In Udon Thani, Red Villagers Resist

[metisdead]

Posts containing copyrighted Reuters pictures removed

Do not hotlink to Reuters pictures even if they are posted on a third party web site

This applies for all copyrighted pictures where posters are not owners.

[rubl]

Déjà vu, it's less than four months ago we had a topic "Thailand should take a stand against Gadhafi" which had

"Apparently, Gadhafi means it when he says he will fight to the last drop of his blood. Well, what it may amount to is the last drop of his fighters' blood.

He has ruled Libya for four decades with an iron fist and, given his erratic personality, he will probably go down taking as many opponents as he can, even if it means undertaking crimes against humanity."

Edited June 27, 2011 by metisdead
Previously deleted post removed.

[philw]

The ominous signs of a cult-like following are beginning to appear...

Time to relocate perhaps ???

[Buchholz]

The ominous signs of a cult-like following are beginning to appear...

Time to relocate perhaps ???

Why?

I didn't relocate from California after the Heaven's Gate cult incident.

.

[DP25]

The ominous signs of a cult-like following are beginning to appear...

Time to relocate perhaps ???

Why?

I didn't relocate from California after the Heaven's Gate cult incident.

.

Heaven's Gate didn't have a chance of taking over the government. They were slightly more sane too

[animatic]

"38 communities declared their allegiance to Thaksin"

Usually in the modern age allegiance is a pledge to your country, and not an individual leader.

In feudal times you pledged suzerainty or allegiance to your 'liege lord',

it seems modern tactics and feudal tactics well be blended seamlessly to

create a new 'leader as nation'. Historically 'leader as nation' is a king.

But we are in a democracy, so how is it democratic and in keeping with Thailands long standing national system, to pledge allegiance to a rich commoner man as if he were something higher? Some might call that treason, others LM. Thaksin stretches a few steps too far. Such hubris.

Edited June 27, 2011 by animatic

[mccw]

They don't seem at all grateful for getting their house fixed for free.

Like all those farmers getting their rice bought for thousands of bht over the real Market value now; no not good enough, they'd rather vote ptp and be greedy; bankrupt the nation for get 20,000bht a ton (about 12-14,000 over price) think how many tons of rice are produced each year! Most of the money of course won't even reach the farmers but go to the local ptp fudeaul lords.

If ptp win this election the country will be bankrupt before the next ones due.

So pity the rest of the country who aren't so greedy and stupid

[MAJIC]

(Korngchai) adds that he believes the "invisible hand" will more likely intervene in the background,

now I wonder who that could be?

Edited June 27, 2011 by MAJIC

[MAJIC]

Very soon the Army would accuse the so-called Red Village as communists...make thing easy for them...

Sorry to say, but even as opinion this is utter nonsense, in my opinion of course

Is this not how a Communist system works? a choice of one Party only? and big problems for Dissenters if they don't toe the Party line?

Edited June 27, 2011 by MAJIC

[animatic]

Very soon the Army would accuse the so-called Red Village as communists...make thing easy for them...

Sorry to say, but even as opinion this is utter nonsense, in my opinion of course

Is this not how a Communist system works? a choice of one Party only? and big problems for Dissenters if they don't toe the Party line?

It is part of how a communist system works.

Bear in mind,

Weng and Thida are direct hold overs from the communist 70-80's attempts to take over, and use classic Maoist playbook methods. And lets not forget that other retro character who actually stil dresses in Red Guards uniforms with the star hat etc.

This current 'Grass Roots Movement' is carefully crafted along the same lines as beat Chaing Kai Chek and any number of regional revolutions. etc.Indoctrination via Red Schools, and uses aspects of the local faith to create a 'god like aura' for a leader, and using temples and magic and anything the resonantes with the less sophisticated.

But the difference is they are just a faction being used by amoral capitalists to create part of the total game plan to take power. Their aims is not the final goal of those on top. Certainly the neo-communist factions think they will triumph over their masters of the moment if things turn to enough chaos... but that is down the line. Maybe to take their power base away from the cult head, and turn it against him is the final plan for this faction. In any case we have stepped back in time and all is not, on face value, as some would make us believe. Dangerous times ahead.

Edited June 27, 2011 by animatic

[MAJIC]

Very soon the Army would accuse the so-called Red Village as communists...make thing easy for them...

Sorry to say, but even as opinion this is utter nonsense, in my opinion of course

Is this not how a Communist system works? a choice of one Party only? and big problems for Dissenters if they don't toe the Party line?

It is part of how a communist system works.

Bear in mind,

Weng and Thida are direct hold overs from the communist 70-80's attempts to take over, and use classic Maoist playbook methods. And lets not forget that other retro character who actually stil dresses in Red Guards uniforms with the star hat etc.

