

what is considered as underage in Thailand.

As far as I know, it varies from country to country.

[Ulysses G.]

Several times over many years Thai friends have mentioned that there are nondescript places everywhere in Thailand where typically high school boys / tech student boys go in groups and pay 100 / 200Baht for the group, 5 minutes each or something similar, for mostly underage girls.

It was somewhat true 20 years ago - there were some underage girls - but - in general - not true anymore.

[Travel2003]

what is considered as underage in Thailand.

As far as I know, it varies from country to country.

Found something myself, on Wiki.

Not sure how correct.

Thailand

The age of consent in Thailand is 15 (with the below caveat) as specified by article 279 of the Thai Criminal Code. The current legislation applies to all regardless of gender and/or sexual orientation.

However parts of the Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act, which disallow any sexual contact with prostitutes under the age of 18, are widely interpreted by some local authorities to cover sexual acts classed as "obscenity for personal gratification". Also from the Penal Code Amendment Act of 1997 Section 283bis, having sex with a child under 18 is a compoundable offense even with the consent of that person. The parent or the child may file charges against the other side if he or she later regrets his or her own action. This ostensibly makes the Thai unfettered age of consent 18.

A high profile example of this application of the law was a statutory rape charge filed against the lead singer of the Thai band Big Ass for allegedly having had sex with a (then) 16 year old girl. The charge was filed by the girl after the singer refused to take responsibility for her baby. The singer has since been cleared of being the baby's father due to the results of a paternity test and he received 2 years suspended sentence.[62][63]

Half the European countries have 14 and 15.

One can have sex with a 17 year old here, but if she is paid it is illegal. She can be paid after she is 18.

So clearly the number in regards to what is considered child prostitution can be manipulated as one wishes.

[kerryk]

Several times over many years Thai friends have mentioned that there are nondescript places everywhere in Thailand where typically high school boys / tech student boys go in groups and pay 100 / 200Baht for the group, 5 minutes each or something similar, for mostly underage girls.

It was somewhat true 20 years ago - there were some underage girls - but - in general - not true anymore.

If you define underage as being under 12 I think you will find that the people who complain about it or start threads about it have never seen it in Thailand. They quote old NGO stories about it. Who knows why they like to talk about it.

[Ulysses G.]

As I said before, I have never seen girls even close to that young doing sex work in Thailand.

[mogoso]

It's the numbers that bother me. The realities would say there are children being exploited horribly by adults and they (the adults) should be sought and prosecuted. But 800,000 having sex up to 20-30 times per day. Even at 10 times per day it would add up to 8,000,000 visits per day in a country of 65,000,000 or 1 outta every eight people going to where ever the kids are. Whatever the numbers are they are high, even if it's only one child, but the numbers aren't what are given in the article.

[moe666]

Its not the numbers its the twits who use this stuff to fund raise and line their own pockets, when they should know what they are spouting is total rubbish. Its a lie and a dam_n lie at that. Thailand has a bad reputation as it is but the country doesn't need totally false info being thrown out their to line the pocket of some twits who know nothing.

That feels better

[IanForbes]

It's the numbers that bother me. The realities would say there are children being exploited horribly by adults and they (the adults) should be sought and prosecuted. But 800,000 having sex up to 20-30 times per day. Even at 10 times per day it would add up to 8,000,000 visits per day in a country of 65,000,000 or 1 outta every eight people going to where ever the kids are. Whatever the numbers are they are high, even if it's only one child, but the numbers aren't what are given in the article.

And that is precisely one of the problems. When groups with an agenda start making up wild numbers it throws out any chance of concerned people, who actually have a brain, wanting to help. That stands true with any of the so called civil rights groups, and environment groups as well.

[Mossfinn]

One can have sex with a 17 year old here, but if she is paid it is illegal. She can be paid after she is 18.

Are you sure? Paid after 18, I thought prostitution was illegal in Thailand.

