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Morality

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Have you ever wondered as you trip through this fantastic world, if somewhere about your person you carry a yardstick?

Something that tells you what is right or wrong?

For some it could be: everything that makes money is OK; the rest is just a waste of time.

For others it could be everything they perceive as fun is OK; the rest is just a load of rubbish.

There are some, like myself, who use the simple maxim “do unto others as you would have them do to you” – and before I get flamed to death, I must add, I’m not very good at it.

But what do you use?

What makes you say, no I’m not going to do that, it is wrong?

Or this is the right thing to do; therefore I am going to do it?

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People have different perimeters on morality don't they.

I for example would never hurt an animal but I wouldn't think twice about downloading the new Supertramp anthology instead of going out and buying it.

I will always repay a debt to someone I have spoken to personally as soon as possible, even if they have forgotten about it, but a debt collection agency can whistle out their arse for it until I am good and ready to pay it off in very small installments.

I would urinate against the side of a church but I would never drop litter in a graveyard.

I would condone a mass culling of low-life thugs and teenage baby factories in order to save the U.K. from it's inevitable fate but I would never hang up on somebody during a phone call.

I would spray a wasp with fly killer but I wouldn't maliciously watch it break-dancing on the window sill waiting for it to suffer a slow death, I would take it outside and stomp on it.

Savvy?

But what do you use?

I heard once that Colin Powell was asked about people that he respected and admired. One of the people he mentioned was MLK, for which the follow-up question was how could a career warrior respect and admire a pacifist? Powell responded by saying something like, I view people by their own standards not by my own. Ever since I read that, I've tried (albeit unsuccessfully at times) to take a similar stance.

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I would spray a wasp with fly killer but I wouldn't maliciously watch it break-dancing on the window sill waiting for it to suffer a slow death, I would take it outside and stomp on it.

Savvy?

Now I am ridden with guilt - you have just destroyed one of my autumn pleasures.

On the question of animals: if the choice was between the life a favourite pet and the life of a human being - which would be chosen and why?

(this is not specifically addressed to TGS)

Moral Yardsticks ? Hmmmm,

1) Do unto others, before they do unto you.

2) Live and Let Die.

3) Nuke 'em all and let God sort them out (though I don't believe in God).

4) Trust no one.

5) The Truth is "out" there.

6) Always check your "bin" after ordering drinks (see #4 above).

7) Accept reality for what it is.

8) Don't invite "significant others" to parties at the FLB bar again !

Which would you choose, the life of a favorite pet (fish excluded), or a life without eating any meat?

no no no no

Which would you choose, living with 20 soi dogs next door that ALWAYS disturbed your sleep , or a life without meat?

no no no no

Which would you choose, being forced to smoke marijuana every day, or to be forced to eat liver fried with onions every third Tuesday for the rest of your life?

no no no no

Which would you choose, six of one or a half dozen of the other?

On the question of animals: if the choice was between the life a favourite pet and the life of a human being - which would be chosen and why?

Depends who the person was and how old or ill the pet was.

I don't think ALL humans are better than animals, far from it.

There are many people on this planet who simply don't need to be here.

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On the question of animals: if the choice was between the life a favourite pet and the life of a human being - which would be chosen and why?

Depends who the person was and how old or ill the pet was.

I don't think ALL humans are better than animals, far from it.

There are many people on this planet who simply don't need to be here.

I doubt you are that relative in reality, even though it does remind me of the teacher who told me, several of his students objected to philosopher Immanuel Kant's "principle of humanity"--the doctrine that asserts the unique dignity and worth of every human life. They told him that if they were faced with the choice between saving their pet or a human being, they would choose the former.

I doubt you are that relative in reality, even though it does remind me of the teacher who told me, several of his students objected to philosopher Immanuel Kant's "principle of humanity"--the doctrine that asserts the unique dignity and worth of every human life. They told him that if they were faced with the choice between saving their pet or a human being, they would choose the former.

But if actually faced with that decision would they still choose an animal who was ignorant of the choice being made to a fellow human pleading for his/her life?

Morality in real life I think is often different than on paper.

cv

I'm with Scampy on this one I am afraid. People often have the choice to live the life they do. Animals don't. I would help a child or an animal but not an adult. I never give to beggars but don't feel I am a coldhearted person. I just have my own "yardstick" as it were and that doesn't necessarily include all people.

My major rules of life: I try to treat other people as I would like to be treated, I believe that putting yourself in anothers shoes is the only way to understand how someone else can feel (not including beggars. Sorry but they get up my nose as you Brits like to say).

I am never cruel to animals or kids.

Honesty about myself and others is always the best policy.

Notice, I don't mention anything about being nice, just decent.

Oh, and last rule was always my favorite (closet Trekkie) as Scotty said: Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Its not that I don't forgive, I just don't forget.

I doubt you are that relative in reality, even though it does remind me of the teacher who told me, several of his students objected to philosopher Immanuel Kant's "principle of humanity"--the doctrine that asserts the unique dignity and worth of every human life. They told him that if they were faced with the choice between saving their pet or a human being, they would choose the former.

But if actually faced with that decision would they still choose an animal who was ignorant of the choice being made to a fellow human pleading for his/her life?

Morality in real life I think is often different than on paper.

cv

You would be surprised the number of people that would pick the former.

If you see a person being mistreated on TV...nobody gives a <deleted>.See a little doggy/cat being mistreated and the TV phone lines are jammed with complaints.This is what actually happens.

It's like an distant relative of mine that left nearly all of her money to the Auckland Zoo when she died.Her children, (Who were good people and struggling financially) got bugger all. :o There are many people out threre that will always pick the critter.

