Minimum Wage Proposal Causing Great Anxiety

[TAWP]

Try it.....if one of your highly paid staff chooses to depart then you pay 20 of your under the minimum wage staff the 300 minimum......

Do you know how a company operates?

We don't have any senior staff that is redundant, so if one departs that position would be needed to be filled.

We don't have anyone paid even close to the minimum wage. But again, if all of the normal staff eats at the food-court and their prices goes up with 10-15%, I expect many to want salary-increases to cover for that. And so on...

[Ijustwannateach]

Just wanted to jump in and comment that this use of 'scientific' in the OP to imply that somehow science makes rational decisions (especially about such culturally embedded things as wages, economics, etc.) that are immune to sociocultural influences and consequences is nonsense. And it is one of the factors leading to the regrettable mystification of science which leads to a great amount of public misunderstanding.

The problem is that to make the public clearly understand, a great deal of education would be necessary and yet again, in the pinch there's no time. Of course if you print a whole bunch of baht everyone will be rich, right?

[473geo]

Just wanted to jump in and comment that this use of 'scientific' in the OP to imply that somehow science makes rational decisions (especially about such culturally embedded things as wages, economics, etc.) that are immune to sociocultural influences and consequences is nonsense. And it is one of the factors leading to the regrettable mystification of science which leads to a great amount of public misunderstanding.

The problem is that to make the public clearly understand, a great deal of education would be necessary and yet again, in the pinch there's no time. Of course if you print a whole bunch of baht everyone will be rich, right?

I just want to state that a scientific approach establishes the basic facts.............from which you can then go on to factor in other considerations........or you can of course suck your finger stick it in the air and see which way the wind is blowing, to assist you in your decision making

[473geo]

Try it.....if one of your highly paid staff chooses to depart then you pay 20 of your under the minimum wage staff the 300 minimum......

Do you know how a company operates?

We don't have any senior staff that is redundant, so if one departs that position would be needed to be filled.

We don't have anyone paid even close to the minimum wage. But again, if all of the normal staff eats at the food-court and their prices goes up with 10-15%, I expect many to want salary-increases to cover for that. And so on...

You are not directly affected by the increase in the minimum wage, other than it may increase the price of food!! and your staff may want a payrise so they can eat well at the food court, where prices may rise because of the minimum wage, which could close your business as you cannot re-destribute any of the work of a senior employee to other existing staff, even though you feel you would have to give them a payrise to cover the astronomical rise in the food court prices.

Just one question, how do you think the people on the minimum wage working in the food courts would cope, if fuel prices rise, and the food court prices go up......and their employers are neither as generous or as gracious as you?

[jdinasia]

Just wanted to jump in and comment that this use of 'scientific' in the OP to imply that somehow science makes rational decisions (especially about such culturally embedded things as wages, economics, etc.) that are immune to sociocultural influences and consequences is nonsense. And it is one of the factors leading to the regrettable mystification of science which leads to a great amount of public misunderstanding.

The problem is that to make the public clearly understand, a great deal of education would be necessary and yet again, in the pinch there's no time. Of course if you print a whole bunch of baht everyone will be rich, right?

Apparently some people think that money does, in fact, grow on trees

[chops]

I really have a lot of respect for the labor movement here. They had the guts to demand a solid minimum wage.

On the other hand, in america(where I come from), they feel like they owe it to the rich just to have a job. Idiots. Is it any wonder they are constantly whining about not having enough money to pay the bills and the inequality widening?

[scorecard]

Is it possible to reproduce a few editorials which haven't been drafted by the Democrats? There's nothing wrong with being critical of the government but the stuff which gets posted here is ludicrously one-sided.

Perhaps you would like to to add some.

Edited July 31, 2011 by scorecard

[TAWP]

You are not directly affected by the increase in the minimum wage, other than it may increase the price of food!! and your staff may want a payrise so they can eat well at the food court, where prices may rise because of the minimum wage, which could close your business as you cannot re-destribute any of the work of a senior employee to other existing staff, even though you feel you would have to give them a payrise to cover the astronomical rise in the food court prices.

Just one question, how do you think the people on the minimum wage working in the food courts would cope, if fuel prices rise, and the food court prices go up......and their employers are neither as generous or as gracious as you?

You read as you understand the world - poorly.

The company I work for aren't threatened by the wage-increase. This increase will not, in a larger picture, threaten our operations here.

But it is ignorant to not think that a raise of the minimum wage will not cause a ripple-effect nor that it will cause - if an employer wants to be fair - wage-increases far outside the minimum wage salary bracket.

