Motorbike Checks

[kerryk]

I keep noticing the boys in brown stopping all the motorbikes. They stop people with helmets and with out helmets. Anybody know what they check for?

[Ajarn]

I keep noticing the boys in brown stopping all the motorbikes.  They stop people with helmets and with out helmets.  Anybody know what they check for?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anything that can be used to generate a fine.

initially, helmet, license, tax sticker...

[Steve2UK]

........ and to check ownership.

[davidgtr]

.............and ID / passport, so yes that = anything that will get them a baht or two.

They're nearly always active in nice weather, just before lunch at various semi hidden strategic intersections / corners of the moat around town. They're also quite active just before festivals when they need money for celebratory parties or "making merit."

It's usually safe to ride around during lunch & after 3.15 pm when school comes out.

I’ve been nabbed (quite) a few times - no helmet - but only ever paid twice. Either play dumb (easy for me) or give 'em an ear bashing & see if you can get away with it.

But to be honest I generally find them very polite about it all & I hate to admit it but they are just doing their job. However it's a pain if you feel that it is an infringement on personal liberty (the helmet rule.)

Now interestingly enough I understand that the helmet law is a bit ambiguous & that it actually does not state you have to wear the helmet on your head. I think that the law says it only needs to be attached / worn on the body, so technically you could carry it on your arm & “get away with it.” I “wore” mine like this several times, but never got picked up or passed a checkpoint doing it, (& now just ride in town without a helmet), so can't vouch if it works or not. Does someone else want to test it out?

[jrincon17]

I keep noticing the boys in brown stopping all the motorbikes.  They stop people with helmets and with out helmets.  Anybody know what they check for?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

DRIVERS LICENSE !

[Guest endure]

But to be honest I generally find them very polite about it all & I hate to admit it but they are just doing their job. However it's a pain if you feel that it is an infringement on personal liberty (the helmet rule.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All laws are infringements of personal liberty one way or another. Some of them are stupid - some of them save lives.

[sierra01]

.............and ID / passport, so yes that = anything that will get them a baht or two.

They're nearly always active in nice weather, just before lunch at various semi hidden strategic intersections / corners of the moat around town. They're also quite active just before festivals when they need money for celebratory parties or "making merit."

It's usually safe to ride around during lunch & after 3.15 pm when school comes out.

I’ve been nabbed (quite) a few times - no helmet - but only ever paid twice. Either play dumb (easy for me) or give 'em an ear bashing & see if you can get away with it.

But to be honest I generally find them very polite about it all & I hate to admit it but they are just doing their job. However it's a pain if you feel that it is an infringement on personal liberty (the helmet rule.)

Now interestingly enough I understand that the helmet law is a bit ambiguous & that it actually does not state you have to wear the helmet on your head. I think that the law says it only needs to be attached / worn on the body, so technically you could carry it on your arm & “get away with it.” I “wore” mine like this several times, but never got picked up or passed a checkpoint doing it, (& now just ride in town without a helmet), so can't vouch if it works or not. Does someone else want to test it out?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you don’t wear a helmet. I’ll be polite; do you think that’s wise, have you ever seen what a head looks like after it’s smacked the road at 30mph? I have and it’s not a pretty site, I have a friend in the UK who’s brain damaged because he thought it was wise not to wear a helmet. In my book it’s a stupid thing to do out of town but IN town, with all the observant, considerate, and careful Thai drivers, its sheer madness. It’s your life; just spare a thought for the people you leave behind and those who have to clear up afterwards please.

I’ve been riding bikes, everything from a moped to a 900cc Honda, for over 30 years and I always wear my lid. Also, don’t rely on a Thai made helmet, cheap yes but you might as well wear a saucepan for all the good they’ll do you. I’m on my second helmet here, the first I bought with me from England, now I wear a 19,000bt Shoei, and I only ride a 125cc, still quick enough to kill me though. Think about it, how much is your head/life worth?

One final point. You’re encouraging other to not wear a helmet too (‘Does someone else want to test it out?’), A job for the mods here perhaps?

[RDN]

I keep noticing the boys in brown stopping all the motorbikes.  They stop people with helmets and with out helmets.  Anybody know what they check for?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

DRIVERS LICENSE !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is that a very LOUD drivers license?

