Banking For Americans In Thailand 101

[Pib]

I did a $3 ACH from BofA to BBL (via BBNY, initiated on Sep. 26, hit BBL on Sep. 30) and got 30.94 all in (includes the $3 fee from BofA and the fee, is it 500 baht max.?, from BBL).

BofA customers are exempt from the ATM fees if you have $ 20,000 in accounts or are a ML preferred customer. I never use by BofA ATM/Visa debit card for purchases when back in the U.S., except by accident occasionally. I just use my BofA credit card.

My most recent Fidelity Visa Debit Card/AEON activity on Sep. 22, was 30.41 all in.

The bbl fee is 200 baht min to 500 max

Me too....I have both a USAA account and had a BoA Military account. Canceled the BoA Military account about a year after I also got a BoA Civilian account since the BoA Military ACH transfer fee was $12 and BoA regular account was only $3. Plus, the BoA civilian internet banking was much more capable than the BoA military internet banking. No one can open a BoA Military account via online/by mail now as they are being fully integrated into the BoA civilian side. And although the USAA web site implies it's pretty much limited to military/civil service most any U.S. residence can now open an account with them....I've been happy with them so far for my basic banking although they do not have a zero percent foreign transaction fee debit or credit card (their cards charge a 1% foreign transaction fee...their cards just live in my safe due to the 1% fee) .....

BoA Mil does wires only online, no ach. $12 to domestic USA bank, $25 int'l wire, which is cheap. BoA < > BoA Mil wire is free. If you are paying a bill, it can be ACH if the billpay tells you 2 business days. If it says 5 business days, they are cutting a corporate check and mailing it out manually.

I decided against closing the account because it was convenient and still enabled people to make deposits in BoA. i did have regular boa acct 3 times, but they close it if no money is inside, or charge fees even though they SWEAR it is no fee checking.

USAA bank technically is open to most members of public. but all insurance products or anything requiring membership, you or spouse or immediate parents have to have been in some kind of military service.

Yea, I guess that BoA Mil transfer was a domestic wire which is basically no more than an ACH transfer. I would use it to transfer to my Bangkok Bank account via their NY branch and the money would arrive my Bangkok Bank account in approx 2 days. Since my local credit union charged $40 for a transfer that $12 fee was comparatively cheaper. Every once in a while BoA Mil would actually not use the Bangkok Bank NY routing number I had entered on the online form, they replaced the routing number with Bangkok Bank's SWIFT code, transferred the money, and charged me $25 for an international transfer. I would then call BoA Mil and ask them why in the heck they did that and they would refund me $13 of the $25 fee. And since a person could not setup an ACH funds transfer link to use when desired (had to fill out that online form each and every time) and BoA Civilian did have ACH funds links at $3 per ACH transfer and 1 day transfer at $25 that was enough for me to shift from BoA Mil to BoA Civilian. Just one of my "change bank" stories.

Banks are just like any other product/service in that they seem to go through multi-year cycles of being one of the best/cheapest on the block to the worst/costly on the block. When they move into that worst/costly period it's time to switch to a bank in the best/cheapest period. IMHO, BoA is in a worst/costly period of time.

[Pib]

Citi getting more fee greedy.....Link. Raise the fees slowly here and there, kinda like how the airlines started nickel-and-diming us to death and before long a good deal is no longer a good deal. Always a good idea to shop around for new banking periodically as any product/service which may have been a good deal before, may not be anymore. Heck, this slow tide rising of U.S. bank fee increases is making Thai bank fees look better (cheap) everyday.

When were thai bank fees expensive? Not sure how they do things in australia, uk, other western countries, but banking in USA was never cheap, unless you had a "free checking for life" from reputable bank, credit union, or a special affiliation like USAA, Navy Federal CU, etc. ATM machines in west rarely credit cash on the spot. One of my friends said their ATM limit for Wachovia (now Wells Fargo) was $200

The exception is [ironically] bank of america, which has cash deposits that can credit individual accounts instantly, but you cannot credit someone elses account at the ATM. Thailand banks actually has a very progressive self-service banking system IMO. 10 baht for every 10,000 baht, or online T-express offers instant crediting of 3rd party banks for 25-40 baht? and two-factor security (SMS password for certain transactions) That's reasonable IMO.