And your last questions is goes towards my point.

And the ones being hit the most with inflation is the poorest, always.

[monkfish]

Not sure about others but my minimum what I pay is 7500

I do not think I could find anyone work for 4000 and would not pay that because thats ridiculously low.

9 hour days, 6 days per week

I have a couple questions to those foreigners paying Thai's the minimum wage.

1. How much do you pay your staff per month?

2. How many hours do they work for that salary.

The lowest minimum salary in Thailand I believe is THB 151 per day and to my calculations based on a 6 day working week equates to THB 3624 per month !!

In Phuket I believe the minimum salary is THB 204 per day which equates to THB 4896 per month

In my opinion this is nothing but slave labour!

In that case the new minimum wage will not effect your business as you already pay MORE than the new minimum wage.

I don't think it will effect many businesses South of Bangkok unless they own a sweat shop up North.

Indeed it would also be impossible to find workers here in Pattaya for THB 4000 per month, even Illegal Burmese workers get 6000.

I agree it is ridiculously low and that's with a 6 day week and not 5 like the west.

[kuffki]

Not sure about others but my minimum what I pay is 7500

I do not think I could find anyone work for 4000 and would not pay that because thats ridiculously low.

9 hour days, 6 days per week

I have a couple questions to those foreigners paying Thai's the minimum wage.

1. How much do you pay your staff per month?

2. How many hours do they work for that salary.

The lowest minimum salary in Thailand I believe is THB 151 per day and to my calculations based on a 6 day working week equates to THB 3624 per month !!

In Phuket I believe the minimum salary is THB 204 per day which equates to THB 4896 per month

In my opinion this is nothing but slave labour!

In that case the new minimum wage will not effect your business as you already pay MORE than the new minimum wage.

I don't think it will effect many businesses South of Bangkok unless they own a sweat shop up North.

Indeed it would also be impossible to find workers here in Pattaya for THB 4000 per month, even Illegal Burmese workers get 6000.

I agree it is ridiculously low and that's with a 6 day week and not 5 like the west.

Incorrect! the new minimum wage would be 9000 per month compared to 7500(what i pay now) to make my staff more appreciated and go in line with the pay rise, i would need to pay them 11000. So thats almost double to my wage expense.

plus the useless ones now would be up to 9000, so total monthly wages would double, no choice but to either fire half or put up the prices-same will be in all other businesses.

Take big C for example where they have hundreds on staff on payroll for each store, now add approx 300 000-500 000 to their monthly wages and watch prices grow over night.

[kuffki]

I really have a lot of respect for the labor movement here. They had the guts to demand a solid minimum wage.

On the other hand, in america(where I come from), they feel like they owe it to the rich just to have a job. Idiots. Is it any wonder they are constantly whining about not having enough money to pay the bills and the inequality widening?

So who do they owe it to? if not the rich who open business and employ them

Also perhaps you have not caught up yet but it WAS NOT the labor movement who had the guts but the balloting party who wanted to win votes at any expense

[whatsupdoc]

In that case the new minimum wage will not effect your business as you already pay MORE than the new minimum wage.

I don't think it will effect many businesses South of Bangkok unless they own a sweat shop up North.

Indeed it would also be impossible to find workers here in Pattaya for THB 4000 per month, even Illegal Burmese workers get 6000.

I agree it is ridiculously low and that's with a 6 day week and not 5 like the west.

If the minimum wage increase leads to higher prices everybody will want a wage increase, again leading to higher prices..... Most likely every business will be effected.

[473geo]

You are not directly affected by the increase in the minimum wage, other than it may increase the price of food!! and your staff may want a payrise so they can eat well at the food court, where prices may rise because of the minimum wage, which could close your business as you cannot re-destribute any of the work of a senior employee to other existing staff, even though you feel you would have to give them a payrise to cover the astronomical rise in the food court prices.

Just one question, how do you think the people on the minimum wage working in the food courts would cope, if fuel prices rise, and the food court prices go up......and their employers are neither as generous or as gracious as you?

You read as you understand the world - poorly.

The company I work for aren't threatened by the wage-increase. This increase will not, in a larger picture, threaten our operations here.

But it is ignorant to not think that a raise of the minimum wage will not cause a ripple-effect nor that it will cause - if an employer wants to be fair - wage-increases far outside the minimum wage salary bracket.

And your last questions is goes towards my point.

And the ones being hit the most with inflation is the poorest, always.

