All The Fuss About Thailand...

[Zoowatch]

i am a thai national who stumbled across thaivisa.com while doing a google search on driving in thailand.

i must say that i am rather surprised by the amount of unpleasant opinions (with regards to thailand) from many of the forumers here who are presumably expatriates working and living in Thailand.

i have been reading many threads with great fascination and some of the messages impress upon me that quite a number of forumers do carry a negative view on the country.

i try not be judgemental about these views (as everyone has a right to expressing opinions) but i do wonder if most of the farangs here find it hard to adapt and live comfortably in thailand.

like most other thais, i am ignorant enough to have assumed that most expats here are well-to-do and lead a fine life, seemingly shielded from most of the social ills.

from what i gather, thailand's is either enjoying a great deal of bad publicity or is indeed in a rather dismal state socio-economically (or a combination of both).

these views seem to have been shared by a numerous groups of critical forumers and it is unfortunate they have found their stay here less enjoyable.

undeniably, i am fully aware of the many problems going on across the country, whether about the thai government, the increasingly polarised thai society, the lack of order and safety, the laid-back thai culture, the pollution and urban issues as well as other matters which are unfairly putting farangs at the disadvantage (housing, immigration etc...)

however, i have now realised that there are also many angry expats out there who are trying to play an active part in building the thai society and are conistantly denied that role. also, i realise that there are many expats who'd readily quit thailand and move elsewhere given the chance and are not afraid to be bluntly critical about the current affairs of the country, sometimes in a form of mockery.

as another thai here who just assume that all farangs lead a relatively easy life, i do find many of the comments / criticisms here useful and i hope that we can evolve into a more open society where permanant residences born abroad also has a chance to play an active role in the mainstream society.

as a thai, i've managed to live life quite pleasantly despite all the shortcomings and inconveniences here and there. we are so accustomed to passing at each day overlooking those imperfections and the "bads of thailand", so much so that we sometimes don't realise what's really wrong with something until you guys actually point them out.

at the same time, we as those who live in the country are guilty of taking many things here for granted.

i think that some of the comments about thailand here are a little unfair but most other remarks are quite valid.

of course, this is not about 'losing face' and i respect all comments i've read.

generally, i think that thais aren't xenophobic people but the lack of foreign language skills combined with the lack of proper understanding of the deeper thai culture among expats sometimes results in misperception and the alienated feelings among the local expats.

whichever category of farangs (angry, miserable / happy, enjoying) you are, i hope that at the end of your stay in thailand, you can look back without regret and feel that your time here isn't that bad after all. of course, i believe that most of us do want to play a good host of the country and make your stay as pleasant as possible.

Edited October 17, 2005 by Zoowatch

[muldoon]

I also have thai citizenship, although I'm the most un-thai thai you'll ever meet....I can say that i know lots of expats in real life who are completely happy with their situation in thailand ,are very optimistic about thailand as a whole and never whine and moan.Maybe this forum just attracts those with a greater propensity to the more negative reactions about life in LOS.It makes for highly entertaining reading

[kenk3z]

Actually, driving in Thailand is quite interesting, a good way to see the country. Some of the trolls are a little high though for the distance traveled.

kenk3z

[Mighty Mouse]

You state that you are a Thai national. Have you ever lived in another country?

If so, did you not find something in that country that was not to your liking?

Thailand is a developing country and it will continue to be a developing country for decades to come. If is doesn't continue to develop, it will sink into a quagmire.

The officials who make up the Thai government are human beings, just like you and just like those in this forum. All of whom have various opinions on how things can be improved. Government officials/ministers should be governing for the people. That's what they are elected to do.

Obviously, with so many differing opinions, there will be debate, ridicule and criticism. This is how the world is run.

I get the impression from your post that you think everyone should just sit back, become complacent and accept all things as they are.

What a boring and mundane life that would be. We may as well be born brain dead.