[Mossfinn]

And, there IS a difference between the true kiddy diddler group of men, and the men who prey on the young, teenage girls who either run away from home, or are sent off by their parents to earn a living anyway they can. There is a big difference between a 16 year old girl who by choice has been living on the street since she was 12, and some child of 13 who is working in a mafia run brothel after being sold into sexual slavery by her parents.

And what is the difference?

The girls are young, vulnerable and afraid. Symptoms and causes may be different, the results just the same.

[Beetlejuice]

And, there IS a difference between the true kiddy diddler group of men, and the men who prey on the young, teenage girls who either run away from home, or are sent off by their parents to earn a living anyway they can. There is a big difference between a 16 year old girl who by choice has been living on the street since she was 12, and some child of 13 who is working in a mafia run brothel after being sold into sexual slavery by her parents.

And what is the difference?

The girls are young, vulnerable and afraid. Symptoms and causes may be different, the results just the same.

You are right.

A child is a child and there can be no justifications as to why it is OK to have sex with a minor.

Exploiting a child for sexual purposes is rape, pure and simple.

[Mossfinn]

By choice living on the street, yup, that would be my choice every time.

[Tokay]

Pattaya has no shortage of under 15 year old prostitutes. Some work the bars with their friends/sisters/cousins/ ID, but many work the beach and through an older girl. They are easy to spot if you have your eyes open and are aware of the situation.

I also know around Thailand a lot of the very young girls are generally for sale to Thai men. Most of them are young Lao / Burmese girls, depending on the local. Often in brothels owned by police.

But having said all of that, unless you are made aware and a few were pointed out to you, you probably wouldn't notice. Though, if you wanted to find them, as many NGOs do, they are very easy to find. As to the actual numbers in the reports... no idea. But it is a huge problem.

[IanForbes]

And, there IS a difference between the true kiddy diddler group of men, and the men who prey on the young, teenage girls who either run away from home, or are sent off by their parents to earn a living anyway they can. There is a big difference between a 16 year old girl who by choice has been living on the street since she was 12, and some child of 13 who is working in a mafia run brothel after being sold into sexual slavery by her parents.

And what is the difference?

The girls are young, vulnerable and afraid. Symptoms and causes may be different, the results just the same.

The difference is that the young ones who live on the street by choice are neither vulnerable nor afraid. They are like wiley street rats and usually work in gangs for protection. The ones owned by the mafia are afraid and have no rights at all. The Girl-women on the street know they have power over men and they take pride in using it. They aren't much different than the little hotties back home who used their bodies to lord it over the teen age boys who were pawns in the girl's hands. Women have ALWAYS had power over men and they've always used it to their advantage. What is amazing is how they have hoodwinked everyone into thinking how sweet and innocent they are. I learned what I know about them by talking to the street girls who live in Angeles City, Philippines. I doubt if they are any different that the Thai girls in Bangkok or other big cities in Thailand. Farangs don't run into them because they work the Thai trade where they don't have to speak English.

However, I do agree that the results are the same. Unfortunately, there is little or nothing the farangs can do about it in Thailand.

[kerryk]

Pattaya has no shortage of under 15 year old prostitutes. Some work the bars with their friends/sisters/cousins/ ID, but many work the beach and through an older girl. They are easy to spot if you have your eyes open and are aware of the situation.

I also know around Thailand a lot of the very young girls are generally for sale to Thai men. Most of them are young Lao / Burmese girls, depending on the local. Often in brothels owned by police.

But having said all of that, unless you are made aware and a few were pointed out to you, you probably wouldn't notice. Though, if you wanted to find them, as many NGOs do, they are very easy to find. As to the actual numbers in the reports... no idea. But it is a huge problem.

Maybe you are a lot smarter than I am. Maybe you have been around Thailand a lot longer. I got here the first time in 1970. But I have to tell you I know very well two women who are both 22 years of age. I know their families and children. No one would think they were over 15 years old unless you knew them. I have taught 5000 Thai high school girls. Some look 20 and some look 12. That is the nature of Thai women especially if they are short in stature.

How on earth do you know the age of all these underage hookers in Pattaya? Do you know the families? If you don't know the families of the ladies you are going on your own intuition.