Why did you post your second line........did you not understand my words "you are not directly affected by the increase in the minimum wage"

If inflation is controlled and the minimum wage is increased well above the percentage level of inflation.......the people receiving the increase benefit.....this is the intention.....should a company wish or can afford to maintain the disparity between the minimum wage earners and other employeees will be down to the individuals making those decisions, but that is what the raising of the minimum wage is about, if companies can maintain the disparity good luck to them, the idea of raising the minimum wage is surely to close the disparity, by first insisting the lower paid receive the first benifit.It is my belief that if an across the board percentage to counter inflation is utilised.....the disparity grows.

[TAWP]

If the minimum wage increase leads to higher prices everybody will want a wage increase, again leading to higher prices..... Most likely every business will be effected.

And those not employed, doing casual jobs (payed per job, not hour etc), retired...will end up losing.

[jdinasia]

If the minimum wage increase leads to higher prices everybody will want a wage increase, again leading to higher prices..... Most likely every business will be effected.

And those not employed, doing casual jobs (payed per job, not hour etc), retired...will end up losing.

Not to mention lost jobs, work relocating for economic reasons. an inflation spiral etc etc .. but hey ... promise anything .....

[473geo]

If the minimum wage increase leads to higher prices everybody will want a wage increase, again leading to higher prices..... Most likely every business will be effected.

And those not employed, doing casual jobs (payed per job, not hour etc), retired...will end up losing.

Will these casual labouring positions just disappear?

[TAWP]

If the minimum wage increase leads to higher prices everybody will want a wage increase, again leading to higher prices..... Most likely every business will be effected.

And those not employed, doing casual jobs (payed per job, not hour etc), retired...will end up losing.

Will these casual labouring positions just disappear?

You are thinking people will pay more suddenly, for no gain?

Alright, if we assume you are right and people not being greedy...apart from this being your argument for minimum wage in the first place, how will unemployed people, beggars, retired people...gain from raised prices?

[JimGant]

Take big C for example where they have hundreds on staff on payroll for each store, now add approx 300 000-500 000 to their monthly wages and watch prices grow over night

Put all the sales pukes on straight commission. Those who want to pick their butts -- or give wrong answers to customers (instead of, "I'll go find out") -- would, hopefully, learn to do better. Or 'retire.'

Not sure, however, how the "minimum wage police" would deal with such a pure system of reward.

[kuffki]

Take big C for example where they have hundreds on staff on payroll for each store, now add approx 300 000-500 000 to their monthly wages and watch prices grow over night

Put all the sales pukes on straight commission. Those who want to pick their butts -- or give wrong answers to customers (instead of, "I'll go find out") -- would, hopefully, learn to do better. Or 'retire.'

Not sure, however, how the "minimum wage police" would deal with such a pure system of reward.

i think they already have that, this is why when you buy something like a TV, the sales person runs infront of you to give his "id card" to scan. but i still think they get minimum wage.

If not, i believe the stores will seriously struggle because most of the "sales pukes" will resign if they do not get the base, because to resign is much easier than to learn about the product they sell.

Off topic but funny. While trying to purchase a car, i asked what was the difference in 2 models, the answer was-more expansive model came with wheels. This was the only answer of difference i could get.

[Crushdepth]

If the minimum wage increase leads to higher prices everybody will want a wage increase, again leading to higher prices..... Most likely every business will be effected.

And those not employed, doing casual jobs (payed per job, not hour etc), retired...will end up losing.

Will these casual labouring positions just disappear?

You are thinking people will pay more suddenly, for no gain?

Alright, if we assume you are right and people not being greedy...apart from this being your argument for minimum wage in the first place, how will unemployed people, beggars, retired people...gain from raised prices?

And the self-employed as well.

[TAWP]

You are thinking people will pay more suddenly, for no gain?

Alright, if we assume you are right and people not being greedy...apart from this being your argument for minimum wage in the first place, how will unemployed people, beggars, retired people...gain from raised prices?

And the self-employed as well.

Yes, but self-employed are clearly part of the evil people, since they are business-owners.

Stick it to the man!

[JimGant]

Will these casual labouring positions just disappear?

Of course not. And will many casual workers still work for the old established wage? Of course.

Now, this may be a new source of tea money for the enforcement squads -- which will probably come out of the casual worker's wages.

However, I don't see there being any enforcement squads -- at least not at the casual level. You want a job? Here's what I'm paying. Take it or leave it. Next in line.

[JimGant]

but i still think they get minimum wage.

