Muay Thai

[DP25]

Why did OP watch it then?

So he could complain about Thais on the internet.

There are kid boxing tournaments in the US too. If you don't like it don't sign your kids up for it.

Kids in the US fighting for money at the age of 3? You must be very proud to be a yank.

Watch Baby Fight Club if you really want to get your moral outrage going, although no Thais so maybe not. Here's some 5 year old English girls fighting. Can watch the whole thing on youtube

[kerryk]

I do not claim moral superiority, but don't agree with using one's kids for income purposes and certainly not in a boxing ring. My outrage as you call it is certainly not feigned.

Just as an aside I was using my kids for income purposes when they were old enough to help me in my business mostly clean up and manual tasks. It is legal to use offspring regardless of age to work in the family business in America farm kids milk the cows before going to school at quite a young age.

My daughter quit my business at 15 years of age. I was paying her 10 bucks an hour ($4 above minimum wage at the time) she left me for a job paying 20 dollars an hour. She became a boxing instructor because of her numerous black belts. She taught little kids to fight, kind of cross between baby sitting and boxing. She had no discipline problems with the children like most baby sitters do. It was some years ago and $20 an hour for a 15 year old was quite a bit of cash. I was sorry to lose here but proud of her too.

Now she lives in NYC and makes big bucks and I don't worry about her safety. She has always been smart and tough. Smarter and tougher than me. I think that is what a father is supposed to do. She is not some wimpy nanny girl she can take care of herself. At 7 she came home with a black eye every once in a while, stuff happens.

[bangkokrick]

Why did OP watch it then?

So he could complain about Thais on the internet.

There are kid boxing tournaments in the US too. If you don't like it don't sign your kids up for it.

Kids in the US fighting for money at the age of 3? You must be very proud to be a yank.

Watch Baby Fight Club if you really want to get your moral outrage going, although no Thais so maybe not. Here's some 5 year old English girls fighting. Can watch the whole thing on youtube

Don't agree with kids being forced to fight in front of a baying crowd and people betting on them. Try to catch the documentary on TV and you will see that it is not quite the same as kids going to Sports classes. I don't have a downer on Thias, but the documentary highlighted Thai boxing. Hence my comments.

[DP25]

Don't agree with kids being forced to fight in front of a baying crowd and people betting on them. Try to catch the documentary on TV and you will see that it is not quite the same as kids going to Sports classes. I don't have a downer on Thias, but the documentary highlighted Thai boxing. Hence my comments.

I think you do. Did you watch the clip and the rest of the documentary? It's kids, in this case 5 year old English girls, fighting in front of a baying crowd with people screaming. With 400 people watching I wouldn't be surprised if someone was betting. It is the same thing. And I wouldn't take everything you see in a Thai documentary at face value, they're designed to sensationalize to make money

[bangkokrick]

Don't agree with kids being forced to fight in front of a baying crowd and people betting on them. Try to catch the documentary on TV and you will see that it is not quite the same as kids going to Sports classes. I don't have a downer on Thias, but the documentary highlighted Thai boxing. Hence my comments.

I think you do. Did you watch the clip and the rest of the documentary? It's kids, in this case 5 year old English girls, fighting in front of a baying crowd with people screaming. With 400 people watching I wouldn't be surprised if someone was betting. It is the same thing. And I wouldn't take everything you see in a Thai documentary at face value, they're designed to sensationalize to make money

Did not watch your clip. The documentary was on the NGC and was not Thai. Parts of the 'Taboo' documentary covered infant Thai boxing as well as other abuses of children. If you want to condone this fine, but i don't and was shocked to see that this is still going on in 2011.

[kerryk]

You are being culturally insensitive. Change your name to NiceWesternnannystaterick.

This has nothing to do with Thai culture. It is about Money and you know that. It always amazes me how supposedly educated Westerners from 1st world countries, who move to Thailand immediately go into retard mode. The West always talks about human right issues in Asia, but the Westerners condone this kind of child abuse. Double standards in my book.

I won't reply to you infantile remark about my screen name because that is not what this topic is about.

It has everything to do with Thai culture and your insistence that your Western culture is superior.

I am not a retard; I have adapted to my new culture.

Some parts of Thai culture are violent and immoral when judged by Western standards.

You are from a nanny state and grew up thinking your nanny morals and ways were universal. I grew up in Asia 40 years ago and don't have the same values.

You have been so brainwashed by your culture that you can't see there may be other value systems so you call me a retard.

As a young man I had an opportunity to observe Thai, Vietnamese, Korean, Australian and American cultures reaction to violence. The Americans came out last because most could not adapt quickly. The Americans who adapted quicker had a higher rate of survival. I adapted and am still alive.

