Thailand's Democrats Seek Ban On Thaksin Party

[animatic]

regarding corruption in gov't & elections, perhaps we as westerners should remember that :

4 of the last 7 governors of Illinois have been convicted of crimes.

Most all of the US States (47 of 50) allow redistricting of their election districts to ensure re-election.

Jacques Chirac was to be indited for crimes committed while mayor of Paris and benefited from immunity because he was then the President of the republic.

DSK - the former head of the IMF and French presidential hopeful is now under house arrest in the US for allegedly sexually assaulting hotel staff.

Multinational corporations in the US can now spend unlimited amounts of money on elections because they have been granted the same free-speech rights as individuals.

etc, etc, etc, ...

Before we all pile on the Thai people for their elections and corruption, we should remember that where ever we live and come from, there are always problems to solve and that there, too, money & graft rules the world.

Good luck to the Thai people and their new government. They have much work to do.

Actually DSK is released on bail, and free to travel anywhere if he doesn't leave USA.

Never said the USA house is an icon of perfection.

But we DO nail are bad eggs when we can.

Like Balgovich up for 10 real of a possible 300 years in jail,

Yes, gerrymandering is done in USA for political advantage.

None of which is an excuse to let Thaksins baltant crimes get a free pass.

[Britannia]

One of the Basic Teachings of the Buddha is "Investigate 'what is what'". Try, after you can ask Ganesha.

OM TRA YAM BAKAM YA JA MAHA HAY

SUGANDAHIM PUSHTI VARDANAMJ

URVARU-KAMIVA BAND HANANA

MRIT- OR MUK-SHIYA MAMRI-TAT

OM SARVESHAM SHANTIR BHAVATU

SAVESHAM PURNHAM BHAVATU

SAVISHAM MANGALAM BHAVATU

SARVE BHAKATU SUKHIN-A- HA

SARVE SAN TUNIRA MAYAAH

SARVE BHAD RANI PASY ANTU

MA KASCHID-DUKHA-BHAG-BHAVET

ASOTO MA SAT GAMAAYA

TAMO SO MA J YO TIR GAMAYA

MRITYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA

OM PRNAMADHA PURNAMIDAM

PURNAT PURNA-MUDACH-YATE

PURNASYA PURNAMADAYA

PURNAM-EVAVASHISH-ATE

I spent many years in Temple, you want to tell me something about Genesha?

[Puccini]

A bit older list, but should do for now

2007-11-15

What are the 111 TRT executive members up to?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/specials/ourvote2007/contentdetail.php?id=229

Thank your for the list. The date is old because that's when they got banned from politics, for five years, I believe. That means that the ban will end probably in December 2012.

[OzMick]

OZMick - try the Revenue department - countries are run by civil servants

Does the idiocy never stop? Civil servants do NOT make policy, they carry it out. The Revenue Dept (if it exists) will not change tax rates until it is ordered to do so by the Minister of Finance in the Yingluk govt. As she has not been appointed PM and no Finance Minister has been nominated, let alone appointed, all we have is a campaign promise which has never been costed or otherwise tested for practicability/feasibility. Some member of PTP has made a statement with no authority behind them - THAT is a fact.

As I said before, I expect that quite a few promises will be broken because they were made to pander to the greed of the electorate, but the country simply cannot afford them.

Don't bother replying, I am simply not interested.

CORRECTION - FORGOT A NOT

Edited July 9, 2011 by OzMick

[SeanMoran]

Yeah but our political parties sack their own members if they come under corruption cloud, and most Australians absolutely would not vote for a politician they thought was corrupt, regardless of party lines. The general population has a very healthy scepticism of your average politician and that's a good thing. Politicians aren't hard to replace.

At least in Thailand, the newspapers let us know which politicians are corrupt. In Australia, they're all corrupt, but they never tell us in the news, and most Australians don't have the education to realise that Australia beats Thailand by far for corruption. I like Thailand because corrupt politics in Thailand is honest, and that's more comfortable than Australia, IMO.

.

[Spalpeen]

OK, based on Wiki PTP got 48 percent of the popular vote, not 53 as another poster said here.

