Issan - Pigs 'N Whiskey

[jaffajeffries]

I am off to stay in a small town near Burilam soon and plan to be there for 9 months or so. The trouble is l have been there for a short time before and can see it is not the most interesting part of Thailand and l need to fill my waking hours with a purpose. I was wondering if a living can be made from raising pigs? Obviously l wont be there long enough to see it to fruition but l would hope l could leave it to my girlfriend who could carry on to the money stage when the pigs are sold. I can do all the stuff to get it up and running, like building the sty's, water electric etc but wanted to know if anyone has any direct experience re cost/profit ettc.

Another thought was to make some form of whiskey and sell it to the locals through a third party. I know drinking is a popular pastime up there and just wondered if any of you have had a go or heard a good reason why not to give it a try.

Neither of these are to make big money but l dont want to waste money either so any input will be appreciated

[Moonrakers]

There's a song title in there somewhere.

Or, perhaps, even a book.

[Zammo]

bizarre

[bina]

Another thought was to make some form of whiskey and sell it to the locals through a third party

illegal in thailnd.

mving to farming section so that u can see if u are really serious or not. read PIGS 101 and some of the other issaan farming threads that have been running for the past 3-5 years on that very same subject.

pigs + issan + girlfriend dont equal $/ they = headache/

bina

[Moonrakers]

bizarre

zammo

Just say no..................

[Beetlejuice]

I think raising pigs for pork and distilling your own whiskey is a great idea.

Also worth considering is opening a betting shop on the grounds of the pig farm inside the distillery building next door to the brothel.

And once everybody has feasted well on all that pork and good and drunk on all that cheap illegal whiskey , they could sing that good old favourite; troll me the way to go home.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[rizla]

Is this a real post ....or a joke? Mia Mee Samone....you aren`t serious man,,,

Thanks for the laugh ...OP

Edited July 31, 2011 by rizla

[Scully]

Is this a real post ....or a joke? Mia Mee Samone....you aren`t serious man,,,

Thanks for the laugh ...OP

We set up a pig farm 12 months ago and broke even about 3 months ago, all money made now is profit. The family and myself work the farm and also help build it

I am not one for giving handouts to family so they have to work for it and they work very hard.. Pig farming sounds easy but when you have got 90 100kg pigs trying to knock you over to get to their breakfast its not that funny, there is also the smell and waste these beasts make.

Your GF needs to be a grafter or this is not going to work, this is not a joke but a business and a good one by Thai standard

p.s. I don't know much about whiskey but be careful not to blind the whole of the male village population.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Scully

[IsaanAussie]

Glad to see the elephant is bouncing high Scully. Looks like he might have a bigger smile than before?

Agree with Scully 100%. It is hard work and currently rewarding if the numbers are right. Do the maths on cash flow, pig feed is not cheap and the pigs are 5 to 6 months old when sold so the OP would be advised to tally it all up before committing to purchasing the piglets. Aint got the dough, dont have a go!

Isaan Aussie

[Scully]

Glad to see the elephant is bouncing high Scully. Looks like he might have a bigger smile than before?

Agree with Scully 100%. It is hard work and currently rewarding if the numbers are right. Do the maths on cash flow, pig feed is not cheap and the pigs are 5 to 6 months old when sold so the OP would be advised to tally it all up before committing to purchasing the piglets. Aint got the dough, dont have a go!

Isaan Aussie

Isaan Aussie is the resident expert regarding pigs and has taught me a lot. I suggest you do a search on pigs in the farming forum as there is a wealth of knowledge out there.

Isaan Aussie's farm is in my view is state of the art, mine however is state of the isaan but it does the job and is well built. Growing pigs takes a lot of money from start to finish as there are things you wouldn't think of if you are not from a farming background (like myself). Isaan Aussie told me to start small and decide whether you like the life style which I did, this was by buying piglets to raise and sell. Now though we have piglets and three pregnant sows which I am looking forward to another learning curve ie cutting the piglets balls off .

Beware of price fluctuations and "do your homework" this is the most important thing.

p.s. good to hear from you Isaan Aussie

Regarding whiskey Lao Khao is 50baht a bottle so not much profit margin in brewing whiskey

[Boyce]

I''ve heard of, Pigs 'N Blankets, but i've never heard of , Pigs 'N Whiskey

So i done a little research, and came up with this.

'No animal shall drink alcohol,' but there were two words that had forgotten. Actually the Commandment read: 'No animal shall dink alcohol to excess.' -- Animal Farm.

