Baptism Of Fire A Sign Of Things To Come For Yingluck

[Crushdepth]

Not convinced? When it comes to development projects for the poor, set aside the propaganda. Who has an established track record and the most street cred? The answer is obvious, but you can Google it if necessary. In fact, you'd have to be a brain-dead zombie to believe the rubbish pouring out of the filthy mouth of a disgusting, lying, corrupt, self-interested criminal fugitive who can't even bring himself to pay taxes and isn't satisfied with the mere office of Prime Minister.

haha, why don't you tell us what you really think of thaksin!

You have to understand, that was just a campaign speech. I love the guy.

[jayboy]

Another example of 'believing'.

The food vendors in my soi are very red and very vocal. In May last year they were very revved up.

One incident, they all came back from a rally at Rajaprasong talking about how thaksin paid off the IMF loan with his own money and didn't want any reimbursement. My Thai adult son tried to explain some facts to them, he quickly gave up because they angrily refused totally to listen. They claimed that jatuporn and others up on the stage were holding up copies of a receipt and documents that proved the money came personally from thaksin. And they also mentioned that abhisit and korn (who had make some comment that it was untrue thaksin paid the debt) were liars and should be punished.

I keep my ear to the ground for urban myths like this, but I must admit I have never heard of this one before - specifically that Thaksin paid off the IMF loan personally.I have heard wild claims from all sides but this one has appeared from nowhere.Could your Thai adult son have misunderstood perhaps?It seems odd that this particular misapprehension was apparently confined to one soi.A Google search reveals nothing except your previous recounting of this story.

And yet in this very thread, with supreme irony, a forum member Noahvail responds to your anecdote:

Quote That's a perfect example of "a lie told often enoough becomes the truth" Unquote

[metisdead]

A post containing insulting comments directed at Thais has been removed.

7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

8) Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais.

[whybother]

Another example of 'believing'.

The food vendors in my soi are very red and very vocal. In May last year they were very revved up.

One incident, they all came back from a rally at Rajaprasong talking about how thaksin paid off the IMF loan with his own money and didn't want any reimbursement. My Thai adult son tried to explain some facts to them, he quickly gave up because they angrily refused totally to listen. They claimed that jatuporn and others up on the stage were holding up copies of a receipt and documents that proved the money came personally from thaksin. And they also mentioned that abhisit and korn (who had make some comment that it was untrue thaksin paid the debt) were liars and should be punished.

I keep my ear to the ground for urban myths like this, but I must admit I have never heard of this one before - specifically that Thaksin paid off the IMF loan personally.I have heard wild claims from all sides but this one has appeared from nowhere.Could your Thai adult son have misunderstood perhaps?It seems odd that this particular misapprehension was apparently confined to one soi.A Google search reveals nothing except your previous recounting of this story.

And yet in this very thread, with supreme irony, a forum member Noahvail responds to your anecdote:

Quote That's a perfect example of "a lie told often enoough becomes the truth" Unquote

You've NEVER heard this before????????? You must do a lot of selective reading.

[noahvail]

Another example of 'believing'.

The food vendors in my soi are very red and very vocal. In May last year they were very revved up.

One incident, they all came back from a rally at Rajaprasong talking about how thaksin paid off the IMF loan with his own money and didn't want any reimbursement. My Thai adult son tried to explain some facts to them, he quickly gave up because they angrily refused totally to listen. They claimed that jatuporn and others up on the stage were holding up copies of a receipt and documents that proved the money came personally from thaksin. And they also mentioned that abhisit and korn (who had make some comment that it was untrue thaksin paid the debt) were liars and should be punished.

I keep my ear to the ground for urban myths like this, but I must admit I have never heard of this one before - specifically that Thaksin paid off the IMF loan personally.I have heard wild claims from all sides but this one has appeared from nowhere.Could your Thai adult son have misunderstood perhaps?It seems odd that this particular misapprehension was apparently confined to one soi.A Google search reveals nothing except your previous recounting of this story.

And yet in this very thread, with supreme irony, a forum member Noahvail responds to your anecdote:

Quote That's a perfect example of "a lie told often enoough becomes the truth" Unquote

You've NEVER heard this before????????? You must do a lot of selective reading.

Selective reading and selective listening. Evidently Jayboy does not listen to red shirt radio. All the folks in my wife's village "KNOW" that Thaksin paid off the IMF loan from his own money. No amount of talking can convince them otherwise. It's sad, really.

[lannarebirth]

Another example of 'believing'.

The food vendors in my soi are very red and very vocal. In May last year they were very revved up.