Yes we know popular vote doesn't determine results here, but please try to be accurate in any blown up claims of massive landslides.

http://en.wikipedia...._election,_2011

Perhaps you haven't appreciated the intricacies of the Thai electoral system which is a mixture of a first past the post constituency system and a proportional representation party list system. PTP got 48% in the constituency component but when the PR votes are taken into account they end up with 53% of the seats. A complex system but also quite a fair one as it allows people who want to vote for a small party to also express their preference for one of the two large parties.

So 53% it is.

[SeanMoran]

Perhaps you haven't appreciated the intricacies of the Thai electoral system which is a mixture of a first past the post constituency system and a proportional representation party list system. PTP got 48% in the constituency component but when the PR votes are taken into account they end up with 53% of the seats. A complex system but also quite a fair one as it allows people who want to vote for a small party to also express their preference for one of the two large parties.

So 53% it is.

Give the population a chance, mate. Whatever the system, most of Thailand has been celebrating for the past week, and you can see a change in the restaurant customers, and the karaoke bars, already. Thailand has been mai-sanuk for a long time, and now they rejoice, for whatever reasons, maybe right or wrong - time will tell, but there has been a very significant shortage of sanuk in Thailand for few years, and now it's finally over, so let's not get in the way of a good time for the moment. Let Yingluck have enough rope and see what she does with it. The people of Thailand are happy tonight, because their voice was heard.

Edited July 9, 2011 by SeanMoran

[geriatrickid]

Well if I didn't know what a hypocrite was, I certainly do after reading that lot. Could you get a copy of the Thai criminal code and decide for us which are the "serious" offences, and which we should all break at whim. I'm sure if I'm caught, I can tell the BIB that you said it was OK - that and a thousand baht should do the trick.

Do you understand that you break laws at your own peril? and when you do it in front of cameras, it is hard to weasel out? and it's not like it is the first time is it? are these people terminally stupid?

I'm quite sure that the Dems, and most intelligent/informed people realise that PTP candidates will be returned, and that there will be no change of power IF they contest their by-election fairly. is it too much to ask?

You still did not answer the question. Would you like to try again?

[whybother]

Are the Democrats also seeking to ban themselves and Abhisit? Because they should, as this photo was taken during this election campaign:

<snipped pic of Abhisit "cooking">

1) Did they give it away?

2) Did the Democrats have anything to do with reporting Yingluck giving away food?

Edited July 9, 2011 by whybother

[Crushdepth]

One of the Basic Teachings of the Buddha is "Investigate 'what is what'". Try, after you can ask Ganesha.

OM TRA YAM BAKAM YA JA MAHA HAY

SUGANDAHIM PUSHTI VARDANAMJ

URVARU-KAMIVA BAND HANANA

MRIT- OR MUK-SHIYA MAMRI-TAT

OM SARVESHAM SHANTIR BHAVATU

SAVESHAM PURNHAM BHAVATU

SAVISHAM MANGALAM BHAVATU

SARVE BHAKATU SUKHIN-A- HA

SARVE SAN TUNIRA MAYAAH

SARVE BHAD RANI PASY ANTU

MA KASCHID-DUKHA-BHAG-BHAVET

ASOTO MA SAT GAMAAYA

TAMO SO MA J YO TIR GAMAYA

MRITYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA

OM PRNAMADHA PURNAMIDAM

PURNAT PURNA-MUDACH-YATE

PURNASYA PURNAMADAYA

PURNAM-EVAVASHISH-ATE

I spent many years in Temple, you want to tell me something about Genesha?

No. Please stop.

[jdinasia]

Are the Democrats also seeking to ban themselves and Abhisit? Because they should, as this photo was taken during this election campaign:

<snipped pic of Abhisit "cooking">

1) Did they give it away?

2) Did the Democrats have anything to do with reporting Yingluck giving away food?

I rather doubt Abhisit brought oil, cng, and a wok with him to cook the bread ... he was wandering through a market and it was a photo-op. If someone can show that Abhisit violated the law then they should make sure to submit the complaint.

[geriatrickid]

Gosh, I still don't have an answer.

Do the people defending the complaints against PTP honestly believe that the motive is based solely on the accusers' love of Thailand, an respect for the rule of law and respect for the electoral process?

Or is the reluctance to respond because people know that the complaints are all about harrassment?