  • Author
People have different perimeters ...

I have a fence, my neighbour has a wall.

Mending Wall by Robert Frost

Something there is that doesn't love a wall,

That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it

And spills the upper boulder in the sun,

And make gaps even two can pass abreast.

The work of hunters is another thing:

I have come after them and made repair

Where they have left not one stone on a stone,

But they would have the rabbit out of hiding,

To please the yelping dogs. The gaps I mean,

No one has seen them made or heard them made,

But at spring mending-time we find them there,

I let my neighbor know beyond the hill;

And on a day we meet to walk the line

And set the wall between us once again.

We keep the wall between us as we go.

To each the boulders that have fallen to each.

And some are loaves and some so nearly balls

We have to use a spell to make them balance:

"Stay where you are until our backs are turned!"

We wear our fingers rough with handling them.

Oh, just another kind of outdoor game,

One on a side. It comes to little more:

There where it is we do not need the wall:

He is all pine and I am apple orchard.

My apple trees will never get across

And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.

He only says, "Good fences make good neighbors."

Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder

If I could put a notion in his head:

"Why do they make good neighbors? Isn't it

Where there are cows? But here there are no cows.

Before I built a wall I'd ask to know

What I was walling in or walling out,

And to whom I was like to give offense.

Something there is that doesn't love a wall,

That wants it down." I could say "Elves" to him,

But it's not elves exactly, and I'd rather

He said it for himself. I see him there,

Bringing a stone grasped firmly by the top

In each hand, like an old-stone savage armed.

He moves in darkness as it seems to me,

Not of woods only and the shade of trees.

He will not go behind his father's saying,

And he likes having thought of it so well

He says again, "Good fences make good neighbors."

I believe that putting yourself in anothers shoes is the only way to understand how someone else can feel

And isn't it amazing how many people fail to do that or can't?

By the way SB, that is the best and truest quote I've read on here in a long time.

...as you Brits like to say

I thought you were English... :o Aussie?

On the question of animals: if the choice was between the life a favourite pet and the life of a human being - which would be chosen and why?

(this is not specifically addressed to TGS)

I think the choice is not really relevant as long as you accept the consequences of your decision. If it was wrong it was wrong and if it was right it was right. End of story.

People have different perimeters on morality don't they.

A different definition maybe but as a famous writer once wrote "you either lead, follow or get out of the way"

I believe that putting yourself in anothers shoes is the only way to understand how someone else can feel

And isn't it amazing how many people fail to do that or can't?

By the way SB, that is the best and truest quote I've read on here in a long time.

...as you Brits like to say
I thought you were English... :o Aussie?

American. Just hang out with lots of Brits and Aussies. Picked up alot of the way of talking. I get very funny looks when I go home and say something like, "I really fancy some strawberries" :D

There´s not really a right answer to this. My morality, to echo some previous points, extends basically to having fun =more important than money, and having an intelligent faith in life, or wise choice in friends, or those I allow into my life, or who graciously allow me into theirs.

I wouldn´t do unto others what I wouldn´t like myself, for anything harmful. I do like to tease lightheartedly, but with those I believe know I like ´em really. Not people who don{t know me or who are defensless...

(well, except "Big Tony" :o I´d downright bully him if I could. )

With humans being fundamentally flawed to begin with, perhaps all of us are a poor judge of morality.

  • Author
With humans being fundamentally flawed to begin with, perhaps all of us are a poor judge of morality.

I think you are missing the point here.

Nobody is judging.

All I am asking is how do you decide what is right and wrong?

What is your yardstick?

But what do you use?

I heard once that Colin Powell was asked about people that he respected and admired. One of the people he mentioned was MLK, for which the follow-up question was how could a career warrior respect and admire a pacifist? Powell responded by saying something like, I view people by their own standards not by my own. Ever since I read that, I've tried (albeit unsuccessfully at times) to take a similar stance.

I am not sure I understand exactly what the implications are of this stance.

Do you mean that if a person lives as he/she learns, it is good, even if he/she has chosen differently than yourself, or something else?

With humans being fundamentally flawed to begin with, perhaps all of us are a poor judge of morality.

I think you are missing the point here.

Nobody is judging.

All I am asking is how do you decide what is right and wrong?

What is your yardstick?

I completely understood your point Thomas. Each person is going to have their own ways but comparing them is pointless. I'll answer anyway.

To decide between right or wrong, I will try to peer over every detail in the equation, prioritize them and make a decision based on my values.

  • Author
With humans being fundamentally flawed to begin with, perhaps all of us are a poor judge of morality.

I think you are missing the point here.

Nobody is judging.

All I am asking is how do you decide what is right and wrong?

What is your yardstick?

I completely understood your point Thomas. Each person is going to have their own ways but comparing them is pointless. I'll answer anyway.

To decide between right or wrong, I will try to peer over every detail in the equation, prioritize them and make a decision based on my values.

I still read a suspicion in your replies.

The intention of this thread is not to make comparisons - no more than you would compare a rose with a tulip.

It is to, hopefully, get some indication of how members decide what is right and what is wrong. What are their values?

Not for the sake of some morbid curiosity, but to gain some practical help in solving life's little problems.

Not the least of which, on a personal level, is how to convey, in a manner he will accept and remember, values and methods of making judgements, to my six year old son.

Given that I have vowed never to say, "because I say so".

I'm with the "Do unto others..." brigade. Which can be pretty tough here - Phuket - with so many selfish, 'me first', types - both farang and Thai. But, sod 'em all, I won't change.

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