New Work Permit Requirements From The Labor Department

[sydneyjed]

And there may lie a problem,as if everybody suddenly starts claiming they have a degree(even though they clearly do not)there's a high likelyhood that there will be more brain surgeons running around here than anywhere else in the world!!You'd have to be 'blind Jonny' to miss what will happen!

There is no requirement for a degree to get a WP.

If one however claims to have a degree then one has to be able to show the proper certs showing it.

Easy as pie.

So if its not a requirement then just dont show one..

If true hardly worth the urgent thread and breaking news email alert.

[george]

It would have been very surprising indeed if they would have made it faster, more transparent, more fair (like allowing foreigners to access the social system if they pay taxes or to allow 100% ownership if we already have to come up with 100% of the money) - but NO, everything just gets more complicated and xenophobic.

You have full access to the social security system, if you pay social tax which is compulsory for all employees now, including company directors since last year. You get a social security card which you can use for medical treatment and you can claim a pension with at least 15 years' contribution in the unlikely event there is anything left in the fund to pay out by then.

There are other beautiful countries around which welcome foreign capital (be it financial or intellectual capital) with open arms, and where at least 50% of the population can speak more English than 'elo weh do you cam fom'.

It is pretty obvious which elements of Thai society you associate with. You would probably find conversation with them easier, if you troubled to learn the language.

If you are a director in Thai company you can not enroll in Social security!

[Mario2008]

Sorry to dissapoint, but this is not a "you are not wanted thread" in Thailand" thread.

1 post deleted as off topic.

[CosmicSurfer]

Please Clarify.

Do all Work Permits require a University Degree ? I have never had to show in the past (I dont have one). I am Married to a Thai and wish to apply for O Visa, how does this apply to me. I would like to come see you to get this sorted out. Please call me 086780 3801. MB

To clarify: All work permits require an education certificate. They did not specify that the minimum must be a BA or BS but that you must show an education certificate. Apologies if the original post was unclear, it should have read : eg: BA, BS, etc.

Additionally, please note that the office is closed after 6 p.m. so any participation by us would take place when we are open, so apologies to anyone who felt that their questions were not answered after that, everyone was at home.

@ Sunbelt....

SO.... To be ABSOLUTELY Clear... you are saying that ALL Work Permits, whether for a Teacher, a Business man, or a Volunteer,...

Whether it's for an Employee or an Owner,...

Whether it's a BOI or Amity company...

Whether a Beer Bar Owner/Operator or Executive for a Multi-National Corporation,...

Whether the applicant has a "B" or an "O Married" Visa...

Whether in Thailand 6 Months or 16 Years....

Whether it's a first Work Permit.. or a 16th...

ALL Work Permits are effected... EVERYBODY needs a University Degree or Post Graduate Diploma!!!!

NO Grandfathered Permits allowed without a degree or diploma!!!

Without Exception!

Is this a correct Statement? Or are there any specific exemptions available???

And finally... Does an "Education Certificate" include a High-School Diploma???

Because, by definition... a High-School Graduation Diploma is also an "Education Certificate" !

Thank you,

CS

[tombkk]

It would have been very surprising indeed if they would have made it faster, more transparent, more fair (like allowing foreigners to access the social system if they pay taxes or to allow 100% ownership if we already have to come up with 100% of the money) - but NO, everything just gets more complicated and xenophobic.

You have full access to the social security system, if you pay social tax which is compulsory for all employees now, including company directors since last year. You get a social security card which you can use for medical treatment and you can claim a pension with at least 15 years' contribution in the unlikely event there is anything left in the fund to pay out by then.

There are other beautiful countries around which welcome foreign capital (be it financial or intellectual capital) with open arms, and where at least 50% of the population can speak more English than 'elo weh do you cam fom'.

It is pretty obvious which elements of Thai society you associate with. You would probably find conversation with them easier, if you troubled to learn the language.

If you are a director in Thai company you can not enroll in Social security!

If you are working, i.e. be a Managing Director, of course you can. Anybody who works (including foreigners with a work permit) is obliged to enroll in Social Security.