I watched Thai boxing 40 years ago in bars in Thailand. It didn't upset me then and it doesn't upset me now.

I get along easily with Thai people because I accept the good along with the bad and ugly. I didn't come to Thailand to make it a better place to live. I came here to live in Thailand as it is.

Well that's all very honorable of you, so you came from a 1st world country and adapted to 3rd world standards. I believe the word 'retard' s' applicable here and it was a general comment not just aimed at you.

Well Rick I agree with you. I came from a 1st world country in 1968 and adapted to a third world countries standards. I went back home in the 1970's and found I fit in better with the third world countries standards than my own country.

I was unhappy in that 1st world country for 40 years till I got back to the third world country.

To restate, I was not happy in the West. I am happy in Thailand. Maybe the word for that is retarded.

Rick I do so many things every day that I am sure would upset you I won't list them. They don't upset Thai people. Thai people think I am just fine.

You are a good foil Rick. I like to talk to you at arms length on an INTERNET forum. In person I can see you turning red and sputtering.

I realize I am a dinosaur and hopelessly out of touch with contemporary Western society. Even my young University educated Thai girlfriend is far more liberal and modern than myself. I throw banana skins out of the bus window and she slaps me. I go up in the front of the bus for a cigarette with the conductor and she slaps me.

The bus driver is drinking moonshine, his conductor is smoking and the kids in the back are playing grab ass and all is well in rural Thailand.

[DP25]

Did not watch your clip.

Ok. So you're just anti Thai and wanted to bash them on the internet and you thought this was a unique and convenient avenue to do so, and not really interested in child boxing at all. I understand now

[bangkokrick]

Glad that we agree on something. I am not turning red and spluttering i am calm, but do not like to see kids treated in this way, by any Nationality. Enjoy you time with the pissed up bus driver and just keep him awake till you get to your destination.

[bangkokrick]

Did not watch your clip.

Ok. So you're just anti Thai and wanted to bash them on the internet and you thought this was a unique and convenient avenue to do so, and not really interested in child boxing at all. I understand now

Why would I want to watch infants boxing? It is just the thing that I am totally against and that's why I started the thread. This board is called Thaivisa and it's abuot Thai related topics. This is a Thai related topic is it not? Thai bashing I think not.

[Richard4849]

Suggest you do something constructive about it, mate, instead of spluttering about it in a forum of people who aren't equally outraged.

[bangkokrick]

Suggest you do something constructive about it, mate, instead of spluttering about it in a forum of people who aren't equally outraged.

Please define 'spluttering'. I simply posted a topic on this board which is my right as a member. Every one has an opinion even if you don't agree with it, but their are many like minded people across the world that do think that it is bad to abuse children in this way.

If your not interested why did you read the post and even reply in the first place?

[Atmos]

every thread needs pics - these two from of one of the supporting fights from kids before the adult/weight classes started.

Youngest we saw would have been 7 or 8, these boys pictured maybe 11 or 12. No headgear, no mouthguards.

Good entertainment, a lot of crowd support, the boy we were supporting, neighbour's son aged 13, won by knockout (head kick) in less than 2 min.

All the other fights were decided by the judge.

I did not feel outraged at any stage of the event.

[bangkokrick]

every thread needs pics - these two from of one of the supporting fights from kids before the adult/weight classes started.

Youngest we saw would have been 7 or 8, these boys pictured maybe 11 or 12. No headgear, no mouthguards.

Good entertainment, a lot of crowd support, the boy we were supporting, neighbour's son aged 13, won by knockout (head kick) in less than 2 min.

All the other fights were decided by the judge.

I did not feel outraged at any stage of the event.

Missing the point. The kids shown in the documentary were 2 girls aged 3 years old and 2 boys aged 5 years old fighting in front of a large crowd who were betting on them. The three year old's were toddlers.

[jdinasia]

I have posted this on most of the social networks and it's amazing the different responses that come back compared to the replies on here. It's a question of morality not culture or tradition.

Why? So you can spread the moral outrage?

JD recommended that I write to a newspaper. Social networks easier and get more coverage.

http://notthenation.com/2007/12/i-may-just-write-a-firmly-worded-letter-to-the-editor/

[bangkokrick]

I have posted this on most of the social networks and it's amazing the different responses that come back compared to the replies on here. It's a question of morality not culture or tradition.

Why? So you can spread the moral outrage?

JD recommended that I write to a newspaper. Social networks easier and get more coverage.

http://notthenation....-to-the-editor/

You have a very strange sense of humor. Nice to see you enjoying yourself..

[Atmos]

Missing the point. The kids shown in the documentary were 2 girls aged 3 years old and 2 boys aged 5 years old fighting in front of a large crowd who were betting on them. The three year old's were toddlers.

The OP states: 5 year old girls 3 feet in height

They seem tall; and doesn't anyone here use metrics?