I have used both USAA and Bank of America Military......too bad everyone cannot qualify for those. You get "most" of the benefits of big bank, without the fees. If you make deposit at BoA branch, it can still take 2 business days for it to post on military account.

No, I meant most Thai bank fees are generally low compared to many U.S. bank fees...makes most Thai bank fees look better, cheaper everyday compared to other countries. But fees ain't everything when it comes to banking...safety of your money, govt rules/regs affecting use of your money, customer support, etc., are equally/more important.

[4evermaat]

.......

Banks are just like any other product/service in that they seem to go through multi-year cycles of being one of the best/cheapest on the block to the worst/costly on the block. When they move into that worst/costly period it's time to switch to a bank in the best/cheapest period. IMHO, BoA is in a worst/costly period of time.

The military / gov't targeted banks/credit unions have been the exception when it comes to consistency in fees. They usually have lower lending rates, higher credit limits, and plenty of low/no fee services. The recent PenFed move wasn't too surprising.

Public servants certainly demand the very best in banking services

No, I meant most Thai bank fees are generally low compared to many U.S. bank fees...makes most Thai bank fees look better, cheaper everyday compared to other countries. But fees ain't everything when it comes to banking...safety of your money, govt rules/regs affecting use of your money, customer support, etc., are equally/more important.

That's it also. Luckily BBK has automated much of their tasks , so you only have to call if something really goes wrong.

question: has anyone been able to wire or electronically transfer funds out of thai bank internationally as a non-thai national? How did you do this?

I'm thinking either have a separate account in the GF's name, or a joint account?

question: how do you get a debit card with your name preprinted on the card for a saving account?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

question: has anyone been able to wire or electronically transfer funds out of thai bank internationally as a non-thai national? How did you do this?

I'm thinking either have a separate account in the GF's name, or a joint account?

Are you talking about trying, as a farang, to send funds from a Thai bank to a bank in a different country such as the U.S.?

The major Thai banks typically have online methods for doing that, roughly similar to ACH transfers... But, and it's a big but, in order to do those, you have to sign up and qualify in advance... And typically the funds have to come from earned salary in Thailand... they cannot come from savings or funds you've otherwise brought into Thailand, at least as I understand it. And then the transfer has to be for just a couple of specified purposes, such as supporting family members, or educational expenses or things like that...

For the online international transfers, it does appear that the bank restrictions on Thais are much less than they are on farang.

Separate from that, the Thai banks also offer the typical in-branch SWIFT wire transfers to banks outside Thailand. Bangkok Bank's website says they will require a document stating the source of the funds... It sounds like it's less involved and restrictive than the online method, but I've never done either of them personally, so my experience on this is limited.

Here's BKK Bank's web page on the general subject:

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok%20Bank/Personal%20Banking/Transfering%20Funds/Transferring%20out%20of%20Thailand/Pages/Transferring%20out%20of%20Thailand.aspx

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just FYI, faced with a huge outcry at home and the threatened and possible loss of a lot of customers, BofA recently announced they were abandoning the $5 a month debit card fee scheme. Supposedly a number of other U.S. banks that were piloting or already charging similar fees have decided to drop them as well in the wake of BofA's move.

The reversal notwithstanding, I'm still planning to give them the heave.

And now more good news from BofA....

Did BofA (BAC) Just Put the Nail in the [its] Coffin With a Rumored $5 Debit Card Purchase Fee?

September 29, 2011 2:13 PM EDT

Reports from the WSJ Thursday rumor Bank of America (NYSE: BAC) is aiming to charge $5 per month for debit card purchase transactions.

The move, expected to begin early in 2012, will apply to those who buy items with their debit card -- not on premium accounts or for ATM withdrawals.

With $2 billion in annual revenue expected to be lost starting October 1st due to new caps on fees, BofA is taking measures to repatriate some of the loss it expects to incur.

Just to clarify...from the reports... this would be a one-time per month fee for someone using their card anytime during the month for POS.... not a PER transaction fee... Also, it most certainly would be in addition to the foreign currency fees that BofA already charges per transaction for foreign POS.

http://www.streetins...3F/6820689.html

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, there's a pair of spanking brand new AEON ATMs located on the ground floor of the new Terminal 21 shopping complex located at the corner of Sukhumvit and Asoke Roads, with direct walkway access from the adjoining Asoke BTS station.

