Thai Immigration Crackdown On Ed Visas

[MaxYakov]

Well, we seem to have successfully got to the nub of the issue, having divided ourselves fairly neatly between two schools of thought:

1. The Illegals

I can do what I want so long as it doesn't affect you.

2. The Legals

If you're here, play by the bloody rules!

I doubt this thread is going to get much further than this impasse, but please someone wake me up if it does.

Wakeup Call!

The real 'nub' or should I use 'rub' is that Immigration is limiting foreigners to taking Thai language courses as a condition of residency whether or not the foreigner has any real interest or perceived or actual need to learn Thai. If a broader range of courses were allowed, then I don't think the fraudulent school issue would be as critical and the students could study, probably more enthusiastically, subjects the REALLY WANTED to learn.

When a bureaucracy attempts to impose it's desires (attempted social engineering, price controls, etc.) on individuals or markets ... let's just say that suboptimal things happen.

Now that you might be awake, you might pursue the issue of WHY the bureaucracy has set it up this way. This is where it really gets interesting, in my opinion. Suppose the USA (or any other country) offered student visas, but ONLY under the condition that the students study ONLY the predominant language of the country (or fill-in-the-blank other silly study limitation/constraint)?

Discussion beyond this probably becomes very non-PC. All I can say is that the 'big/little fish story' smells ... fishy to me and is fertile material for a 'Top 10 Responses to the Immigration Official's Fish Statement by the Farang'.

I'll go right to 1 (or is it #10?): Are we meeting here today to discuss fishtank ecology? (in perfect Thai, of course).

This thread needed to be lightened-up a little.

Edited July 7, 2011 by MaxYakov

[PoorSucker]

Who cares?

The new/old Thsakin policy.

[jdinasia]

In response to MaxYakov 's "wake-up call"

A broader range of courses IS allowed. They also have programs that finish .... (mostly) .. but you can study another language, cooking, etc etc etc .. but you can't study for years and years typically unless it is Thai .. or a degree program in a Uni.

You assumption that you can only study Thai is simply wrong.

Edited July 7, 2011 by jdinasia

[canes]

I know Thai people that have been studying or have studied English for 10 years or more and give the blank look when asked "how's it going" or "how was your day?"

My gf's brother recently graduated with a bachelor in english..

Yesterday he said 'Your birthday day after tomorrow'

I asked him is today the 6th?

blank stare

today 6th?

no today, tomorrow. after tomorrow. birthday

But today is the 6th right?

10sec blank..

Yes, and he walks away.

Seriously. Most of the time he has no clue whatsoever when i talk to him about the simplest thing, unless its 'give me the key' or 'take this'

We pay him 6000baht a month though, so he got what he deserve, hes slave labor lol

my gf's sister who speaks little to no english can correspond better than this -

[housepainter]

Translating the big fish etc I think would cause no problem for me and shouldn't for anyone who had been here so many years. Why do these people spend their time if they can't comprehend the most basic of Thai.

The interesting question would have been what would have happened if he did understand it and replied in Thai? I doubt if he'd have been OK as the implication is that the Ed Visa is being scrapped, which would be madness as no one coule then study here.

Another short term witch hunt then as legitimate business with foreigners attached are now targetted. Maybe it's because the language schools were never an easy target for corruption by the tea money collectors.

Maybe they sent the wrong emails and were persecuted as a result. you know the kind of thing; insults along with threats followed by orders to shut you down. The inferiority complex gone haywire.

Must be bananas or giving dogs bones.

[kropotkin]

In response to MaxYakov 's "wake-up call"

A broader range of courses IS allowed. They also have programs that finish .... (mostly) .. but you can study another language, cooking, etc etc etc .. but you can't study for years and years typically unless it is Thai .. or a degree program in a Uni.

You assumption that you can only study Thai is simply wrong.

Walen ...... russian course ...... immigration can not check your skills...... how about elementary school course....... loopholes ....... the good pay for the bad .......sigh!

[Zammo]

Next will be dodgy formed companies to buy property. Bogus marriages and proof of where the 800,000 baht come from for retirement visa applications.

The hub of ghost Towns.

[thrilled]

What i'd like to know is if your around 60-70 years old how long does it take to learn thai where you can carry on a basic conversation?

[badmedicine]

^ That would depend on how many hours a day you actually engage trying to speak to Thai people and putting into practice what you've learned at school.

Learning a language is largely dependent on how much you try to use it rather than what age you start.

[OlafStapleton]

So let me see if I have this correct?

I get the correct visa, work permit and pay my taxes but if I happen to think that someone, who by their own admission is breaking the law, should be held accountable, I am scum, an idiot, a moron or one of the other blanket statements cast out by those who feel that the law is not for them.