This current 'Grass Roots Movement' is carefully crafted along the same lines as beat Chaing Kai Chek and any number of regional revolutions. etc.Indoctrination via Red Schools, and uses aspects of the local faith to create a 'god like aura' for a leader, and using temples and magic and anything the resonantes with the less sophisticated.

But the difference is they are just a faction being used by amoral capitalists to create part of the total game plan to take power. Their aims is not the final goal of those on top. Certainly the neo-communist factions think they will triumph over their masters of the moment if things turn to enough chaos... but that is down the line. Maybe to take their power base away from the cult head, and turn it against him is the final plan for this faction. In any case we have stepped back in time and all is not, on face value, as some would make us believe. Dangerous times ahead.

If the Reds were to gain power,it will be Dangerous times indeed.

[rubl]

Déjà vu, it's less than four months ago we had a topic "Thailand should take a stand against Gadhafi" which had

"Apparently, Gadhafi means it when he says he will fight to the last drop of his blood. Well, what it may amount to is the last drop of his fighters' blood.

He has ruled Libya for four decades with an iron fist and, given his erratic personality, he will probably go down taking as many opponents as he can, even if it means undertaking crimes against humanity."

Interestingly regarding the March - May 2010 protests in Bangkok the 'application to investigate' by Amsterdam & Peroff seems to have fallen on deaf ears. Maybe the ICC is just too busy:

2011-06-27 "Pre-Trial Chamber I issues three warrants of arrest for Muammar Gaddafi, Saif Al-Islam Gaddafi and Abdualla Al-Senussi"

http://www.icc-cpi.int/NR/exeres/D07229DE-4E3D-45BC-8CB1-F5DAF8370218.htm

(edit: add: not off topic, some posts were removed. This is regarding the cult-like adoration of k .Thaksin in red villages)

Edited June 27, 2011 by rubl

[MrChangers]

Having a big sign declaring where the village stands politically is insane and typical of oppressive groups, be them in power or not.

Doesn't it strike these 'freedom fighters' that the same method has been used by many oppressive regimes to force conformity?

Freedom means any one can openly choose any political leaning they like, and not be directed to be one way by the local powers.

"Red Villages" means oppression of the dissenting voices in those villages.

and where does it say that? Nothing mentioned about Yellow villages but this is the one newspaper and you follow

[MrChangers]

Very soon the Army would accuse the so-called Red Village as communists...make thing easy for them...

Sorry to say, but even as opinion this is utter nonsense, in my opinion of course

Is this not how a Communist system works? a choice of one Party only? and big problems for Dissenters if they don't toe the Party line?

It is part of how a communist system works.

Bear in mind,

Weng and Thida are direct hold overs from the communist 70-80's attempts to take over, and use classic Maoist playbook methods. And lets not forget that other retro character who actually stil dresses in Red Guards uniforms with the star hat etc.

This current 'Grass Roots Movement' is carefully crafted along the same lines as beat Chaing Kai Chek and any number of regional revolutions. etc.Indoctrination via Red Schools, and uses aspects of the local faith to create a 'god like aura' for a leader, and using temples and magic and anything the resonantes with the less sophisticated.

But the difference is they are just a faction being used by amoral capitalists to create part of the total game plan to take power. Their aims is not the final goal of those on top. Certainly the neo-communist factions think they will triumph over their masters of the moment if things turn to enough chaos... but that is down the line. Maybe to take their power base away from the cult head, and turn it against him is the final plan for this faction. In any case we have stepped back in time and all is not, on face value, as some would make us believe. Dangerous times ahead.

what a load of claptrap. you really believe this? My have you got Commies under the bed? The worst empire to try and take over the world is the US

[mccw]

It is part of how a communist system works.

Bear in mind,

Weng and Thida are direct hold overs from the communist 70-80's attempts to take over, and use classic Maoist playbook methods. And lets not forget that other retro character who actually stil dresses in Red Guards uniforms with the star hat etc.

This current 'Grass Roots Movement' is carefully crafted along the same lines as beat Chaing Kai Chek and any number of regional revolutions. etc.Indoctrination via Red Schools, and uses aspects of the local faith to create a 'god like aura' for a leader, and using temples and magic and anything the resonantes with the less sophisticated.