One incident, they all came back from a rally at Rajaprasong talking about how thaksin paid off the IMF loan with his own money and didn't want any reimbursement. My Thai adult son tried to explain some facts to them, he quickly gave up because they angrily refused totally to listen. They claimed that jatuporn and others up on the stage were holding up copies of a receipt and documents that proved the money came personally from thaksin. And they also mentioned that abhisit and korn (who had make some comment that it was untrue thaksin paid the debt) were liars and should be punished.

I keep my ear to the ground for urban myths like this, but I must admit I have never heard of this one before - specifically that Thaksin paid off the IMF loan personally.I have heard wild claims from all sides but this one has appeared from nowhere.Could your Thai adult son have misunderstood perhaps?It seems odd that this particular misapprehension was apparently confined to one soi.A Google search reveals nothing except your previous recounting of this story.

And yet in this very thread, with supreme irony, a forum member Noahvail responds to your anecdote:

Quote That's a perfect example of "a lie told often enoough becomes the truth" Unquote

I believe that's the point the person you're responding to was making.

Edited July 17, 2011 by metisdead
Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes.

[scorecard]

Dear Jayboy:

Re: Thaksin personally paid off the IMF:

1. As said, this is not a one off rural myth, it has been mentioned many many times before, perhaps you should upgrade your google skills, or be a bit more honest.

2. My Thai adult (30 yr old) son did not misunderstand, he was born in Thailand, he speaks perfect Thai and perfect English. He's an astute well informed man who follows politics in depth.

[Thaddeus]

Another example of 'believing'.

The food vendors in my soi are very red and very vocal. In May last year they were very revved up.

One incident, they all came back from a rally at Rajaprasong talking about how thaksin paid off the IMF loan with his own money and didn't want any reimbursement. My Thai adult son tried to explain some facts to them, he quickly gave up because they angrily refused totally to listen. They claimed that jatuporn and others up on the stage were holding up copies of a receipt and documents that proved the money came personally from thaksin. And they also mentioned that abhisit and korn (who had make some comment that it was untrue thaksin paid the debt) were liars and should be punished.

I keep my ear to the ground for urban myths like this, but I must admit I have never heard of this one before - specifically that Thaksin paid off the IMF loan personally.I have heard wild claims from all sides but this one has appeared from nowhere.Could your Thai adult son have misunderstood perhaps?It seems odd that this particular misapprehension was apparently confined to one soi.A Google search reveals nothing except your previous recounting of this story.

And yet in this very thread, with supreme irony, a forum member Noahvail responds to your anecdote:

Quote That's a perfect example of "a lie told often enoough becomes the truth" Unquote

You've NEVER heard this before????????? You must do a lot of selective reading.

I'll second that.

Most of the people I live with are convinced that he payed the IMF loan from his own pocket, they have seen the receipt waved in front of them, well, from a stage so distant that it could have been a bin from the nearest KFC.

It takes manipulation to entirely new levels.

[whybother]

I keep my ear to the ground for urban myths like this, but I must admit I have never heard of this one before - specifically that Thaksin paid off the IMF loan personally.I have heard wild claims from all sides but this one has appeared from nowhere.Could your Thai adult son have misunderstood perhaps?It seems odd that this particular misapprehension was apparently confined to one soi.A Google search reveals nothing except your previous recounting of this story.

And yet in this very thread, with supreme irony, a forum member Noahvail responds to your anecdote:

Quote That's a perfect example of "a lie told often enoough becomes the truth" Unquote

You've NEVER heard this before????????? You must do a lot of selective reading.

I'll second that.

Most of the people I live with are convinced that he payed the IMF loan from his own pocket, they have seen the receipt waved in front of them, well, from a stage so distant that it could have been a bin from the nearest KFC.

It takes manipulation to entirely new levels.

I'm not even talking out in the real world. It's been mentioned on here on average at least once a week in the last year.

[nurofiend]

were they not saying that his party paid off the IMF?

as in if abhisit's party did something, they would say abhisit did this?

so thaksin's party did something and they said thaksin did this

i'm not saying this is so, it's a genuine question

[Thaddeus]

were they not saying that his party paid off the IMF?

No, he and they claim that he did it on his own.

Make of that what you will, but I know what it makes him.

[lannarebirth]

were they not saying that his party paid off the IMF?

as in if abhisit's party did something, they would say abhisit did this?

so thaksin's party did something and they said thaksin did this

i'm not saying this is so, it's a genuine question

The IMF loan was due to be paid off in 2004 under the obligation Chavalit signed in 1997. During the Chuan Leekpai administration, given the baht's weakness in the wake of the AFC, exports soared. Chuan reset the schedule for the government to repay the loan in 2003. There was talk that Thaksin refinaced the loan over a longer term with Singaporean financiers but I don't have a reference for that and until I see one I'll continue to believe the loan was paid off in the course of annual budgets for that purpose as outlined by Chuan.

