Thailand's Democrats Seek Ban On Thaksin Party

[OzMick]

This is not about the Democrats contesting the result - the result can't be overturned anyway, as some PT fans are trying to suggest.

This is about adhering to the Law. If PT is disbanded, the PT constituency MPs will have their seats but will just have to set up another party under which to gather, potentially with different party-list MPs. Remember, the people didn't vote for Yinglak, they voted for Peau Thai's local representative in their consituency (well, except for ANYWHERE within 800km of where I live!).

Even the party list MPs stay on ... unless they are part of the executive.

Oh BUGGER!

[exbelg]

time to make thailand back to siam ? just greater bangkok and let the north and the south figure it all out by themselves ???

so the rich chinese elite can rule bangkok as they wishes and spend most of the tax payers money (other parts in thailand hardly pay any taxes?)

[rixalex]

Look at the colleges they attended very far from the elite.

The colleges Thaksin and Yingluck attended were not a reflection of their family background, but rather their academic level.

Whilst studying in America, Thaksin was driving himself around in a Mercedes. Does that not tell you something? His family had the funds for him to study wherever he liked, but studying somewhere like Yale or Oxford requires something more than money.

Oh Ya? That is why George Bush graduated from Yale and Harvard because he was so bright. Give me a break

If Yale and Harvard, or Oxford and Cambridge, were full of idiots there simply because of their family background, these institutes wouldn't have the reputations that they do.

As has already been stated, the Shinawatras were already one of the richest families in the north of Thailand when Thaksin was born. Your reasoning that Thaksin was unable to study at any of these places for lack of funds is a complete nonsense, illustrated no more so than by the fact that as a student in America, he was pottering to and from the campus in a Mercedes Benz.

[hardy1943]

Oh Ya? That is why George Bush graduated from Yale and Harvard because he was so bright. Give me a break

Legacy admission. His Big Rich Powerful Daddy went there. Thaksin isn't American and had no family legacy at elite American schools, so your point is totally irrelevant.

Now the next thing you will tell me Chelsea Clinton got into Stanford and her Rhodes Scholarship because of her Daddy.

[DP25]

The Dems should simply get on with reforming, reaching out and trying to understand WHY they lost the election.

Ignoring the illegal activities that may have been committed, they lost the election because of the PAD vote no/boycott, low turnout compared to 2007, and because of vote split among (now)opposition parties. Not because of any strength of a PTP message, which resulted in them getting fewer votes in 2007. PTP could be knocked under 200 just by ensuring there would be no vote split in certain districts.

[Jingthing]

Oh Ya? That is why George Bush graduated from Yale and Harvard because he was so bright. Give me a break

Legacy admission. His Big Rich Powerful Daddy went there. Thaksin isn't American and had no family legacy at elite American schools, so your point is totally irrelevant.

Now the next thing you will tell me Chelsea Clinton got into Stanford and her Rhodes Scholarship because of her Daddy.

Nope. She was a brilliant student. W. Bush wasn't. What's your point?

[Thaddeus]

If PTP have not broken the law, they have nothing to worry about.

Bada bing.

[OzMick]

Quite frankly, I think they should Phuea Thai let govern the country. The first to suffer from their silly policies are the poor. It's time the poor and the reds get a real feel of what Phuea Thai is, otherwise they will never realize the truth. The workers are already calling for the 300 Baht wage raise, the reds are already calling for seats in Parliament and ministeries. Phuea Thai fed them with promises, now they are hungry and want the meat to be delivered. Raise the wages and let smaller factories go bankrupt so those workers will get jobless and end up having no income at all, let larger factories lay off people to cope with the increased cost and let those who remain work harder. Give tablets to all students so they don't do anything more than sitting around with their dammed tablets playing games, or eventually throwing them in a corner becase the parents can't afford the internet connection. Why get them banned and be the bad guy again? Let Phuea Thai govern and fail.

Exactly right! Given the opportunity to govern they will show themselves for what they are, if it doesn't work, everyone will see! If they are constantly prevented from governing, they will always be the 'hard-done-by voice of the people'

An unbelievably short-sighted and stupid move that does absolutely nothing for the country, or for the Dem's long-term future.

I also agree that it would be better for the country if this all comes to nothing, but i would like it to come to nothing because there is no foundation to it - .because PTP have followed the law. If they haven't, what do people expect the opposition party to do? To ignore it? To let it go? Why should they? Because people who voted for PTP will not like it?