But the difference is they are just a faction being used by amoral capitalists to create part of the total game plan to take power. Their aims is not the final goal of those on top. Certainly the neo-communist factions think they will triumph over their masters of the moment if things turn to enough chaos... but that is down the line. Maybe to take their power base away from the cult head, and turn it against him is the final plan for this faction. In any case we have stepped back in time and all is not, on face value, as some would make us believe. Dangerous times ahead.

what a load of claptrap. you really believe this? My have you got Commies under the bed? The worst empire to try and take over the world is the US

What u say about the USA might b true; but it doesn't follow that what he says is clap trap.

Infact he pretty much accurately describes what is within the red movement.

Only the blind fools and the simple minded believe the propaganda; the red elite know exactly what they are doing and why, and it has nothing to do with the good of the poor let alone the nation

[rubl]

what a load of claptrap. you really believe this? My have you got Commies under the bed? The worst empire to try and take over the world is the US

I do not want to quantify this in a similar way, but the Chinese Empire is the one which has infinite patience in obtaining what they claim to be rightfully theirs.

Historically speaking, trying to avoid the 'claptrap' and other BS

[Ricardo]

and where does it say that? Nothing mentioned about Yellow villages but this is the one newspaper and you follow

Sorry, do you mean to say there are also "Yellow villages", can you direct me to any source of further information ?

[rreddin]

"......... his son was arrested and detained for alleged trespassing and disturbance in front of Udon Thani provincial hall, which was allegedly burnt down by red shirts."

Hmmm. As it was burnt down, I assume the second allegedly refers to whether it was done by the red shirts. Are there any other candidates? Silly me, probably the army in plain clothes, to make the red shirts look bad.

"........ the Army visitors were to "meet with people and study their socio-psychological state"." Psy-war and brainwashing are legitimate fields of interest for the RTA. It interests me that those who are members of an organisation that has committed criminal acts believe that this stigma should not be attached to themselves or the organisation. Also, that punishment should not be incurred for committing those acts. I wonder if anyone in the village is brave enough to ask him "If your son burnt down the town hall, why shouldn't he be in gaol?"

" She says red shirts merely want to make sure the palace and politics are kept apart." She seems a little confused on the role of the head of state in a constitutional monarchy. Then again, all the red shirts views on democracy are Thaksinistic, and far from those living in "real" democracy.

"............... Kamsaen says with a laugh, "it means that people in this country are stupid."" Actually, just one part of the country. (Yes, I admit, taken out of context, but it was just too accurate to resist!)

Can you imagine being on the receiving end? I think not.

To live in a country where the army over run everything, Not the Police but the Army, you support that?

Where do you come from? China? Argentina? Columbia? Old Soviet Union?

\

The reality is that some expats in Thailand are happy to live in a country where the army "run everything". They accept with alacrity things that they would not tolerate in their home country , presumably becaus it is beneficial to them.

[Robby nz]

I hear on Tele last night that in Chiang Mai and other places around the country some businesses are now giving discounts to ' red ' supporters.

Could this be considered vote buying?

But of course not the reds and PT have no connection, right?

[rreddin]

Why not ask random residents, not the head people, what they hope to achieve by doing this, what they hope will happen in Thailand, why they think Thaksin personally calls in each time a red village is set up and how they would handle any village member who refused to join in?

The residents will say what the head people want to hear. Fearfactor.

Interview a bunch of them, each one separately in private so no one knows who said what. If a reporter can't tell the difference between a rehearsed response to a question and an opinion reached by careful thought then they have no business being sent on assignment in this sort of story. The same went for last years red protests. We saw many interviews with leaders, but no real ones with the "common" protestors. Don't these people have their own opinion?

Yes they do have their own opinions. Village headmen who want to be re-elected recognize this and take account of the views of the villagers on all issues, not just politics. What is relatively new in the part of the country I am in at the moment is that villagers are holding their headmen to account. Local democracy in action.

[rreddin]

I hear on Tele last night that in Chiang Mai and other places around the country some businesses are now giving discounts to ' red ' supporters.

Could this be considered vote buying?

But of course not the reds and PT have no connection, right?

Some years ago, in the town in which I lived and worked, several local shops and stores offered discounts to the employees of the organization I worked for. Some also gave a similar discount to police officers, firemen and ambulance crews, but these discounts were not available to other people. I think few people would find objection to that. Yet, when a business in Thailand offers a discount to certain people of a different political view to you , you call it vote buying.

[RogueExpat]

Once the malignant Red cancer has set its teeth into these poor, undeserving political pawns that these villagers have become, it would be tantamount to committing suicide to declare personal opinion or support for anything but the Red machine and it's poor little emporer in exile.

Luckily outside these little enclaves in upper Issan, the boot is usually on the other foot and it's the Reds who have to be careful they don't get too militant, and show their support in a manner that allows for each person to be able to voice their opinion in a civil manner on their political leanings.