Perhaps they were 3 year olds 5 feet in height.

Regardless I am still not outraged - it simply does not bother me; about as pointless as being outraged about climate change, bad drivers, North Korea and so on.

[bangkokrick]

Missing the point. The kids shown in the documentary were 2 girls aged 3 years old and 2 boys aged 5 years old fighting in front of a large crowd who were betting on them. The three year old's were toddlers.

The OP states: 5 year old girls 3 feet in height

They seem tall; and doesn't anyone here use metrics?

Perhaps they were 3 year olds 5 feet in height.

Regardless I am still not outraged - it simply does not bother me; about as pointless as being outraged about climate change, bad drivers, North Korea and so on.

Typo apologies. Cannot be compared with any of your examples.

[tailspin]

A wuss is someone who goes to a foreign land and presuming himself/herself to be morally superior starts changing things so that they will be more like in his homeland........a bit like a cultural imperialist.. First they want to change one thing and then another until they have recreated their version of what is right in the foreign land..........it's a slippery slope mate and cloaking your logic in scaremongering doesn't help your cause.

The content is in my OP old man. I seem to be a 'wuss" because I think that child abuse is wrong?

[paulian]

I have been involved with the kids boxing now for about five years. Much different than the Police Athletic League I was involved with back home. Do not want to go into every detail, however, most start fighting in the stadiums at about 9 or 10 years of age, if they are good. The training stars at about 6 years old. The money part is quite complicated, however, Thousands and thousands of baht are wagered on these fights and at times a child boxer my have up to 8-10 "sponsors" , with prize money growing to over 100,000 baht for a fight.

[kerryk]

I have been involved with the kids boxing now for about five years. Much different than the Police Athletic League I was involved with back home. Do not want to go into every detail, however, most start fighting in the stadiums at about 9 or 10 years of age, if they are good. The training stars at about 6 years old. The money part is quite complicated, however, Thousands and thousands of baht are wagered on these fights and at times a child boxer my have up to 8-10 "sponsors" , with prize money growing to over 100,000 baht for a fight.

Good post. You obviously know something about what you are talking. A refreshing change.

[nocturn]

It is not right in any way shape or form. The money is the motivation for the parents to do this as you well know. The kids don't have a choice and to me that is child abuse.

I have posted this on most of the social networks and it's amazing the different responses that come back compared to the replies on here. It's a question of morality not culture or tradition.

There ya go!!!! ..... morality isn't related to culture or tradition? Thanks for that update! I will let every social anthropologist know that they have it all wrong!

The only thing you seem to get right is when you add "and to me that is ....", you hit the nail on the head right there ... it is your opinion.

Your opinion is what.? As usual you skirt around the issues.

My opinion is not material nor germane to your claim that your

1)Understanding of morality and/or culture is superior

2)That the concept of what is moral is not determined by culture.

(I gave my opinion above and have not skirted around anything --- in fact I confront your claim to moral superiority quite directly ) Your value judgements don't actually interest me very much, but your feigned moral outrage is interesting.

moral outrage feigned or otherwise is rarely interesting. the OP came on here for moral validation. half his outrage is that some/most don't agree with him.

he makes this pretty clear when he informs us he has been posting this on his social network and the TV response varies from those of his chosen peers. Of course it does!!!! On Facebook you are communing with the like-minded friends you have selected whereas here you get a more random cross section. stick with facebook for validation Rick, your indignant bleating is tiresome. Perhaps you can start a "use this as your profile pic to show you care campaign".

.

I have a freind whose six year old trains muay thai in a rural gym. the kid kicks ass. and he has won money. he also loves it.

[nocturn]

Why? So you can spread the moral outrage?

JD recommended that I write to a newspaper. Social networks easier and get more coverage.

http://notthenation....-to-the-editor/

You have a very strange sense of humor. Nice to see you enjoying yourself..

thanks for pointing this out.

Rick, it is a shame you don't see the resemblance. ,

NottheNation has captured the very essence of ThaiVisa.

[Tonto21]

Personally I see nothing wrong with a child learning a martial art. Encouraging a child to take part in a martial art sport is a good thing for the child…If done for the right reason in a safe and controlled environment.

If encouraged for the right reasons participation will promote; confidence, discipline and self-control, among other positive attributes. If done correctly…..It's not about the violence!

I think,and believe, just like the OP and most people, that putting kids in a ring and getting them to 'go at it' is not right, on so many levels and rubs against our western thinking, it does for me!