Lots of fanciful statements, but not one definitive answer that states that the Democrats are motivated by their respect for the law. Interesting.

[SeanMoran]

Since when is giving out food to hungry friends a sin anyway? I'm sure they bought the noodles at discount prices. If anyone comes upto me in the street I'll give them 20 baht to buy a plate of som tam or something. Am I an electoral fraud just because I GIVE A dam_n about hungry strangers?

---o0o---

I don't think that anyone who complains about the opposition doing their best to feed the hungry has ANY place in contemporary politics.

Edited July 9, 2011 by SeanMoran

[OzMick]

Yeah but our political parties sack their own members if they come under corruption cloud, and most Australians absolutely would not vote for a politician they thought was corrupt, regardless of party lines. The general population has a very healthy scepticism of your average politician and that's a good thing. Politicians aren't hard to replace.

At least in Thailand, the newspapers let us know which politicians are corrupt. In Australia, they're all corrupt, but they never tell us in the news, and most Australians don't have the education to realise that Australia beats Thailand by far for corruption. I like Thailand because corrupt politics in Thailand is honest, and that's more comfortable than Australia, IMO.

.

SMH is available online - yesterday's edition carried a large article on the Currawong scandal - corrupt politicians and public servants. People will lose their jobs and and some will do time over a measly AU$4 million.

Since the Rum Rebellion, Australia has never seen anything like Thaksin's blatant rorting, to say that it has requires a little proof, don't you think?

[Crushdepth]

Yeah but our political parties sack their own members if they come under corruption cloud, and most Australians absolutely would not vote for a politician they thought was corrupt, regardless of party lines. The general population has a very healthy scepticism of your average politician and that's a good thing. Politicians aren't hard to replace.

At least in Thailand, the newspapers let us know which politicians are corrupt. In Australia, they're all corrupt, but they never tell us in the news, and most Australians don't have the education to realise that Australia beats Thailand by far for corruption. I like Thailand because corrupt politics in Thailand is honest, and that's more comfortable than Australia, IMO.

.

Sorry but the idea that Oz politicians are "all corrupt" is not true at all. I've worked with a fair number of feds and generally found most of them to be decent people, even if I didn't like their politics. And the idea that the media would cover it up is bizzarre.

Their advisors on the other hand tend to be total slimebags. You wouldn't feed these people.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Crushdepth

[OzMick]

Well if I didn't know what a hypocrite was, I certainly do after reading that lot. Could you get a copy of the Thai criminal code and decide for us which are the "serious" offences, and which we should all break at whim. I'm sure if I'm caught, I can tell the BIB that you said it was OK - that and a thousand baht should do the trick.

Do you understand that you break laws at your own peril? and when you do it in front of cameras, it is hard to weasel out? and it's not like it is the first time is it? are these people terminally stupid?

I'm quite sure that the Dems, and most intelligent/informed people realise that PTP candidates will be returned, and that there will be no change of power IF they contest their by-election fairly. is it too much to ask?

You still did not answer the question. Would you like to try again?

I seem to have lost your original post, but if it was that crap about doing it for the love of their country, it wasn't worth answering. I think I had about 5 or 6 - should I expect your answers shortly, or is that courtesy beyond you?

[SeanMoran]

Yeah but our political parties sack their own members if they come under corruption cloud, and most Australians absolutely would not vote for a politician they thought was corrupt, regardless of party lines. The general population has a very healthy scepticism of your average politician and that's a good thing. Politicians aren't hard to replace.

At least in Thailand, the newspapers let us know which politicians are corrupt. In Australia, they're all corrupt, but they never tell us in the news, and most Australians don't have the education to realise that Australia beats Thailand by far for corruption. I like Thailand because corrupt politics in Thailand is honest, and that's more comfortable than Australia, IMO.

.

SMH is available online - yesterday's edition carried a large article on the Currawong scandal - corrupt politicians and public servants. People will lose their jobs and and some will do time over a measly AU$4 million.

Since the Rum Rebellion, Australia has never seen anything like Thaksin's blatant rorting, to say that it has requires a little proof, don't you think?