Makes it much easier for folks in the lower Sukhumvit area to avoid the 150 baht fee that Thai banks charge on the use of non Thai card ATM withdrawals.

Two of the other nearby AEON ATM locations are in the basement level of the Siam Paragon shopping center, with direct access from the Siam BTS station, and on (I believe) the third floor/banking level of the Big C Ratchadamri center directly across from CentralWorld. That latter location is a short walk from the Chidlom BTS station.

Last time I checked, there also still was an AEON ATM in the parking structure, just outside the entry door, at the Big C store near the OnNut BTS station.... the store that used to be a Carrefour.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

God, I love BofA!!!

Today, I had a payment date due upcoming on my formerly Schwab VISA credit card, which I already knew was in the process of being converted to some kind of crappy BofA credit card with much less benefits/rebates, much to my chagrin. Though I didn't know exactly what the status of that changeover was.

So I went to log-on to the FIA Card Services (BofA subsidiary) site, which is how I normally make those payments online via electronic debit, and I discovered that I suddenly had no credit card accounts registered under my FIA log-in... And I'm thinking, &lt;deleted&gt; is going on...

But then I think about the BofA conversion, and so I guess that perhaps they've already done the conversion to BofA, so I'd better call FIA to find out what's going on. Get on the phone with them, and sure enough, the rep tells me that yes they've done the conversion, the former FIA log-in and password no longer are valid, and that my former Schwab card/now BofA card can now be accessed thru regular BofA online banking, which I already had setup for other accounts.

So I finish that call, go online to BofA, and of course, absolutely no VISA credit card listed there in my online banking profile. Call back FIA, get another rep, explain what's already occurred, and the new rep apologizes and says yes they've done the conversions as of Nov. 5, but that because of the large number of former Schwab cards involved, they won't actually be able to have the new account/card info show up in people's BofA online banking for "some days," maybe until sometime next week.

I point out to the rep that I happened to have a payment date due on tomorrow, Nov. 9, and now don't have online access to that credit card either thru the FIA or BofA web sites... (Fortunately, in this instance, I didn't have any payment owing). But I point out the potential problem, and she agrees and again apologizes, saying the way they handled it wasn't so good. And she notes, correctly, that anyone else in a similar situation needing to make a payment can call FIA and they'll do a free payment by phone.

So then I ask, anything else going to change, besides getting a new card with a new account number, and in my case fortunately not having any recurring payments linked to that account that I'd also have to re-do... And we start talking about electronic statements, wherein she discloses that when they make the transfer to BofA, they're automatically changing all the account settings to mailed paper statements, even if your prior Schwab card was set for emailed statements. So once the new account is available online, users will have to go into BofA online banking and re-select e-statements.

All I can say is, more fun and games from the banking gang that can't shoot straight.

[aurelius]

Regarding debit cards with your name on it - ask for it at the branch - it has to go to a card printing company so it takes a week or so get made and delivered back to the branch, but it is available.

[4evermaat]

Regarding debit cards with your name on it - ask for it at the branch - it has to go to a card printing company so it takes a week or so get made and delivered back to the branch, but it is available.

which bank are you referring to?

[misterdowntown]

Been Reading through this topic, and have several questions, and perhaps a liitle info/help from fellow TV readers can leed me in the right direction.

I want to transfer money funds to Thailand, as I will be in Thailand from Dec-May. I have a BofA and a Schwab account. I don't have a thai account.

Is it possible to set up an account over the phone with the Bangkok Bank in NY ( I live in LA,Ca) then transfer funds, or is there another way to get

a Thai bank account set before I get there. I would rather have this, then to bring in funds ( cash) then open an account as soon as I arrive.

Thank you one and all for your advice.

[longball53098]

Answer is no you will have to open a BKK Bank account in Thailand. NY office is not a retail branch bank and does not do normal consumer business.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The poster two above poses an interesting question...

Re the BKKB New York branch, Longball is correct... It's NOT a retail branch that provides any retail banking services to individual customers... You couldn't open an account there, even if you were in New York.

But the broader question is, can you in any way open a Thai bank account while physically present in the U.S. I don't think so... But, since the OP resides in Los Angeles, there are I believe two Thai banks that do have offices in L.A., I think in the downtown area. Check the yellow pages under banking.

I remember talking to them some years back before I relocated, and it came to nothing. But I can't recall now whether I ever asked them the exact question being posed by the poster above...