[paulnuek]

look at it this way..

I`ve been riding bike in CM for the last 15/16 years.

If I ride the bike without helmet---I have never been stopped.

If the wife(Thai) rides it with me on the back ditto.

However if she goes alone (no helmet) she gets stopped and has to pay a fine.These vary on how desperate the cop is.....

Morale of the story....Wear a helmet,they are crazy on the roads in all Thailand.

If you have an accident without a hat you are asking for trouble....

But I shouldn`t worry too much about being stopped.At least in CM.

Pattaya and Phuket on the other hand,completely different.

I have been stopped for a spot check and was not allowed to move the bike until I returned from my hotel with my passport.The cop took a quick look,smiled and let me go...

[stateman]

.............and ID / passport, so yes that = anything that will get them a baht or two.

They're nearly always active in nice weather, just before lunch at various semi hidden strategic intersections / corners of the moat around town. They're also quite active just before festivals when they need money for celebratory parties or "making merit."

It's usually safe to ride around during lunch & after 3.15 pm when school comes out.

I’ve been nabbed (quite) a few times - no helmet - but only ever paid twice. Either play dumb (easy for me) or give 'em an ear bashing & see if you can get away with it.

But to be honest I generally find them very polite about it all & I hate to admit it but they are just doing their job. However it's a pain if you feel that it is an infringement on personal liberty (the helmet rule.)

Now interestingly enough I understand that the helmet law is a bit ambiguous & that it actually does not state you have to wear the helmet on your head. I think that the law says it only needs to be attached / worn on the body, so technically you could carry it on your arm & “get away with it.” I “wore” mine like this several times, but never got picked up or passed a checkpoint doing it, (& now just ride in town without a helmet), so can't vouch if it works or not. Does someone else want to test it out?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you don’t wear a helmet. I’ll be polite; do you think that’s wise, have you ever seen what a head looks like after it’s smacked the road at 30mph? I have and it’s not a pretty site, I have a friend in the UK who’s brain damaged because he thought it was wise not to wear a helmet. In my book it’s a stupid thing to do out of town but IN town, with all the observant, considerate, and careful Thai drivers, its sheer madness. It’s your life; just spare a thought for the people you leave behind and those who have to clear up afterwards please.

I’ve been riding bikes, everything from a moped to a 900cc Honda, for over 30 years and I always wear my lid. Also, don’t rely on a Thai made helmet, cheap yes but you might as well wear a saucepan for all the good they’ll do you. I’m on my second helmet here, the first I bought with me from England, now I wear a 19,000bt Shoei, and I only ride a 125cc, still quick enough to kill me though. Think about it, how much is your head/life worth?

One final point. You’re encouraging other to not wear a helmet too (‘Does someone else want to test it out?’), A job for the mods here perhaps?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sierra01 has a good point.

Stats from the CM Police:

no. of accidents per yr for 2003 by categories (latest that they have) - Top 3:

Motorcycle = 4716

Pickup Trucks = 2233

Sedans = 1672

With such large numbers, it is not surprising it no longer makes headlines.

But it keeps happening.

[Tywais]

Morale of the story....Wear a helmet,they are crazy on the roads in all Thailand.

If you have an accident without a hat you are asking for trouble....

While driving back from CMU yesterday on the canal road saw a motorbike on the side of the road, must have happened just seconds before I came upon it because there were no hordes of people yet. One person was being helped up but another was lying still straddling the bike with his head on the pavement and blood running out. He wasn't moving and still feel sick seeing something like that. Definitly if he had a helmut on he would be walking around too. So yes, wear a helmut regardless of the law.

Edited October 28, 2005 by tywais

[davidgtr]

It looks like I might have stirred the pot a little with my post.

Like most posts it was a personal post & a personal opinion. It was also not offensive.

Sierra01

I don’t like to wear a helmet in the city. This is my own personal decision. It may or not be wise, but that's how I feel about it. I’ve also seen a few smashed heads & bodies – sometimes my own – in my day & it does not bother me that much. &lt;deleted&gt; happens. That’s life, we all take our chances, & any motor vehicle accident can be a bit messy & painful at times, not just motor cycle accidents!

