Road Rage In Bangkok Ends In Fatal Stabbing

[sbk]

I would suspect he was released on bail.

Oh, that's ok then..............?

Did I say that?? jeez you people need to stop reading between the lines and making up what you think other people are saying.

And just as an FYI, to all those referring to him as a "cold blooded killer" Actually, no. He lost his temper and killed the man in a fit of uncontrolled rage.

By definition, a cold blooded killer feels no emotion whatsoever:

cold-blood·ed

adj.

a. Lacking feeling or emotion: a cold-blooded killer.

b. Executed without feeling or emotion

Again before anyone decides this is some kind of justification, it is not. It is more simple facts.

[Dissolution]

I hope the victim was...

... insured.

[FOODLOVER]

I would suspect he was released on bail.

Oh, that's ok then..............?

Did I say that?? jeez you people need to stop reading between the lines and making up what you think other people are saying.

And just as an FYI, to all those referring to him as a "cold blooded killer" Actually, no. He lost his temper and killed the man in a fit of uncontrolled rage.

By definition, a cold blooded killer feels no emotion whatsoever:

cold-blood·ed

adj.

a. Lacking feeling or emotion: a cold-blooded killer.

b. Executed without feeling or emotion

Again before anyone decides this is some kind of justification, it is not. It is more simple facts.

Oh, sorry. Is piece of shit murderer better?

[sbk]

Well, it would certainly make more sense than calling a man who killed someone in a fit of road rage cold blooded.

Fact is, the guy totally lost it and in a rage, killed another man over what is essentially a very stupid thing. Its terrible and sad and I feel awful for the old man's family.

It was not cold blooded, it was not pre-meditated and I know that most courts take that into consideration when sentencing and also when considering bail.

Sorry if facts offend or if some people wrongly assume that its condoning the action. That is your own read of it and has nothing to do with what is essentially a recitation of fact. Please do not ascribe to me opinions I have not made.

[marquess]

Hot blooded murderer!

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Well, it would certainly make more sense than calling a man who killed someone in a fit of road rage cold blooded.

Fact is, the guy totally lost it and in a rage, killed another man over what is essentially a very stupid thing. Its terrible and sad and I feel awful for the old man's family.

It was not cold blooded, it was not pre-meditated and I know that most courts take that into consideration when sentencing and also when considering bail.

Sorry if facts offend or if some people wrongly assume that its condoning the action. That is your own read of it and has nothing to do with what is essentially a recitation of fact. Please do not ascribe to me opinions I have not made.

To murder a person "in cold blood" does not mean what you think and does not relate to the temperature of anything. I think we have a generation gap here Is it me, or is this type of thing increasing rapidly in Thailand. I think there is a generation of KWI idiots (16-38) who have played too many violent computer games, watched too many violent movies, have virtually no knowledge of anything, and who do not know any other way of dealing with a challenge than resorting to VIOLENCE! It is sad to see Thailand go down this road.

[katana]

Picture of the offender?

He's the guy in the blue shirt/green tee shirt at 2:09.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTZu3kxEXP8

[Payboy]

What happened to that Fortuner driver who shot the Thai Airways pilot on the motorway? His girlfriend also mentioned that he was hot-tempered.

[thequietman]

Well, it would certainly make more sense than calling a man who killed someone in a fit of road rage cold blooded.

Fact is, the guy totally lost it and in a rage, killed another man over what is essentially a very stupid thing. Its terrible and sad and I feel awful for the old man's family.

It was not cold blooded, it was not pre-meditated and I know that most courts take that into consideration when sentencing and also when considering bail.

Sorry if facts offend or if some people wrongly assume that its condoning the action. That is your own read of it and has nothing to do with what is essentially a recitation of fact. Please do not ascribe to me opinions I have not made.

not pre-meditated? tell me please why did he have a knife in his vechicle ? perhaps to clean his nails ? perhaps to pick his teeth ?

[Heng]

The 3-5-7 news did have the old guy supposedly bad mouthing the killer, but that's the testimony of the killer.

They're both in the wrong as far as being 'rude' on the roads, IMO, unfortunately one of them is wrong AND dead.

[sbk]

Well, it would certainly make more sense than calling a man who killed someone in a fit of road rage cold blooded.

Fact is, the guy totally lost it and in a rage, killed another man over what is essentially a very stupid thing. Its terrible and sad and I feel awful for the old man's family.