Every now and again there is a rebellion in democratic countries, just like the Rebellion, like Eureka Stockade, like May 19 in Bangkok, and like the Carbon Tax Rebellion that is coming soon to an Australian parliament near you, but the only one's so far rebelling against Yingluck are a little group of 'sour grapes' unhappy minority. Sour grapes to Thaksin? Sour grapes to back at ya. There are not enough military to even blockade Suvarnabhumi again, let alone another coup. Thailand loves Yingluck. Get that in your head and work from there, soldier-boys.

Edited July 9, 2011 by SeanMoran

[Crushdepth]

Gosh, I still don't have an answer.

Do the people defending the complaints against PTP honestly believe that the motive is based solely on the accusers' love of Thailand, an respect for the rule of law and respect for the electoral process?

Or is the reluctance to respond because people know that the complaints are all about harrassment?

Lots of fanciful statements, but not one definitive answer that states that the Democrats are motivated by their respect for the law. Interesting.

If you aren't prepared to enforce electoral law, why bother with elections at all? Why not just point a gun at people's heads next time? He with the most guns wins. Oh wait you think that's wrong...

...so why aren't you prepared to have electoral law enforced?

[SeanMoran]

There is no growth in happiness, Mr Abhisit.

[jdinasia]

Gosh, I still don't have an answer.

Do the people defending the complaints against PTP honestly believe that the motive is based solely on the accusers' love of Thailand, an respect for the rule of law and respect for the electoral process?

Or is the reluctance to respond because people know that the complaints are all about harrassment?

Lots of fanciful statements, but not one definitive answer that states that the Democrats are motivated by their respect for the law. Interesting.

If you aren't prepared to enforce electoral law, why bother with elections at all? Why not just point a gun at people's heads next time? He with the most guns wins. Oh wait you think that's wrong...

...so why aren't you prepared to have electoral law enforced?

Thaksin thinks-PTP does ------- It is gonna be hard to get away from that stupid political message!

The job of the opposition is to keep the government honest. It starts about 4 seconds after the opposition concedes that they are in fact not going to be the governing party. The irony of gk complaining about the Dems using a tactic that PTP has used in the past is astounding.

Why are the Dems doing this? Because it is their job. Will they get to run the government if they succeed --- almost a 0% chance of that. They may weaken the next government considerably though. 10-30 less seats on the government side makes the opposition significantly stronger. Crying about harassment after the way the reds/PTP ran this campaign is almost too hypocritical to bear, but hey, I would expect no less.

[moe666]

Yeah but our political parties sack their own members if they come under corruption cloud, and most Australians absolutely would not vote for a politician they thought was corrupt, regardless of party lines. The general population has a very healthy scepticism of your average politician and that's a good thing. Politicians aren't hard to replace.

At least in Thailand, the newspapers let us know which politicians are corrupt. In Australia, they're all corrupt, but they never tell us in the news, and most Australians don't have the education to realise that Australia beats Thailand by far for corruption. I like Thailand because corrupt politics in Thailand is honest, and that's more comfortable than Australia, IMO.

.

SMH is available online - yesterday's edition carried a large article on the Currawong scandal - corrupt politicians and public servants. People will lose their jobs and and some will do time over a measly AU$4 million.

Since the Rum Rebellion, Australia has never seen anything like Thaksin's blatant rorting, to say that it has requires a little proof, don't you think?

Every now and again there is a rebellion in democratic countries, just like the Rebellion, like Eureka Stockade, like May 19 in Bangkok, and like the Carbon Tax Rebellion that is coming soon to an Australian parliament near you, but the only one's so far rebelling against Yingluck are a little group of 'sour grapes' unhappy minority. Sour grapes to Thaksin? Sour grapes to back at ya. There are not enough military to even blockade Suvarnabhumi again, let alone another coup. Thailand loves Yingluck. Get that in your head and work from there, soldier-boys.

(sour grapes back to ya), seems like a bit of anger management needed here

[OzMick]

Since when is giving out food to hungry friends a sin anyway? I'm sure they bought the noodles at discount prices. If anyone comes upto me in the street I'll give them 20 baht to buy a plate of som tam or something. Am I an electoral fraud just because I GIVE A dam_n about hungry strangers?

---o0o---

I don't think that anyone who complains about the opposition doing their best to feed the hungry has ANY place in contemporary politics.