Of course, if you are just a director and don't work, you won't need a work permit and won't qualify for Social Security. Is that any different in other countries? In which country are you entitled to Social Security just because you are a shareholder in a company?

[tombkk]

It would have been very surprising indeed if they would have made it faster, more transparent, more fair (like allowing foreigners to access the social system if they pay taxes or to allow 100% ownership if we already have to come up with 100% of the money) - but NO, everything just gets more complicated and xenophobic.

This is one of the reason why next year, I will stop doing business here, I will fire my 3 Thai employees and luckily stop having to pay the ridiculous prices for all the necessary processes of applications, 'renewals', visa runs (which I still had to do for reasons no one could explain to me) every 3 months etc. etc. etc.

Thailand to the Thais - there you go.

Thailand, country of the Free - what a cynical joke.

There are other beautiful countries around which welcome foreign capital (be it financial or intellectual capital) with open arms, and where at least 50% of the population can speak more English than 'elo weh do you cam fom'.

Good bye then.

[tombkk]

I have had WP and been a Civil Servant working for Ministry of Interior and years ago worked illegally as teacher (before grad school). once recently... one woman officer strangely asked to see my proof of education on a WP renewal. It was the 'interview' part and the company lawyer representing me looked baffled as did I. After a long silence I asked if there was any way around it cause it was not easy to do and in fact had never been asked for before. She said "No. You must show proof of education (BA and MBA).

I went back to the office and took my framed diplomas off the wall and went back in and put them on her desk. They covered the desk. We all laughed and she instructed some girl to make photocopies. Then I was granted the renewal and we left. Sometimes they even make up whatever rules they feel like right there on the spot, depending on the horoscope, perhaps.

You could have had some common sense and brought copies of the diplomas you claimed to have when you renewed your work permit though. It would have saved everybody a lot of time, and the Thai government officials the polite laughs. They didn't make up the rules, they were just friendly to you, give them kudos.

[tamsom]

Obviously, there are many intelligent and hard-working people that have posted on this thread that feel frustrated. The only way for change to occur in this society with reference to those who have chosen to live here, is by slow and dedicated means. One must endeavour to learn how to speak the language, and with this gift comes a different way of thinking. Always dress formally and act humble when you are dealing with Thai officialdom. I still see people at immigration in shorts and flip flops. They will extend your visa amigo, but they wonder why you are dressed in such a manner. Thailand is a top tier second world country or maybe a bottom tier first world country; all depends on said criteria. Their arguments about land/ business ownership are archaic. If you are open you are stronger, in my humble opinion. I beg all those out there to chip away at the wall we immigrants face. Try for permanent residence and citizenship, make sure your name goes on the building if buying a house because your spouse owns the land. Thailand is a hierarchical society...everything stems from that. Future generations of immigrants will benefit from what we do now. Quiet military strategy will make us strong!

Adios

[Ulysses G.]

To clarify: All work permits require an education certificate. They did not specify that the minimum must be a BA or BS but that you must show an education certificate.

@ Sunbelt....

SO.... To be ABSOLUTELY Clear... you are saying that ALL Work Permits, whether for a Teacher, a Business man, or a Volunteer,...

Whether it's for an Employee or an Owner,...

Whether it's a BOI or Amity company...

Whether a Beer Bar Owner/Operator or Executive for a Multi-National Corporation,...

Whether the applicant has a "B" or an "O Married" Visa...

Whether in Thailand 6 Months or 16 Years....

Whether it's a first Work Permit.. or a 16th...

ALL Work Permits are effected... EVERYBODY needs a University Degree or Post Graduate Diploma!!!!

Sunbelt says above that there is no minimum requirement which would (normally) mean that a High School Diploma should suffice - (but, of course, TIT).

Edited June 24, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[CallumW]

So does this mean the end for uneducated oafs, who wouldn't be allowed to be anywhere near a classroom in their own country, coming here to "teach" English? Good riddance.