There will never be improvement in our lives or in our environment unless people are prepared to stand up and be counted.

Thailand is a beautiful country full of wonderful people, but it is far from perfect. It needs to listen to the opinions of its citizens, whether those citizens are national or expats and it needs to strive for constant and measured improvement.

[richard10365]

I think it is normal for every country to have foreigners who like how it is run and those who do not. No place is perfect.

I would find it interesting to read the comments (in their language) of foreigners living in the United States.

I'm sure the things they complain about are similiar to the things complained about on Thai Visa.

I'm sure there are Thai citizens who have harsher opinions than those expressed here in Thai Visa.

[cdnvic]

You'll find a few more negative opinions here because its a convenient place for people to vent frustrations as there's people here who have probably gone through the same and will understand and have advice. The same people will have complaints in their home countries too, but have a wider audience to talk to than the limits of a web forum.

cv

[freeinfo]

Excellent post Khun Z!

Wake up and smell the coffee Zoowatch (and other Thais reading this)!

Generalizing IMO, lets call him for the sake of posting, the “not so well traveled (tang chang wat) Thai” does have a bit of a distorted view that perhaps most if not all the farangs here, are bleeding rich.

A farang teacher or farang local hire on say 20/40k baht per month might seem to be earning (illegally?) a small fortune compared to the not so well traveled Thai, but Mr. Pasty Face here, trying to make ends meat on that amount of dough, especially if living in Bkk, from his point of view, is really suffering! He can’t speak the lingo, no extended family support, no family cave to crash in , maybe does not want to eat 24/7 the local delicacies but would like every once and again a juicy expensive piece of beef, cheese, some wine or other edibles which he/she was brought up on and took for granted. Add to that the heat, the different cultural ways of doing things (the ominous Thai way) and whatever else differentiates us makes the initial few years here a touch daunting to say the least.

Adapting to the LOS without having the $ is a tad more difficult than for you going abroad to study/make money vis a vi the farang coming here for the “life style” and then finding him/herself snared in some financial and/or love nightmare (his/her fault of course, lack of foresight or just plain stupidity) with no way out, having no more $ and perhaps having burnt all bridges back to their home country… Hence the high-pitched squealing and the unfavorable judgments of your land.

The ones that eked out some sort niche for themselves here seem to keep a lower profile and the winging volume down. For those of us imports that have gone ‘native’, TH assumes tones of the Promised Land with some bitching here and there i.e. the normal gripes an indigenous dweller would have anywhere else like regarding corrupt politicians, bad roads, lack of this or of that, its not like it used to be.. Etc. in other words just the normal day to day badmouthing common to most normal mortals living an average anonymous life here on planet Earth.

I also did/do/will do my share of bitching on my audioblog, so if in the mood - give it a listen!

Edited October 18, 2005 by freeinfo

[andyfletch]

Actually, driving in Thailand is quite interesting, a good way to see the country.  Some of the trolls are a little high though for the distance traveled.

kenk3z

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are the trolls the ones in the t( r )oll booths....... ?

Good posts though, and nice to see reasoned Thai comments on our views from Zoowatch ................ maybe we are the ones in the Zoo?? ......

Edited October 18, 2005 by andyfletch

[Galong]

Constructive criticism comes with freedom of speech. If the expats who live here love the country, many of them will criticise aspects of living in Thailand which they see are in need of change.

As an American, you should here what I think of my home country. There is NOTHING I have ever said about Thailand that even comes close to what I say about Bush's America. The US gov is run by a bunch of greedy morons! Just look at how they handled Katrina... absolutely shameful.

If we didn't criticise, it would mean that we didn't care and didn't care about the future. Venting anger or feelings is what many Westerners do. Please don't take any of it personally.

Those who truly don't love Thailand should leave. I can't think of any other country that would be more enjoyable than Thailand. I appreciate the ability to do business here.