It was not cold blooded, it was not pre-meditated and I know that most courts take that into consideration when sentencing and also when considering bail.

Sorry if facts offend or if some people wrongly assume that its condoning the action. That is your own read of it and has nothing to do with what is essentially a recitation of fact. Please do not ascribe to me opinions I have not made.

not pre-meditated? tell me please why did he have a knife in his vechicle ? perhaps to clean his nails ? perhaps to pick his teeth ?

Since you seem unaware of the meaning of premeditated: characterized by fully conscious willful intent and a measure of forethought and planning

Are you suggesting he knew that someone was going to cut him off, he would end up in a rage and then stab this guy?

I know people who carry pocket knives with no intention to murder anyone.

Again, do not confuse explanations with apologies. It is most annoying to be willfully misconstrued.

[jjray]

I think I learn a very important lesson here. Thanks 'pomchop'.

Unfortunately I have several farang friends who seem to love to blow their horn and get very angry at many Thai drivers. There is one that i refuse to even ride with as it seems a daily occurence and when he finally gets an unwanted response from a Thai I don't want to be anywhere near it. In my opinion having road rage in Thailand has to be one of the dumbest things a farang can ever do. Keep it up and sooner or later some pissed off Thai on yaba that doesn't like anyone much less an old retired farang cursing him will pull out his gun/knife/baseball bat and that will be the end of the farang road rage.

Personally I go out of my way to keep my anger under control when I drive. Yes it is easy to get pissed off but IS IT WORTH IT if you end up dead?

Thais drive the way they do. YOU are not going to change that. If you are going to live and drive in Thailand YOU had better learn to adapt and accept it. You may find you are not so "tough" as you think when the bullets and kvives start to fly.

[thequietman]

Well, it would certainly make more sense than calling a man who killed someone in a fit of road rage cold blooded.

Fact is, the guy totally lost it and in a rage, killed another man over what is essentially a very stupid thing. Its terrible and sad and I feel awful for the old man's family.

It was not cold blooded, it was not pre-meditated and I know that most courts take that into consideration when sentencing and also when considering bail.

Sorry if facts offend or if some people wrongly assume that its condoning the action. That is your own read of it and has nothing to do with what is essentially a recitation of fact. Please do not ascribe to me opinions I have not made.

not pre-meditated? tell me please why did he have a knife in his vechicle ? perhaps to clean his nails ? perhaps to pick his teeth ?

Since you seem unaware of the meaning of premeditated: characterized by fully conscious willful intent and a measure of forethought and planning

Are you suggesting he knew that someone was going to cut him off, he would end up in a rage and then stab this guy?

I know people who carry pocket knives with no intention to murder anyone.

Again, do not confuse explanations with apologies. It is most annoying to be willfully misconstrued.

yes i am suggesting he had intention. why else would any rationally minded person carry a knife in his car.

Under state of mind (i), intent to kill, the deadly weapon rule applies. Thus, if the defendant intentionally uses a deadly weapon or instrument against the victim, such use authorizes a permissive inference of intent to kill. Examples of deadly weapons and instruments include but are not limited to guns, knives, deadly toxins or chemicals or gases and even vehicles when intentionally used to harm a victim. I also am aware of the law as regards carrying a deadly weapon and it is as stated previously. accept the to and fro of intelligent conversation and debate and try not to be condescending when you do so. a lot of people on tv are a lot smarter than you.

[Oberkommando]

I think I learn a very important lesson here. Thanks 'pomchop'.

Unfortunately I have several farang friends who seem to love to blow their horn and get very angry at many Thai drivers. There is one that i refuse to even ride with as it seems a daily occurence and when he finally gets an unwanted response from a Thai I don't want to be anywhere near it. In my opinion having road rage in Thailand has to be one of the dumbest things a farang can ever do. Keep it up and sooner or later some pissed off Thai on yaba that doesn't like anyone much less an old retired farang cursing him will pull out his gun/knife/baseball bat and that will be the end of the farang road rage.

Personally I go out of my way to keep my anger under control when I drive. Yes it is easy to get pissed off but IS IT WORTH IT if you end up dead?

Thais drive the way they do. YOU are not going to change that. If you are going to live and drive in Thailand YOU had better learn to adapt and accept it. You may find you are not so "tough" as you think when the bullets and kvives start to fly.