Perhaps to avoid this, all motor vehicles should be banned – they cause accidents, death & suffering? Wouldn’t we all be safer & live longer even? We could even go back to riding horses but only while wearing an approved helmet?

For me life's a bit of a chance & I like taking it.

Its funny but after riding motorbikes in Chiang Mai city for 20 plus years without a helmet I find it a bit hard to take that “over night” it’s suddenly illegal & bad for you.

I also suspect that there a few thousands of other people – Thai people – who feel the same, not just this silly old farang motorcyclist. And it’s not a crime to feel or think like that.

Its good to know that you too have a good expensive helmet, but mine’s only an 18,000 baht Arai, so perhaps your head is more valuable than mine – congratulations. My current helmet is the 3rd top of the range Arai I’ve owned in Chiang Mai & I also ride a variety of motorbikes all at speeds that can kill = anything over 30 kph, all over Thailand & Laos. So what.

I also wear real body armour, real boots, real m/c jackets, & real gloves at speeds faster than you can do in Chiang Mai city when I ride up country; but I don’t like wearing a helmet in the city pottering around at 30-40 kph!

Stateman

Quotes accidents figures from the CM Police. But I see that there’s only 700 more motorbike accidents than the combined sedan / pick-up accidents. Considering that there are thousands more motorbikes on the road than cars I reckon that’s not so bad.

Motorcycle accidents will always rate higher than car accidents simply because there are millions more bikes on the road. It also easier to die falling off a motorbike than a car. That’s a simple fact of life here & will never change. People know that when they get on their motorbike. That’s life & they get on & do the business.

What would be interesting for me would figures showing what the percentage of motorcycle deaths was caused by accidents with another vehicle – cars. My guess is a significant percentage would also be the fault of the other vehcile – the car, but there does not seem to be too many complaints about cars causing accidents / deaths – only motorcyclists.

Witnessing any serious motor vehicle accident can be distressing, not just a motorcycle accident. In a car accident if you don’t fasten your seatbelt & go through the windscreen, you know that you should have fastened your seat belt. But that’s the chance you took at the time.

If some other independent minded motorcyclist wants to test out my helmet law theory & report back here good on him / her for taking that chance & learning something others are too scared to do. They are probably enjoying life more than the worriers who feel that it’s totally dangerous & life threatening to ride a motorcycle without a helmet or even just use Thai roads. I mean it’s shear madness out there, how can we possibly survive like this? But we do & life goes on, some of us enjoying, some of us suffering. That’s real life and I’m sure the mods wont be offended….

[sierra01]

From an experienced biker as yourself, and having seen and done as much as you have I find your comments on safety mind boggling. With bikes you’ve been there, done that, and bought the tee shirt, same as me. Here I only potter about, farthest I’ve ever ridden here was Lampang-Chiang Mai and back. Now I live in the big car park (BKK) and locally the best way of getting about is a bike. My head is never still, I’m constantly checking my mirrors and blind spots so I know what’s around me and exactly where they are. And I’m not just looking at the road a few feet in front of me either, like a lot of people here seem to do, I’m scanning 200-300 meters ahead, always looking for possible problems so I can try and avoid them. Yet still I have frequent near misses. I’m only a newbie here, nearly 4 years, but in that time I’ve had 3 car accidents, thankfully nothing serious, and each time I was stationary. Twice at traffic lights I’ve been hit from behind by people forgetting to stop and once a bus reversed into me, no 2 wheeled accidents yet, but I fully expect it to happen one day.

Riding without a helmet didn’t suddenly become illegal and bad for you ‘overnight’ (the illegal bit might of though), it’s always been that way, and getting worse every day. Someone has finally realised that as the people don’t seem bothered about trying to protect themselves the state should try instead. It upsets your sense of freedom doesn’t it? Whether Thai law actually says you must wear a helmet I don’t know, to me it’s irrelevant, common sense tells me to wear one, same as a seat belt. Do you have a death wish, or do you think you’re still a know it all indestructible teenager? So far you’ve been lucky, how long do you think it’ll last?

We can argue this forever, and you’ll still ride without a helmet. It’s no skin off my nose but please don’t encourage others to do it, which was my real point.