Napoleon and other pigs came upon a case of whisky in the caller of the farmhouse. After drinking, Napoleon became so ill that he though that he was dying. And so he animals started to worry about what should they do if their Leader were taken away from them. Also, meanwhile, rumors about Snowball has introduced poison into Napoleon's food, went around within the animals. Then finally, as his last act upon earth, Napoleon had pronounced a solemn decree that drink of alcohol was to be punished by death. But, Napoleon did not die, eventually, and he changed the commandment so that he wouldn't have to die. Hahahaha..(?)

[h90]

I think raising pigs for pork and distilling your own whiskey is a great idea.

Also worth considering is opening a betting shop on the grounds of the pig farm inside the distillery building next door to the brothel.

And once everybody has feasted well on all that pork and good and drunk on all that cheap illegal whiskey , they could sing that good old favourite; troll me the way to go home.

Well on the back side they can play cards and drink some black label imported from Cambodia....

Just don't forget to make the local police or Army boss a shareholder

[kerryk]

A brewery or distillery has to do something with the used mash. You could buy it and feed it to the pigs. I think it would make excellent bacon.

[h90]

A brewery or distillery has to do something with the used mash. You could buy it and feed it to the pigs. I think it would make excellent bacon.

and it would make the pigs very happy

[jaffajeffries]

Yes l am serious and it was a serious question based on my time in Issan and thinking how to pass the time, make a little money and try to fit in a little with the locals. Based on the fact that they seem to eat all day and drink all night the obvious choice was pigs and whiskey. While l realise whiskey distilling is illegal in Thailand l find that 'illegal' doesn't necessarily mean the same as it does in europe.

I have read much from the farming section here and will give it a go and yes my gf is a hard grafter and is keen to have some support for the future years (which wont include me) I'm sure she will enjoy cutting the knackers off piglets if she only imagines them to be one of the 'bad' farangs she has had in the past.

For me, l love issan as it is but l cant do boredom so if anyone needs a pig in 6 months feel free to come and visit me - might also be a free homemade whiskey in it for the journey

[RedBullHorn]

You have Scully, then enters Issan Aussie...now you have me

You read the topics, Scully advise on labour and enviroment, Issan Aussie our residential expert on many pig issue...

When it comes to financial support on some of the best way to go into this business without a lot of money and minimum risk, this is one option for you to follow;

There is this Argo Department/Co-operative call Sahakon, every Thai farmers know it, go ask you gf about it

Before you approach them, you will need to build your pig sty to house a minimum of 20 pigs (with possibility space for expansion in the future)

After your pig sty is completed with water pump and electricity...What ever ! As long it is a fully funtional operable pig sty.

Tell the gf or any of her family members to join Sahakon as a member if none of the family members hold any membership.

If yes, one of the family members hold a membership already, check their credit status...Mine is 4A+, meaning very good customer of a reliable credit status.

If no, then get any of them to join...

Once joined, get refer to the "Contract" pig farming department, their representative will explain the rule and condition,

First, you will need to submit a Chanote or equivalent land title deed (Free hold type) to act as collateral, don't worry,

there's no cash loan involve.

Second, their representative will come to inspect your land that act as collecteral and your existing pig sty, to see if it's fit to raise pigs.

Then after they've check and back in office and back to you with a quota numbers of pigs you can raise base on the worth of your collateral, let say you get a quota of up to 50 pig maximum, so for a start 10-20 pigs is the way to go doing the learning curve. So in the future if you plan on raising 60 pigs or more, you pay interest for the exceed quota or you simply put up more collateral.

What you invested are only the infrastructure, Sahakon will come in with piglets, feeds, and technical supports (health check and medical supply)

Sign the quota contract, once the piglets (16kg or 30kg, your choice...my advice, order the 30kg) arrive, sort them according the their size range and start raising them...Welcome to Contract farming.

If you fail due to high mortality rate or fall victim to low price that you fall below break even price or in any senario that makes you loose money on one term of farming pigs, Sahakon will compensate 250 Baht per pig as labour and time wasted. Don't give up, just try your luck on the next batch. Time to harvest, Sahakon will pay you the market farmgate price after deducting the total cost of piglets and feeds, you take the rest.

Down side are :

1.If any pig fall out of size/weight range, they will reject that particular pig. You find your way sell it, to local butcher or sell or share it up with villagers and stock up your fridge.

2.Their feeds price are higher compare to open market.

Good luck

Edited August 1, 2011 by RedBullHorn

[Willeyeam]

I would not touch it with a barge pole!

Raising pigs here is a waste of time and money, just take a look at your average village.

All this rubbish about being helped by the local Ampur etc. is a waste of time.

My family tried a couple of years back, what an absolute disaster - for one, they cannot compete with the big pig farms, not a chance in hell!