This is exactly one of the reasons I didn't let my kids grow up here in Thailand and they're all the better for it.

They learnt manners, they drive carefully, they respect the rules of the road and they are intelligent, courteous and polite to a fault when behind the wheel of a car. Not to mention they actually acquired some driving skills and ability before attempting to take control of a vehicle on their own.

They actually stop for pedestrians and at zebra crossings, can you imagine that!

[sbk]

That is not condescension - that is frustration with people misconstruing my words over and over again.

People tend to post OTT hyperbole and sometimes its not a bad thing to stop and think about the words we use and what they mean. No need to get personal and nasty about it.

[ginjag]

Well, it would certainly make more sense than calling a man who killed someone in a fit of road rage cold blooded.

Fact is, the guy totally lost it and in a rage, killed another man over what is essentially a very stupid thing. Its terrible and sad and I feel awful for the old man's family.

It was not cold blooded, it was not pre-meditated and I know that most courts take that into consideration when sentencing and also when considering bail.

Sorry if facts offend or if some people wrongly assume that its condoning the action. That is your own read of it and has nothing to do with what is essentially a recitation of fact. Please do not ascribe to me opinions I have not made.

not pre-meditated? tell me please why did he have a knife in his vechicle ? perhaps to clean his nails ? perhaps to pick his teeth ?

Since you seem unaware of the meaning of premeditated: characterized by fully conscious willful intent and a measure of forethought and planning

Are you suggesting he knew that someone was going to cut him off, he would end up in a rage and then stab this guy?

I know people who carry pocket knives with no intention to murder anyone.

Again, do not confuse explanations with apologies. It is most annoying to be willfully misconstrued.

yes i am suggesting he had intention. why else would any rationally minded person carry a knife in his car.

Under state of mind (i), intent to kill, the deadly weapon rule applies. Thus, if the defendant intentionally uses a deadly weapon or instrument against the victim, such use authorizes a permissive inference of intent to kill. Examples of deadly weapons and instruments include but are not limited to guns, knives, deadly toxins or chemicals or gases and even vehicles when intentionally used to harm a victim. I also am aware of the law as regards carrying a deadly weapon and it is as stated previously. accept the to and fro of intelligent conversation and debate and try not to be condescending when you do so. a lot of people on tv are a lot smarter than you.

Sounds like you think he went out that day intentionally to kill somebody, because he had a knife in the vehicle,

A vast majority of Thais carry some sort of defense, as they know what their own countrymen are like.

The guy to my mind blew it, not because of the elderly man but he had the mood at the time to act. I agree with SBK, He Lost it =lock stock and barrel.

[somchai jones]

I would suspect he was released on bail.

Oh, that's ok then..............?

Did I say that?? jeez you people need to stop reading between the lines and making up what you think other people are saying.

And just as an FYI, to all those referring to him as a "cold blooded killer" Actually, no. He lost his temper and killed the man in a fit of uncontrolled rage.

By definition, a cold blooded killer feels no emotion whatsoever:

cold-blood·ed

adj.

a. Lacking feeling or emotion: a cold-blooded killer.

b. Executed without feeling or emotion

Again before anyone decides this is some kind of justification, it is not. It is more simple facts.

Firstly, many thanks for the legal lesson. Superfluous in this case though as I have made no reference to the state of the murderer's mind anywhere in my very short post.

Secondly, thanks for including me in your collective term - 'you people'. Does the 'you people' refer to the group of posters on an open forum that don't share your point of view or just those that irritate you?

Thirdly to explain my short post, I find it absolutely wrong that a man who has taken a knife in his car and then stabbed someone with it multiple times until he killed them is then let out on bail. Whether premeditated or not, he deserves to be locked away for a very long time without having the priveledge of bail.

I also made no reference to country in my post. There have been judgements made in my own native country many times that have made me feel sick. This judgement in Thailand also makes me feel sick. I'm not arguing technical legalities or pedantics here, I'm expressing my view that in my opinion a murderer who has taken a lethal weapon in his possesion and then used it to murder should not be granted bail. You may not agree with my opinion but hey, this is an open forum right where we are ALL allowed to give opinions.

[sbk]

Indeed, you most certainly are. And when you try to imply that I mean something other than what I say I also have the right to disagree

[FOODLOVER]

Here's a newer definition for the younger crowd.