PS. ‘If some other independent minded motorcyclist wants to test out my helmet law theory & report back here good on him / her for taking that chance & learning something others are too scared to do’. I for one am too scared, I want to live a bit longer, and not as a vegetable either.

[davidgtr]

We can argue this forever, and you’ll still ride without a helmet.  It’s no skin off my nose but please don’t encourage others to do it, which was my real point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sierra01

What are "we" arguing about?

I personally don’t like to wear a helmet in Chiang Mai city (=going down to the shop for the newspaper) pottering around at 30-40 kph. Out on the highway & Bangkok is different. Now if you go “outside of town” (Chiang Mai) wear a helmet, and if you're really out there riding wear all the right protective gear - just like I do & recommend.

The title of this thread was “Motorbike Checks, Why do the police stop motorbikes” & the general agreed answer was "looking for money, any excuse to make a baht.”

Keep the skin on your nose mate.......

[sierra01]

We can argue this forever, and you’ll still ride without a helmet.  It’s no skin off my nose but please don’t encourage others to do it, which was my real point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sierra01

What are "we" arguing about?

I personally don’t like to wear a helmet in Chiang Mai city (=going down to the shop for the newspaper) pottering around at 30-40 kph. Out on the highway & Bangkok is different. Now if you go “outside of town” (Chiang Mai) wear a helmet, and if you're really out there riding wear all the right protective gear - just like I do & recommend.

The title of this thread was “Motorbike Checks, Why do the police stop motorbikes” & the general agreed answer was "looking for money, any excuse to make a baht.”

Keep the skin on your nose mate.......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So telling people to not wear a helmet and see what happens with old bill is ok is it? You know these topics often go off topic, this one has as well. So it doesn't get closed down lets agree to disagree!

[Markymark]

I have seen the cops hiding behind a sign outside the petrol station on Huay Kaew Road (near Hillside Plaza).

As far as I could make out, they were jumping out on anyone riding on the pavement and any bike going the wrong way on the NW bound carriageway.

Mark

[ovenman]

As far as I could make out, they were jumping out on anyone riding on the pavement and any bike going the wrong way on the NW bound carriageway.

That would be rare (i.e. the cops busting riders for actual moving violations). Usually they prefer the helmet/license/tax disc roadside checks at which they don't have to work too hard.

[RDN]

...Pattaya and Phuket on the other hand,completely different...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep, they're pretty hot in Phuket - in the tourist areas and at the major traffic lights and roundabouts (that's "circles" to the US readers). [Actually, one of the signs at Chalong says "CIRCIE", but we all know what they meant].

Back on topic... just north of Karon beach - as you get to the hill that goes to Patong - there is often a queue of Farangs with TGF waiting to pay the fine.

But at Chalong, the queue at the circle - sorry, roundabout - is usually of Thais who thought today wasn't a "helmet" day or who were just chancing their luck.

Of course, 100 yards before the check point you can see many riders reaching into their shopping basket on the front of their bike to get their helmet. And similarly, 100 yards after the checkpoint, you can see them taking their helmets off.

And, most mobile BIB (BIB on bikes AND pick-ups) don't do anything about helmetless riders.

[Dustoff]

~

The helmet issue, wherever it comes up, always stirs emotional responses.

And with good reason.

Having ridden motorcyles for over 50 years without incident, I find that I perfer to ride with what little hair I have left flying in the breeze.

But that is NOT why I do not wear a helmet !

It only takes a bit of our time to examine the statistics of states in America (no bias here) where helmet laws have been reapealed to understand the real issue:

Do helmets actually save lives..?

The answer is clearly, no.

The arguments are complex with rages about the cost of hospitalization borne by taxpayers for &lt;deleted&gt; bikers blasting their pipes at 2am to the more reasonable discussions of the limitations of visibility, hearing, over-confidence, heat build-up and the very fact that strapping a weighty object to your head then flinging yourself into a violent circumstance has major consequences to the integrity of your cervical spine.

Go to the State of Florida's studies post-helmet law repeal and see for yourself that deaths actually go down when riders do not wear helmets.

And this is far, far from anything new...