Second, you will find yourself at the mercy of the pig food suppliers - boy can this fluctuate to the point where it is better to simply kill the pig and eat it rather than carry on buying commercial food for it.

Pig SIDS - ever seen a pig die in hour due to heat? due to a bite from a Jakep? not baby pigs - bit fat ripe ones just ready to make you your porker million baht.

suddenely keel over and die turn purple and end up being sold for 400 Baht?

A lot of these pig breeding companies will tell you all about the benefits of free gas from your pig poop.....mmmmm that will take about 40 years to cover the investment.

Then the last point - do you really like the smell of pig shit?

If you visit the next village down from me that were persuaded to buy pigs, with not enough land or resources, come and smell it in the hot season, you may as well have your nose stuck up a pigs ass cheeks!

[Foreverford]

A brewery or distillery has to do something with the used mash. You could buy it and feed it to the pigs. I think it would make excellent bacon.

Better than that old buddy i used to ferment corn oats barley and molasses for little squealers, they always had smiles on their faces and I never have had better bacon or country style sausage (butcher is the real key here) anywhere on the earth. Not even close to it. Pigs'N Whiskey that is the compassion in this brutal world of livestock. It's alive stock but if you or someone else is going to bonk it or put a bullet into your little squealers and stick a knife into an aorta or two a few months after they are born have a bit of compassion for them. If you were going to meet inevitable death in a few short months wouldn't you want to be a bit soused up the whole time (that's obviously a rhetorical question). Yeah that sour mash sure kept the little guys and their mom happy squealing in delight and so utterly amazing in taste.

In regards to this whole process of hogs I raised mine over 30 years ago. We purchased a litter and raised them to 100 kilos and sold to friends and acquaintenances the cleaned finished animals delivered and weighed to any of the local butchers or available at the the farm gate if they wished. I always had my freezer full and my mom's too and the chickens kept laying so it all fit in well. we saved the best female and took her to the fellow we bought the original litter and bred her. Twice actually and had both litters at a dozen each all perfectly equal in size and looks no monsters no runts. By this time she is over 1/4 ton of internally season and stewed happy non-stop smiling mama hog. So we gave her the bullet because we couldn't handle her anymore. I used to go to the local farms and fill my full size 3/4 ton truck full of cauliflower, brussel sprouts or whatever was going to go to rot and also give them the weeds from around and about the gardens and the house to supplement the sour mash whiskey diet.

The reason for the story is that we had nearly no costs to incur to get up and start operating. Electric, water, concreeted surface were all in place. the animals all matured to size along the parameters common to hogs and we added a lot of sweat equity in the procurement of green vegetable matter for supplements (granted the "sour mash stewed" Monterey County method of feeding for hog farming is a bit different to the"astro-physical scientific method" that ol' Issan Aussie uses by using multiple different formulated varieties of feed to get optimum growth at different life cycles of the beasts) but the bottom line of this is we never made a nickle let alone got a penny for our time or factored the use of the pick up truck. Dead flat even after all the moneys were added up. Exactly the same thing my dad accomplished after a life on the farm and World War II and a college education he decided to do it on a large scale with cattle. fortunately he sold and got out just as the market crashed and he made the exact same loss and gain we did with the hogs, zero. It sure beats having to pay money to raise them and sell them but I'm not sure how much you want to get beaten.

I would want to bet on Issan Aussie's operation of breeding and raising hogs as it appears to be really necessary to raise enormous amounts of beasts to be able to get any kind of decent return on a contractual method if you are resigned to buying all your feed and hogs commercially. The one thing that is critical is that you need to develop a system of septic tanks and ponds like IA did to be able to really be sustainably raising hogs. their waste can either become a valuable product, as it is for him, or a foul stinking polluting mess if not properly planned and maintained. EM is a huge key to the entire process (I spoke to an Arkansas hog farmer transplanted to issan and he was told to put EM in the drinking water and feces of the hogs would have no smell. he did with no success, but thten later was able to speak to the women again and was told he didn't put enough. Normally for plants it's a couple spoonfulls for a gallon for spraying on plants. I believe he put a couple of liters in 200 liters of water and said after that all odor was eliminated. Pretty amazing if so.). Obviuosly good stock is the key to any operation, plants or animals, I like Landrace, IA likes to cross them with Duroc for culinary reasons, good on him. Again I have never tasted anything that got close to our pork in flavor and our butcher had recipies to die for with the sausage and belly bacon.