Failing that approach, here's my backup suggestion. The Schwab account is great for using in Thailand, since it's bank debit card on the linked checking account has no foreign currency fee and refunds Thai banks' 150 baht ATM withdrawal fees on foreign cards (unless you use an AEON ATM instead that doesn't charge the 150 baht fee in the first place.)

You can use your Schwab ATM card upon arrival for your routine expenses, no problem. And then open a Thai bank account after your arrival.

Then, if you open a BKK Bank account, you can avoid the expenses of international wire transfers by using BKK Bank's New York branch to route the funds via U.S. domestic ACH initiated from online banking from your BofA or Schwab accounts to the BKKB New York branch and then onward to your BKKB Thailand account at a relatively low fee cost and good exchange rate.

Unfortunately, at present, BKKB is the only Thai bank that has a setup that allows Americans to send money to Thailand by starting with a domestic ACH done via online banking out of your U.S. account. The ACH out of your Schwab account would be free/no fee. As best as I recall, BofA charges a $3 or $5 fee to ACH funds out of their accounts.

The BKK Bank web page with info on doing the U.S. domestic ACH and the fees involved is located here:

http://www.bangkokba...from%20USA.aspx

Just to be clear, what enables BKK Bank to provide this transfer service is that their New York branch somehow has a 9-digit ABA routing number that can be linked to via any U.S. account online banking setup, the same as any regular U.S. bank account. So you'd just use the BKKB NY ABA number and the full account number of your Thai account in your U.S. online banking to set up the ACH link.

BTW, to the poster above, if you call and talk with either of the other Thai banks with offices in L.A. and they have any different or better info to offer, please do post it here...

I think they're going to tell you a) you can't open a Thai account with them from the U.S. and b] the only means they have to send funds from the U.S. to Thailand is via traditional wire transfers.... But I'd be happy to be proven wrong...

Edited November 21, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[kirk0233]

I use ach transfers to Bangkok Bank through their New York branch from my bank in the US. I am told the New York branch charges 5 dollars and bank in bangkok charges a minimum of 200 baht per transfer. These charges do not show on my on-line account with Bangkok bank. Has anyone ever seen these charges itemized in their on-line statement? How is it possible to verify these charges other than call the bank? The lack of fee disclosure makes checking exchange rate accuracy difficult in my opinion.

[flying]

I use ach transfers to Bangkok Bank through their New York branch from my bank in the US. I am told the New York branch charges 5 dollars and bank in bangkok charges a minimum of 200 baht per transfer. These charges do not show on my on-line account with Bangkok bank. Has anyone ever seen these charges itemized in their on-line statement? How is it possible to verify these charges other than call the bank? The lack of fee disclosure makes checking exchange rate accuracy difficult in my opinion.

I am not sure & maybe Dave or Ian will chime in but....I think you can get an SMS with that info.

But that aside I do not find it too difficult to figure myself & it has always been 100% correct

Just take the BKB NY fee off first...

Fees Link

So in your case you said $5 so you must have sent between 1 & $2k

Lets just say you sent 2k for example....

So now you know you sent $1995 ( 2k minus the $5 fee)

Look at the TT rate of exchange for that day

Rates of exchange Link

So if sent today for example you got 31.03 at today's rates x $1995 = 61904.85 THB

Less the final BKB fee of 0.25% (minimum 200 baht maximum 500 baht)

In this case 61904.85 x 0.25% = 154.76 THB so 200 THB (the minimum)

61904.85 - 200THB fee = 61704.85 THB net

Edited November 22, 2011 by flying

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Actually, BKKB does a pretty good job of disclosing their fees for the New York route transfers...

The full list of the NY branch fees, which vary by the amount of the transfer, is here:

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok%20Bank/Personal%20Banking/Transfering%20Funds/Receiving%20Funds/Pages/Receiving%20Funds%20form%20USA%20Fee.aspx

In addition to the NY branch fee, BKKB in Thailand will charge 0.25% of your received amount, minimum 200 baht and maximum 500 baht.

If the detail of all that doesn't show up in your BKKB online banking register, you can call the bank and they'll itemize the entire transaction over the phone for you in English.

[misterdowntown]

Thank you TallGuyJohninBKK for all the info, I will post the results of my finds in Thai banks in LA.

