New Work Permit Requirements From The Labor Department

[Africk78]

Here's an interesting riddle--would love it if someone could solve it for me--I am wrapping up fulfilling all requisites for obtaining a work permit to teach in Bangkok, but my employer states that I must present my university diploma, which I do not have. Obtaining a copy from my old university would be costly and time-consuming. I do have a copy of my teaching certificate (my diploma is for a B.A. in English, not Education), and I also have transcripts from my old uni which state that a degree was conferred upon me. I say this is suitable, but the Thai secretary at my school says it won't replace the diploma, which doesn't make sense to me. Can anyone with provide non-speculative advice on whether these documents will be sufficient, or is the actual diploma absolutely mandatory?

[Mario2008]

Believe they indeed want to see the diploma AND transcript. But your question might be better asked in the teaching forum.

[Soutpeel]

Here's an interesting riddle--would love it if someone could solve it for me--I am wrapping up fulfilling all requisites for obtaining a work permit to teach in Bangkok, but my employer states that I must present my university diploma, which I do not have. Obtaining a copy from my old university would be costly and time-consuming. I do have a copy of my teaching certificate (my diploma is for a B.A. in English, not Education), and I also have transcripts from my old uni which state that a degree was conferred upon me. I say this is suitable, but the Thai secretary at my school says it won't replace the diploma, which doesn't make sense to me. Can anyone with provide non-speculative advice on whether these documents will be sufficient, or is the actual diploma absolutely mandatory?

I believe the secretary is correct and they will want to see both the diploma & transcript, so better get in touch with your old Uni so you can start the "costly and time consuming" process....

[Africk78]

Nuts...well, regarding the aforementioned "costly and time consuming process" (about $75US and 6-8 weeks to arrive in Bangkok), perhaps it would be possible to get a degree verification letter instead?

[Soutpeel]

would be possible to get a degree verification letter instead?

Thats a question you would have to ask the DOL whether they would accept a letter while you are waiting for your your replacment dip

[Galong]

I just went through a mild battle with the social security department over this. I have been a director for close to a couple of decades. There was a rule made a couple of years ago stating that any company owner or director since then is not eligible for social security. The thought is that if you're a big boss you can buy your own insurance. HOWEVER, it's grandfather claused, so if you were a company owner/director before this law, you are not affected. It took my staff an hour to explain this to the new woman at the social security office here in Phuket. Everything is back to normal. I've got social security and the associated insurance again.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure it's not illegal to be HIV+ in Thailand. I know two people who are and who have work permits. I don't think the medical test is necessarily trying to sift out HIV+ people for exclusion.

[bluesofa]

I am also a director in my own company, and I pay into the social security fund.

With my current WP, the social security office told me about 4 years ago that the requirement for an employed director to register in the social security system had been made compulsory about 2 years previous to that.

I registered, pay into the social security system and have a card. I have used the card on half a dozen occasions to get hospital treatment & medication at no charge.

Once when I visited a hospital outside of my home province, I got a receipt for the payment and claimed it back at my local social security office when I got home. Took all of 20 minutes to get the cash refunded.

So the system does work.

Edited June 29, 2011 by ewan

[Misty]

If you are a director in Thai company you can not enroll in Social security!

George, I thought this too and challenged my accountant on it but she came back with the information that it was made compulsory for all executive directors to be enrolled in the scheme since last year. If you can provide a citation to prove this is not the case, I would appreciate it.

We checked with two sources on this point. The first, a Thai lawyer and the assistant legal director of an international firm, just came back with this response:

"We have checked with the Social Security Office and were advised that the Regulation still remains unchanged. It does not require the director of the Company to register the social security fund since the director is considered as the employer."

Still waiting response from the second source.

[Misty]

If you are a director in Thai company you can not enroll in Social security!

George, I thought this too and challenged my accountant on it but she came back with the information that it was made compulsory for all executive directors to be enrolled in the scheme since last year. If you can provide a citation to prove this is not the case, I would appreciate it.

We checked with two sources on this point. The first, a Thai lawyer and the assistant legal director of an international firm, just came back with this response:

"We have checked with the Social Security Office and were advised that the Regulation still remains unchanged. It does not require the director of the Company to register the social security fund since the director is considered as the employer."

Still waiting response from the second source.

Okay, we received an answer from our accountant, as follows:

"I checked with the social security officer, she confirmed that there's no change to the law. Company directors are not required to register for Social Security."