Personally, I would like to see these newest and greatest plastics manufacturers create a bicycle-like helmet that weighs mere ounces but can withstand the same stresses a canoe handles when crashing against a rock in a rapid and get it approved by worldwide governments.

But then, I highly suspect that my poor old brain just ain't up to the whack...

Any bang on the old noggin over about 10-12mph (about as fast as a man can gallop head-first into a concrete wall) is curtains for your ability to make reasonable decisions in the future (as if this was a good one, right?)

Basically, the heavier your helmet, the higher your risk for a fatal cervical injury. You may look WAY cool on that Ninja with a brightly-painted full-face helmet but it will kill you far, FAR faster than a long skid down the pavement!

The great majority of motorcycle deaths, EVERYWHERE in the world, are crush injuries to the body - and gettin squished is not something your helmet, no matter what kind you are wearing, is going to prevent.

Too handsome to lose your good looks to road-rash?

Take up knitting....

Edited October 28, 2005 by Dustoff

[Dustoff]

Back on topic... just north of Karon beach..

.

Back on topic - isn't this a Chiangmai forum..?

Basically, take a few baht with you if you are going to push/violate the law, right?

I don't like to wear a helmet but hang it on my chopper's helmet hook in the back and carry my Thai motorcycle license which seems to carry some weight with the coppers.

"Oops" says I with a huge smile, "Stupid falang, I forgot to put it on (doing so as I speak)" and fumbling with the 50 baht I have pre-prepared in the right-hand pocket of my jeans to show the the greedy SOB that that is perhaps all I have with me...

What the hey, it is only a buck, right?

At least here in CM, it ain't about a helmet law, it is about the dismal end of the month paychecks they get.. My lady always accurately predicts when the checkpoints are going to happen and she hasn't gotten it wrong yet....

Edited October 28, 2005 by Dustoff

[PeaceBlondie]

For two years in Chiang Mai, riding a bike 30,000 kilometers (counting adjacent provinces), I was only stopped a few times. Usually, at the moat corners or the busy intersections during rush hours, the police noticed I was wearing a helmet, had a license plate, had insurance, etc. Nothing to worry about. Only once did I get stopped for driver's license, and when I showed my Texas license, he let me go. Only once did they stop me for a helmet check, simply because it was about the only time in two years that I forgot to wear it! No excuse, so I just paid him 200 baht. The Thai driving my bike at that moment, without a helmet, wasn't even asked.

I feel the same way about riding without a helmet, as I did in 1963 about riding in a car without a seat belt. There are four types of people in the world, and the first three are stupid, ignorant, or lazy. I've been in the fourth group since 1956.

[ovenman]

At least here in CM, it ain't about a helmet law, it is about the dismal end of the month paychecks they get..

It's actually about padding the higher-ups pockets as well. The guys on the roadside don't keep all of their take. I know that low salary is a commonly accepted excuse for the extortion, but frankly I think it's a lot of b.s. I doubt that the cops make all that much less than the average office worker from their peer group. Office workers don't generally have such income-padding scams at their disposal.

The big joke (to me) about the helmet law and its enforcement in Thailand is how it's then safe to drive off without a helmet after paying the fine to the friendly officer on the roadside. If this were about anything other than simply collecting money (i.e safety), why would it be acceptable to let riders continue further down the road without helmets?

[sierra01]

~

The helmet issue, wherever it comes up, always stirs emotional responses.

And with good reason.

Having ridden motorcyles for over 50 years without incident, I find that I perfer to ride with what little hair I have left flying in the breeze.

But that is NOT why I do not wear a helmet !

It only takes a bit of our time to examine the statistics of states in America (no bias here) where helmet laws have been reapealed to understand the real issue:

Do helmets actually save lives..?

The answer is clearly, no.

The arguments are complex with rages about the cost of hospitalization borne by taxpayers for &lt;deleted&gt; bikers blasting their pipes at 2am to the more reasonable discussions of the limitations of visibility, hearing, over-confidence, heat build-up and the very fact that strapping a weighty object to your head then flinging yourself into a violent circumstance has major consequences to the integrity of your cervical spine.

Go to the State of Florida's studies post-helmet law repeal and see for yourself that deaths actually go down when riders do not wear helmets.