But many replies on this topic fall into a typical westerner's reaction, being a Brit, I'm sorry to say but I feel we Brits are guilty of this. 'Throwing the baby out with the bathwater'

Kids fighting for money, no I don't agree. Kids learning a physically demanding discipline under close supervision, most defiantly. The wests kids are turning into 'butter-balls' with no direction or discipline or respect for anything.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Tonto21

[bangkokrick]

Personally I see nothing wrong with a child learning a martial art. Encouraging a child to take part in a martial art sport is a good thing for the child…If done for the right reason in a safe and controlled environment.

If encouraged for the right reasons participation will promote; confidence, discipline and self-control, among other positive attributes. If done correctly…..It's not about the violence!

I think,and believe, just like the OP and most people, that putting kids in a ring and getting them to 'go at it' is not right, on so many levels and rubs against our western thinking, it does for me!

But many replies on this topic fall into a typical westerner's reaction, being a Brit, I'm sorry to say but I feel we Brits are guilty of this. 'Throwing the baby out with the bathwater'

Kids fighting for money, no I don't agree. Kids learning a physically demanding discipline under close supervision, most defiantly. The wests kids are turning into 'butter-balls' with no direction or discipline or respect for anything.

Thanks for the most sensible reply on this thread. I agree on all counts and I am still shocked that many Westerners agree with "culture'

[bangkokrick]

There ya go!!!! ..... morality isn't related to culture or tradition? Thanks for that update! I will let every social anthropologist know that they have it all wrong!

The only thing you seem to get right is when you add "and to me that is ....", you hit the nail on the head right there ... it is your opinion.

Your opinion is what.? As usual you skirt around the issues.

My opinion is not material nor germane to your claim that your

1)Understanding of morality and/or culture is superior

2)That the concept of what is moral is not determined by culture.

(I gave my opinion above and have not skirted around anything --- in fact I confront your claim to moral superiority quite directly ) Your value judgements don't actually interest me very much, but your feigned moral outrage is interesting.

moral outrage feigned or otherwise is rarely interesting. the OP came on here for moral validation. half his outrage is that some/most don't agree with him.

he makes this pretty clear when he informs us he has been posting this on his social network and the TV response varies from those of his chosen peers. Of course it does!!!! On Facebook you are communing with the like-minded friends you have selected whereas here you get a more random cross section. stick with facebook for validation Rick, your indignant bleating is tiresome. Perhaps you can start a "use this as your profile pic to show you care campaign".

.

I have a freind whose six year old trains muay thai in a rural gym. the kid kicks ass. and he has won money. he also loves it.

I am also tired of you constant bleating in protection of child abuse. hey whatever 'ticks your clock' eh!

[WebBangkok]

I have no problems with it, its not something I would do to my children.

If I had a son who wanted to start training, probably 5 years old would be ok, but training only, 10 year old for a fight would be ok IMO.

But most of these families who put there kids into fighting early are rednecks and are broke as hell. Ofcourse not all, but some people are real battlers here and its easy for us to say this and that if you are not in there position.

Just like Kids selling shit on the street, for some of them if they did not do it, they would probably starve to death.

But 3 year olds fighting, I personally never seen it before but would not encourage it.

[bangkokrick]

I have no problems with it, its not something I would do to my children.

If I had a son who wanted to start training, probably 5 years old would be ok, but training only, 10 year old for a fight would be ok IMO.

But most of these families who put there kids into fighting early are rednecks and are broke as hell. Ofcourse not all, but some people are real battlers here and its easy for us to say this and that if you are not in there position.

Just like Kids selling shit on the street, for some of them if they did not do it, they would probably starve to death.

But 3 year olds fighting, I personally never seen it before but would not encourage it.

I have no problem with kids learning Muay Thai, but I do have a problem with kids as young as 3 years being forced to fight in front of large crowds who are betting on them. The money that they win will probably go towards financing their mother's gambling, alcohol or drug habit.

The legal age for professional boxing in Thailand is 15 years in large venues, so I guess what they are doing is also illegal bu Thai standards, so this is not just my standard as a Westerner.

[bangkokrick]

JD recommended that I write to a newspaper. Social networks easier and get more coverage.

http://notthenation....-to-the-editor/

You have a very strange sense of humor. Nice to see you enjoying yourself..

thanks for pointing this out.

Rick, it is a shame you don't see the resemblance. ,

NottheNation has captured the very essence of ThaiVisa.

Not the Nation is a 'shit sheet' read by nounces. You must have a great deal of spare time on your hands.

[jdinasia]

Not being legal age to join the boxing association as a professional does not make amateur fights illegal. Gambling is illegal and nobody does that in Thailand

Having a purse for an amateur fight or tournament also does not a professional make ....

[jdinasia]

Not the Nation is a 'shit sheet' read by nounces. You must have a great deal of spare time on your hands.

Messed up nested quotes deleted ....

Not the Nation is satire at its best. That you attack its readers that understand the humor and satire ... well ..... again ....