Muay Thai

[bangkokrick]

It is not right in any way shape or form. The money is the motivation for the parents to do this as you well know. The kids don't have a choice and to me that is child abuse.

I have posted this on most of the social networks and it's amazing the different responses that come back compared to the replies on here. It's a question of morality not culture or tradition.

There ya go!!!! ..... morality isn't related to culture or tradition? Thanks for that update! I will let every social anthropologist know that they have it all wrong!

The only thing you seem to get right is when you add "and to me that is ....", you hit the nail on the head right there ... it is your opinion.

Your opinion is what.? As usual you skirt around the issues.

My opinion is not material nor germane to your claim that your

1)Understanding of morality and/or culture is superior

2)That the concept of what is moral is not determined by culture.

(I gave my opinion above and have not skirted around anything --- in fact I confront your claim to moral superiority quite directly ) Your value judgements don't actually interest me very much, but your feigned moral outrage is interesting.

moral outrage feigned or otherwise is rarely interesting. the OP came on here for moral validation. half his outrage is that some/most don't agree with him.

he makes this pretty clear when he informs us he has been posting this on his social network and the TV response varies from those of his chosen peers. Of course it does!!!! On Facebook you are communing with the like-minded friends you have selected whereas here you get a more random cross section. stick with facebook for validation Rick, your indignant bleating is tiresome. Perhaps you can start a "use this as your profile pic to show you care campaign".

.

I have a freind whose six year old trains muay thai in a rural gym. the kid kicks ass. and he has won money. he also loves it.

I certainly don't need any moral validation from you or any one else. I have my own beliefs and will stick to them whether other people agree or not. You obviously know nothing about the use of social media sites. so i would stick to watching child boxing if I were you. The responses that i get are from a wide audience around the world and are very different from those that are made by the self appointed quasi Thais on this forum.

[bangkokrick]

Not being legal age to join the boxing association as a professional does not make amateur fights illegal. Gambling is illegal and nobody does that in Thailand

Having a purse for an amateur fight or tournament also does not a professional make ....

I would class anyone that does any kind of work for payment as a professional. Try working at any job here in Thailand and you will see the result.Maybe just another part of Thai culture?

[bangkokrick]

Not the Nation is a 'shit sheet' read by nounces. You must have a great deal of spare time on your hands.

Messed up nested quotes deleted ....

Not the Nation is satire at its best. That you attack its readers that understand the humor and satire ... well ..... again ....

Thanks to Mr moderator for tidying up the quotes. A a Brit I also understand satire at it's best and Not the Nation comes nowhere near.

[jdinasia]

Not being legal age to join the boxing association as a professional does not make amateur fights illegal. Gambling is illegal and nobody does that in Thailand

Having a purse for an amateur fight or tournament also does not a professional make ....

I would class anyone that does any kind of work for payment as a professional. Try working at any job here in Thailand and you will see the result.Maybe just another part of Thai culture?

Again, it doesn't matter how YOU would class people. Many amateur contests in many things have prizes that include money or something of value. My niece has won enough money to pay for college in writing contests. She is a student and not a professional writer. I have won money in contests for several things that I am not a professional at, including playing pool College athletes are all amateurs but they receive 10's of thousands of dollars in scholarships etc. The only stipulation is that they cannot be directly paid to play, but getting everything from tuition, books, fees, housing, and food all for being athletes is certainly remuneration for playing and they are certainly amateurs

I work in Thailand as a professional

[jdinasia]

Not the Nation is a 'shit sheet' read by nounces. You must have a great deal of spare time on your hands.

Messed up nested quotes deleted ....

Not the Nation is satire at its best. That you attack its readers that understand the humor and satire ... well ..... again ....

Thanks to Mr moderator for tidying up the quotes. A a Brit I also understand satire at it's best and Not the Nation comes nowhere near.

Apparently, you don't. Since, you obviously can't see yourself in the link provided

BTW --- no moderator has fixed your messed up quotes... I just deleted them since you screwed them up so badly that it could not be determined who wrote what

[kerryk]

Personally I see nothing wrong with a child learning a martial art. Encouraging a child to take part in a martial art sport is a good thing for the child…If done for the right reason in a safe and controlled environment.

If encouraged for the right reasons participation will promote; confidence, discipline and self-control, among other positive attributes. If done correctly…..It's not about the violence!

I think,and believe, just like the OP and most people, that putting kids in a ring and getting them to 'go at it' is not right, on so many levels and rubs against our western thinking, it does for me!