You mean, all those sales pukes I keep tripping over in Home Pro are getting minimum wage -- plus a commission/bonus for completed sales?

No wonder Home Pro tried once again to gouge me the other day with Dynamic Currency Conversion.

If they're making a profit with all those extraneous folks on payroll, they definitely need some additional competition in this market. Unfortunately, the mom and pop hardware stores don't have the economy of scale to compete in price. And a minimum wage mandate won't help either -- even if mom, pop, and sonny boy are part of the overhead.

[kuffki]

but i still think they get minimum wage.

You mean, all those sales pukes I keep tripping over in Home Pro are getting minimum wage -- plus a commission/bonus for completed sales?

No wonder Home Pro tried once again to gouge me the other day with Dynamic Currency Conversion.

If they're making a profit with all those extraneous folks on payroll, they definitely need some additional competition in this market. Unfortunately, the mom and pop hardware stores don't have the economy of scale to compete in price. And a minimum wage mandate won't help either -- even if mom, pop, and sonny boy are part of the overhead.

yep, sadly but they do.

I know in Big C, White goods department, they are on about 9000 baht per month(unless the girl lied to me )

[kuffki]

Will these casual labouring positions just disappear?

Of course not. And will many casual workers still work for the old established wage? Of course.

Now, this may be a new source of tea money for the enforcement squads -- which will probably come out of the casual worker's wages.

However, I don't see there being any enforcement squads -- at least not at the casual level. You want a job? Here's what I'm paying. Take it or leave it. Next in line.

Its actually much easier than that. Any company who pays social security can be checked and enforced! Because company pays social security a % of the wage, so they will know instantly if company is not paying correctly.

In other words all the "proper" company's will pay the price while little business owners will continue to pay whatever they pay(and usually they are the ones making real money and hardly ever pay any taxes)

Ever wondered how a street stool can drive a brand new 1000000 baht car

[473geo]

If the minimum wage increase leads to higher prices everybody will want a wage increase, again leading to higher prices..... Most likely every business will be effected.

And those not employed, doing casual jobs (payed per job, not hour etc), retired...will end up losing.

Will these casual labouring positions just disappear?

You are thinking people will pay more suddenly, for no gain?

Alright, if we assume you are right and people not being greedy...apart from this being your argument for minimum wage in the first place, how will unemployed people, beggars, retired people...gain from raised prices?

They will gain because the very type of people who assist them now, and have done so for centuries, will have just a little more disposable income.........heaven forbid we give their supporters so much that they may get above themselves and forget their roots..........fortunately I have great faith in and respect for the cohesive family tradition in Thailand

As for the self employed, if your line of business does not pay above the minimum wage....I would suggest retraining for a profession that does.....

[473geo]

Will these casual labouring positions just disappear?

Of course not. And will many casual workers still work for the old established wage? Of course.

Now, this may be a new source of tea money for the enforcement squads -- which will probably come out of the casual worker's wages.

However, I don't see there being any enforcement squads -- at least not at the casual level. You want a job? Here's what I'm paying. Take it or leave it. Next in line.

I agree this may well be the result .....however there is a great dialogue in Thailand that reaches across the countryside as to who pays what and where.......the person who moves along the line offering low wages may well find he is also last in line........at least there will be a reasonable benchmark for people to aim at

[Bakseedaa]

Academics, caught in the middle, tried to walk the middle path, saying the current rates were too low but the promised Bt300 was virtually impractical.

I reckon the academics have it right on this one. Raising the minimum wage to 300 baht in one go would be near on impossible for many businesses.

Raising the minimum wage to the same level nation wide would have interesting consequences. On one hand, why would businesses that rely on transport locate themselves in distant provinces. On the other hand, why would workers move to Bangkok or other expensive provinces if they can get the same wage elsewhere without the expense.

Come on Dude, its not about the consequences... its the question of bal*s... She has to give those gam-ma-gawn 300bahts a day or she loses face... This is Thailand, Amazing..

[TAWP]

As for the self employed, if your line of business does not pay above the minimum wage....I would suggest retraining for a profession that does.....

I think that is a line against having a minimum wage at all - if you think you are underpaid, re-train and get another profession?

[jdinasia]

As for the self employed, if your line of business does not pay above the minimum wage....I would suggest retraining for a profession that does.....

I think that is a line against having a minimum wage at all - if you think you are underpaid, re-train and get another profession?

It is a money/trees thing apparently. So now the guy saying it is all doable is telling people in business to fire all their staff and do something at a later date that makes more profit? I spell that "unemployment" just to go on top of the inflation !