Cold Blooded

a person/persons who is considered wrong for an action they committed

Man, what you did to that ole girl is cold blooded.

To show blaten disrespect for another.

After his mother took me out for a nice steak dinner, I layed that ----- over the table and ------ her.... Cold blooded

Straight from the urban dictionary.

Edited July 21, 2011 by FOODLOVER

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Here's a newer definition for the younger crowd.

Cold Blooded

a person/persons who is considered wrong for an action they committed

Man, what you did to that ole girl is cold blooded.

To show blaten disrespect for another.

After his mother took me out for a nice steak dinner, I layed that ----- over the table and ------ her.... Cold blooded

Straight from the urban dictionary.

Cold-blooded or premeditated or other, he was carrying a knife (small, concealed, double-edge type used for close combat). He got out of his car. Note that the person who was murdered did not get out of his car (I think that is an important point). He walked over to the other car (and had time to consider his actions) and attacked the man who was sitting inside his car. He could have yelled at him and walked away or punched him, but he DECIDED to kill him. In my country he would either be on death row or in prison for life. Personally, I do not care what a person twice my age did or said, I would never assault him (unless he was trying to kill me). Some of you might find this interesting:

In Cold Blood is a 1966 book by American author Truman Capote detailing the brutal 1959 murders of Herbert Clutter, a wealthy farmer from Holcomb, Kansas, his wife and two of their children. The oldest daughters no longer lived at the farm. When Capote learned of the quadruple murder before the killers were captured, he decided to travel to Kansas and write about the crime. He was accompanied by his childhood friend and fellow author Harper Lee, and together they interviewed local residents and investigators assigned to the case and took thousands of pages of notes. The killers, Richard "Dick" Hickock and Perry Smith, were arrested not long after the murders, and Capote ultimately spent six years working on the book.

[SAffer]

In my country murderers go free.. never mind bail.

[theoldgit]

Cold-blooded or premeditated or other, he was carrying a knife (small, concealed, double-edge type used for close combat).

Where does it say that the alleged perpetrator was carrying a knife of the type you describe? I thought it was a pen knife, of course it's still wrong to draw and use it whatever type of knife it was.

Note that the person who was murdered did not get out of his car (I think that is an important point). He walked over to the other car (and had time to consider his actions) and attacked the man who was sitting inside his car.

That's not what the report says, The Nation quotes the victims son as saying that his dad did get out of the car.

A guy stepped out and despite my protest, my dad got out too. They quarrelled and fought. When my dad came back, he was holding his neck and was bleeding. He lost consciousness a short time later," Chatchawas said.

There is a lot of speculation as to whether it was premeditated or not, I wasn't there so I don't know but I doubt it very much. Maybe the guy who lost his life lunged at the perp so he is going to claim self defence, again I don't know I wasn't there. I don't though if there are levels of murder in Thailand, similar to that in the UK or maybe there is a possibility of a charge of manslaughter, if that's on the statue in Thailand, if so that might explain why he was bailed.

Certainly the red mist came down during this tragic incident, but I doubt very much if the guy got out of his car with the sole intention of killing the other driver.

Slightly off topic, how can this guy now get a fair trial having been paraded on television, with the normal assortment of goons getting getting in the photo-shoot, explaining his actions to the assembled media.

Edited July 21, 2011 by theoldgit

[random]

hi oldgit, on the tv it showed the sheath of the knife left on the floor after the murder. it would appear it was a sheath for a dagger type knife, or a larger knife sharpened on one side, it did not appear it was he casing for a penknife. My opinion it was for a knife used for the purpose of attack or self defence and not for some type of tool knife.

[SAffer]

hi oldgit, on the tv it showed the sheath of the knife left on the floor after the murder. it would appear it was a sheath for a dagger type knife, or a larger knife sharpened on one side, it did not appear it was he casing for a penknife. My opinion it was for a knife used for the purpose of attack or self defence and not for some type of tool knife.

Yeah, the act may not have been 'cold blooded'... I suspect it was a result of his blood boiling hot. We have all surely got a bit hot headed in our lives. Now, I have travelled alone at times, and I didn't always feel safe, maybe he was carrying the knife as a sellf defence tool in case he met bandits. Thais do use big knives for all kinds of purposes, so carrying one does not show pre-meditation as such. Leaving poison sweets in your car for the would be theif to eat, this is premeditation... because it was placed there specifically to kill the car theif. The same applies to booby traps to kill intruders. I suspect that he will be able to prove that he did not premeditate this murder, and that he acted in the spur of the moment- even if the knife was large.