But many replies on this topic fall into a typical westerner's reaction, being a Brit, I'm sorry to say but I feel we Brits are guilty of this. 'Throwing the baby out with the bathwater'

Kids fighting for money, no I don't agree. Kids learning a physically demanding discipline under close supervision, most defiantly. The wests kids are turning into 'butter-balls' with no direction or discipline or respect for anything.

Thanks for the most sensible reply on this thread. I agree on all counts and I am still shocked that many Westerners agree with "culture'

You know Thai Visa is an education for some. Some people really embrace Thai culture and don't get hung up on Western morals. It is interesting to note that you feel you can pick and choose between the values that you feel at home with and the ones that make you uncomfortable.

It is good that you are shocked because that shock means you actually do understand that some people don't feel like you although they have had the same Western background. Not everybody is the same. Not everybody thinks good is the same a you perceive good. Not everyone thinks bad is the same as you perceive bad. Nor do they draw from those assumptions that one culture, opinion or whatever is better than another. My only point is to state that there are people who were raised in the West who completely disagree with you it is not just Thai people.

[kerryk]

Not being legal age to join the boxing association as a professional does not make amateur fights illegal. Gambling is illegal and nobody does that in Thailand

Having a purse for an amateur fight or tournament also does not a professional make ....

I would class anyone that does any kind of work for payment as a professional. Try working at any job here in Thailand and you will see the result.Maybe just another part of Thai culture?

Again, it doesn't matter how YOU would class people. Many amateur contests in many things have prizes that include money or something of value. My niece has won enough money to pay for college in writing contests. She is a student and not a professional writer. I have won money in contests for several things that I am not a professional at, including playing pool College athletes are all amateurs but they receive 10's of thousands of dollars in scholarships etc. The only stipulation is that they cannot be directly paid to play, but getting everything from tuition, books, fees, housing, and food all for being athletes is certainly remuneration for playing and they are certainly amateurs

I work in Thailand as a professional

Aren't they debating right now about having pro boxers in the next Olympics? And of course hockey and basketball. The issue is far too grey to decide.

[bangkokrick]

Not being legal age to join the boxing association as a professional does not make amateur fights illegal. Gambling is illegal and nobody does that in Thailand

Having a purse for an amateur fight or tournament also does not a professional make ....

I would class anyone that does any kind of work for payment as a professional. Try working at any job here in Thailand and you will see the result.Maybe just another part of Thai culture?

Again, it doesn't matter how YOU would class people. Many amateur contests in many things have prizes that include money or something of value. My niece has won enough money to pay for college in writing contests. She is a student and not a professional writer. I have won money in contests for several things that I am not a professional at, including playing pool College athletes are all amateurs but they receive 10's of thousands of dollars in scholarships etc. The only stipulation is that they cannot be directly paid to play, but getting everything from tuition, books, fees, housing, and food all for being athletes is certainly remuneration for playing and they are certainly amateurs

I work in Thailand as a professional

Congratulations and your and your families achievements. Doing the same thing on a regular basis for payment is being a professional.

[bangkokrick]

Not the Nation is a 'shit sheet' read by nounces. You must have a great deal of spare time on your hands.

Messed up nested quotes deleted ....

Not the Nation is satire at its best. That you attack its readers that understand the humor and satire ... well ..... again ....

Thanks to Mr moderator for tidying up the quotes. A a Brit I also understand satire at it's best and Not the Nation comes nowhere near.

Apparently, you don't. Since, you obviously can't see yourself in the link provided

BTW --- no moderator has fixed your messed up quotes... I just deleted them since you screwed them up so badly that it could not be determined who wrote what

I was of course being sincere in my appreciation of your help in sorting out the quotes.The thing is about satire is that not all people see it in the same way. Anyway i don'e see the kudos in taking the piss out of toddlers who are being made to fight to help support the family.

[jdinasia]

Aren't they debating right now about having pro boxers in the next Olympics? And of course hockey and basketball. The issue is far too grey to decide.

I think currently boxing and golf are the only two sports that try to differentiate between pros and am's in the Olympics.

[bangkokrick]

Personally I see nothing wrong with a child learning a martial art. Encouraging a child to take part in a martial art sport is a good thing for the child…If done for the right reason in a safe and controlled environment.

If encouraged for the right reasons participation will promote; confidence, discipline and self-control, among other positive attributes. If done correctly…..It's not about the violence!

I think,and believe, just like the OP and most people, that putting kids in a ring and getting them to 'go at it' is not right, on so many levels and rubs against our western thinking, it does for me!