So no change, according to the Social Security Officers our lawyer and accountant talk to. Any possibilty that the SSO staff are not aware of a change, or that regulations to support a recent change haven't been written yet?

[tombkk]

If you are a director in Thai company you can not enroll in Social security!

George, I thought this too and challenged my accountant on it but she came back with the information that it was made compulsory for all executive directors to be enrolled in the scheme since last year. If you can provide a citation to prove this is not the case, I would appreciate it.

We checked with two sources on this point. The first, a Thai lawyer and the assistant legal director of an international firm, just came back with this response:

"We have checked with the Social Security Office and were advised that the Regulation still remains unchanged. It does not require the director of the Company to register the social security fund since the director is considered as the employer."

Still waiting response from the second source.

Okay, we received an answer from our accountant, as follows:

"I checked with the social security officer, she confirmed that there's no change to the law. Company directors are not required to register for Social Security."

So no change, according to the Social Security Officers our lawyer and accountant talk to. Any possibilty that the SSO staff are not aware of a change, or that regulations to support a recent change haven't been written yet?

"Not required to enroll" and "cannot enroll" are two different things. If a director who is not required to enroll wants to enroll nevertheless, can he?

[digitalchromakey]

"Not required to enroll" and "cannot enroll" are two different things. If a director who is not required to enroll wants to enroll nevertheless, can he?

My local Social Security Dept (Phuket) prohibits company directors and employees with the same family name as directors from enrolling - this policy has been in force here for more than four years now.

Sometimes they don't notice when you enroll, but if they find out and/or if there is a claim they may well not honour it; they have also been known to sometime refund any such contributions made in error.

[tombkk]

"Not required to enroll" and "cannot enroll" are two different things. If a director who is not required to enroll wants to enroll nevertheless, can he?

My local Social Security Dept (Phuket) prohibits company directors and employees with the same family name as directors from enrolling - this policy has been in force here for more than four years now.

Sometimes they don't notice when you enroll, but if they find out and/or if there is a claim they may well not honour it; they have also been known to sometime refund any such contributions made in error.

Does anybody have a link to the pertaining law or decree?

[Meloco]

<br />

<br />so i'm wondering if you're married to a Thai and don't have a uni degree, you'll never work here legally? is that right?<br />

<br /><br />i was wondering the same thing. anyone? info please?<br />

<br /><br /><br />

It has always been that way. Just because you marry a Thai, doesn't entitle you to work in the country.

[robinhill]

Well, we all recollect those exciting young days at college and university when most of our time was spent playing sports and chasing girls, and I have always declined from bothering to place my degree details after my name (for reasons which will become clear in a second), and I'm not too sure what the Thai Authorities would make of it anyway if when asking for details of my degree I was to write "BEd Honours"

[tombkk]

I'm not too sure what the Thai Authorities would make of it anyway if when asking for details of my degree I was to write "BEd Honours"

:cheesy:

[Mooner]

Hmmm. So somebody with 10 yrs tefl teaching experience would not get a work permit and the access to one of the better payed teaching jobs.

Someone who had just finished their degree in Theology with no teaching experience would.

Amazing Thailand!

[samran]

Hmmm. So somebody with 10 yrs tefl teaching experience would not get a work permit and the access to one of the better payed teaching jobs.

Someone who had just finished their degree in Theology with no teaching experience would.

Amazing Thailand!

Actually, all it would require is if you read the actual forms, then you'd see a degree isn't required as evidence unless you claim to have one.

[tombkk]

Hmmm. So somebody with 10 yrs tefl teaching experience would not get a work permit and the access to one of the better payed teaching jobs.

Someone who had just finished their degree in Theology with no teaching experience would.

Amazing Thailand!

As Samran said, check the facts before complaining.

You do need a teaching certificate before you are allowed to teach though.

[Mario2008]

[Actually, all it would require is if you read the actual forms, ..........

Maybe a degree is indeed necesarry to apply .

Sorry.

[saengsureeya]

As far as my experience goes, applying for a WP as a teacher requires a statement from the Ministry of Education, that you are allowed to teach in Thailand (e.g. Thai Teachers License).

One of the requirements of the MoE is having at least a BA and preferably in a relevant field.

Over the years rules have changed and there was a Thai Teacher Course introduced which covered/overruled university-requirements or even TEFL/TESOL/CELTA qualifications. I'm not in the business anymore, so this might not be up-to-date. Sorry.

[JRinger]

Where in the report does it say that this only valid for teachers?

It doesn't, but that would be the most logical thing - of course logic is in short supply around these parts.