[sydneyjed]

Well in the ideal world and eyes of Thai Immigration and regulation ..maybe yes,but in the real world where CV's are open to wide spread manipulation on a world wide scale...keep dreaming!!

So does this mean the end for uneducated oafs, who wouldn't be allowed to be anywhere near a classroom in their own country, coming here to "teach" English? Good riddance.

[laurentbkk]

Well I guess our governments in western countries should do the same for Thais who enter usually as tourists and end up working in Asian restaurants or those who really want to work , after all there are no double pricing in Europe for Thais or Europeans ..they all pay the same , so for those work permits the law should be the same , in some countries after 10 years in the country you get 5 years residency, here every year its the same ,renewal of work permit ,visa etc ...and more money to be paid ! I think its time for the government here to tell if they still want to have foreigners or not. Be honest and kick us out if you dont want us .... Every time there is new papers needed etc ... BORING ... maybe justified but boring ...

[WithMarco]

Good bye then.

sorry but he's right, tell me of another country where an entrepreneur running a legal business and hiring local employees has

to make silly visa runs and being treated as second or third class citizen in order to have a work permit and all the other

paperwork needed for his company.

many farangs will sell their business to thai buyers and these businesses will go down the drain as the thai

are simply not cut to run a business targeting farangs, i've seen this scenario plenty of times, after all there's a good

reason if it's farangs opening bars and pubs and restaurants and not the thais.

i can't remember a single successful french restaurant or irish pub run by a Thai and guess why ...

i've met many farangs in vietnam and cambodia who moved from thailand and they're pretty happy, tourism is rising fast, and it's

a lot easier and safer to run a biz there.

Edited June 24, 2011 by WithMarco

[stingray]

So what happen if someone no have a dam BA degree or similas b.. s.. I'm from Switzerland and belebe me we have the best education system in the world. We don't have school degrees We learn a profession like cook, salesman or automecanic, or what ever. We do practizise this job for 4 years and We don't get a BA or Master degree for this. We gat a State Certificate of profession after 4 years of pracizise, if we pass the test.

So what happen if i can't get paperwork from my previous employer? Because i never worked for someone in the past 25 Years. I'm selfemployment already in Switzerland. The Employers or small companies i' worked for, when i was in the early 20ties, that's mean 30 Years ago, maybe not even still alive or not even exist anymore.

And if have to make a cifilis test every year to continue my WP, then my staff, i employ here in LOS, will have to make one as well to keep their job in my company. That's very easy!

Wat's this all about?

[sikishrory]

Here is the Easy answer I will go to the Labor Dept tomorrow and ask them. 2 min from place. then we can all know for sure.

please do it! and quote me so i get a email alert. i hate sifting through all this cr*p!

[ad61]

Obviously, there are many intelligent and hard-working people that have posted on this thread that feel frustrated. The only way for change to occur in this society with reference to those who have chosen to live here, is by slow and dedicated means. One must endeavour to learn how to speak the language, and with this gift comes a different way of thinking. Always dress formally and act humble when you are dealing with Thai officialdom. I still see people at immigration in shorts and flip flops. They will extend your visa amigo, but they wonder why you are dressed in such a manner. Thailand is a top tier second world country or maybe a bottom tier first world country; all depends on said criteria. Their arguments about land/ business ownership are archaic. If you are open you are stronger, in my humble opinion. I beg all those out there to chip away at the wall we immigrants face. Try for permanent residence and citizenship, make sure your name goes on the building if buying a house because your spouse owns the land. Thailand is a hierarchical society...everything stems from that. Future generations of immigrants will benefit from what we do now. Quiet military strategy will make us strong!

Adios

Totally agree with you tamson, spot on.

[Samuian]

So what happen if someone no have a dam BA degree or similas b.. s.. I'm from Switzerland and belebe me we have the best education system in the world. We don't have school degrees We learn a profession like cook, salesman or automecanic, or what ever. We do practizise this job for 4 years and We don't get a BA or Master degree for this. We gat a State Certificate of profession after 4 years of pracizise, if we pass the test.