But many replies on this topic fall into a typical westerner's reaction, being a Brit, I'm sorry to say but I feel we Brits are guilty of this. 'Throwing the baby out with the bathwater'

Kids fighting for money, no I don't agree. Kids learning a physically demanding discipline under close supervision, most defiantly. The wests kids are turning into 'butter-balls' with no direction or discipline or respect for anything.

Thanks for the most sensible reply on this thread. I agree on all counts and I am still shocked that many Westerners agree with "culture'

You know Thai Visa is an education for some. Some people really embrace Thai culture and don't get hung up on Western morals. It is interesting to note that you feel you can pick and choose between the values that you feel at home with and the ones that make you uncomfortable.

It is good that you are shocked because that shock means you actually do understand that some people don't feel like you although they have had the same Western background. Not everybody is the same. Not everybody thinks good is the same a you perceive good. Not everyone thinks bad is the same as you perceive bad. Nor do they draw from those assumptions that one culture, opinion or whatever is better than another. My only point is to state that there are people who were raised in the West who completely disagree with you it is not just Thai people.

You know, Kerry I never stated that people had to agree with me and that is the point of discussion is it not? By the way a number of my Thai friends also find this to be distasteful.

I am luckily in a position to choose what I agree with and don't agree with in all walks of life. It's just a shame that the young kids that I am talking about don't get the same chance.

[bangkokrick]

Aren't they debating right now about having pro boxers in the next Olympics? And of course hockey and basketball. The issue is far too grey to decide.

I think currently boxing and golf are the only two sports that try to differentiate between pros and am's in the Olympics.

They refer to 'hookers' as professionals do they not?

[jdinasia]

Aren't they debating right now about having pro boxers in the next Olympics? And of course hockey and basketball. The issue is far too grey to decide.

I think currently boxing and golf are the only two sports that try to differentiate between pros and am's in the Olympics.

They refer to 'hookers' as professionals do they not?

The IOC? I don't think they do

[bangkokrick]

Aren't they debating right now about having pro boxers in the next Olympics? And of course hockey and basketball. The issue is far too grey to decide.

I think currently boxing and golf are the only two sports that try to differentiate between pros and am's in the Olympics.

They refer to 'hookers' as professionals do they not?

The IOC? I don't think they do

Maybe they should include infant boxing in the Olympics along side providing the hookers. Sounds like a winner to me.

[GM1955]

Just got worse showing two 3 year old boys now for 15 dollars prize money. Mothers egging them on. Money number 1 again!

Says the privileged Farang coming from a welfare state who has never known a days hardship in his life.

Besides, I think its good Thai people learn how to take care of themselves, that's what terrifies Farangs about small Thai guys, they can't bully them.

And you guys with all the gob on this site, I wanna see you talk to Thai people face to face like you talk about them from the safety of a computer.

I'd certainly pay to see that !

Edited August 10, 2011 by GM1955

[bangkokrick]

Just got worse showing two 3 year old boys now for 15 dollars prize money. Mothers egging them on. Money number 1 again!

Says the privileged Farang coming from a welfare state who has never known a days hardship in his life.

Besides, I think its good Thai people learn how to take care of themselves, that's what terrifies Farangs about small Thai guys, they can't bully them.

And you guys with all the gob on this site, I wanna see you talk to Thai people face to face like you talk about them from the safety of a computer.

I'd certainly pay to see that !

Sorry did you forget to take your medication today? Your post makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[Richard4849]

The use of exaggerated, hand-flailing terms like "infant" doesn't help Rick's argument any...

[GM1955]

Just got worse showing two 3 year old boys now for 15 dollars prize money. Mothers egging them on. Money number 1 again!

Says the privileged Farang coming from a welfare state who has never known a days hardship in his life.

Besides, I think its good Thai people learn how to take care of themselves, that's what terrifies Farangs about small Thai guys, they can't bully them.

And you guys with all the gob on this site, I wanna see you talk to Thai people face to face like you talk about them from the safety of a computer.

I'd certainly pay to see that !

Your post makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I wouldn't expect you to understand, you're so blinkered.

And scared.

Edited August 10, 2011 by GM1955

[bangkokrick]

The use of exaggerated, hand-flailing terms like "infant" doesn't help Rick's argument any...

A 3 year old child is referred to a an infant is it not. Do you have some hang up's about the use of standard English.

[bangkokrick]

Just got worse showing two 3 year old boys now for 15 dollars prize money. Mothers egging them on. Money number 1 again!