However if I change my point of view, it would be perfectly acceptable for me to get drunk and take out a few people going about their business???

Correct me if I'm not following you properly on this?

I correct you

In Thailand everyone break law, but people in thread break law of some kind.

Let he without guilt, cast the first stone.

That is not us.

1) Ever give tea money? felony to bribe policeman/government official, fine and deportation.

2) Ever work without permit? fine and deportation.

3) Ever drink drive? felony and deportation.

4) Ever buy house or business with Thai nominee, fraud and deportation

I know nobody in Thailand, Thai or foreigner who not commit one of crime.

You run business you pay bribe to someone.

You drive car you pay bribe to someone.

So why everyone in thread upset by VISA trick? I not know!

You have Ed VISA but not learn, not crime, minor rule break, no fine, no deportation, just need different visa next time.

Edited July 7, 2011 by OlafStapleton

[badmedicine]

I know nobody in Thailand, Thai or foreigner who not commit one of 3 crimes.

Hanging out with the wrong crowd, perhaps??

[MaxYakov]

In response to MaxYakov 's "wake-up call"

A broader range of courses IS allowed. They also have programs that finish .... (mostly) .. but you can study another language, cooking, etc etc etc .. but you can't study for years and years typically unless it is Thai .. or a degree program in a Uni.

You assumption that you can only study Thai is simply wrong.

Thanks for the update. When researching this a couple years ago (one of the agencies at Times Square, Bangkok), all I could get from them was Thai language. I need to get a current listing of the allowed/available courses and/or providers, I guess. If a broader, more interesting range is allowed, then I might go for one of them. Hmmm ... wonder if an Immigration official will try to run a little particle physics or calculus pop quiz on me in the future. Thanks Again.

[kropotkin]

I know nobody in Thailand, Thai or foreigner who not commit one of 3 crimes.

Hanging out with the wrong crowd, perhaps??

Hey, perhaps you want to get to know me ?

Sorry, I do not want to get to know you.

[badmedicine]

Sorry, I do not want to get to know you.

We have that in common, at least...

[OlafStapleton]

you true, I never mix with hater.

[jdinasia]

In response to MaxYakov 's "wake-up call"

A broader range of courses IS allowed. They also have programs that finish .... (mostly) .. but you can study another language, cooking, etc etc etc .. but you can't study for years and years typically unless it is Thai .. or a degree program in a Uni.

You assumption that you can only study Thai is simply wrong.

Thanks for the update. When researching this a couple years ago (one of the agencies at Times Square, Bangkok), all I could get from them was Thai language. I need to get a current listing of the allowed/available courses and/or providers, I guess. If a broader, more interesting range is allowed, then I might go for one of them. Hmmm ... wonder if an Immigration official will try to run a little particle physics or calculus pop quiz on me in the future. Thanks Again.

I arrived in Thailand on a scholarship to study in a Uni with a multi-Ed -- then studied Thai at Chula with an Ed visa...... I could always go for a PhD (and at this point it would probably only take a few months of studying Thai to take the doctorate program in Thai .. saving scads of cash.) The thing is I am actually employable in Thailand so after years of basically bumming around on Non-O's and non-B's I decided to work

[kropotkin]

Sorry, I do not want to get to know you.

We have that in common, at least...

Just to avoid misunderstandings, I was not talking to you but to Olav.

I hope my reply will not lead to new misunderstandings, I am NOT making a pass at you.

[OlafStapleton]

ust to avoid misunderstandings, I was not talking to you but to Olav.

I hope my reply will not lead to new misunderstandings, I am NOT making a pass at you.

Thai joke (with Thai learn English)

A: You see girlfriend? yet?

B: Not yet!

A: Why not?

Thai always laugh

Edited July 7, 2011 by OlafStapleton

[BlueTerrace]

Don't keep us in suspense, which dodgy Pattaya school was named and shamed?

[kropotkin]

ust to avoid misunderstandings, I was not talking to you but to Olav.

I hope my reply will not lead to new misunderstandings, I am NOT making a pass at you.

Thai joke (with Thai learn English)

A: You see girlfriend? yet?

B: Not yet!

A: Why not?

Thai always laugh

Olav, you need an ED visa for learning to tell jokes.

Surely Walen can help you.

Walen.......... only joking.....

[RapidMethod]

For me it is more time consuming, tedious and complex to remember all the imagery and associations used to learn a thai character than ... drill yourself...

atyclb, you have utterly missed the point of the 'Rapid' approach!

Firstly, there isn't anything to 'remember' as such, because it's a matter of seeing the shapes - albeit you have to do it squinty-eyed... it's much easier to remember things if they are related together in a quirky story.

