Stopping Locals Burning Plastic Bags.

[jubby]

We don't have a rubbish collection but the next Village does.

So anything thats not recycled, and that generally come down to just plastic bags I used to burn.

burn it on a good hot fire and it seems to burn clean. not the awful smouldering fires like the neighbours.

I have been putting my rubbish in the bins in the next village until I found the dump where the authorities take it.

its a huge open Air dump of smouldering plastic and other <deleted> a few kilometers away in the countryside. These Dumps are constantly Smouldering all year round.

It gets burned regardless here, all I can suggest is you show the woman how to get a hot fire and incinerate it.

[Latindancer]

my worst 'toxic air' exp was when we were living rural Sa Kaeo, on one of my cycling routes there was a recycling place.

Recycling you say? That must be 'good' . . .

Well it would be if not for the fact that they burn all the types of plastic unsuitable for recycling, as well as separate fires to burn the plastic coating off copper cables.

On a still day a huge plume of the blackest smoke, poison.

Lucky you're not living there any more. Burning the plastic coating off copper cables definitely produces dioxin. I used to teach in Taiwan, and a newspaper article there said that Taiwan has the highest residual dioxin level in the world (though I'd say that Vietnam is actually higher, from the effects of Agent Orange) and that this was from the locals burning the plastic coating off copper cables. Dioxin has some truly horrid effects, even in infinitesimal doses.

Sorry to hear about your experience, Happyrobert.....I wonder what is going on in Khun Burnalot's head, if anything ?

You may well be right about the Freudian thing.....it's a mild form of pyromania.

"Pyromania is an impulse to deliberately start fires to relieve tension or for gratification or relief. The term pyromania comes from the Greek word πῦρ ('pyr', fire). Pyromania and pyromaniacs are distinct from arson and arsonists, whose motivations stem from psychosis, the pursuit of personal, monetary or political gain, or the intent to inflict harm for advantage or revenge. Pyromaniacs start fires to induce euphoria, and often fixate on institutions of fire control like fire stations and firefighters. Pyromania is a type of impulse control disorder."

Edited July 15, 2011 by Latindancer

[happyrobert]

my worst 'toxic air' exp was when we were living rural Sa Kaeo, on one of my cycling routes there was a recycling place.

Recycling you say? That must be 'good' . . .

Well it would be if not for the fact that they burn all the types of plastic unsuitable for recycling, as well as separate fires to burn the plastic coating off copper cables.

On a still day a huge plume of the blackest smoke, poison.

Sorry to hear about your experience, Happyrobert.....I wonder what is going on in Khun Burnalot's head, if anything ?

You may well be right about the Freudian thing.....it's a mild form of pyromania.

"Pyromania is an impulse to deliberately start fires to relieve tension or for gratification or relief. The term pyromania comes from the Greek word πῦρ ('pyr', fire). Pyromania and pyromaniacs are distinct from arson and arsonists, whose motivations stem from psychosis, the pursuit of personal, monetary or political gain, or the intent to inflict harm for advantage or revenge. Pyromaniacs start fires to induce euphoria, and often fixate on institutions of fire control like fire stations and firefighters. Pyromania is a type of impulse control disorder."

I think K. Burnalot uses a vegetable collander for her motorcycle helmet.

I truly believe you have hit the nail on the head here. (Now, would you consider doing the same with K. Burnalot?) Nothing better than coming in out of the snow and starting a roaring fire, then settling down to a quiet crackling and popping and watching the flames dance about while you sip wine with one hand and your other hand is on your girlfriend's---uh, I digress--but we burn wood in our fireplaces for warmth..... don't we?

Edited July 15, 2011 by happyrobert

[happyrobert]

It gets burned regardless here, all I can suggest is you show the woman how to get a hot fire and incinerate it.

Okay, let's see you try to "show" a Thai how to do something. Then teach me how you did it. If you can get a work permit, farangs will hire you 24/7.

I used to live on Koh Chang and wondered where all the garbage went. A LOT of garbage on an island where there is NO place to put it.

No pick up in the daytime. Always after midnight. And who wants to follow a garbage truck on a motorbike anyway?

Naturally, when I inquired of Thai-- resort owners and even a government official who was a friend-- they looked perplexed. And why did I want to know, anyway? Uhm, just curious.

Skip ahead to two years later and a few weeks ago. Doing a bit of fishing off the coast of Trad. See something VERY big in the water passing--with almost imperceptable speed-- by Little Koh Chang, coming from the east or north side of Koh Chang. As it drew closer I could see it was a barge. Not just any barge, but 4 barges trained together grudgingly fighting their way to sea. I got close enough to see mountains of fluttering garbage on each barge. I could smell it a couple of miles away.

Skip ahead to a few days later. Walked down to the tiny beach where I'm building a house. Usually one or two days a week the beach will be littered with garbage (to be washed out by the next high tide) mostly from fishing boats--or fishing boats. There is always bottles and disposable lighters. Sometimes some hospital trash.

This day was unbeliveable.

Plastics, lighters, shoes, cups, bottles, oil filters, hospital waste such as syringes and vials, a TV--yes, a TV--huge amounts of styrofoam and more. It was impassable. It was in the water, too.

It took three high tides to take it all away.

I remember as a kid, I read where New York barged its garbage out to sea. I believe it was something like 70 or 80 miles into very deep Atlantic water--probably where the currents would take it to Cuba, or maybe England (still not right and I don't know if they still do this?--anybody?) but I'm guessing that with sophisticated fuel cost accounting by its crew ( ) the Koh Chang Express didn't go more than a few miles before it dumped in the relatively shallow waters of the Gulf of Thailand. In a diving spot highly touted by Thai tourist agencies.

What were two posters saying yesterday about how Thailand carefully watches anything that would affect tourism? Uh-huh.

DIVE KOH CHANGS NATURAL SYRINGE REEFS IN CRYSTAL CLEAR WATER! (PLEASE DON'T TOUCH THE NEEDLE FISH).

Wonder why their reefs are turning white?

Think I'll give up eating fish. Can't eat Kobe beef anymore, either.

*sigh*

[Latindancer]

It's a type of psychological compensation.

"Individual factors that can lead to pyromania mainly deal with personal issues in someones life.Other causes may include the seeking of attention from authorities or parents and resolving social issues such as bullying or lack of friends (Frey 2001). Another cause may be that the patient is subconsciously seeking revenge for something that has occurred in the past (Oliver).

Environmental factors that may lead to pyromania include an event that the patient has experienced in the environment they live in. Environmental factors include neglect from parents and physical or sexual abuse in earlier life. Other causes include early experiences of watching adults or adolescents using fire inappropriately and lighting fires as a stress reliever (Frey 2001).

Pyromania is generally harder to treat in adults, often due to lack of cooperation by the patient. Treatment usually consists of medication to prevent stress or emotional outbursts (Oliver) in addition to long-term psychotherapy (Frey 2001".

Medication ?...Hmmmmm ....Give her a bottle of booze on a regular basis, perhaps ? Turn her into an alcoholic ! Hey, it's your health or hers ! At the very least, she'll think you're a great guy and perhaps be more considerate...

[Richb2004v2]

It gets burned regardless here, all I can suggest is you show the woman how to get a hot fire and incinerate it.

Skip ahead to a few days later. Walked down to the tiny beach where I'm building a house. Usually one or two days a week the beach will be littered with garbage (to be washed out by the next high tide) mostly from fishing boats--or fishing boats. There is always bottles and disposable lighters. Sometimes some hospital trash.

This day was unbeliveable.

Plastics, lighters, shoes, cups, bottles, oil filters, hospital waste such as syringes and vials, a TV--yes, a TV--huge amounts of styrofoam and more. It was impassable. It was in the water, too.

*sigh*

I took to cleaning a local beach a few years ago here. I found similar things littering the beach to you. The number of tooth brushes, flip flops and straws was amazing, but so was the amount of strange things like electrical components ie started motors, bulbs etc. I gave up in the end.

[happyrobert]

It gets burned regardless here, all I can suggest is you show the woman how to get a hot fire and incinerate it.

Skip ahead to a few days later. Walked down to the tiny beach where I'm building a house. Usually one or two days a week the beach will be littered with garbage (to be washed out by the next high tide) mostly from fishing boats--or fishing boats. There is always bottles and disposable lighters. Sometimes some hospital trash.

This day was unbeliveable.

Plastics, lighters, shoes, cups, bottles, oil filters, hospital waste such as syringes and vials, a TV--yes, a TV--huge amounts of styrofoam and more. It was impassable. It was in the water, too.

*sigh*

I took to cleaning a local beach a few years ago here. I found similar things littering the beach to you. The number of tooth brushes, flip flops and straws was amazing, but so was the amount of strange things like electrical components ie started motors, bulbs etc. I gave up in the end.

That, of course, is the most appropriate time to give up.

[nong38]

Just down wind of me if a chimney that rises up about 60 feet, everyday they get up a good head of steam, everyday its expanded polystyrene(thse little trays you get takeaways in), it stinks and when I say to the G/F they should not be burning that she says to me, you not worry!!!!!!! I tell her it very poisonour gas that it gives off ( cyanide). I tell her it kills Thais to you know not just westerners,but, life goes on here, the burning goes on, maybe its a religeous thing, nothing I can do maybe one day someone important will croak and then maybe.

Round the corner there is a communal fly tipping area, an ahrdly get the lake now, authorities came and put some blocks in front to stop people, they even sat about to deter offenders, had a few cigs then went for tea, never been back, if they did they would see the other side of the road is the new dump,but, then again maybe they would not see it. Maybe we expect to much, I think we would all like the best of the west with best of LOS and it aint going to happen anytime soon is it.

[Richb2004v2]

Just down wind of me if a chimney that rises up about 60 feet, everyday they get up a good head of steam, everyday its expanded polystyrene(thse little trays you get takeaways in), it stinks and when I say to the G/F they should not be burning that she says to me, you not worry!!!!!!! I tell her it very poisonour gas that it gives off ( cyanide). I tell her it kills Thais to you know not just westerners,but, life goes on here, the burning goes on, maybe its a religeous thing, nothing I can do maybe one day someone important will croak and then maybe.

Round the corner there is a communal fly tipping area, an ahrdly get the lake now, authorities came and put some blocks in front to stop people, they even sat about to deter offenders, had a few cigs then went for tea, never been back, if they did they would see the other side of the road is the new dump,but, then again maybe they would not see it. Maybe we expect to much, I think we would all like the best of the west with best of LOS and it aint going to happen anytime soon is it.

It's the same everywhere. Oh no, sorry it's just where you and me have been. Or that's what others tell me.

Edited July 16, 2011 by Richb2004v2

[Latindancer]

As I'm sick to death of almost vomiting from plastic fumes in the afternoon, I just fired off this email to the Thai Ministry Of Public Health. It'll be very interesting to see what kind of response I get. If I can't get them to do anything I'll just have to pay a local policeman to go and tell the two neighbors to stop.

Dear Sir / Madam,

I am writing to you about a public health issue in Bangkok which also affects me.

I live in a condominium, and there are a few neighbors living nearby who burn rubbish. Often it is plastic. The problem is that the wind always carries this smoke into our apartment, as the wind almost always blows from the same direction.

Burning plastic is a serious health issue as the smoke can often contain dioxin, which is one of the strongest poisons known. My wife and I plan to have a baby next year, so this is VERY serious. Dioxin can cause birth deformities.

Everyone living in our condominium is also affected. The people who are doing the burning, and their close neighbors, are also affected but they do not know how serious this problem is.

I have tried to speak to them about this, but my Thai is not good and they continue to burn plastic.

My wife is Thai and naturally she does not want to cause problems.....as this is the Thai way.

Can you please tell me what the Thai Ministry Of Health can do about this ?

Is it possible for you to send someone to ask these people to stop burning plastic ? And to tell them that it is seriously affecting their health as well as other peoples' ? Or to perhaps put up signs in our area saying that burning plastic is dangerous ?

Thank you for considering this matter. I await your response with great interest.

Yours Sincerely,

XXXXXXX XXXXXXXX

[cmjantje]

Until Thailand adopts a method of waste disposal where trucks come once a week to collect the rubbish the youll stop nothing, even then many will still burn it.

Of course! The rubbish collection costs money!

Beside that, here where I live there is no such thing as garbage collecting. So what shall we do with our garbage? (please don't tell me to bring it to some place where they Do collect it. That simply does not work.)

[David006]

When I was a kid a million years ago in North London ....there was a dump..great hang out for 12 year olds...always burning plastic ( just been invented?)and old tvs ( also just been invented)..all sorts of crap....we burned regular coal at home(not anthracite..it had only recently been invented ...1850 I think).....best of days was me and dad having a good old burn up in our back yard...wood , weeds, mums old underwear.. on a foggy November Sunday afternoon.

..I think it was therapeutic.....cocoa and dad wiv his pipe... !!...lol Then "in doors" for winkles and bread and butter...aaaah..!

Now in Thailand in the "boonies" I burn all our own crap as no garbage pickup ( do put our veggies in a plastic bucket till it smells then pour it next to a fruit tree or summink) ...tins and beer bottles I bag and drop 'em in at the local euphemistic "recyclers"....every time I burn ...I remember those f..cold damp winter days in "good old"? blighty....

[TigerWan]

Complain to the Or Bor Tor, I've had neighbors who were burning plastic garbage and the Or Bot Tor took a report , sent me to the police station to file a report and an officer came by later that day and made them douse it. A few months later, they did it again, I went asked it to be put out, and they did. We do get trash pick up, twice a week

Yard waste is OK to burn though.

In fact in Phuket they are not allowed to collect it.

I compost it.

Edited September 7, 2011 by TigerWan

[TigerWan]

Did you take any pics ?

The only solution is to stop making garbage. Everything must be recycled.

Okay, let's see you try to "show" a Thai how to do something. Then teach me how you did it. If you can get a work permit, farangs will hire you 24/7.

I used to live on Koh Chang and wondered where all the garbage went. A LOT of garbage on an island where there is NO place to put it.

No pick up in the daytime. Always after midnight. And who wants to follow a garbage truck on a motorbike anyway?

Naturally, when I inquired of Thai-- resort owners and even a government official who was a friend-- they looked perplexed. And why did I want to know, anyway? Uhm, just curious.

Skip ahead to two years later and a few weeks ago. Doing a bit of fishing off the coast of Trad. See something VERY big in the water passing--with almost imperceptable speed-- by Little Koh Chang, coming from the east or north side of Koh Chang. As it drew closer I could see it was a barge. Not just any barge, but 4 barges trained together grudgingly fighting their way to sea. I got close enough to see mountains of fluttering garbage on each barge. I could smell it a couple of miles away.

Skip ahead to a few days later. Walked down to the tiny beach where I'm building a house. Usually one or two days a week the beach will be littered with garbage (to be washed out by the next high tide) mostly from fishing boats--or fishing boats. There is always bottles and disposable lighters. Sometimes some hospital trash.

This day was unbeliveable.

Plastics, lighters, shoes, cups, bottles, oil filters, hospital waste such as syringes and vials, a TV--yes, a TV--huge amounts of styrofoam and more. It was impassable. It was in the water, too.

It took three high tides to take it all away.

I remember as a kid, I read where New York barged its garbage out to sea. I believe it was something like 70 or 80 miles into very deep Atlantic water--probably where the currents would take it to Cuba, or maybe England (still not right and I don't know if they still do this?--anybody?) but I'm guessing that with sophisticated fuel cost accounting by its crew ( ) the Koh Chang Express didn't go more than a few miles before it dumped in the relatively shallow waters of the Gulf of Thailand. In a diving spot highly touted by Thai tourist agencies.

What were two posters saying yesterday about how Thailand carefully watches anything that would affect tourism? Uh-huh.

DIVE KOH CHANGS NATURAL SYRINGE REEFS IN CRYSTAL CLEAR WATER! (PLEASE DON'T TOUCH THE NEEDLE FISH).

Wonder why their reefs are turning white?

Think I'll give up eating fish. Can't eat Kobe beef anymore, either.

*sigh*

Edited September 7, 2011 by TigerWan

[afarang]

And do you really believe that by approaching the Ministry of Health and the police, or the army or the marines, is going to help break the habits practiced by generations of I couldn't give a rat's behind about you poor Thai peasant folk?

I wish you luck..

Sorry ,my friend ,you are quite wrong. Your local Ministry of Health ,WILL take action .I have seen it done here.Only it was done with charcoal burners .The local branch of the Ministry . closed them down .They DO understand health hazards,and WILL take action ,if ONLY people would complain to them.Sadly ,Thais do not know that they can complain. Nor do they know who to complain too. What is needed is a big campaign to inform Thais that burning plastics ,rubber, etc is not such a good idea. They are ALL carcinogenic . That ,simply means that if you breathe the smoke ,you are exposing yourself to the possibility ,if sufficient is "consumed" of dying from Cancer. Nice?

[zzaa09]

The only solution is to stop making garbage. Everything must be recycled.

Unfortunately, these activities are inherited from the recent outside introductions of the associated mindless consumptive and related compulsions.

Stop making garbage, you say? Stop buying garabage and return to a simpler, and less intrusive, way of life.

[Heng]

Good luck and try not to end up stuffed into a large tire and doused with gasoline.

[afarang]

The only solution is to stop making garbage. Everything must be recycled.

Unfortunately, these activities are inherited from the recent outside introductions of the associated mindless consumptive and related compulsions.

Stop making garbage, you say? Stop buying garabage and return to a simpler, and less intrusive, way of life.

Absolutely!! Not so difficult

[TigerWan]

We could really change things if our voices were heard by the average Thai. We should band together and get ads written in Thai and place them in Newspapers. A group I know is contemplating a PR campaign re cruelty to animals, would work for this, too.

I was having a conversation not too long ago and many in the group really believed if they ever spoke out about anything , someone would pay, and I quote, "..5000 baht to have them offed."

They honestly believed this. When I asked, who has been killed for complaining about garbage or a thousand other inconsiderate neighbor activities, they paused and realized.. no one.

Sure some business deals have gone bad, and violent, deadly retribution was forthcoming, but really, isn't it a kind of mythology perpetuated by, well just rumour?

Edited September 9, 2011 by TigerWan

[ozzieovaseas]

Life does not sound so great amongst the 'colorful' folk in the villages. Is it too late to get out?

My mind is already gone.

Updates as they come in.

My mind went a while ago too. Thankfully my body is soon to follow.

So where will your body go Rich?? After all you have been talking about leaving Thailand for years

Leads me to think either the locals love you to mutt and won't let you go OR the farangs will not let you board the plane out

[tartempion]

Until Thailand adopts a method of waste disposal where trucks come once a week to collect the rubbish the youll stop nothing, even then many will still burn it.

Here in my village a truck comes by once a week to collect the rubbish at a cost of 20 baht (twenty) every SIX months.

Nevertheless neighbours don't use that expensive service and continue burning their trash.

I did offer to pay the 20 baht, but they declined

[cmjantje]

Today when I was driving from my home to Chiangrai via Wiengchai I thought: Ahh, That is why the streets and roads, in at least our area, are so clean. The country I come from they throw all the plastic etc on the road sides...

[zzaa09]

The only solution is to stop making garbage. Everything must be recycled.

Unfortunately, these activities are inherited from the recent outside introductions of the associated mindless consumptive and related compulsions.

Stop making garbage, you say? Stop buying garabage and return to a simpler, and less intrusive, way of life.

Absolutely!! Not so difficult

Nope. It's not that far-fetched. Mindset....and it's only a generation away.

[evanson]

Until Thailand adopts a method of waste disposal where trucks come once a week to collect the rubbish the youll stop nothing, even then many will still burn it.

Here on Phuket trash lorries turn up twice a week but the locals still prefer to dump their plastic filled foodstuffs (stink and attract rats), mattresses, post (a lot in roman script, so obviously farang) polystyrene (lots of that, cement, and the odd lav), at various otherwise beauty spots (one very large one just meters away from a large sign in both Thai and English warning of a 10k baht fine for dumping, usually surrounded by polystyrene and rotted timber). And the otherwise beautiful tree lined main road dotted with stinking bags of garbage also.

But just as the only lucrative 'fines' come from 'traffic' and 'gambling' fines, so this will continue until more easily accessible public garbage bins are provided and implementation of already in place local orborjor's littering violation penalties. No.Money.In.It, Not.Going.To.Happen. 'Though have a lot of respect for increasing (poverty worsening?), garbage samlors, whatever their motives.

[paulian]

The Thai's have been burning whatever for as long as I can remember (over 20 years) in most all provinces whenever they please. Too bad it upsets you and may be a health hazard, however, I can assure you it is quite far down on the government's list to do something about and will not change in your lifetime. If that really bothers you that much, well ........

[Latindancer]

The Thai's have been burning whatever for as long as I can remember (over 20 years) in most all provinces whenever they please. Too bad it upsets you and may be a health hazard, however, I can assure you it is quite far down on the government's list to do something about and will not change in your lifetime. If that really bothers you that much, well ........

I disagree. In Australia until the late 1980s people used to burn rubbish in their back yards. My mother used to get me to do it in the 70s, though she did ask that I don't burn plastic.....just paper. Attitudes changed, rubbish bins got bigger; the anti-smoking lobby grew. Now you cannot smoke in most enclosed public spaces, and it is accepted by most people. Things can change pretty quickly, given the right impetus and public awareness/education.

But the will needs to be there, at least amongst a core group who can get the ball rolling.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Latindancer

[craigt3365]

The Thai's have been burning whatever for as long as I can remember (over 20 years) in most all provinces whenever they please. Too bad it upsets you and may be a health hazard, however, I can assure you it is quite far down on the government's list to do something about and will not change in your lifetime. If that really bothers you that much, well ........

I disagree. In Australia until the late 1980s people used to burn rubbish in their back yards. My mother used to get me to do it in the 70s, though she did ask that I don't burn plastic.....just paper. Attitudes changed, rubbish bins got bigger; the anti-smoking lobby grew. Now you cannot smoke in most enclosed public spaces, and it is accepted by most people. Things can change pretty quickly, given the right impetus and public awareness/education.

But the will needs to be there, at least amongst a core group who can get the ball rolling.

Well put. I think the impetus would have to be harsh fines and strong enforcement. That's what happened in my home country. Burn now and it's a really big deal.

[elgato]

I like fires