And this is far, far from anything new...

Personally, I would like to see these newest and greatest plastics manufacturers create a bicycle-like helmet that weighs mere ounces but can withstand the same stresses a canoe handles when crashing against a rock in a rapid and get it approved by worldwide governments.

But then, I highly suspect that my poor old brain just ain't up to the whack...

Any bang on the old noggin over about 10-12mph (about as fast as a man can gallop head-first into a concrete wall) is curtains for your ability to make reasonable decisions in the future (as if this was a good one, right?)

Basically, the heavier your helmet, the higher your risk for a fatal cervical injury.  You may look WAY cool on that Ninja with a brightly-painted full-face helmet but it will kill you far, FAR faster than a long skid down the pavement!

The great majority of motorcycle deaths, EVERYWHERE in the world, are crush injuries to the body - and gettin squished is not something your helmet, no matter what kind you are wearing, is going to prevent.

Too handsome to lose your good looks to road-rash?

Take up knitting....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok so certain American states are right and the rest of the world is wrong, every type of motor sport is wrong as well, try telling Michael Schumacher he doesn't have bother wearing a helmet.

I certainly agree that having a lighter helmet would be nice, though I doubt that it would lessen the injuries, when you're bouncing down the road your head WILL flop about, lightweight lid or not. I'm not Mr handsome by any means but I still would like to keep all the skin on my face, and without the scars too.

You say you have been riding for 50 years without incident, you're one of the lucky few, so you have no personal experience of how a helmet can help you. I have, a long time ago in wet weather I slid about 50M down the road, I was covered in scratches and cuts......except for my head/face. A helmet will stop/lessen head injuries, but only up to a point, beyond that nothing will save your bonce, but it will ensure you keep your good looks, if it doesn't then you never had a chance in the first place.

Back on topic I agree that most of the time the police checks are only about tea money, Thailand in general only seems to pay lip service to safetly. So far I've never been stopped on my bike, more than once in my car for fantasy

infringements though.

[Johpa]

Morale of the story....Wear a helmet,they are crazy on the roads in all Thailand.

If you have an accident without a hat you are asking for trouble....

While driving back from CMU yesterday on the canal road saw a motorbike on the side of the road, must have happened just seconds before I came upon it because there were no hordes of people yet. One person was being helped up but another was lying still straddling the bike with his head on the pavement and blood running out. He wasn't moving and still feel sick seeing something like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, if you haven't seen a motorcyclist lying either dead or dieing along the side of the road it means you either haven't been in Chiang Mai too long or that you don't get out much.

But back to the topic, the reason the police stop motorcyclists and not so much sedan drivers is the same reason that Phichai Ratakul was able to build his rural retreat out of teak whilst poor people who used teak for their doors were fined and put in jail, and the same reason that a dog licks its balls, because they can.

Wealthy people for the most part do not ride motorbikes. They police can get money for minor violations of the law without fear of some enraged phuu yai having them transfered to some far flung provincal backwater. Although we here may rationalize it all as a safety concern, and that is fair enough, that is simply not the reasoning of the police as far more glaring violations of safety are easy enough to find on the roads, especially relative to trucks and buses. It is just much safer to shake down poor people and keep them in fear of the authorities while leaving the shaking down of the rich to the politicians.

[Tywais]

While driving back from CMU yesterday on the canal road saw a motorbike on the side of the road, must have happened just seconds before I came upon it because there were no hordes of people yet.  One person was being helped up but another was lying still straddling the bike with his head on the pavement and blood running out. He wasn't moving and still feel sick seeing something like that. 

Hey, if you haven't seen a motorcyclist lying either dead or dieing along the side of the road it means you either haven't been in Chiang Mai too long or that you don't get out much.

Been here for 14 year and am "out" on the road every single day. Have seen many, but I'm not jaded enough to not still 'feel sick' when I see it. I will never have a cavalier attitude about it as you seem to have.

[RDN]

Back on topic... just north of Karon beach..

Back on topic - isn't this a Chiangmai forum..?...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't mention Phuket first - someone else did...