If there is truth to it, people who voted for PTP should be angry. Not with the Dems or with the judiciary, but with the PTP for being so stupid... again.

True, but it's unlikely to be viewed like that. It will be seen as the Dems hanging on to power without a mandate.

The judiciary are seen as the one's who removed them from power last time.

Politics is all about perception. In a potentially unstable situation like this one, I just think it's very, very short-sighted and dangerous to start this kind of procedure right after the election.

I hope it comes to nothing, for the right reasons too!

When is a better time to start it?

[whybother]

time to make thailand back to siam ? just greater bangkok and let the north and the south figure it all out by themselves ???

so the rich chinese elite can rule bangkok as they wishes and spend most of the tax payers money (other parts in thailand hardly pay any taxes?)

The people of the south voted for the same party as most of Bangkok.

[asiancup2007]

There isn't a court in the world that can make the Democracts electable. Losers.

[KKvampire]

of course PTP should be disbanded , it wont be, We are about to see a huge clash and pressure brought on the judiciary in Thailand, These Reds UDD and PTP think they have "carte blanche" to do what they want after the Election

[OzMick]

Abhisit is the "brain" of the Democrats like Thaksin for the PTP and both are pulling the strings in the back.

If you think that Abhisit's power and influence over the Democrat party is anything close to Thaksin's power and influence over the PT party, you are very much mistaken. Abhisit is a frontman, and a good frontman at that, but his hands are tied a lot of the time and his powers limited, as we have seen evidence of over the last couple of years.

Thaksin on the other hand; he says "jump" and all the underlings - that's everyone - politely enquire, "how high?"

WRONG! they ask "Is this high enough?"

[Jingthing]

There isn't a court in the world that can make the Democracts electable. Losers.

I think you're right there. But it still doesn't make what PTP/Thaksin did in this election right or legal. Two different issues.

[DP25]

This action, IF it is successful, won't get the Democrats into government.

It's NOT 2008.

The PTP have a majority of seats and don't have large factions that are going to change sides.

Only the executives will be banned. Some by-elections will need to take place, which new-PTP will no doubt win.

Yingluck will still be PM. The new-PTP will still have a majority and will still have the support of their coalition partners.

Nothing will change.

This isn't necessarily true, there are a huge number of seats won with way under 50%. The PTP majority could be destroyed by opposition parties not running against each other.

[paulrobertlane]

Surprise,surprise!

The people have had their say, hopefully he courts will throw this out before it even gets off the ground.

Upholding anything like this would probably be the simple way to allow the military to do exactly what they said they won't on the basis that they would be intervening in a potential civil war.

Let the democratically elected government to get on with their job, if they fail the people will have an opportunity to go to the polls again in the future.

Nothing Democratic about an election with Rampant Vote Buying.

CS

The vote buying issue cuts two ways.

1. The Dems were buying in my town where they lost their previuous majority narrowly. Why do people only seem to assume it is PTP doing this when clearly it is not.

2. People take the money but many dont actually vote for those who paid them. Once insdie the voting booth they can simply put their cross wherever they choose.

3. It was alleged that vote buying took place in a constituency where PTP got 71,000 votes and Dems under 1500. That would be a very stupid waste of 7m baht!

I dont dispute that vote buying goes on, and certainly dont condone it, but how do we know the people who take the money vote for that party and perhaos more importantly how do we know they would not have voted that way anyhow.

1) I agree with you. I've never said that the Vote Buying / Corruption isn't taking place by Both Sides.. actually by ALL sides... It's Cultural. The only difference between the Reds and Yellows, Phua Thai and Democrats, Newin and Thaksin, is that they have different Names.. they are all Both sides of the same Coin... Corruption in endemic in Thailand.. and all are equally corrupt... and That is the Problem.. and the reason that a True Democratic election is Impossible here now, until there is a massive cultural awakening.

2) Whether or not the people who took money actually voted the way they had promised, or not is irrelevant.. in a Real Democracy.. Vote Buying or Vote Selling are equally corrupt... and each supports and perpetuates the Other.

3)Never underestimate the ability for a Thai to be Stupid, or act without Common Sense or Logic... after all... TIT !!! and thinking things through is not something they are trained in school to do.