Secondly, it's completely irrelevant what the name of the letter is, except on the rare occasion you might want to spell someone's name verbally.

The point is to be able to read, pure and simple.

"Secondly, it's completely irrelevant what the name of the letter is, except on the rare occasion you might want to spell someone's name verbally" What !!!! What if you are blocking another car at a mall parking and the PA system announces your car license plate. It suddenly becomes very pertinent that you know the name of the thai characters on your plate.

atyclb, I'm truly amazed at how some highly intelligent, educated people can be so intellectually stubborn regardless of the facts. I even know one professor of a bilingual M.Ed. program who is immensely proud of the fact that he knows no Thai and refuses to have anything to do with it so as not to blemish his pure ignorance of the language.

For your sake, I will revise my statement: "In order to be able to read words and sentences, it is completely irrelevant to know the names of the letters, except on the rare occasions where you might want to spell someone's name verbally or if you are blocking another car in a parking mall and need to listen out for your car license plate to be called out publicly."

What you suggest is tantamount to being able to read english but not know the names of letters of the alphabet.

Precisely. To be able to read English, you don't need to know the names of the ABC. Indeed, many professionals do not even use the ABC to call out letters to each other, they might use the Alpha Bravo alphabet. In order to be able to read the word "blue", was it necessary for you to know the names for "b", "l", "u" and "e"? Or did you just need to know how to pronounce "b" and "l" together followed by the combination "ue"?

I certainly am not "already Thai" but knowing the names of the thai alphabet is equally as important as knowing the names of the letters of any alphabet you are functioning with. Then there are rules that say certain consonants have a different sound when they are the last character in a word. Certain terminal consonants are without a sound.

Do you know the French names for the letters of the alphabet? No? Does that prevent you from pronouncing or understanding "voulez vous couchez avec mois"? It's something I've never thought about before until your passionate outburst: I can read French and German fairly fluently, but except for one or two letters or symbols (like "umlaut"), I have no idea what the names of the letters are.

In addition there are tone rules that apply to the 3 classes of consonants and you say not knowing the names of those consonants is unimportant. Then there are sanskriet containing words.

You really should have a quick peek at the 'Rapid' method before you make such bold assertions. None of my students know the names of the consonants or their "class" yet at the end of the course they can read and say the tones better and faster than most students who have studied a reading course for 6 months. (OK, so I lied. They do know the "class" of each letter, but they don't know they know it. It's all done subliminally using sex!)

During the 400 years of the Greek dark ages, thanks to the traveling storytellers, the Greeks developed a common spoken language, a common history composed of fables, legends, and myths, and the ability to make tools and weapons out of metal.

So you are agreeing with me then? Greek storytellers were able to recount epics like The Odyssey, The Iliad or Aeneid that lasted for days. How did they remember it all? Well, the techniques they used then are alive and well and very much part of the 'Rapid' system, not to mention Harry Lorayne's record achievements at remembering telephone books or a thousand people's names after being introduced to them for the first time.

Only learning the sound of the letter as to be able to read some quick words I admit has charismatic and entertainment value, but also cripples the student in understanding more significant and pertinent information about the language.

Quite the contrary. Students following the 'Rapid' method might not be able to describe the linguistic rules they are following in conventional terms.... but they can read and understand the words around them and pronounce them accurately. They are also able to quickly move on to conversational fluency and - if they continue to the next level - a high level of literacy all within two years, studying no more than 2 hours per week.

Remember, the whole point of this topic was about a man who had been supposedly studying Thai for 6 years and couldn't understand a simple sentence. Most students I know who have achieved a fair degree of competency in Thai have only done so after thousands of hours of study - whether intensively every day for 3 years, or more gradually over 6 years or so.

So how is it that a student can become functionally fluent in only 18-24 months (studying only around 300 hours in total) and still not know the Thai alphabet or the "consonant classes"?

How about you? Is your mother tongue English? If I asked you to give me a subjunctive conditional sentence, would you be able to do so? Yet if I asked you what you would do if you had all the money in the world, you'd have no problem answering me with something like "If I were a rich man then I'd build a big tall house with rooms by the dozen, biddy biddy bum..." Ok, so you might have known what a counterfactual or conditional subjunctive is, but I doubt whether more than 1% of English speakers know what it is - yet are perfectly able to tell you what might happen IF they got caught not following the visa regulations correctly.

I have no commercial interest or affiliation whatsoever, and in my life I have been and still am a student as I learn new things each day, have also been a G7 university lecturer, have taught languages in addition to health sciences. Nowadays am a humble student of the thai language.

Not so humble, methinks. IF you really are seriously interested in gaining fluency in Thai THEN you might want look at some ideas that could help you to achieve this goal more effectively than the tried-and-failed conventional approach...