[Jai Dee]

I'd like to compliment the OP on a very well constructed post, which displays an excellent command of the English language, as well as conveying very well a Thai point of view. Your education must have been excellent... congratulations.

As an expat living and working here in Thailand, I am one of those who is trying to help Thais in my industry... I communicate my knowledge, I assist them to develop themselves, and I feel pride in my workers when they achieve success.

Sure, there are frustrations, but the positives far outweigh the negatives. I like to help, and although I know that given the Thai government's current stance and laws re foreigners living and working here will never provide me with the voice I'd like to have, I still have some influence amongst my Thai friends and work colleagues. Education is a wonderful thing... even if it means educating people to be not so accepting sometimes... it is OK to ask "why?".

It is enough for me for now... maybe one day, the government will realise that some of us are here for the betterment of the country, and are willing and able to help and provide advice.

The majority of Thais I know are very good hosts, and I feel proud (and sometimes humbled) to be associated with them. I try to understand the cultural (and language) differences, and I feel that I in turn have been accepted by them.

To Khun Zoowatch, please remember that by nature most people will complain more than compliment, especially on a public forum such as this. Please do not be discouraged by this... you will also note that there are quite a few positive posters who either offer suggestions to improve a negative situation, or laugh off the situation as a bad joke.

[mbkudu]

Take away the multiple tourist visas, non-imm after non-imm, and watch them kick and scream to not be sent home. Don't be fooled; they love it in Thailand.

[cdnvic]

Too true. Look at the uproar over closing times and how so many said they were leaving, and Thailand was gonna be a ghost town as far as tourism goes. What happened? Most of them stayed, and many of those who left were leaving anyway.

cv

[thaiflyer1]

Looks like OP has done a runner..............strange things people do, get up at 5am and join Thaivisa to make a posting.

I smell a...............................

[britainmal]

Actually, There are a lot of unhappy things in Thailand, even though most Farangs prefer to live here than in the west. Remeber Thai people are very nice to Foreigners because they are not as agressive as their other Asian counterparts. (for example Koreans) So, they may not tell a foreigner bad things or act rudely because of that, but in reality, deep inside some Thais just don't like foreigners especially the young college students that hang out on Khao San Road. They don't interact with foreigners(especilly those beautiful university honeys with money)

[Jai Dee]

I  smell  a...............................

I thought so too thaiflyer1, but I assumed the mods/admin had checked his IP and verified that he came from Thailand.

His use of the English language is outstanding, although his lack of use of capitals (aka Taxexile's style of posts) is strange, given the context and choice of vocabulary.

Let's wait and see if he/she returns...

[daveb1]

I think Zoowatch makes some very good points. I am often very dissapointed at some of the views of ex pats in Thailand there attitude to the Thai people and the country in general seem to often be very negative which makes me think why dont many of them just bugger of back to there own country!

Sure not everything in Thailand is perfect but the same can be said for the UK the USA and any other country in the world you care to name.

On balance I have much more fun with my Thai friends and steer away from most ex pats as most of them I meet seem to be moany old farts!

Edited October 18, 2005 by daveb1

[mrbojangles]

I  smell  a...............................

I thought so too thaiflyer1, but I assumed the mods/admin had checked his IP and verified that he came from Thailand.

His use of the English language is outstanding, although his lack of use of capitals (aka Taxexile's style of posts) is strange, given the context and choice of vocabulary.

Let's wait and see if he/she returns...

I smelled something too (especially with the vocabulary). Interesting nick "Zoowatch" mmmmm? An animal keeper throwing in some "meat" to the Heyennas (sp) and watch them scrap over it However, many valid points where made and could open up an interesting debate.

[justsignedin]

Hi All,

I think one point worth noting is the fact that people from the developed world, us so called westerners, find it easier to travel and drop anchor where they please. This is partly because your average western joe is a lot better off than his counterparts in the developing world and western governments are able to make favourable arrangements and agreements for their nationals travelling abroad.

on the flipside of the coin though it must be said that once foreigners obtain access to the developed nations they find it much easier to gain citizenship, work and all the benefits that natives have. Whereas your average westerner staying in Thaland for example does not have any of these rights unless he is very priviliged.