If it were in fact "the most logical thing" why is not mentioned in the report?

I am not the only one who would appreciate an answer to this. Have you noticed?

Give Sunbelt a call. They'll answer all your questions, and no doubt help you with your next WP application. - Might be a bit pricey though.

100,000 Baht to help with application for Permanent Residence visa

[ricbkk]

All this paperwork and they are unable to issue a proper ID card for people with work visas. Lame~~~

TheWalkingMan

- Looks like the bash the Thais fraternity is up early this morning.

- What ID card are you talking about? You get a work permit book, is that not sufficient?

- Did Sunbelt give total information about every possible scenario about issue of work permits? No, they gave a quick summary. Do you really expect that the Sunbelt summary would include every possibility about new graduates plus new business and every other configuration?

- Go to the Labour office in Samut Prakan, Pathom Thani, Chonburi city, Chiang Mai, Lampang and you will see hundreds of people getting work permits who obviously don't have degrees and quite possible many of them have no more than very basic primary education.

- Many years ago I worked for an oil company which wanted to bring in dozens of specialists needed for a major plant start up. Most of them didn't have university degrees but they did have enormous and highly valuable and critical experience. This was all explained to the head of the local labour office and he quickly agreed to authorize work permits for these people. Plus he visited the plant, he was invited to take a tour, which he readily agreed to then he gave a quick presentation to the Thai staff who were to be involved in preparing the work permit applications, plus he visited another couple of times to check that the process was working smoothly, and it was.

I'm also aware of another case, one of the international hypermarket operators, they brought in dozens of Europeans, many didn't have a degree but did have long-term enormous experience which was needed to set-up / start-up the business, all explained to the Labour office, no problem, work permits issued.

I totally agree with you.

I have been here for 17 years and am now moving to work for my 3rd large Thai company. My career has progressed as it would have in any other country. I don't have a degree but have been able to prove my experience in my field. I have known a number of people who have berated the Thai government and their procedures while here and always wished Thailand would make it easier for them. I have also known another group of people who have always tried to live within the regulations and move with the flow. The latter always seemed more professional and grounded to me and managed to maintain a much more sustainable and stress free work life.

As I am changing over my work permit from company B to company C I was also a little confused about the information stated by Sunbelt however, all that was needed was a simple call to them to ask what the situation was. They asked me a couple of questions about my experience and qualifications and then explained what I needed to do and put me perfectly at ease again. There was no forced sell and they were perfectly helpful. So, to put it in a nutshell, if you are worried give someone a call it is much more beneficial than throwing out theories of corrupt officials and xenophobes.

Edited July 11, 2011 by ricbkk

[sbk]

Give Sunbelt a call. They'll answer all your questions, and no doubt help you with your next WP application. - Might be a bit pricey though.

100,000 Baht to help with application for Permanent Residence visa

I would highly suggest you look on their website before posting. This ability seems to be in short supply on these forums of late.

Residence Permit: 19,500

It would seem you have this confused with the Ministry of Interior's approval fee for PR for those married to Thai nationals.

But then, if you had checked the website first you would not have made such an obvious and verifiable error.

[Ulysses G.]

I just renewed my work permit and did not have to provide any proof for educational certificates or do a physical. They did inform me that nest year I will need a doctors signature on a health report though.

[jackbox]

Has anyone actually gone for a renewal since these supposed changes and been turned down for a work permit renewal due to no medical certificate? Did they announce new rules and not give any time between announcement and effect?

[Phatcharanan]

Last week one of my teachers had the WP renewal refused due to lack of a recent medical certificate. This was at Chaeng Wattana Immy.

Problem was easily resolved though a few days later once medical had been obtained.

[lopburi3]

Immigration has nothing to do with work permit issue so do not understand above post.

[A_Traveller]

Haven't read all the post, but noted that some were puzzled about the health certificate point, and assumed it was a 'get the foreigner ploy'.

To clarify, a Thai colleague applied for licences to a ministry here. They were required to provide a medical certificate and owing to complexities the process ran over 6 months [owing to changes in the licence provisions] and they were then told to get a new medical certificate since the original had expired.

So in short medical certificate requirements are not a foreigner 'issue'.

Regards

[Phatcharanan]

Immigration has nothing to do with work permit issue so do not understand above post.

No you are correct. That was my error. Our school always plan to visit Immy and the Labour Board on the same day.

[Phatcharanan]

Last week one of my teachers had the WP renewal refused due to lack of a recent medical certificate.

Problem was easily resolved though a few days later once medical had been obtained.