Edited July 17, 2011 by lannarebirth

[nurofiend]

were they not saying that his party paid off the IMF?

No, he and they claim that he did it on his own.

Make of that what you will, but I know what it makes him.

could you give me a genuine source of him saying that he personally paid it?

i can't make anything of it when it's just hearsay to me and i haven't seen evidence, i'm not doubting there is evidence as i know you wouldn't say such a thing unless it was proven to you from a reliable source, can you show me where you seen this?

[nurofiend]

were they not saying that his party paid off the IMF?

as in if abhisit's party did something, they would say abhisit did this?

so thaksin's party did something and they said thaksin did this

i'm not saying this is so, it's a genuine question

The IMF loan was due to be paid off in 2004 under the obligation Chavalit signed in 1997. During the Chuan Leekpai administration, given the baht's weakness in the wake of the AFC, exports soared. Chuan reset the schedule for the government to repay the loan in 2003. There was talk that Thaksin refinaced the loan over a longer term with Singaporean financiers but I don't have a reference for that and until I see one I'll continue to believe the loan was paid off in the course of annual budgets for that purpose as outlined by Chuan.

i was just wondering if he had claimed that he had personally paid for it like people have claimed in this thread

[lannarebirth]

were they not saying that his party paid off the IMF?

as in if abhisit's party did something, they would say abhisit did this?

so thaksin's party did something and they said thaksin did this

i'm not saying this is so, it's a genuine question

The IMF loan was due to be paid off in 2004 under the obligation Chavalit signed in 1997. During the Chuan Leekpai administration, given the baht's weakness in the wake of the AFC, exports soared. Chuan reset the schedule for the government to repay the loan in 2003. There was talk that Thaksin refinaced the loan over a longer term with Singaporean financiers but I don't have a reference for that and until I see one I'll continue to believe the loan was paid off in the course of annual budgets for that purpose as outlined by Chuan.

i was just wondering if he had claimed that he had personally paid for it like people have claimed in this thread

I do not know if he has personally claimed it. I do know I have spoken with people who believe he has personally paid it because they heard this "truth" on their Red Shirt radio and television outlets.

[nurofiend]

were they not saying that his party paid off the IMF?

as in if abhisit's party did something, they would say abhisit did this?

so thaksin's party did something and they said thaksin did this

i'm not saying this is so, it's a genuine question

The IMF loan was due to be paid off in 2004 under the obligation Chavalit signed in 1997. During the Chuan Leekpai administration, given the baht's weakness in the wake of the AFC, exports soared. Chuan reset the schedule for the government to repay the loan in 2003. There was talk that Thaksin refinaced the loan over a longer term with Singaporean financiers but I don't have a reference for that and until I see one I'll continue to believe the loan was paid off in the course of annual budgets for that purpose as outlined by Chuan.

i was just wondering if he had claimed that he had personally paid for it like people have claimed in this thread

I do not know if he has personally claimed it. I do know I have spoken with people who believe he has personally paid it because they heard this "truth" on their Red Shirt radio and television outlets.

that's all i'm getting at,

people like the poster above (IF he has no evidence) that claim that thaksin himself said this without actually hearing it from the horses mouth, are just as guilty as the red shirts for eating up propaganda without any hard evidence

[lannarebirth]

The IMF loan was due to be paid off in 2004 under the obligation Chavalit signed in 1997. During the Chuan Leekpai administration, given the baht's weakness in the wake of the AFC, exports soared. Chuan reset the schedule for the government to repay the loan in 2003. There was talk that Thaksin refinaced the loan over a longer term with Singaporean financiers but I don't have a reference for that and until I see one I'll continue to believe the loan was paid off in the course of annual budgets for that purpose as outlined by Chuan.

i was just wondering if he had claimed that he had personally paid for it like people have claimed in this thread

I do not know if he has personally claimed it. I do know I have spoken with people who believe he has personally paid it because they heard this "truth" on their Red Shirt radio and television outlets.

that's all i'm getting at,

people like the poster above (IF he has no evidence) that claim that thaksin himself said this without actually hearing it from the horses mouth, are just as guilty as the red shirts for eating up propaganda without any hard evidence

We all have an obligation to be somewhat sceptical, but let me ask you a question. Who is it do you think is the chief funding mechanism of the Red Shirt propaganda network? Because I haven't actually heard it doesn't mean there isn't a lot of prima facie evidence that he is behind promoting this idea, and a lot of other falsehoods too.