You are sure a wealth of knowledge, and have help in my new travels to Thailand

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thanks for the compliment... Be interested to hear what the Thai bank branches in L.A. have to say...

As I said before, I think I asked them that same question by telephone once upon a time...and it was a no-go... But times and things change, so who knows....

[lopburi3]

As mentioned the SMS alert has full details and you should sign up for that as will immediately alert you of any fraud (and it is free). Format is:

John Doe has transferred THB 152,909.57 (USD 4,[email protected])from abroad into 1234xxx567

[4evermaat]

I think bangkok bank is the only free sms alert bank.most of the other ones are charging 9-20 baht/ month for the privilige. Wouldnt be surprised bbk followed suit.

[ianguygil]

The poster two above poses an interesting question...

Re the BKKB New York branch, Longball is correct... It's NOT a retail branch that provides any retail banking services to individual customers... You couldn't open an account there, even if you were in New York.

But the broader question is, can you in any way open a Thai bank account while physically present in the U.S. I don't think so... But, since the OP resides in Los Angeles, there are I believe two Thai banks that do have offices in L.A., I think in the downtown area. Check the yellow pages under banking.

I remember talking to them some years back before I relocated, and it came to nothing. But I can't recall now whether I ever asked them the exact question being posed by the poster above...

Failing that approach, here's my backup suggestion. The Schwab account is great for using in Thailand, since it's bank debit card on the linked checking account has no foreign currency fee and refunds Thai banks' 150 baht ATM withdrawal fees on foreign cards (unless you use an AEON ATM instead that doesn't charge the 150 baht fee in the first place.)

You can use your Schwab ATM card upon arrival for your routine expenses, no problem. And then open a Thai bank account after your arrival.

Then, if you open a BKK Bank account, you can avoid the expenses of international wire transfers by using BKK Bank's New York branch to route the funds via U.S. domestic ACH initiated from online banking from your BofA or Schwab accounts to the BKKB New York branch and then onward to your BKKB Thailand account at a relatively low fee cost and good exchange rate.

Unfortunately, at present, BKKB is the only Thai bank that has a setup that allows Americans to send money to Thailand by starting with a domestic ACH done via online banking out of your U.S. account. The ACH out of your Schwab account would be free/no fee. As best as I recall, BofA charges a $3 or $5 fee to ACH funds out of their accounts.

The BKK Bank web page with info on doing the U.S. domestic ACH and the fees involved is located here:

http://www.bangkokba...from%20USA.aspx

Just to be clear, what enables BKK Bank to provide this transfer service is that their New York branch somehow has a 9-digit ABA routing number that can be linked to via any U.S. account online banking setup, the same as any regular U.S. bank account. So you'd just use the BKKB NY ABA number and the full account number of your Thai account in your U.S. online banking to set up the ACH link.

BTW, to the poster above, if you call and talk with either of the other Thai banks with offices in L.A. and they have any different or better info to offer, please do post it here...

I think they're going to tell you a) you can't open a Thai account with them from the U.S. and b] the only means they have to send funds from the U.S. to Thailand is via traditional wire transfers.... But I'd be happy to be proven wrong...

The constraints on opening an account (especially your first account) while outside of Thailand relate to the AML (Anti Money Laundering) and KYC (Know Your Customer) laws. It is hard for us to ensure that somebody is who they purport to be when we can not examine their identification documents. If you are an existing customer it may be possible under certain cirumstances. I am sure all would understand the need to keep tight controls on things which may otherwise allow criminals to launder drug funds or that would facilitate terrrorist financing.

In the US (I am a citizen) it is possible to open accounts online because banks can check your ID, your credit record, if you have recently moved etc and can provide valid electronic authentication. We do not have this ability currently, particularly with foreign citizens and residents.

Our New York Branch actually does have deposit accounts (if you go to our office you will see a teller window at the front next to the office entrance door) but we do not offer these to individuals in normal circumstances and there is a big sign informing you that these are NOT FDIC INSURED. As John says, you can transfer funds between your account in the USA with your local bank and your Bangkok Bank account in Thailand totally without the need to open an account with our New York branch.