So what happen if i can't get paperwork from my previous employer? Because i never worked for someone in the past 25 Years. I'm selfemployment already in Switzerland. The Employers or small companies i' worked for, when i was in the early 20ties, that's mean 30 Years ago, maybe not even still alive or not even exist anymore.

And if have to make a cifilis test every year to continue my WP, then my staff, i employ here in LOS, will have to make one as well to keep their job in my company. That's very easy!

Wat's this all about?

If you can explain it to the appropriate authorities, the way you did here - best in, as said before, the local language then they simply will make an exemption, which may require a statement regarding this matter from your embassy - out and over!

I was born, educated and job trained ind germany, there it is just the same, right now they are going to introduce the BA and MBA B_llshyte too! So next generation may have no problem with a wp in thailand if it still exist then as is....

[Arkady]

If you are working, i.e. be a Managing Director, of course you can. Anybody who works (including foreigners with a work permit) is obliged to enroll in Social Security.

Of course, if you are just a director and don't work, you won't need a work permit and won't qualify for Social Security. Is that any different in other countries? In which country are you entitled to Social Security just because you are a shareholder in a company?

There was a change made to Social Security rules last year. Previously directors could not be enrolled in the Social Security scheme. I am not sure what was the rationale but I suppose they were just the last class of employees to be included. It started with employees of companies employing more than 50, then more than 10, then every one except directors and now all employees without exception.

Tom is correct in saying that non-executive directors who don't receive a salary can't be enrolled for social tax, since they are not employees. However, the Labour Ministry takes the view that they do, in fact, need work permits. I know people who have had their PR applications rejected because they were non-executive directors of related companies that were not entered into their work permits. Immigration gave them the choice of voluntarily withdrawing their applications or being prosecuted by the Labour Ministry - guess which they chose!

Since you will not get a work permit for being only an unpaid non-executive director without another job, you should question whether it is a good idea to hold such a position at all, if you live in Thailand. On the other hand, the Revenue Department seems quite happy to accept audited accounts signed by foreign authorised directors without asking to see a copies of their work permits but who knows when that might suddenly change. Some banks will not open accounts for companies with a foreign authorised director as signatory, if he doesn't have a work permit.

[Arkady]

I am not sure what all the fuss is about on the educational credential issue. I remember that the same wording was there when I applied for my first WP in the late 80s and I dutifully included a copy of my degree in an obscure subject that was in no way related to my job but seemed to satisfy them. What is more surprising is that people travel across the world to work in a foreign land and don't bring copies of their educational credentials with them and that the Labour Ministry has apparently been accepting these incomplete applications. As Sunbelt has belatedly pointed out there is nothing in the wording of the new forms about degrees. They just state as they have done for decades that evidence of education and work experience is required and it doesn't seem unreasonable, if they have now decided to enforce the requirement.

[Arkady]

So what happen if someone no have a dam BA degree or similas b.. s.. I'm from Switzerland and belebe me we have the best education system in the world. We don't have school degrees We learn a profession like cook, salesman or automecanic, or what ever. We do practizise this job for 4 years and We don't get a BA or Master degree for this. We gat a State Certificate of profession after 4 years of pracizise, if we pass the test.

So what happen if i can't get paperwork from my previous employer? Because i never worked for someone in the past 25 Years. I'm selfemployment already in Switzerland. The Employers or small companies i' worked for, when i was in the early 20ties, that's mean 30 Years ago, maybe not even still alive or not even exist anymore.

And if have to make a cifilis test every year to continue my WP, then my staff, i employ here in LOS, will have to make one as well to keep their job in my company. That's very easy!

Wat's this all about?

Just ignore most of the drivel on this thread which was obviously intended to be sensational and get eyeballs. Follow the Labour Ministry's instructions which say nothing about any need to have a degree. Include a certified copy of your State Certificate with a certified translation into Thai, since I assume it is not in English. Then you are done.

[jegley23]

Just asking question about work related and syphilis.