Says the privileged Farang coming from a welfare state who has never known a days hardship in his life.

Besides, I think its good Thai people learn how to take care of themselves, that's what terrifies Farangs about small Thai guys, they can't bully them.

And you guys with all the gob on this site, I wanna see you talk to Thai people face to face like you talk about them from the safety of a computer.

I'd certainly pay to see that !

Your post makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I wouldn't expect you to understand, you're so blinkered.

Not at all but you are just another pretend to be Thai Farang. Give me 3 good reasons why a Thai mother would want here 3 year old infant to fight for money in a Muay Thai arena? please don't include, gambling,drugs or alcohol as I have already cited them.

[Richard4849]

The use of exaggerated, hand-flailing terms like "infant" doesn't help Rick's argument any...

A 3 year old child is referred to a an infant is it not. Do you have some hang up's about the use of standard English.

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?word=infant

[bangkokrick]

The use of exaggerated, hand-flailing terms like "infant" doesn't help Rick's argument any...

A 3 year old child is referred to a an infant is it not. Do you have some hang up's about the use of standard English.

http://medical-dicti...spx?word=infant

Well you can always rely on Google to confirm things. People in the UK refer to this age as infants and also toddlers. If you insist I will refer to them in future as toddlers because that's exactly what they were doing. Toddling towards each other and hitting as hard as they could at the great delight of the audience.Right up your street by the sounds of it.

[bangkokrick]

The use of exaggerated, hand-flailing terms like "infant" doesn't help Rick's argument any...

A 3 year old child is referred to a an infant is it not. Do you have some hang up's about the use of standard English.

http://medical-dicti...spx?word=infant

Well you can always rely on Google to confirm things. People in the UK refer to this age as infants and also toddlers. If you insist I will refer to them in future as toddlers because that's exactly what they were doing. Toddling towards each other and hitting as hard as they could at the great delight of the audience.Right up your street by the sounds of it.

[Richard4849]

Use google, then, and find me a British definition of infant that includes walking, talking three year-olds.

[GM1955]

Not at all but you are just another pretend to be Thai Farang.

LOL, you're the one that seems to be in total shock that poor people are poor, and do the things that poor people do, not me.

Prey tell, why do you live in Thailand ( If you indeed do ), did you think Thailand was a welare state before you chose to come here ?

People like you amaze me, you're the type of guy that would go into the Amazonian Rain Forrest to some lost tribe and be amazed that they don't live like you do. You need to expand your mind a bit more, maybe live a little more, you come across like you have only just left your nanny state country, go out into the real world a little, see how so many people actually live, then come back and judge.

[Richard4849]

Or better yet, concentrate on how you bring up you own kids instead of how other people bring up theirs.

[bangkokrick]

Use google, then, and find me a British definition of infant that includes walking, talking three year-olds.

You are just being infantile and concentrating on a detail rather than the main topic.

[bangkokrick]

Or better yet, concentrate on how you bring up you own kids instead of how other people bring up theirs.

I already brought up my own kids thanks and decided that putting them in a boxing ring to make my living was not the right thing to do. Hey called me old fashioned, but I believe in taking care of ones kids rather than using them to make money.

[GM1955]

Use google, then, and find me a British definition of infant that includes walking, talking three year-olds.

You are just being infantile and concentrating on a detail rather than the main topic.

You just want an argument.

On ThaiVisa I'm banned from arguing, and as you are 55 years old, you're too old to argue anywhere else.

Again, I think you're an idiot, you came to Thailand by choice, for what reason, only you know, then you seem amazed that poorer people than you don't live the same as you !!!

Didn't you know that ?

Unbelievable, and to be honest arrogant and extremely shortsighted.

Edited August 10, 2011 by GM1955

[bangkokrick]

Not at all but you are just another pretend to be Thai Farang.

LOL, you're the one that seems to be in total shock that poor people are poor, and do the things that poor people do, not me.

Prey tell, why do you live in Thailand ( If you indeed do ), did you think Thailand was a welare state before you chose to come here ?

People like you amaze me, you're the type of guy that would go into the Amazonian Rain Forrest to some lost tribe and be amazed that they don't live like you do. You need to expand your mind a bit more, maybe live a little more, you come across like you have only just left your nanny state country, go out into the real world a little, see how so many people actually live, then come back and judge.

You are wrong on all counts regarding my background, but yes I have lived in Thailand for many years and will probably continue to do so. I personally find some things to be good and somethings to be bad, but that is the same in all countries. I also have the right to voice my opinion on this forum as many other people do.