CS

Fair points CS. My use of "quoting" you was aimed generally at the people shouting about vote buying as if it is the sole reason PTP won as opposed to criticising your statement, your statement which is hard to refute.

[Nisa]

Oh Ya? That is why George Bush graduated from Yale and Harvard because he was so bright. Give me a break

Legacy admission. His Big Rich Powerful Daddy went there. Thaksin isn't American and had no family legacy at elite American schools, so your point is totally irrelevant.

Now the next thing you will tell me Chelsea Clinton got into Stanford and her Rhodes Scholarship because of her Daddy.

Nope. She was a brilliant student. W. Bush wasn't. What's your point?

Ted Kaczynski (The Unabomber) had an IQ of 170, graduated from Harvard and had more and higher degrees than any of these people. His family didn't have wealth nor were they prestigious or business owners ... his father also didn't Head the CIA and wasn't an important political figure or a wealthy foreigner willing to pay what it takes to get enrolled.

Edited July 8, 2011 by Nisa

[diehard60]

Anyone else have a sense of deja vu?

Agreed.

TRT got nailed. PPP also got nailed.

It seems they still haven't learned from experience and have left themselves open yet again. It seemed pretty obvious before hand that this case would be filed whether or not the Dems won...

I think the people voted. And it is time to see what will happen as the dems are very soar losers. As always.

[whybother]

This action, IF it is successful, won't get the Democrats into government.

It's NOT 2008.

The PTP have a majority of seats and don't have large factions that are going to change sides.

Only the executives will be banned. Some by-elections will need to take place, which new-PTP will no doubt win.

Yingluck will still be PM. The new-PTP will still have a majority and will still have the support of their coalition partners.

Nothing will change.

This isn't necessarily true, there are a huge number of seats won with way under 50%. The PTP majority could be destroyed by opposition parties not running against each other.

There won't be that many by-elections. After the PPP were banned, there were 29 by-elections. (edit: I think that was after the banning. it could have been due to red/yellow cards after the 2007 election.)

I would think there would be less this time, since the PTP actively took people of their executive list for this very reason.

edit: you would probably also find that most executives are from strong pro-PTP areas, so the new-PTP will get elected there whatever happens.

Edited July 8, 2011 by whybother

[diehard60]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!! What am I hearing here? Wow so many people finally woke up to the fact that the Democrats are not real democrats and are only thinkoing of themselves.

Thank you people.

[badmedicine]

Charles Manson received 99% of the vote he would still not be eligible for the post (not the least because he is not Thai).

Second laugh-out-loud moment in this thread. Tv just gets better everyday

[OzMick]

NATIONAL

Pheu Thai ready to defend Yingluck's cooking show

By The Nation

Published on July 8, 2011

The Pheu Thai Party on Friday played down the probe into alleged vote-buying involving Designate Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, arguing the campaign activity in question could not be construed as a hand-out.

"There was no distribution of free food nor any attempts to buy votes as alleged," Pheu Thai spokesman Prompong Nopparit said.

The Election Commission has launched the investigation into a complaint that in a campaign demonstration in Nakhon Ratchasima, Yingluck cooked and handed out a local noodle dish, known as Mee Korat. Under the campaign rules, the hand-out of food or material gift is classified as vote-buying.

Prompong insisted Yingluck and her campaign workers did not distritute the fried noodle. The cooking was just a normal campaign activity to attract the crowds, he said.

-- The Nation 2011-07-08

PTP spokespersons have an amazing ability to tell a lie with a straight face. So, Prompong, what happened to the noodles?

PTP also has to have the worst political advisers in the world for suggesting she commit an illegal act. unless of course it is a cunning plan to get rid of the dead weight AFTER the election as well as garnering sympathy from their illiterate supporters.

[Pi Sek]

Oh Ya? That is why George Bush graduated from Yale and Harvard because he was so bright. Give me a break

Having been to "one of the world's best universities" (and even studying there, too!), I don't have much of a problem differentiating between intelligence, knowledge and wisdom. To get in, you need intelligence. To pass, you need knowledge. At no point do you need wisdom before you graduate. After you've graduated, knowledge and intelligence don't count for much any more and wisdom takes a more important role.

[whybother]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!! What am I hearing here? Wow so many people finally woke up to the fact that the Democrats are not real democrats and are only thinkoing of themselves.

Thank you people.

Do "real democrats" accept people breaking the law?