Edited November 23, 2011 by ianguygil

[ianguygil]

I use ach transfers to Bangkok Bank through their New York branch from my bank in the US. I am told the New York branch charges 5 dollars and bank in bangkok charges a minimum of 200 baht per transfer. These charges do not show on my on-line account with Bangkok bank. Has anyone ever seen these charges itemized in their on-line statement? How is it possible to verify these charges other than call the bank? The lack of fee disclosure makes checking exchange rate accuracy difficult in my opinion.

I am not sure & maybe Dave or Ian will chime in but....I think you can get an SMS with that info.

But that aside I do not find it too difficult to figure myself & it has always been 100% correct

Just take the BKB NY fee off first...

Fees Link

So in your case you said $5 so you must have sent between 1 & $2k

Lets just say you sent 2k for example....

So now you know you sent $1995 ( 2k minus the $5 fee)

Look at the TT rate of exchange for that day

Rates of exchange Link

So if sent today for example you got 31.03 at today's rates x $1995 = 61904.85 THB

Less the final BKB fee of 0.25% (minimum 200 baht maximum 500 baht)

In this case 61904.85 x 0.25% = 154.76 THB so 200 THB (the minimum)

61904.85 - 200THB fee = 61704.85 THB net

No need for us to chip in FLYING. You are doing an excellent job of explaining.....!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The constraints on opening an account (especially your first account) while outside of Thailand relate to the AML (Anti Money Laundering) and KYC (Know Your Customer) laws. It is hard for us to ensure that somebody is who they purport to be when we can not examine their identification documents. If you are an existing customer it may be possible under certain cirumstances. I am sure all would understand the need to keep tight controls on things which may otherwise allow criminals to launder drug funds or that would facilitate terrrorist financing.

Ian, thanks for the elaboration above... But I'm still trying to understand the answer to the question the prior poster raised above -- why can't an American citizen, if he/she physically went to the BKKB NY office, open a BKKB Thailand account there?

You talked about Thailand's laws and checking of documents above (presumably in the online context). But I'd assume the BKKB staff in the NY office could just as well, at least in theory, examine and confirm the necessary presented documents of someone who walked in in person as bank staff in Thailand could when someone walks in there applying for a new account. Again, just to be clear, I'm talking about the processing of a new Thailand account, not at an account based at BKKB NY.

I could ask the same question of the couple other Thai banks that have offices in L.A. and thus have a physical presence there... But they're not participating in this forum...

[flying]

No need for us to chip in FLYING. You are doing an excellent job of explaining.....!

Thanks Ian but you folks make it so easy for us.

Your website for info & account access are top notch.

Add to that your presence here as well as Dave & well

we have a very nice setup.

Thanks for all you folks do for us.

[ianguygil]

The constraints on opening an account (especially your first account) while outside of Thailand relate to the AML (Anti Money Laundering) and KYC (Know Your Customer) laws. It is hard for us to ensure that somebody is who they purport to be when we can not examine their identification documents. If you are an existing customer it may be possible under certain cirumstances. I am sure all would understand the need to keep tight controls on things which may otherwise allow criminals to launder drug funds or that would facilitate terrrorist financing.

Ian, thanks for the elaboration above... But I'm still trying to understand the answer to the question the prior poster raised above -- why can't an American citizen, if he/she physically went to the BKKB NY office, open a BKKB Thailand account there?

You talked about Thailand's laws and checking of documents above (presumably in the online context). But I'd assume the BKKB staff in the NY office could just as well, at least in theory, examine and confirm the necessary presented documents of someone who walked in in person as bank staff in Thailand could when someone walks in there applying for a new account. Again, just to be clear, I'm talking about the processing of a new Thailand account, not at an account based at BKKB NY.

I could ask the same question of the couple other Thai banks that have offices in L.A. and thus have a physical presence there... But they're not participating in this forum...

Largely because that is not their current business model and they do not have access to the systems we run in Thailand which differ largely from those we run offshore. However, this is something we can look at and consider if there is a real demand for it. I will discuss with the guy who runs our International Banking Group (i am meeting him tomorrow on another issue regarding the technology in our offshore branches). I will get back with an update after he has had a chance to consider it.

As for the other banks, as I think I said before to your other ID they are rep offices not branches, so they have much less capability (they are not approved by the US regulators to do the same things as full branches). But you can try with them if you want. But please note taht I never comment on the products or services of other banks, not in a negative or a positive way. That would not be appropriate.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Largely because that is not their current business model and they do not have access to the systems we run in Thailand which differ largely from those we run offshore. However, this is something we can look at and consider if there is a real demand for it. I will discuss with the guy who runs our International Banking Group (i am meeting him tomorrow on another issue regarding the technology in our offshore branches). I will get back with an update after he has had a chance to consider it.