What you are pointing out to everyone is that you have not been in country for very long. Some Thai women look young until 25 or so.

You are just guessing. Very young looking Thai women realize they have a marketing edge in some businesses and they exploit it.

Be accurate and state, “to my uneducated eye and with no factual information to back up what I am saying I think it is a huge problem.”

In my own unofficial survey of go go bars in Pattaya I found 97% of the employees over the age of 20. And I will bet anyone I can back that up with factual data on any night in Pattaya. And that is a fact not some speculation of a short time visitor to Thailand.

[meom]

In my own unofficial survey of go go bars in Pattaya I found 97% of the employees over the age of 20. And I will bet anyone I can back that up with factual data on any night in Pattaya. And that is a fact not some speculation of a short time visitor to Thailand.

I guess the same holds true for the gogo’s in Cowboy and Nana where the majority of employees are over 20.

Sometimes I wonder how many of those started in the trade at a much younger age but I don’t really want to know because it makes you feel kinda sad and in a way it makes you realize that paid sex ain’t that great after all knowing all the shit that’s going on behind the scenes.

[Beetlejuice]

The underage prostitutes start off in Pattaya and Bangkok.

Then when they are in they`re 20s and early 30s they work openly in the bars at Pattaya and Bangkok.

Later when they reach the age of 39 plus and they become over the hill, then they move on and work in the bars at Chiang Mai and once they get to grandma stage, then they put them out in the grazing fields of Chiang Mai`s massage parlours.

It`s true I tell you. If you don`t believe me go and see for yourselves.

[kerryk]

In my own unofficial survey of go go bars in Pattaya I found 97% of the employees over the age of 20. And I will bet anyone I can back that up with factual data on any night in Pattaya. And that is a fact not some speculation of a short time visitor to Thailand.

I guess the same holds true for the gogo’s in Cowboy and Nana where the majority of employees are over 20.

Sometimes I wonder how many of those started in the trade at a much younger age but I don’t really want to know because it makes you feel kinda sad and in a way it makes you realize that paid sex ain’t that great after all knowing all the shit that’s going on behind the scenes.

I guess it depends on who you hang around. The old crows I know all seem to have started in their 30's after a life of hard work either on the farm or in a sewing sweatshop. The only time I get exposed to a young woman is when their daughters come to town after a young man has run out on twins and try to earn a living.

Mom usually finds them a job because she has a realistic view of the alternatives.

My experience with these young women through their mothers points out the largest problem they face is sending money home instead of blowing it on young Thai guys in Pattaya bars. A number of times I paid the ransom for their ID cards that were held by the bar because they skipped out on their bar tab after entertaining the gik all night.

The sad reality is young women like to party and not take care of their responsibilities and that is a far greater problem than any kind of slavery.

You doubt me? Read some Thai and explore Hi5 for a while.

[meom]

^

No doubt about the money thing.

The story always goes how girls go work in BKK, Pattaya etc. so they can take care of their family back home and I’m sure some do but the majority seem to live a happy go lucky lifestyle with money going out as fast as it comes in.

Until they hook-up with a Farang after which family needs suddenly become much more pressing.

[Travel2003]

One can have sex with a 17 year old here, but if she is paid it is illegal. She can be paid after she is 18.

Are you sure? Paid after 18, I thought prostitution was illegal in Thailand.

The "Entertainment Places Act of 1966", still in effect today, makes it possible for Thais to render "special services". This is done, for example, by establishing such places as massage parlors where men come and look at women, who are sitting separated by a glass wall, and can pick and choose whom they want. The women come to the men's hotel room and massage them, but, in reality do more than that. It is usually left for the customer to decide what kind of special service he really wants, and because of that such establishments are able to avoid being designated as (illegal) brothels.

This act was designed to pave the way for brothels to be legalized under the guise of massage parlours, bars, night-clubs, tea-houses, etc.

The "Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act of 1996" outlawed the hiring of prostitutes under the age of 18, as well as people associating in prostitution establishments for the purpose of prostitution; the latter provision does not appear to be enforced.