So what am i trying to say. Not sure any more but i guess it's swings and roundabouts.

[Eric Davis]

Chatchawal Phansopa

Edited October 18, 2005 by Eric Davis

[muldoon]

I  smell  a...............................

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

His use of the English language is outstanding

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Believe it or not, there are thai citizens who first language is not thai.Myself (and my sister) included.

[Eric Davis]

[email protected]

[justsignedin]

[email protected]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Keh !.

[GuestHouse]

Taking Zoowatch at face value, I believe that while the OP makes some very valid points regarding expatriates in Thailand, he/she underestimates one of his/her own observations.

however, i have now realized that there are also many angry expats out there who are trying to play an active part in building the Thai society and are constantly denied that role.

I would not say angry, but I would say frustrated

I know many expatriates who genuinely love Thailand in the way only someone who makes a choice[/c] to move to and commit to a country. Thaivisa, websites and the letter pages of newspapers are full with letters critical of Thailand, particularly the government and key social issues.

Now we can of course choose to read these as negative, Thais might even hide behind the image of Thai culture as being non critical, but look at another way, these might be, and I argue are, the critical comments of people who love Thailand, are committed to Thailand and who want a better Thailand for everyone.

Educated, committed and capable people denied an active role in Thailand, denied a voice.

I'd go further, this is not just a Thai immigrant problem, Europe and particularly the UK is currently debating the integration of foreigners, how to bring them fully into the fold of society and how to make the best use of the 'Educated, committed and capable people' who have moved to Europe and the UK.

Thailand needs to address these issues too. As I have said many times on TV, Thailand is desperate for educated, trained engineers, teachers, medical staff, managers.. the list is as long as the list of industries Thailand is moving into.

But Thailand ignores, the skills and education of a whole bunch of people already living in Thailand - people who are committed to Thailand and want to make a contribution.

Blaming these people because they complain is once again missing the mark in a peculiarly Thai way.

[Pink Mist]

Zoowatch could probably tell the forum where he is currently domiciled, which may explain his excellent language skills

[Jai Dee]

Zoowatch could probably tell the forum where he is currently domiciled, which may explain his excellent language skills

You wanna let us all in on your little secret Bronco?

[Pink Mist]

will give him the opprtunity to respond first Jai

[kenk3z]

If only I could have a 5-Baht troll for every Gentleman that passed through here. Such Scamps you all are! And that would be a double-troll for answering your own post.......

kenk3z

[RDN]

If only I could have a 5-Baht troll for every Gentleman that passed through here.  Such Scamps you all are!  And that would be a double-troll for answering your own post.......

kenk3z

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He IS typing now. Let's wait and see...

[Zoowatch]

hi again.

i did not expect to be deluged with so many responses (i'd call that a privilege).

all of your comments give me a really good reflection of what the expatriate community in thailand generally think and expect... with regards to our country and all.

as i've said, i always avoid being judgmental, so it's refreshing to be reading so many views.

anyway, thanks for replying!

in the case you're wondering if i am genuinely a thai citizen.

as Eric Davis has correctly pointed out, my name is Chatchawal Phansopa and the e-mail address i used for this website is [email protected]

i am a thai citizen by birth, born into a family of civil servants in Songkhla province.

currently, i'm also holding the permanent residency of singapore, but no longer intend to return to the island state in the near future.

my intention is to work and settle down in thailand. the reasons why i do not opt to work in singapore (despite the more attractive foreign talent policy) is another story.

it's not my intention to create any kind of discord in this forum (as i'm a newbie afterall).

please simply take this as a platform to constructively discuss and air one's view about thailand...

[Jai Dee]

Welcome to ThaiVisa Zoowatch.

I hope you enjoy the forum.