[phiphidon]

I hear on Tele last night that in Chiang Mai and other places around the country some businesses are now giving discounts to ' red ' supporters.

Could this be considered vote buying?

But of course not the reds and PT have no connection, right?

"Could this be considered vote buying?"

Well the short answer is, and you guessed it right, "Of course not". So why ask, other than to stir things up.

First of all, you "heard it on Tele" therefore it must be true. Which local channel, or was it Al Jazeera, BBC Worldwide, CNN?

Secondly, how are these businesses going to recognise "red" supporters so that they can give them discounts - do you have to be dressed all in red or hand over a "red shirt identification card", non-scrupulous people could take advantage (tounge firmly in cheek) of these valuable discounts, if they existed.

Thirdly, how would these "discounts" (again, if they existed) from "red leaning" companies be utilised to affect the vote count?

In summation, you take a throwaway line "from the tele" and dream up a conspiracy of vote buying to suit your opinion. Nice try, no cigar.

[Buchholz]

and where does it say that? Nothing mentioned about Yellow villages but this is the one newspaper and you follow

Sorry, do you mean to say there are also "Yellow villages", can you direct me to any source of further information ?

Apparently it's been established in Australia...

http://www.truelocal.com.au/business/yellow-village-kebab-and-pizza-house/bundoora

[ginjag]

Once the malignant Red cancer has set its teeth into these poor, undeserving political pawns that these villagers have become, it would be tantamount to committing suicide to declare personal opinion or support for anything but the Red machine and it's poor little emporer in exile.

Luckily outside these little enclaves in upper Issan, the boot is usually on the other foot and it's the Reds who have to be careful they don't get too militant, and show their support in a manner that allows for each person to be able to voice their opinion in a civil manner on their political leanings.

These red ghetto's show that this fair democratic election is surely not one, normally a vote cast is private affair in democratic terms.

This is totally different, it is a world heavyweight boxing championship with Tyson wanting a come back and our dear friend Henry Cooper the nice guy. Hence the reason most foreigners support the latter. The Mike Tyson supporters do not know anything about what will happen after the 3rd, as long as they get some rewards for putting the X where the BOSS tells them

[MrChangers]

and where does it say that? Nothing mentioned about Yellow villages but this is the one newspaper and you follow

Sorry, do you mean to say there are also "Yellow villages", can you direct me to any source of further information ?

Apparently it's been established in Australia...

http://www.truelocal...-house/bundoora

Very good Buchholz ...

[animatic]

Having a big sign declaring where the village stands politically is insane and typical of oppressive groups, be them in power or not.

Doesn't it strike these 'freedom fighters' that the same method has been used by many oppressive regimes to force conformity?

Freedom means any one can openly choose any political leaning they like, and not be directed to be one way by the local powers.

"Red Villages" means oppression of the dissenting voices in those villages.

and where does it say that? Nothing mentioned about Yellow villages but this is the one newspaper and you follow

It doesn't come from one news paper, but many first hand sources.

You just assume it's only from one paper.

And this is a rather weak, anemic, flaccid responce to a well conceived thesis based on observations.

"Never assume, when you assume you often make yourself an ass."

I don't remember who said this quote, but I like it.

[Ricardo]

and where does it say that? Nothing mentioned about Yellow villages but this is the one newspaper and you follow

Sorry, do you mean to say there are also "Yellow villages", can you direct me to any source of further information ?

Apparently it's been established in Australia...

http://www.truelocal...-house/bundoora

Very good Buchholz ...

'Let them Eat Kebab or Pizza', perhaps ? 'And would you like Red-beans or Yellow-peppers, on-the-side ?

[Valentine]

It doesn't come from one news paper, but many first hand sources.

You just assume it's only from one paper.

And this is a rather weak, anemic, flaccid responce to a well conceived thesis based on observations.

"Never assume, when you assume you often make yourself an ass."

I don't remember who said this quote, but I like it.

I thought it was never assume as it just makes an ass of u & me.

[englishinsiam]

If the Reds get in the Yellows will protest - If the Yellows get in the Reds will protest.

There will never be true democracy in Thailand as long as Police and officials can buy their way into jobs as what happened with Thaksin.

They will want to protect their tax free bribes and power. I'm not saying Abhisits party is immune they have a reason to keep the Issan farmers down and in their place so they don't have to share the wealth.

Sadly the brainwashed on both sides won't allow for a peaceful outcome.

Personally I keep out of it but my financial side says to me Reds get in as the Baht will plummet in value. I get paid in Sterling and if the Reds get in then we can look forward to 70+ Baht to the £ again.

Thats good for my family even if we don't agree with their brand of 'politics'