My friend sign a 1 year contract in one of the intl. school in Bangkok, after working for 7 weeks, she was terminated because the school found out that she has a syphilis after doing a medical check up for work permit. The school ask her to resign than to terminate her but she cant get anything from the school. The question is , when you get a desease, the contract become invalid? What she will need to do now?

[animatic]

Essentially due to fear of what the new government will expect of them, the Labor Department in Surat Thani has ground to a halt, until a big wig comes and tells them what they can do, some time next Monday.

Meanwhile they do not dare so much as extended a work permit to match to the new regulations, so my Non-Im B will expire and start from scratch.

As if I haven't spent continuous legal work time here without a break.

A true Catch-22 situation. Years of continuous WP and Non-M B broken solely because the bureaucrats are too scared to make a decision.

It is mad as a hatter time in Thailand. So far this cock-up has cost me 7,000 baht and another 5k by tuesday.

[animatic]

Just asking question about work related and syphilis.

My friend sign a 1 year contract in one of the intl. school in Bangkok, after working for 7 weeks, she was terminated because the school found out that she has a syphilis after doing a medical check up for work permit. The school ask her to resign than to terminate her but she cant get anything from the school. The question is , when you get a desease, the contract become invalid? What she will need to do now?

Anywhere else I would say she has a suit against the school for firing her for having a medical condition. But this is Thailand and I doubt she has as much recourse.

I don't think this is right in any case.

She should have seen a private doctor and not the schools doctor... then she could have had treatment and then NOT have syphilis, no problem. It is a totally treatable disease and not communicable to students except via sexual contact.

Edited June 24, 2011 by animatic

[jdinasia]

---------- Update --------

I went to the MoL today to pick up my WP.

It was a 2 year renewal. I am not a teacher. The paperwork was dropped off on the day the changes were announced. I went and got a 100 baht medical check-up yesterday just in case.

I went in and got a queue number.

I sat down and was immediately called to a desk.

I handed the lady my recp't

She looked at it, got the paperwork and my book.

She said "2 years?"

I said "Yes"

She said "Six thousand baht"

I said something nice in Thai and handed her 6,000.

She wrote the extension info in my book. Handed the recpt for the cash to be countersigned

She handed me back the booklet and cash recpt. and answered her mobile.

I asked if that was all (in Thai)

She said "finished"

I left.

10 minutes of my life wasted

Edit --- I was never asked for anything else. I didn't show my passport again, I didn't give them the medical form that was not asked for.

Edited June 24, 2011 by jdinasia

[jegley23]

Just asking question about work related and syphilis.

My friend sign a 1 year contract in one of the intl. school in Bangkok, after working for 7 weeks, she was terminated because the school found out that she has a syphilis after doing a medical check up for work permit. The school ask her to resign than to terminate her but she cant get anything from the school. The question is , when you get a desease, the contract become invalid? What she will need to do now?

Anywhere else I would say she has a suit against the school for firing her for having a medical condition. But this is Thailand and I doubt she has as much recourse.

I don't think this is right in any case.

She should have seen a private doctor and not the schools doctor... then she could have had treatment and then NOT have syphilis, no problem. It is a totally treatable disease and not communicable to students except via sexual contact.

My friend told that all the teachers in that school will require to go only to one clinic and doctor, thats the school clinic and doctor. The school will not accept other medical certificate other than the school doctor will give it to them. Actually she didnt get the result, the clinic forward it to the school.

My friends want suit the school and she dont know how but she said she will ask some lawyer here in bangkok if she has a case. Do you think she has a case, because right now she is very confuse.

[cyborgx]

There is no requirement for a degree to get a WP.

If one however claims to have a degree then one has to be able to show the proper certs showing it.

Easy as pie.

Always has been a requirement

[NanLaew]

Just asking question about work related and syphilis.

My friend sign a 1 year contract in one of the intl. school in Bangkok, after working for 7 weeks, she was terminated because the school found out that she has a syphilis after doing a medical check up for work permit. The school ask her to resign than to terminate her but she cant get anything from the school. The question is , when you get a desease, the contract become invalid? What she will need to do now?