... Phuket on the other hand,completely different...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[grrr]

It only takes a bit of our time to examine the statistics of states in America (no bias here) where helmet laws have been reapealed to understand the real issue:

Do helmets actually save lives..?

The answer is clearly, no.

Umm, not according to a lot of other statistics. For example...from "The Hurt Report":

46. The most deadly injuries to the accident victims were injuries to the chest and head.

47. The use of the safety helmet is the single critical factor in the prevention of reduction of head injury; the safety helmet which complies with FMVSS 218 is a significantly effective injury countermeasure.

50. Helmeted riders and passengers showed significantly lower head and neck injury for all types of injury, at all levels of injury severity.

51. The increased coverage of the full facial coverage helmet increases protection, and significantly reduces face injuries.

52. There is no liability for neck injury by wearing a safety helmet; helmeted riders had less neck injuries than unhelmeted riders. Only four minor injuries were attributable to helmet use, and in each case the helmet prevented possible critical or fatal head injury.

Etc.

Personally I wear a helmet putting around Chiang Mai, same as I wear a helmet on long, out of the city trips. I've split a mountain bike helmet in half with my head inside it (while riding my mountain bike in Chiang Mai). Pavement is really hard...

[ray23]

It only takes a bit of our time to examine the statistics of states in America (no bias here) where helmet laws have been reapealed to understand the real issue:

Do helmets actually save lives..?

The answer is clearly, no.

Umm, not according to a lot of other statistics. For example...from "The Hurt Report":

46. The most deadly injuries to the accident victims were injuries to the chest and head.

47. The use of the safety helmet is the single critical factor in the prevention of reduction of head injury; the safety helmet which complies with FMVSS 218 is a significantly effective injury countermeasure.

50. Helmeted riders and passengers showed significantly lower head and neck injury for all types of injury, at all levels of injury severity.

51. The increased coverage of the full facial coverage helmet increases protection, and significantly reduces face injuries.

52. There is no liability for neck injury by wearing a safety helmet; helmeted riders had less neck injuries than unhelmeted riders. Only four minor injuries were attributable to helmet use, and in each case the helmet prevented possible critical or fatal head injury.

Etc.

Personally I wear a helmet putting around Chiang Mai, same as I wear a helmet on long, out of the city trips. I've split a mountain bike helmet in half with my head inside it (while riding my mountain bike in Chiang Mai). Pavement is really hard...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok the cops stop you because they can.

Helmets up to you, this is not like the states, you go down and you are a veggy they won't keep you here long and the locals taxes won't pay the hospital bills.

We were just broadsided by a pickup, there was a four inch deep scratch mark on the top my wifes helmet, she did a endo. No helemt that would have been the top of her head. That is the second time a helmet saved someone I care about.

We ended up with some scratches and sore, that was it.

You will not be a financial burden on the rest of us, your lack of a helmet will not make the other driver suffer injuries. So a I said up 2 U

[PeaceBlondie]

The Hurt Report, now over 20 years old, definitely and definitively proved that helmets save lives. Motorcyclist magazine in the USA had a long set of articles about two months ago that agreed with the same conclusion as Dr. Hurt did. Nobody wants to spend the money to do another research project. Motorcyclist mag. concluded also that the Snell Foundation criteria are too rigid, too hard and unrealistic.

When you lose somebody you love, such as your best student, because he wasn't wearing a helmet, you may become irrationally pro-helmet.

[Johpa]

Hey, if you haven't seen a motorcyclist lying either dead or dieing along the side of the road it means you either haven't been in Chiang Mai too long or that you don't get out much.

Been here for 14 year and am "out" on the road every single day. Have seen many, but I'm not jaded enough to not still 'feel sick' when I see it. I will never have a cavalier attitude about it as you seem to have.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Never say never. After numerous near death experiences on the Thai roadways, mostly accumulated on my former commute to work on the old 2-lane Mae Jo road, and after seeing the results of road fatalities, and after attending neighbor's funerals for those who died on the roadways, yes, I suppose I have developed a bit of a cavalier attitude as a defense mechanism. And it can happen to you although the road systems are now greatly improved with all the multi-lane divided highways. But having a cavalier attitude does not mean my stomach and my psyche do not knot up when I witness a fatality.