[Daewoo]

These reports seem to always come back to some Western NGO - usually religious - pressing the buttons back home to raise funds and keep themselves in a job. They conveiniently don't report the fact that involvment of Western men in this is very limited, because Western donors would see the behaviour of Thai/other nationals as the business of their own government and societies. The fund then drives the NGOs to focus and the tiny problem of Westerners, and they always miss 99.99% of the problem.

My version of the facts;

I have never seen an underage girl working in a place targetting Western men. I have seen one young girl working as a drinks girl, but the Thai owner denied she was available for other services (I didn't believe him, and told him that he would never have my patronage again).

I have often seen underage girls working in places targetting Thai men in rural Thailand - mostly Hostess/Karaoke places, that are the only places open late at night selling alcohol. I haven't been to places targetting other Asian men, but I have been told that they are well stocked with underage girls. I haven't been to any place targetting gay men, but I assume it is simillar to the hetro industry.

Anyone who has been to Udon knows the large number of trafficed Lao/Burmese children on offer in Soi 7. No way they exist for Western clientel. No way the Thai Authorities don't know.

My thoughts;

I believe if a place, targetting Western men, had underage girls on offer, it would be quickly shut down as the patrons ran straight to the authorities/NGOs/Their Consulates and stopped patronising the place.

Western culture is strongly against the exploitation of children, and violence against children. It is the reason Western NGOs would see families in India starve rather than let their children work in a sweatshop. It is also the reason that Paedophiles in Western countries usually prey within the circles of family and friends, and it is deep underground. Asian culture does not have the same reaction, witness also the high child labour in China.

I assume that Western Paedophiles head straight to the Thai/Asian places, the details of which they find out through their deep underground networks.

Unfortunately, little of this scare-mongering by Western NGOs actually does anything to stop this abuse, because Western NGOs have little power over Thai world. so while many good hearted people think they are helping by throwing money at this, they are achieving very little.

I still wish them good luck, because one Western Paedophile in Jail is still better than none.

[IanForbes]

KerryK and Daewoo touched on two very important, but separate issues. I agree with both. Teenagers and young women like to party. So what else is new. Teenagers (male and female) also like sex. So what else is new. Many young women decide that if they are going to have sex then they might as well get paid for it. It is as simple as that. However, that is far different than young girls being sold into sexual slavery by their parents. My best guess is the young girls in that trade come from Laos, Cambodia or Burma to service Thai men, and that is why Thai authorities turn a blind eye to it.

[F1fanatic]

KerryK and Daewoo touched on two very important, but separate issues. I agree with both. Teenagers and young women like to party. So what else is new. Teenagers (male and female) also like sex. So what else is new. Many young women decide that if they are going to have sex then they might as well get paid for it. It is as simple as that. However, that is far different than young girls being sold into sexual slavery by their parents. My best guess is the young girls in that trade come from Laos, Cambodia or Burma to service Thai men, and that is why Thai authorities turn a blind eye to it.

You're kidding right??

Yes, teenagers and young women like to party. Western teenagers are also v interested in sex, but the girls generally only actually have sex with someone they find attractive! It would never cross the average Western girl's mind to get paid for it!!

As far as I can see, sex is not considered v important here (unlike in the West), so Thai girls more frequently end up having sex at a younger age.

I can only assume this is why some children are sold into sexual slavery - the sex is not important, the money is....

[kerryk]

KerryK and Daewoo touched on two very important, but separate issues. I agree with both. Teenagers and young women like to party. So what else is new. Teenagers (male and female) also like sex. So what else is new. Many young women decide that if they are going to have sex then they might as well get paid for it. It is as simple as that. However, that is far different than young girls being sold into sexual slavery by their parents. My best guess is the young girls in that trade come from Laos, Cambodia or Burma to service Thai men, and that is why Thai authorities turn a blind eye to it.

You're kidding right??

Yes, teenagers and young women like to party. Western teenagers are also v interested in sex, but the girls generally only actually have sex with someone they find attractive! It would never cross the average Western girl's mind to get paid for it!!