[hardy1943]

Oh Ya? That is why George Bush graduated from Yale and Harvard because he was so bright. Give me a break

Legacy admission. His Big Rich Powerful Daddy went there. Thaksin isn't American and had no family legacy at elite American schools, so your point is totally irrelevant.

Now the next thing you will tell me Chelsea Clinton got into Stanford and her Rhodes Scholarship because of her Daddy.

Nope. She was a brilliant student. W. Bush wasn't. What's your point?

My point is! Let enjoy this beautiful country. We are their guest it is their country and lets not even have crap like this on this forum. We can not vote and have no say!

I do not know about you Jingthing I have the most wonderful Thai wife and the most wonderful life here and it hurts me to see the division here. Hope no offence to you and this will be my last post here forever.

[rubl]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!! What am I hearing here? Wow so many people finally woke up to the fact that the Democrats are not real democrats and are only thinkoing of themselves.

Thank you people.

WOW!!!

The democrats ask the EC to investigate Pheu Thai for breaching the Election Law. Promptly they are called about every name in the book, starting with 'not democratic', 'ruthless', etc., etc.

They operate within the LAW. Anything wrong with that

Edited July 8, 2011 by rubl

[Nisa]

This action, IF it is successful, won't get the Democrats into government.

It's NOT 2008.

The PTP have a majority of seats and don't have large factions that are going to change sides.

Only the executives will be banned. Some by-elections will need to take place, which new-PTP will no doubt win.

Yingluck will still be PM. The new-PTP will still have a majority and will still have the support of their coalition partners.

Nothing will change.

Maybe, IF this is the ONLY action taken. I would not be surprised if before the end of the year every action is taken to remove Thaksin from power for good, even if it means turmoil in the streets again. I really believe the vast majority of Thais and politicians would be willing to accept any party victory as long as Thaksin was not involved. Just as I believe there are a great number of these same people who are willing to see a significant crisis now, in order to rid Thailand of Thaksin once and for all in order to truly move Thailand and all its people forward.

[badmedicine]

As much as it pains me, I have to say for once I agree with the Thaksinistas here. The dems need to let this gov't implode under its own weight. Anything else will only increase i) Thaksin's appeal and ii) disharmony/strife/civil war.

[badmedicine]

BTW, I suspect He in Dubai will be more than happy to see PT dissolved through institutional means, particularly if that could mean them not forming a gov't.

Why?

Because nothing would force the situation into a do-or-die with his enemies any better, with TS holding all the "moral" (I use the word VERY loosely) high ground.

The Dems really needs some smarter strategists.

Edited July 8, 2011 by badmedicine

[OzMick]

His parents where shopkeepers far removed from the old and powerful elite. Look at the colleges they attended very far from the elite. Chinese Elite = born with a silver spoon in their mouth like the last PM. He made the poor feel like real people for the first time in their lives.Like or not they will never forget it.

Shopkeepers???????? What propaganda have you been reading?

Thaksin's great-grandfather Seng Sae Khu made his fortune through tax farming. The Khu/Shinawatra later founded Shinawatra Silks and then by moving into finance, construction and property development. Thaksin's father, Lert, was born in Chiang Mai in 1919 and married Yindi Ramingwong (a daughter of Princess Jantip Na Chiang Mai). In 1968, Lert Shinawatra entered politics and became an MP for Chiang Mai and deputy leader of the now-defunct Liberal party. Lert Shinawatra quit politics in 1976. Lert Shinawatra opened a coffee shop, grew oranges and flowers in Chiang Mai's San Kamphaeng district, and opened two movie theatres, a gas station, and a car and motorcycle dealership. By the time Thaksin was born, the Shinawatra family was one of the richest and most influential families in Chiang Mai.

http://en.wikipedia....atra#Early_life

Come on mate, they're still shops. He just had a lot of them.

[Jingthing]

As much as it pains me, I have to say for once I agree with the Thaksinistas here. The dems need to let this gov't implode under its own weight. Anything else will only increase i) Thaksin's appeal and ii) disharmony/strife/civil war.

That may be true but it's hard to predict the future that way. If nothing is done to stop Thaksin's total grab for power, who's to say whether the reaction to what the anti-Thaksin forces do will really be worse than that? Nobody knows that either way, and, there is no doubt the democrats have a credibly strong case technically based on involvement by banned politicians.