As for the other banks, as I think I said before to your other ID they are rep offices not branches, so they have much less capability (they are not approved by the US regulators to do the same things as full branches). But you can try with them if you want. But please note taht I never comment on the products or services of other banks, not in a negative or a positive way. That would not be appropriate.

Thanks for that response, Ian... Re BKKB, certainly in terms of customer numbers, I doubt there'd be any large number demand for that capacity in the foreign branches, whether NY or UK or elsewhere. On the other hand, I can't imagine that adding that capacity in the foreign branches for your new/future Thailand customers who need it would be a particularly burdensome or difficult thing to accomplish. But that's just an assumption on my part. Overall, it would be a very customer friendly way of dealing with your future international customers and helping them set up their Thailand banking arrangement prior to their physical arrival/relocation in Thailand.

As for the other Thai banks, I do recall your prior response in the other thread about the difference between rep offices vs. branches, BKKB in NY being the latter. However, and this is an interesting question, I'm wondering whether a foreign bank signing up Americans in America for exclusively foreign bank (non U.S. bank) accounts is something would require branch status, or for that matter, be an issue for U.S. bank regulations at all. On that subject, I won't even venture to make any assumptions.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, there's a very useful and informative thread running now elsewhere here on the risks of using Thai bank debit and credit cards in the event they are lost and/or stolen -- risks that are far more severe and substantial than anything you face when using U.S. bank issued cards.

Basically, under the policies adopted by Thai banks, you're responsible pretty much for all fraudulent charges that might be incurred on your cards until AFTER you've called the bank to report the lost or theft, whenever or however long that takes you...and pretty much regardless of any extenuating circumstances.

The problem, of course, is that a] you might not know or realize right away the cards have been lost/stolen, giving the thief time to charge up a fortune on your card(s), and 2] any time a thief obtains a stolen card, they're going to rush to spend as much as fast as they can...because they know sooner or later the bank's going to freeze the card.

In the U.S., your liability for lost/or stolen credit cards with fraudulent charges is capped at $50 per card by federal law. And for debit cards, it could be $0 liability if it's a VISA card or $50 if it's a MasterCard, provided you report within two business days of learning of the loss/theft.

In Thailand, with few exceptions, the only things that limit your financial liability for fraudulent charges are a] the daily spending limit and/or actual balance in your account on debit cards, and b] your credit limit on credit cards, which can be quite high for typical Thai bank issued cards.

BEWARE...the oft-advertised VISA no fraud liability pledge only applies to U.S. bank issued debit cards, even if they're used outside the U.S. But that "no fraud liability" pledge from VISA doesn't protect you at all with Thai bank issued VISA debit cards. And neither do the Thai banks.

The Thai bank cards may look the same as those from the U.S. and carry the same VISA or MC logo. But when it comes to liability for fraudulent charges, the Thai bank issued ones are DEFINITELY NOT the same.

[fletchsmile]

John,

This looks like a useful thread for Americans. I notice from other threads on banking you have a habit of going off topic and providing info that isn't really relevant to a thread. The same info gets repeated again and again whether relevant or not.

The result is it often gets hijacked with a US skew, whether OP is from US or not, and loses its original focus. For most people who are not US citizens or not living in the US, US accounts are generally of little interest.

Could I suggest instead of taking the other threads off topic you post a single link to say that US citizens refer to this thread for the caveats and risks etc rather than repeat on every thread. Every banking topic I look at at the moment seems the same. The reason why you need to post a link to another thread, is you take it off topic.

This would help keep the right info in the right place, which was mentioned by OP.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thanks for that suggestion, Fletch... Indeed, I created this particular thread specifically as a place where Americans participating in TV could come to ask questions and find info about Thai banking, or U.S.-Thai banking, specifically as it relates to Americans... And of course, each country's banking setup may be a bit different from the others.

However, outside of this thread, there are a range of banking topics that get discussed on Thai Visa that aren't specific to any ex pat nation, and instead, involve all of us and the way we all together deal with the Thai banking system. Our home country practices may vary. But the way Thai banks treat us as farang tends to be pretty much the same.