As far as I can see, sex is not considered v important here (unlike in the West), so Thai girls more frequently end up having sex at a younger age.

I can only assume this is why some children are sold into sexual slavery - the sex is not important, the money is....

In 1840 it was estimated there were 80,000 prostitutes in London. At the same it was estimated that 10% of the female population of New York were prostitutes.

Currently the Criminal Justice Institute, Inc. estimated that there were 450,000 prostitutes of all ages, leading to an estimate of 90,000 to 112,500 juvenile prostitutes in the U.S. A New York City shelter president estimated that there were “tens of thousands” of juvenile prostitutes across the nation.

The 1995 Progress of Nations report by UNICEF(http://www.unicef.org/pon95/progtoc.html)

offers a “guesstimate” of 300,000 juvenile prostitutes in the U.S. under the age of 18.

The FBI’s Uniform Crime Report data analyzed by Snyder and Sickmund (2006) shows that 1,400 juveniles were arrested nationally in 2003 for prostitution and commercialized vice.

[kdc1899]

From the tone of the post, speaking of "blame" for Thai cultural sex practices, and the link to a religious website, seems they are using the child sex hot button to appose prostitution in general.

I agree and even when Thailand was wide open with prostitution everywhere, have never seen "10 or 12 year old girls" selling themselves in Thai brothers or anywhere else for that matter.

While you may not have witnessed it (neither have I), this does not mean that the sexual abuse of children is absent from Thailand. Tragically it does exist and on a scale that few of us can comprehend. Child abuse is not just a "hot button" issue, it is a fact of life in LOS.

It seems child pros are everywhere all over the world. Folks are not just having sex earlier, they are having porn movie type sex at 13 years old and such. It's probably the internet and smart phones that introduce preteens to such movies and in turn make it seem normal to COF (etc).

The fact that so many young girls make a decison to make money doing what they have been doing for years already is not suprising.

What's suprising is that the "civilized first world" folks are still projecting their local issues on Thailand.

When Thailand actually rolls out nationwide 3G and 95% of their kids have internet capable smart phones then in about 10 years after that expect lots of underage hookers here.

[IanForbes]

KerryK and Daewoo touched on two very important, but separate issues. I agree with both. Teenagers and young women like to party. So what else is new. Teenagers (male and female) also like sex. So what else is new. Many young women decide that if they are going to have sex then they might as well get paid for it. It is as simple as that. However, that is far different than young girls being sold into sexual slavery by their parents. My best guess is the young girls in that trade come from Laos, Cambodia or Burma to service Thai men, and that is why Thai authorities turn a blind eye to it.

You're kidding right??

Yes, teenagers and young women like to party. Western teenagers are also v interested in sex, but the girls generally only actually have sex with someone they find attractive! It would never cross the average Western girl's mind to get paid for it!!

As far as I can see, sex is not considered v important here (unlike in the West), so Thai girls more frequently end up having sex at a younger age.

I can only assume this is why some children are sold into sexual slavery - the sex is not important, the money is....

No, I'm not kidding.

You are right when you say the AVERAGE western teenager, but that is because the average western teenager comes from a middle class family, which makes up the bulk of the population. Throw poverty into the mix and see how it changes. Go into the ghettos of USA and see how it changes. There are lots of black and hispanic girls who sell their bodies for little more than some booze, a joint and a package of cigarettes. It is an entirely different world to the one most of us live in. It's a lot like that on the native First Nations reservations in Canada. I hear all the stories from the native guys I know.

And, when I was going to the University of BC I knew several girls who were working as part time call girls. And, those gals DID come from middle and upper middle class families. But, the girls got off on having power over men, and the higher life style that more money provides. I've got lots of pictures to back up what I say, but I won't post them here.

The prostitution scene in North America is actually worse than the one in Thailand. Except for the high price call girls and escort services, I would estimate that 90% of the prostitution in North America is involved with the drug scene. Pimps seduce the run-away teenagers and get them hooked on drugs, and then the girls have to sell their bodies to get their next fix. It is ugly and only getting worse. I don't remember any ot that when I was a teenager.