Why? Because as opposed to the other 2 cases mentioned, carrying a knife is legal, and could be used in case of emergency for self defence, or as a tool to cut fruit you buy next to the road etc. The same cannot be said for poisoned chocolates which has only 1 purpose.

[theoldgit]

hi oldgit, on the tv it showed the sheath of the knife left on the floor after the murder. it would appear it was a sheath for a dagger type knife, or a larger knife sharpened on one side, it did not appear it was he casing for a penknife. My opinion it was for a knife used for the purpose of attack or self defence and not for some type of tool knife.

Thanks, didn't see it on tv.

[DumFarang]

The obvious question here is what kind of son sits idly by and watches his father murdered? Even if the father escalated the issue, the son's presence outside the car may very well have reduced the violence to words and accusations, especially if he'd tried to restrain the father and had attempted to calm the situation. Then again, it is the Buddhist way is it not, to avoid involvement?

Despite the Buudhist way it does seem to clash against logic on some genetic level not to step out of the car with your sixty-something year old father, especially when you see a man nearly half his age get out of the other car. Wow.

[DumFarang]

My general attitude to driving these days, and this included anywhere, not just Thailand: if you get a nutter behind you or someone is acting stupidly or agressivly: just let them go. After all they don't have the benefit of your experience and wisdom! Anyway, who wants all the hassel of an accident and trying to prove it wasn't your fault; in Thailand the assumption is you are the low class foreigner, so it must be your fault?

I would even go as far to say, I don't drive in Bangkok unless I have to. For numerous reasons, including hassel of parking, higher chance of having an accident, stuck in traffic, etc. Take a taxi or go by motorbike. Why make problems for yourself when there are easier options?

Thus the benefit of having your own vechical is to make trips out of Bangkok. The freedom of the road to go where you want, when you want.

I would add never even assert your right of way if you have a psychopathic nutcase heading towards you flashing their lights whilst overtaking in your lane. They have lucky charm amulets and even if they don't work reincarnation is a fallback option.

Good advice and funny at the same time.

[DumFarang]

Well, it would certainly make more sense than calling a man who killed someone in a fit of road rage cold blooded.

Fact is, the guy totally lost it and in a rage, killed another man over what is essentially a very stupid thing. Its terrible and sad and I feel awful for the old man's family.

It was not cold blooded, it was not pre-meditated and I know that most courts take that into consideration when sentencing and also when considering bail.

Sorry if facts offend or if some people wrongly assume that its condoning the action. That is your own read of it and has nothing to do with what is essentially a recitation of fact. Please do not ascribe to me opinions I have not made.

To murder a person "in cold blood" does not mean what you think and does not relate to the temperature of anything. I think we have a generation gap here Is it me, or is this type of thing increasing rapidly in Thailand. I think there is a generation of KWI idiots (16-38) who have played too many violent computer games, watched too many violent movies, have virtually no knowledge of anything, and who do not know any other way of dealing with a challenge than resorting to VIOLENCE! It is sad to see Thailand go down this road.

All fine, except that it's not the fault of video games or cinema. These are poor, poor excuses, and far too many people try to enter them into debates where they do not belong and consequently form a convenient scapegoat that undermines whatever real problems exist. As a lifetime gamer and movie lover (yes violent films too) I can safely say that, if anything, I've relieved plenty of aggression through these harmless outlets and often been the cooler head to prevail in arguments/altercations etc. I'm not the only person I know by a long shot, as there are plenty of gamers in the world, who fits into this category. There's also no evidence that any fault lies in games or movies, only uninformed blaming and finger pointing.

[theoldgit]

In my last post I meant to apologise to 'Awohalitsiktoli' I wasn't doubting you over the type of knife, I hadn't seen the tv shot of the knife and there were earlier comments about pocket-knives - sorry about that.

[DumFarang]

Here's a newer definition for the younger crowd.

Cold Blooded

a person/persons who is considered wrong for an action they committed

Man, what you did to that ole girl is cold blooded.

To show blaten disrespect for another.

After his mother took me out for a nice steak dinner, I layed that ----- over the table and ------ her.... Cold blooded

Straight from the urban dictionary.