Since you are not running for an elected position in Thailand (and I can't ever imagine you being elected to ANY position in Australia) then you give away noodles to your sweet little heart's content.

But try to wrap your little mind around the fact that electoral bribery by cash or goods is a major problem in this country, and giving away food is specifically mentioned in the relevant law.

Only a totally inexperienced or terminally stupid politician would do this.

It has just occurred to me that this is the second deliberate and obvious infraction of electoral law, which could see both PTP banned and Yingluk disqualified. Given a little agi-prop in Isaan, this could lead to a huge surge in anger from the Isaan people against the Thai court system, even though either action would be quite legal. I said in an earlier post that Thaksin was looking to foment a rebellion - this really could do it.

[moe666]

As I have said before If you didn't see this challenge coming, you are challenged. If you think the democrats are out of line doing this what would you be saying if it where the PTP challenging a democrats victory. Pure hypocracy on the part of a few of the posters here who support PTP, grow up boys it is a dog eat dog world out there

[SeanMoran]

Since when is giving out food to hungry friends a sin anyway? I'm sure they bought the noodles at discount prices. If anyone comes upto me in the street I'll give them 20 baht to buy a plate of som tam or something. Am I an electoral fraud just because I GIVE A dam_n about hungry strangers?

---o0o---

I don't think that anyone who complains about the opposition doing their best to feed the hungry has ANY place in contemporary politics.

Since you are not running for an elected position in Thailand (and I can't ever imagine you being elected to ANY position in Australia) then you give away noodles to your sweet little heart's content.

But try to wrap your little mind around the fact that electoral bribery by cash or goods is a major problem in this country, and giving away food is specifically mentioned in the relevant law.

Only a totally inexperienced or terminally stupid politician would do this.

It has just occurred to me that this is the second deliberate and obvious infraction of electoral law, which could see both PTP banned and Yingluk disqualified. Given a little agi-prop in Isaan, this could lead to a huge surge in anger from the Isaan people against the Thai court system, even though either action would be quite legal. I said in an earlier post that Thaksin was looking to foment a rebellion - this really could do it.

If someone's hungry, I'll feed them. If someone's thirsty, I'll buy them a beer or cocacola or whatever. If someone doesn't have a place to sleep tonigjht, they can crash out on our lounge. I'm not scared because my girlfriend is good at muay-thai so she'll make sure they don't get upto any mischief.

If I wanted to bribe my way to an election victory, I'd pay hard cold cash, not &lt;deleted&gt;' noodles. Noodles are what you give to someone who is hungry. A plate of noodles feeds, but if you want a vote, pay cash.

In any case, they wouldn't be there in the noodle line if their vote wasn't already decided.

I'm sure the cvould have had a nice plate of roast duck at the other queue.

Edited July 9, 2011 by SeanMoran

[OzMick]

Yeah but our political parties sack their own members if they come under corruption cloud, and most Australians absolutely would not vote for a politician they thought was corrupt, regardless of party lines. The general population has a very healthy scepticism of your average politician and that's a good thing. Politicians aren't hard to replace.

At least in Thailand, the newspapers let us know which politicians are corrupt. In Australia, they're all corrupt, but they never tell us in the news, and most Australians don't have the education to realise that Australia beats Thailand by far for corruption. I like Thailand because corrupt politics in Thailand is honest, and that's more comfortable than Australia, IMO.

.

SMH is available online - yesterday's edition carried a large article on the Currawong scandal - corrupt politicians and public servants. People will lose their jobs and and some will do time over a measly AU$4 million.

Since the Rum Rebellion, Australia has never seen anything like Thaksin's blatant rorting, to say that it has requires a little proof, don't you think?

Every now and again there is a rebellion in democratic countries, just like the Rebellion, like Eureka Stockade, like May 19 in Bangkok, and like the Carbon Tax Rebellion that is coming soon to an Australian parliament near you, but the only one's so far rebelling against Yingluck are a little group of 'sour grapes' unhappy minority. Sour grapes to Thaksin? Sour grapes to back at ya. There are not enough military to even blockade Suvarnabhumi again, let alone another coup. Thailand loves Yingluck. Get that in your head and work from there, soldier-boys.

".............Australia beats Thailand by far for corruption." Iwould like some proof of this statement please, in the morning when you are sober might be a good time to put up or shut up.