Regarding the other banking threads, perhaps you wouldn't have the feeling you expressed as a non-American if more folks from other countries would contribute here in the general banking discussions their own perspective of how things work in their countries, and how that compares to the way Thailand banking functions. But unfortunately, I don't see as many folks sharing on that subject as certainly could be the case.

For instance, in the above post about credit card fraud liability, I'd really like to have heard from Brits or other Europeans, more than occurred, about what kind of protections card holders in their countries have. It would help put into better context whether what the Thai banks are doing is either the exception or the rule. But again, it all depends on whether other people are willing to contribute the knowledge they have.

[fletchsmile]

John,

Thanks for taking the feedback constructively. A few things to add:

- It's generally the US system which is often the exception to the rule. The banking system is full of issues, especially on tax that aren't relevant to people from other countries. US is probably the most litigation based, compensation based, rules based country going. Thailand is more likely to be in line with other banks in the region than US, as Bank of Thailand has much stronger links with regulators like HKMA, Bank of Malaysia.

- For credit cards as someone highlighted on the thread. Thailand is not dissimilar to other countries, eg I think someone quote Switzerland. UK is similar. It's US that is out of sync. That's why there's few other posters highlighting diffs.

- On the various threads on interest rates. One guy was looking at THB 10 -15k a month, and transferring every year. All that's needed is to state THB 50mio is the limit now for guarantees and THb 1mio next year. 15 x 12 = THB 180k per year. The US "superiority" at 250k in terms of higher guarantee is somewhat irrelevant, and there is little pointing say adding the UK "superior guarantee" is GBP 85k, and the Euro limits. This also gives only half the story on banks anyway if engaged in, as the the chances of loss in the US are higher, hence more protection is needed. It needs to be set in context and give balance.

BTW On cards. Citi has various rules on lost cards, for debit and credit and ATM. On some cars they differentiate between reported in 2 days or not, within a month or not etc. Not all are limited to $50. Even with credit cards there are exceptions to $50. Hence again it is the US rule that is the exception globally. I'd also note that there are various riders, ifs and buts within the US system on credit card liability as well. US tends to have a rule and list 50 riders, this is in line with US having a constitution and rules based legal system. Thailand's rules are more like say the UK. Less prescriptive and case by case/ case law used more. This doesn't just apply to credit cards, but whole of the legal system

Cheers Fletch

Edited December 3, 2011 by fletchsmile

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Fair enough... But even if the U.S. banking protections/rules might be different than other countries' besides Thailand, that doesn't erase the fact that IMHO they're better.... better than Thailand, and better than anywhere else that's operating similarly.

--better on bank card fraud liability. The $50 per credit card limit really is real...in any good-faith circumstance. It's a federal law, and the banks don't mess with it.

--better on government backed deposit insurance, I'll take $250K per account (U.S. banks) over $33,000 (Thai banks next year) any day.

--better on available options for avoiding foreign currency fee charges abroad. Plenty of U.S. bank choices with cards that have 0 foreign currency fee and even reimburse other banks' ATM charges.

--better on account fees... none of the U.S. bank accounts I have charge me any monthly fees, no annual fees, no fees for issuing bank cards, no fees for replacing bank cards, etc etc.

--credit card interest rates.... the U.S.cards I carry have standard APR rates of between 7 and 13 percent. Try finding a Thai bank credit card with anything other than the flat 20% APR rate.

If someplace has a better package of banking options available for the typical banking consumer, I'd sure like to know.

But I'll note as a footnote. It's equally true there are a lot of U.S. banks, mostly the mega sized ones, that will ream you on any variety of fees and other issues...outside the areas governed by U.S. law...

The difference is, in the U.S., you don't have to bank with them. You have lots of other U.S. bank and credit union choices that are consumer friendly. And that's just not the case in other smaller banking markets like Thailand, where all the banks pretty much move in lock step style.

It's up to the consumer to choose, and choose wisely. But at least the U.S. consumer has a choice.

Try to find a Thai bank that doesn't charge 20% interest on its basic credit cards... or that waives the 150 baht fee on foreign card ATM withdrawals... Or that doesn't charge an annual fee for keeping their basic ATM card... To the best of my knowledge, there aren't any... No choice... You're stuck with them.

Edited December 3, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK