Pheu Thai Could Be Dissolved For Not Acting On Poll Vows

[jdinasia]

Like I said .. it isn't that difficult to see on a map. If you are concluding that in the South that there are 50%+1 of the population that are middle-class and above in almost every constituency, then I can only surmise that you haven't been south of BKK. ever

[nurofiend]

Like I said .. it isn't that difficult to see on a map. If you are concluding that in the South that there are 50%+1 of the population that are middle-class and above in almost every constituency, then I can only surmise that you haven't been south of BKK. ever

yep, i've never been south of bangkok...you got it in one...well done.....*yawn*

so can you just give me a straight answer to my question i just asked about your opinion on the main class of people that you think votes democrat?

just a simple answer on what you personally think will do

Edited July 20, 2011 by nurofiend

[jdinasia]

Like I said .. it isn't that difficult to see on a map. If you are concluding that in the South that there are 50%+1 of the population that are middle-class and above in almost every constituency, then I can only surmise that you haven't been south of BKK. ever

yep, i've never been south of bangkok...you got it in one...well done.....*yawn*

so can you just give me a straight answer to my question i just asked about your opinion on the main class of people that you think votes democrat?

just a simple answer on what you personally think will do

asked above ... and answered with ....

This pretty much disproves the class-based argument about who votes for the Dems.

[nurofiend]

Like I said .. it isn't that difficult to see on a map. If you are concluding that in the South that there are 50%+1 of the population that are middle-class and above in almost every constituency, then I can only surmise that you haven't been south of BKK. ever

yep, i've never been south of bangkok...you got it in one...well done.....*yawn*

so can you just give me a straight answer to my question i just asked about your opinion on the main class of people that you think votes democrat?

just a simple answer on what you personally think will do

asked above ... and answered with ....

This pretty much disproves the class-based argument about who votes for the Dems.

do you not understand or grasp the concept that there has to be more people of certain social classes than others that votes for a party?!

it's impossible not to have this

which would make them the main voting class of that party, seriously do you not get what i'm saying here?

there has to be a main voting class, otherwise it would have to be spread exactly equally

[jdinasia]

Nuro --- you are working from a flawed argument. That it is "class" based in support of any party. The "big red lie" was about a class struggle but while Isaan does have some of the poorest regions of Thailand it doesn't represent all of the poor in Thailand. Plenty of people are poor in other regions as well.

I don't feel up to explaining the regional political machines/power families that are delivering up the votes all over the country tonight ... but your entire argument is flawed based upon the presumption of :class"

[Crushdepth]

Nuro --- you are working from a flawed argument. That it is "class" based in support of any party. The "big red lie" was about a class struggle but while Isaan does have some of the poorest regions of Thailand it doesn't represent all of the poor in Thailand. Plenty of people are poor in other regions as well.

I don't feel up to explaining the regional political machines/power families that are delivering up the votes all over the country tonight ... but your entire argument is flawed based upon the presumption of :class"

The Muslim population in the south also tends towards the lower socio-economic end of the spectrum. TRT did not win many voters with the Tak Bai/Kru Se massacres or with Thaksin's hardline rhetoric against the separatists - which he inflamed from virtually nothing into the serious mess we have now.

[nurofiend]

Nuro --- you are working from a flawed argument. That it is "class" based in support of any party. The "big red lie" was about a class struggle but while Isaan does have some of the poorest regions of Thailand it doesn't represent all of the poor in Thailand. Plenty of people are poor in other regions as well.

I don't feel up to explaining the regional political machines/power families that are delivering up the votes all over the country tonight ... but your entire argument is flawed based upon the presumption of :class"

plenty of international news articles state exactly the points i've made about the classes that mainly votes for the democrats, even wikipedia for god sake

you still haven't answered me on whether or not you think there has to be a main class of voters for a party, ie more than any other class

i'm not saying all middle class voters, vote democrat....i'm saying the votes that the democrats do get is mainly from the middle class more than any other class

i'm not saying it's completely class based, i'm saying that's where they get their main support

again i ask what class do you think mainly votes democrat if not mainly from the middle class, please can you just answer this question straight forwardly in your own opinion

[nurofiend]

Nuro --- you are working from a flawed argument. That it is "class" based in support of any party. The "big red lie" was about a class struggle but while Isaan does have some of the poorest regions of Thailand it doesn't represent all of the poor in Thailand. Plenty of people are poor in other regions as well.

I don't feel up to explaining the regional political machines/power families that are delivering up the votes all over the country tonight ... but your entire argument is flawed based upon the presumption of :class"

The Muslim population in the south also tends towards the lower socio-economic end of the spectrum. TRT did not win many voters with the Tak Bai/Kru Se massacres or with Thaksin's hardline rhetoric against the separatists - which he inflamed from virtually nothing into the serious mess we have now.

i agree that the muslim voters hate any thaksin related government, and for good reason....do you think they are the main voters for the democrats above everyone else?

[jdinasia]

No. The Dem support is not "mainly" middle class. The support is not "class based at all" Plenty of international press simplify the issue to BKK and Isaan. That is simply wrong.

Now --- back to the topic.

PTP could be dissolved for not acting on poll vows.

[nurofiend]

The support is not "class based at all"

joke of the century

[Crushdepth]

Nuro --- you are working from a flawed argument. That it is "class" based in support of any party. The "big red lie" was about a class struggle but while Isaan does have some of the poorest regions of Thailand it doesn't represent all of the poor in Thailand. Plenty of people are poor in other regions as well.

I don't feel up to explaining the regional political machines/power families that are delivering up the votes all over the country tonight ... but your entire argument is flawed based upon the presumption of :class"

The Muslim population in the south also tends towards the lower socio-economic end of the spectrum. TRT did not win many voters with the Tak Bai/Kru Se massacres or with Thaksin's hardline rhetoric against the separatists - which he inflamed from virtually nothing into the serious mess we have now.

i agree that the muslim voters hate any thaksin related government, and for good reason....do you think they are the main voters for the democrats above everyone else?

I've worked on development projects with few Muslim communities in the south - and my general experience is that they feel alienated from and are generally distrustful of the Buddhist-dominated government (not helped by the fact that provincial officials also tend to look down on them). They are not 'pro-Democrat' per se, its more a case of hell will freeze over before they vote for a party that murders muslims.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Crushdepth

[nurofiend]

No. The Dem support is not "mainly" middle class. The support is not "class based at all"

so even if it's not class based at all, who do you think was the main class who voted democratic or are you saying it was all classes equally?

[nurofiend]

Nuro --- you are working from a flawed argument. That it is "class" based in support of any party. The "big red lie" was about a class struggle but while Isaan does have some of the poorest regions of Thailand it doesn't represent all of the poor in Thailand. Plenty of people are poor in other regions as well.

I don't feel up to explaining the regional political machines/power families that are delivering up the votes all over the country tonight ... but your entire argument is flawed based upon the presumption of :class"

The Muslim population in the south also tends towards the lower socio-economic end of the spectrum. TRT did not win many voters with the Tak Bai/Kru Se massacres or with Thaksin's hardline rhetoric against the separatists - which he inflamed from virtually nothing into the serious mess we have now.

i agree that the muslim voters hate any thaksin related government, and for good reason....do you think they are the main voters for the democrats above everyone else?

I've worked on development projects with few Muslim communities in the south - and my general experience is that they feel alienated from and are generally distrustful of the Buddhist-dominated government (not helped by the fact that provincial officials also tend to look down on them). They are not 'pro-Democrat' per se, its more a case of hell will freeze over before they vote for a party that murders muslims.

ah i see, so their votes could have been spread out over a few parties...basically an 'anything but' mindset

[jdinasia]

No. The Dem support is not "mainly" middle class. The support is not "class based at all"

so even if it's not class based at all, who do you think was the main class who voted democratic or are you saying it was all classes equally?

Read what you quoted (my post) again .....

Now back to the topic ....

[TAWP]

i still stand by that, for people to say that i am wrong about this means they must be saying the main voters of the democrats are the rural and working class, is that what ye're arguing with me here?

To win a constituency one has to get most votes.

Are you saying the majority of the population in the south is middle and upper class?

Do you have ANY knowledge how the distribution of 'class' is here? The middle class that is the brute core of any western nation is miniscule here in comparison. So no, it is not the middle class and upper class that voted in the democrats in the South. And the absolute majority of the votes given to the democrats and the number of MP seats was gained outside Bangkok.

[sbk]

drop the baiting troll posts now or suspensions will be handed out. If your understanding of Thai politics is based on international reports then I suggest you spend more time in Thailand and travel around the country talking with people. But continued baiting with one liners will result in a suspension.

This topic is about the possible dissolution of Pheu Thai. I hope that is perfectly clear

[lannarebirth]

Phue Thai could be dissolved? Don't be ridiculous! I mean, just look at that smile.

Speaking for myself, I'd like to see a little bit more leg and tush and cleavage on the occasion of policy announcements.

[nurofiend]

No. The Dem support is not "mainly" middle class. The support is not "class based at all"

so even if it's not class based at all, who do you think was the main class who voted democratic or are you saying it was all classes equally?

Read what you quoted (my post) again .....

Now back to the topic ....

yet again, my post is referring to the fact that mathematically there has to be a main social class that votes for ANY party, simple mathematics

[jdinasia]

self deleted --- no sense in responding to what are clearly baiting posts --- that deny reality on the ground in Thailand.

Edited July 21, 2011 by jdinasia

[hammered]

More poor people vote for PTP than Dems, and more middle class people vote for Dems than PTP from what I hear on the street. That doesnt mean all poor vote PTP and all middle class vote Dem.

To give a perpsective, in the UK when Thatcher was domination everything she had the vote of about 2/3 of the middle class and 1/3 of the working class, while Labour took the reverse. Of course voting in the UK at that time was seen as still very much class based. The working classes that vioted for Thatcher were also heavily located in the South East and critically the midlands of the UK. I mention all this as it does compare closely with what we see in Thailand. I used to think Thailand was a lot more regional and less class based in voting but over time I now think it is hard to deny the division is or has become class based.

In Chonburi where I spend most of my time, it used to be very anti-Thaksin and even yellow, but over the last couple of years support for reds has surged and it is very noticeable that it is among but not exclusive to the poorer working classes where this has been so dramatic. One reason why Palang Chon was formed raher than a BJT alliance was to attract red sympathisers votes who wanted to stop the Dems from winning in the area but were scared the PTP and PC would split the anti-Dem vote. Previously the Dems slaughtered the Chonburi locals and reds. This time they won one seat. Round here the decline in Dem support and the rise in red support is very easily seen

[nurofiend]

self deleted --- no sense in responding to what are clearly baiting posts --- that deny reality on the ground in Thailand.

whatever man, it's not baiting posts :realangry:

i honestly can't believe this reaction, this is absolutely hilarious

it's literally turning into censorship of anyone who disagrees

i really, thought this place had more respect for people's right to debate and question

i can think of a lot of things that this kind of reaction to people with differing opinions equates to, but i won't even go there

i am genuinely shocked

Edited July 21, 2011 by nurofiend

[nurofiend]

more middle class people vote for Dems than PTP from what I hear on the street.

That doesnt mean all poor vote PTP and all middle class vote Dem.

and that's my simple point from the start, i never claimed the latter...just the former

yet i got (well attempted to be got) to be portraid as someone who was spouting lies and incorrect viewpoints, with great venom

[animatic]

Nuro --- you are working from a flawed argument. That it is "class" based in support of any party. The "big red lie" was about a class struggle but while Isaan does have some of the poorest regions of Thailand it doesn't represent all of the poor in Thailand. Plenty of people are poor in other regions as well.

I don't feel up to explaining the regional political machines/power families that are delivering up the votes all over the country tonight ... but your entire argument is flawed based upon the presumption of :class"

Agreed.

It is not a north south rich poor argument. The south has all classes,

but the south also remembers Thaksin not sending revenues to the south

as punishment for not voting TRT, and even when the flods and death started he continued to ignore them.... except for army appropriations.

We know how well his working the the deep south came out.

Crue Se and Tak Bai, etc so the deep south has no love to lose.

But I have traveled most all of the south, and to imagine it is all

Suthep and his buddies there and no poor,

or Phuket farangs and Samui elite everywhere and no one living in

7,000 baht purchase price housing is absurd.

I have seen this 1st hand.

The main difference is the poor here ALSO feel stepped on by Thaksin and TRT. Thai Rak Thai... except for the south... not being their target demographic to win power.

Edited July 21, 2011 by animatic

[bhakta]

Politician means one word LIAR. There is not other appropriate term. They must lie, lie, lie and then lie some more.

[nurofiend]

i'm done with this topic, if ye seem to obviously think that the main voters for the democrats are the rural and the working class thai rather than what i suggested.... then that's fine by me...that's ye're opinion

[animatic]

drop the baiting troll posts now or suspensions will be handed out. If your understanding of Thai politics is based on international reports then I suggest you spend more time in Thailand and travel around the country talking with people. But continued baiting with one liners will result in a suspension.

This topic is about the possible dissolution of Pheu Thai. I hope that is perfectly clear

Hear here, mademoiselle!

–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

I think it isn't going to cause a direct PTP dissolution,

but it will cause increasing discontent in PTP voters, and throw PTP off message, unless they sacrifice long term growth to hammer home their promises regardless of long term viability, while in the background rooting out opposition. Then win the next snap election, with the banned 111 returned, and then Thaksin puts the hammer down hard on all disenting players. Dictatorship with the facade of democracy.

In that case no amount of street opposition will hold them to earth and common sense policies. Rap-e plunder and pilage for Team Thaksin and all the rest can fade to oblivion... if therarmy roles over like a puppy to get it's belly scratched...

Seems we have two 1,200 gorilas sitting in the room with a pile of bananas in the center. While they only pluck one or two at a time, no one goes territorial, but at some point the Alpha Male MUST assert his domain.

Edited July 21, 2011 by animatic

[Ricardo]

how dare you call me a red shirt just because i put forward my opinion of the type of democrat voter, how f*****g dare you

i stated that i think the 'MAIN' vote base for the democrats is the urban population and the middle class to upper class.

it's mainly middle class as there are more middle class than upper class

i still stand by that, for people to say that i am wrong about this means they must be saying the main voters of the democrats are the rural and working class, is that what ye're arguing with me here?

I am indebted to you, for the information that the rubber-tappers & palm-oil plantation-workers of the South are all middle & upper-middle class, as I would never have guessed this otherwise, going by their living-conditions and the lack of Mercedes cars on-the-road.

I always thought they were poor working-stiffs like I myself used to be.

[LomSak27]

I think the Dems should stick to trying to toss out election results for cookery shows, or dishing out noodles.

This just seems a little too far fetched

[jdinasia]

drop the baiting troll posts now or suspensions will be handed out. If your understanding of Thai politics is based on international reports then I suggest you spend more time in Thailand and travel around the country talking with people. But continued baiting with one liners will result in a suspension.

This topic is about the possible dissolution of Pheu Thai. I hope that is perfectly clear

Hear here, mademoiselle!

–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

I think it isn't going to cause a direct PTP dissolution,

but it will cause increasing discontent in PTP voters, and throw PTP off message, unless they sacrifice long term growth to hammer home their promises regardless of long term viability, while in the background rooting out opposition. Then win the next snap election, with the banned 111 returned, and then Thaksin puts the hammer down hard on all disenting players. Dictatorship with the facade of democracy.

In that case no amount of street opposition will hold them to earth and common sense policies. Rap-e plunder and pilage for Team Thaksin and all the rest can fade to oblivion... if therarmy roles over like a puppy to get it's belly scratched...

Seems we have two 1,200 gorilas sitting in the room with a pile of bananas in the center. While they only pluck one or two at a time, no one goes territorial, but at some point the Alpha Male MUST assert his domain.

Going back to the OP --- the Dem MP (who has not filed any complaint) was pointing out that if PTP fails to "give it a go" at implementing their promises that they could be (as a party) charged with deceiving the voters. The Dem MP said that given time and opportunity, the campaign promises should be a priority for the PTP. He stated Jan 2012 would be sufficient time to see those promises acted upon and that the PTP should address the issues starting next month.

What this entails in the real world is pushing the PTP to either deal with their promises (and most probably create some significant economy issues) or to admit that what they promised just can't be done without potentially severely damaging the economy. Either way it will hit the voters hard. The Dems ran a pathetic campaign until the last weeks before the election but this is them showing that they are an effective opposition.

[TAWP]

I think the Dems should stick to trying to toss out election results for cookery shows, or dishing out noodles.

This just seems a little too far fetched

No election-result has ever been thrown out for such charges and could never be.

If you are going to argue politics it helps to get facts from more sources than a red propaganda-channel...