[OzMick]

OK, based on Wiki PTP got 48 percent of the popular vote, not 53 as another poster said here.

Yes we know popular vote doesn't determine results here, but please try to be accurate in any blown up claims of massive landslides.

http://en.wikipedia...._election,_2011

Perhaps you haven't appreciated the intricacies of the Thai electoral system which is a mixture of a first past the post constituency system and a proportional representation party list system. PTP got 48% in the constituency component but when the PR votes are taken into account they end up with 53% of the seats. A complex system but also quite a fair one as it allows people who want to vote for a small party to also express their preference for one of the two large parties.

So 53% it is.

53% of the seats does not equate to 53% of the votes. It is quite possible if you have large wins and narrow losses to get more than 50% of the vote and still not get a majority. The discrepancy of the number of seats compared to the percentage of the vote is a reflection of this.

[SeanMoran]

".............Australia beats Thailand by far for corruption." Iwould like some proof of this statement please, in the morning when you are sober might be a good time to put up or shut up.

I'm happy to do it now.

Where are all my government records?

How did they get quietly 'altered' while I was in prison in 1999?

How did they get 'forgotten' when I was in hospital with head injuries?

That's enough from me for now. Tell me about your good experiences with the Australian government and I'll tell you about mine with the Thai government before the coup.

---o0o---

We're talking personal now Mick, okay? This is not about what we read in the newspapers. This is about YOU and the Australian and Thai governments, and about ME and the Australian and Thai governments. We can get onto the newspapers befopre long, but first, tell me your personal experience, so I can work out your mindset regarding the newspapers.

-----ooo000ooo----

Silly argument.

I'll make it simple. The corruption of the Australian government has done me aot more harm thatn the Thai government, and right now it is plain to see that the Australian corruption is getting to its peak.

That is why I believe that the 'honest' corruption in Thailand is more comfortable than the sneaky corruption in Australia, and I don't expect you to share your personal history in public, Mick. It took a lot of guts for me to do it, and in the morning, I won't be drunk enough to have this courage anymore, so let's talk about Yingluck in contrast to Gillard. That would make an interesting discussion.

Edited July 9, 2011 by SeanMoran

[OzMick]

".............Australia beats Thailand by far for corruption." Iwould like some proof of this statement please, in the morning when you are sober might be a good time to put up or shut up.

I'm happy to do it now.

Where are all my government records?

How did they get quietly 'altered' while I was in prison in 1999?

How did they get 'forgotten' when I was in hospital with head injuries?

That's enough from me for now. Tell me about your good experiences with the Australian government and I'll tell you about mine with the Thai government before the coup.

So your opinion is based on a personal grudge with no real factual basis- that explains it.

As for your questions, I plead both ignorance and apathy to all 3.

I hope your head injury wasn't too severe.

[SeanMoran]

So your opinion is based on a personal grudge with no real factual basis- that explains it.

As for your questions, I plead both ignorance and apathy to all 3.

I hope your head injury wasn't too severe.

Personal experiences can be causal to grudges. There is NOTHING more factual than personal experience.

I guess you've been lucky.

Six years and I still get the pain. Nothing I can't handle as long as they stock bia Chang and tylenol at the minimart.

[Spalpeen]

Perhaps you haven't appreciated the intricacies of the Thai electoral system which is a mixture of a first past the post constituency system and a proportional representation party list system. PTP got 48% in the constituency component but when the PR votes are taken into account they end up with 53% of the seats. A complex system but also quite a fair one as it allows people who want to vote for a small party to also express their preference for one of the two large parties.

So 53% it is.

Give the population a chance, mate. Whatever the system, most of Thailand has been celebrating for the past week, and you can see a change in the restaurant customers, and the karaoke bars, already. Thailand has been mai-sanuk for a long time, and now they rejoice, for whatever reasons, maybe right or wrong - time will tell, but there has been a very significant shortage of sanuk in Thailand for few years, and now it's finally over, so let's not get in the way of a good time for the moment. Let Yingluck have enough rope and see what she does with it. The people of Thailand are happy tonight, because their voice was heard.

I agree completely. There's a distinct change for the better in mood, both at street level and among business people. Let's hope no one tries to spoil the fun.