:jap:

[ozzieovaseas]

ust to avoid misunderstandings, I was not talking to you but to Olav.

I hope my reply will not lead to new misunderstandings, I am NOT making a pass at you.

Thai joke (with Thai learn English)

A: You see girlfriend? yet?

B: Not yet!

A: Why not?

Thai always laugh

would you mind explaining the punchline..in English

[hawthorne]

First of all a anyone applying for a visa then lying is a cause for concern for that country. Maybe the people are using it to perform an illegal business? Why not just go to school for something minor since you are paying the tuition any way. What harm could an education bring?

I agree with those that wish to stay legally but do not have a job in country. Umm living with gf and you can not think of any way to stay? Why not just get married if you have been with her for so many years and you are paying for the buffalo. Hell find a simple job that allows you to stay.

[ozzieovaseas]

After 17 Pages you'd think someone would post the phonetic translation of Thai to English for "The big fish eat the little fish"..

At least then these guys would know what to listen for

I would, but i cannot find the thai word for "THE"

[SurfRider]

.

"What i'd like to know is if your around 60-70 years old how long does it take to learn thai where you can carry on a basic conversation?"

Probably about 60 or 70 years . . .

Seriously-- I know an American who's been on a ED Visa for about 3 years and actually attends classes -- On his last renewal the Imm. Agent pointed to a few signs in Thai language on the wall-- fortunately for him, he was able to decipher the code and got his extension.

.

[jdinasia]

.

"What i'd like to know is if your around 60-70 years old how long does it take to learn thai where you can carry on a basic conversation?"

Probably about 60 or 70 years . . .

Seriously-- I know an American who's been on a ED Visa for about 3 years and actually attends classes -- On his last renewal the Imm. Agent pointed to a few signs in Thai language on the wall-- fortunately for him, he was able to decipher the code and got his extension.

.

I was really sick a few weeks ago (extremely high BP) The Dr's were worried about strokes/organ damage ... when I looked up and noticed a sign asking patients to notify Dr's of any medication allergies and waved a Dr over and explained that I am deathly allergic to Sulfa meds, they quit worrying about the stroke part and and just had me pee and took some blood while giving me some meds to bring the BP back down to normal. I swear they were about to admit me until then (spent 20 minutes looking in my eyes for ruptured capillaries ...)

ps. all is fine now medically and the Dr's are laying it off on exactly what Dr's back home would have ... "too much stress"

[moe666]

So let me see if I have this correct?

I get the correct visa, work permit and pay my taxes but if I happen to think that someone, who by their own admission is breaking the law, should be held accountable, I am scum, an idiot, a moron or one of the other blanket statements cast out by those who feel that the law is not for them.

However if I change my point of view, it would be perfectly acceptable for me to get drunk and take out a few people going about their business???

Correct me if I'm not following you properly on this?

I correct you

In Thailand everyone break law, but people in thread break law of some kind.

Let he without guilt, cast the first stone.

That is not us.

1) Ever give tea money? felony to bribe policeman/government official, fine and deportation.

2) Ever work without permit? fine and deportation.

3) Ever drink drive? felony and deportation.

4) Ever buy house or business with Thai nominee, fraud and deportation

I know nobody in Thailand, Thai or foreigner who not commit one of crime.

You run business you pay bribe to someone.

You drive car you pay bribe to someone.

So why everyone in thread upset by VISA trick? I not know!

You have Ed VISA but not learn, not crime, minor rule break, no fine, no deportation, just need different visa next time.

Guess what you do not know many people in Thailand. I do not and have not ever broken the law in Thailand, I have never paid tea money and guess what have never been asked for tea money. Olaf you need to start hanging out with a better class of people. What in the world is so hard about getting up and attending one class a week for 4 hours and maybe learning something.

Even if everyone but you breaks the law do you not have enough integrity not to be a law breaker yourself. I am personally not upset but a lot of you cheaters are because you will have to get up and go to school and try to learn a bit of Thai, is that so hard if it is get out now not later.

[tropo]

What i'd like to know is if your around 60-70 years old how long does it take to learn thai where you can carry on a basic conversation?

Certainly you'd know more than the guy in the story (big fish eating little fish) if you'd been studying for 6 years no matter what your age.

[jobsworth]

Pla yay geen pla lek

So what the answer?

Just make a sound like kup like Thais say yes whether you or they have understood or not.

Nobody knows.

[moe666]

What i'd like to know is if your around 60-70 years old how long does it take to learn thai where you can carry on a basic conversation?

if 60-70 years old you donot have to learn Thai you qualify for a retirement extension of stay age wise, any how maybe the money is an issue