[nurofiend]

oh 100% thaksin

and i'm sure he probably does promote the idea, but someone posting that 'he said it' needs to be taken up on that i think

[Thaddeus]

oh 100% thaksin

and i'm sure he probably does promote the idea, but someone posting that 'he said it' needs to be taken up on that i think

Please... the people I know said that he said it, they also said that his entourage showed evidence of it.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...... it's probably a duck.

It doesn't matter that there may be some inconsequential evidence that it may not be a duck, the overwhelming evidence says that it is, as stated, a duck.

[nurofiend]

well in my book saying that "someone i know said someone said something" is hearsay, not fact

believing that he claimed this and actually confirming that he did are two different things, your post suggested the latter

[SteeleJoe]

There are hands driving every participant in this little thing. Thaksin is a bit more visible than some of the other players. I dont think anyone who has followed poltics over the last decade would deny that. You have a bitter power struggle between an old and new elite all tangled up in long standing social inequalities that have been around for too long coming to a head. Throw on a couple of other things and you have a right old mess

That about sums it up.

[lannarebirth]

There are hands driving every participant in this little thing. Thaksin is a bit more visible than some of the other players. I dont think anyone who has followed poltics over the last decade would deny that. You have a bitter power struggle between an old and new elite all tangled up in long standing social inequalities that have been around for too long coming to a head. Throw on a couple of other things and you have a right old mess

That about sums it up.

There's also that bitter power struggle that no one can talk about ^^^ I've heard hearsay that there may have been some funding for last years demonstration/riots from that quarter. Wholly unsubstantiated of course FWIW.

[scorecard]

were they not saying that his party paid off the IMF?

as in if abhisit's party did something, they would say abhisit did this?

so thaksin's party did something and they said thaksin did this

i'm not saying this is so, it's a genuine question

The statements from jatuporn and his gang have been very specific 'thaksin personally paid off the IMF loan'.

Edited July 17, 2011 by scorecard

[jayboy]

Dear Jayboy:

Re: Thaksin personally paid off the IMF:

1. As said, this is not a one off rural myth, it has been mentioned many many times before, perhaps you should upgrade your google skills, or be a bit more honest.

2. My Thai adult (30 yr old) son did not misunderstand, he was born in Thailand, he speaks perfect Thai and perfect English. He's an astute well informed man who follows politics in depth.

Scorecard

I'm perfectly prepared to accept I have got this wrong, and that for some reason this has passed me by.To conclude this matter can you identify some references (given my poor google skills) to the suggestion Thaksin paid off the IMF loan himself? You say Jatuporn makes this claim so a credible external reference to this would settle the matter.

Edited July 18, 2011 by jayboy

[SteeleJoe]

There are hands driving every participant in this little thing. Thaksin is a bit more visible than some of the other players. I dont think anyone who has followed poltics over the last decade would deny that. You have a bitter power struggle between an old and new elite all tangled up in long standing social inequalities that have been around for too long coming to a head. Throw on a couple of other things and you have a right old mess

That about sums it up.

There's also that bitter power struggle that no one can talk about ^^^ I've heard hearsay that there may have been some funding for last years demonstration/riots from that quarter. Wholly unsubstantiated of course FWIW.

Yes, I'm well aware of all of that. That was included in my mind in the "couple of other things" ...as was the fact that no one lives forever.

[jayboy]

Dear Jayboy:

Re: Thaksin personally paid off the IMF:

1. As said, this is not a one off rural myth, it has been mentioned many many times before, perhaps you should upgrade your google skills, or be a bit more honest.

2. My Thai adult (30 yr old) son did not misunderstand, he was born in Thailand, he speaks perfect Thai and perfect English. He's an astute well informed man who follows politics in depth.

Scorecard

I'm perfectly prepared to accept I have got this wrong, and that for some reason this has passed me by.To conclude this matter can you identify some references (given my poor google skills) to the suggestion Thaksin paid off the IMF loan himself? You say Jatuporn makes this claim so a credible external reference to this would settle the matter.

As I had expected a long silence from those who were peddling this myth.It's not a big deal and I'm not accusing anyone of dishonesty but it's a good example of how fantasy among the politically partisan can take wings.I was told the other day in all seriousness by a Sino Thai matron in my neighbourhood that Thaksin's lawyer had been responsible for the seizure of a Thai aircraft in Germany.I nodded politely.The two scenarios are much the same.