Yep Whiskey 'N Pigs, i thought this was a joke when I first read this and saw a first timer stirrring us up again but low and behold just an inexperienced new farmer getting his operation priorities a bit back as_swards as they say. Don't worry about keeping the locals full of your sour mash make sure your little squealers have that far away smile on their faces, man get it together. Like Bob Marley sang " A sober hog is an angry hog. Them Belly Full but they hungry, a sober hog is angry hog" or something close to that anyway and don't forget the 3/5 beat. Like old Boyce's ;'Animal Farm'' my smily faced little guys would dern near line up and march out of the pen to get the bullet and knife as they were so sotted and thinking their next round of indulgence was behind that wall in the barn. Pigs in Whiskey ona Ford Forever

Edited August 1, 2011 by Foreverford

[RedBullHorn]

I would not touch it with a barge pole!

Raising pigs here is a waste of time and money, just take a look at your average village.

All this rubbish about being helped by the local Ampur etc. is a waste of time.

My family tried a couple of years back, what an absolute disaster - for one, they cannot compete with the big pig farms, not a chance in hell!

Second, you will find yourself at the mercy of the pig food suppliers - boy can this fluctuate to the point where it is better to simply kill the pig and eat it rather than carry on buying commercial food for it.

Pig SIDS - ever seen a pig die in hour due to heat? due to a bite from a Jakep? not baby pigs - bit fat ripe ones just ready to make you your porker million baht.

suddenely keel over and die turn purple and end up being sold for 400 Baht?

A lot of these pig breeding companies will tell you all about the benefits of free gas from your pig poop.....mmmmm that will take about 40 years to cover the investment.

Then the last point - do you really like the smell of pig shit?

If you visit the next village down from me that were persuaded to buy pigs, with not enough land or resources, come and smell it in the hot season, you may as well have your nose stuck up a pigs ass cheeks!

One man's meat is another man's poison....clearly pig farming is not for you, it's way out of your league

All the same when i started catfish farming with 10'000 fingerlings...Now i doing 8 ponds with 180'000...

Maybe it's not what others did wrong, but what i done right

Edited August 1, 2011 by RedBullHorn

[jaffajeffries]

Thanks for those replies and some usueful information there

A little more about the plan for pigs 'n whiskey ... my girlfriends brother in law actually drives miles away (l dont know where) and returns with one or 2 pigs strapped in the back of his pick up. They are duly caged, washed and fed until the small hours when he and his assosiate whack them with a stick and start the whole butchering process in readiness for the sale of fresh pork to the local area the next morning, the whole process is repeated daily, apart from Buddha days.

I was simply thinking if we raised the pigs he wouldn't have to drive to get them and my gf would make some cash so l only planned to have enough pigs for 1 a day to be sold on. The smell seems to be the disadvantage at the moment as the proposed land is that not far from the house. From the information here l can see that an additive to the water would decrease the smell but l might try it on the pa-in-law first. The second drawback is the way they slaughter the pigs, whack with a stick the slit it throat while unconcious (maybe) Is that the way they all do it or is there a more humane method?

I'm not going into this totally blind as l had experience of pigs when l was younger but not of actually paying the bills to raise them but l know money can be made, its just a question whether it can in Thailand but from the replies it seems if entered into the right way then it should be ok.

I will try the whiskey side of it just for my own curiousity and l'm sure the locals wouldn't turn it down - if there is a by product the pigs can eat then thats a bonus for them as they can live happy.

Any other ideas (proven) to occupy the days and not lose money while in Issan will be most appreciated.

Thanks

[IsaanAussie]

This topic seems to have gained a life of its own today. I would like to add this from a very personal perspective:

RBH and I go back a long way. His judgement and business model is among the best I have seen and if I ever have the time to have a drink with him it would be my honour and my shout. I have made many errors here assuming that all I have been told would be realised only to be disappointed, RBH seems to not to have made such a fundamental mistake. A solid business mind. Listen all for your own benefit.

Scully and I have spent many hours on the phone and it is me that should have listened harder. If I had followed my own retrospective advice then I would have been better off. Good luck Scully, not that you need it. By the way, if you are threathened by hungry pigs at feeding time remember this, the pigs point of balance is just behind the front shoulder, stick your knee in there and they will just move in the direction you want 300 Kg Boar or not. What does that dog guy on tele say, oh yeh, be the pack leader!

FEF, what can I say to a kindred spirit and a great friend. I have enjoyed this mans friendship and support, I have cried with him at the funeral of a friend and discovered many things that tie us together in our backgrounds. Nothing will stop this man, this is the most dynamic and motivated individual I have ever met. FEF you continue to inspire me come wasp sting or tractor crash.

So to serious pig farmers and to those whose fingers do the walking, from me, have a pleasant evening. To my TV friends thank you, sleep well.

Isaan Aussie