Anywhere else I would say she has a suit against the school for firing her for having a medical condition. But this is Thailand and I doubt she has as much recourse.

I don't think this is right in any case.

She should have seen a private doctor and not the schools doctor... then she could have had treatment and then NOT have syphilis, no problem. It is a totally treatable disease and not communicable to students except via sexual contact.

My friend told that all the teachers in that school will require to go only to one clinic and doctor, thats the school clinic and doctor. The school will not accept other medical certificate other than the school doctor will give it to them. Actually she didnt get the result, the clinic forward it to the school.

My friends want suit the school and she dont know how but she said she will ask some lawyer here in bangkok if she has a case. Do you think she has a case, because right now she is very confuse.

This one is a bit off topic but if having an STD is defined as one of the 'for cause' termination items in the employment contract, then she can be terminated for cause.

Having a preferred doctor or medical facility for pre-employment medicals is pretty much standard in the west and a most sensible approach by any business in Thailand, be it a commercial or educational. In my line of work, I require the medical examination to be done by an authorised doctor. Anything less means I am unemployable. In the US, my pre-employment medical was at a time and place prescribed by the company HR department and the results were sent directly to the company HR department, not to me.

When you think about the laughable 'medical certificate' requirement for a Thai driving license, it's nice to see at least one school making sure that they are screening job applicants as thoroughly as possible. Maybe a degree and transcripts can be bought on Kaosan Road but there's no way of cheating on the medical. It may be old-fashioned and a perceived violation of ones rights, civil liberties or whatever but if an employee has an STD, then there's questions about their morals; same as failing a drug and alcohol test. And if the employees position requires a higher moral standard, such as a teacher, then in this instance, the students best interests have been served.

Edited June 25, 2011 by NanLaew

[NanLaew]

There is no requirement for a degree to get a WP.

If one however claims to have a degree then one has to be able to show the proper certs showing it.

Easy as pie.

Always has been a requirement

What?

If the job you are applying for stipulates a degree and you have claim to have that degree, you are required to show proof when applying for the WP.

If the job you are applying for does not require a degree, then you can still apply for the job. However, the WP will be issued only upon furnishing acceptable proof of a stipulated minimum level of tertiary education. THIS DOES NOT NECESSARILY NEED TO BE A DEGREE! If you are applying for a non-degreed position and furnish a degree as proof of education, you may be over-qualified anyway. However, if you have 'O' levels, 'A' levels, a GED, a City & Guilds, some Swiss diploma of competency, a diploma from a beauty school, welding course or whatever the equivalent is from your homeland or country of tertiary education, that is what you need to show when applying for a WP.

Is that too difficult to understand?

Edited June 25, 2011 by NanLaew

[Geekfreaklover]

There is no requirement for a degree to get a WP.

If one however claims to have a degree then one has to be able to show the proper certs showing it.

Easy as pie.

Always has been a requirement

What?

If the job you are applying for stipulates a degree and you have claim to have that degree, you are required to show proof when applying for the WP.

If the job you are applying for does not require a degree, then you can still apply for the job. However, the WP will be issued only upon furnishing acceptable proof of a stipulated minimum level of tertiary education. THIS DOES NOT NECESSARILY NEED TO BE A DEGREE! If you are applying for a non-degreed position and furnish a degree as proof of education, you may be over-qualified anyway. However, if you have 'O' levels, 'A' levels, a GED, a City & Guilds, some Swiss diploma of competency, a diploma from a beauty school, welding course or whatever the equivalent is from your homeland or country of tertiary education, that is what you need to show when applying for a WP.

Is that too difficult to understand?

TAWP nailed it.

As did I early on in the thread.

Now think carefully, who remebers the word SUNBELT after this post?

Edited June 25, 2011 by Geekfreaklover

[sydneyjed]

Do Thai Immigration actually chase up and verify anyones degree when it is presented anyway?Would love to know that one if anyone out there can shed light?