Society Prejudiced Against The Uneducated Poor, Seminar Hears

[Lite Beer]

EQUAL RIGHTS

Society prejudiced against the uneducated poor, seminar hears

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation on Sunday

Children are being 'taught to acquire an elitist approach against the poor'

Bias in society against poor people with low education poses a major barrier for the acceptance of equal political rights in Thailand, a symposium concluded yesterday

Some parents are making their young children look down on poor people like street sweepers by inculcating the idea that they should study hard in order to avoid becoming a street sweeper, said red-shirt co-leader and Pheu Thai MP Wiphuthalang Phattanaphumthai. "They make children hate street sweepers from early childhood. But how can Bangkok survive if all street sweepers stop working for a day?"

Wiphuthalang said the elitist viewpoint that looks down on the poor and less educated, especially those from the North and Northeastern regions, does not necessarily arise from one's social background.

"You are elite or serf not by birth but from your consciousness. It is a threat to the democratic system," he said, at the symposium on myths about lowly educated poor Thais being stupid and a drag on Thai society.

The meeting was organised by Thailand Mirror, a liberal group of red shirts, at the October 14 Monument. The event comes at a time when some formally educated Thais who are disappointed by the latest general election results began asking whether Thailand should continue to accept the concept of universal suffrage or not.

"The chains that kept us in servitude were not physical ones but mental ones," Wiphuthalang said, adding that although King Rama V ended slavery a century ago, many Thais continue to want to be enslaved by the elite.

Attachai Anantamaek, former TV star and an active red-shirt member, said those who looked down on poor and less educated people were "extreme right wing conservative". He said society should recognise that those with higher educational qualification are not necessarily smarter, as others could also learn to be wise through their life experience and from discussing and deliberating issues with others.

"It's a mistake to think that educated people are smart. There's no one who is knowledgeable about everything. Sometimes, by reading more books you end up being the kind of person that [the ruling elite] wants you to be."

The panel also discussed the role of lese majeste law in hampering freedom of political speech and concluded that more efforts were needed to push for the amendment if not for the abolition of the law so people can discuss real politics openly.

Chiang Rai MP for Pheu Thai, Visaradee Techateerawat, said even though the stereotype of poor and less educated people being naive and not befitting of equal political right exists, the majority of the people can still make their political voice count by binding together during elections.

Visaradee added that sometimes she discovers that working class people like motorcycle taxi driver know more about some political issues than she does. She also added that although a number of villagers still accept vote-buying money from politicians to vote for certain candidates or party, the increasing reality is that they do not always vote for the party which gave them money.

-- The Nation 2011-08-21

[moe666]

I think that it is world wide.

[jonclark]

"She also added that although a number of villagers still accept vote-buying money from politicians to vote for certain candidates or party, the increasing reality is that they do not always vote for the party which gave them money."

Not sure in what light she is trying to paint villagers here?

They a bunch of dishonest crooks who will take your money and not do what they told you they would when they accepted the money. Or perhaps its a message to politicians that villagers are just taking them for a ride?

[JurgenG]

I think that it is world wide.

Not exactly.

In the USA, Switzerland and most of Europe, at birth, in theory I agree, everybody is equal.

It's in theory of course but it already makes a difference in people mind

[OzMick]

I'm sure Pheu Thai MP Wiphuthalang Phattanaphumthai aspires for his own children to become street sweepers, maybe even work their way up to the garbage truck. It seems they may have inherited the job requirements.

"Chiang Rai MP for Pheu Thai, Visaradee Techateerawat....... added that sometimes she discovers that working class people like motorcycle taxi driver know more about some political issues than she does." Why am I not surprised?

Education doesn't make you smarter, or better able to make decisions. Have I wasted most of my life? Should I have spent all that time getting drunk and swapping BS with the garbos and taxi drivers, the path to real wisdom and understanding? Years spent studying electrical engineering part-time when the village idiot could have told me not to piss on a power socket, because he tried it and it hurts!

A little gem emerged in the last few days - the here today, stuffed tomorrow tablets are coming out of the budget allocated to free uniforms and textbooks. Which of the 2 policies would keep kids at school longer and increase their education. PTP doesn't want schoolkids reading books because it might make them feel that they are smart, or at least smarter than PTP.

This little discourse rings a memory bell from events in a neighbouring country. Nowadays, it is called the Killing Fields

[jaltsc]

Considering the education system in Thailand, I am reminded of a quote by Mark Twain: "I never let schooling get in the way of my education".

[whybother]

What a load of crap.

What parents would aspire for the kid to grow up to be a street sweeper? How is that an "elitist approach"?

Are they saying that people from the North and North East all grow up wanting to be street sweepers?

[Chang_paarp]

Of course it has nothing to do with the Thai soap operas having everyone in a minor job or the criminals having dark skin and a northern accent.

With the heroes having fair skin. With manners and actions befitting spoilt brats.

[kerryk]

It it obvious at a young age the children who will succeed in the world and those who will become motosci drivers and bar girls. In my experience they are locked into a career path by 4th grade. Of course drugs and early pregnancy can change a motivated student at any age into a non motivated one.

There is however a drastic difference between the offspring of rich and poor kids. I have watched the man who owns my condo building raise one daughter for 4 years and he is merciless about her homework but he helps her every day. He is a far better father in that respect than I was in the West. I have also watched the Korean and Japanese kids who live here and they don't have a minute to themselves (activities every day 7 days a week).

The offspring of rich children IMHO are driven by constant planned activities, tutors and such. The poor kids play and smoke and drink. So everyone gets about what they deserve.

The middle class can swing either way. It has been my experience they tend to favor strict standards for their children even though they go to government schools. It is easy to threaten these student by telling them you will call their parents if they don't straighten up.

I don't see that pointing out that poor people are lazy and dumb is much of a negative thing. They are. If a Thai kid in a government school is motivated and works hard he or she can advance. The opportunities are there. Even if the learning is by repetition 2 and 2 still equal 4.

In every station in life some lead and some follow. In every bar there is a mamma san.

[KhunBJ]

Same same different place ...

[Murtle71]

perhaps paying the street sweeper a working wage that allows him to take care of his family would be a good start

[kerryk]

perhaps paying the street sweeper a working wage that allows him to take care of his family would be a good start

As interesting as that sounds that is the basis of socialism or communism and that is what is wrecking the Western economies right now. One of the reasons that America is no longer the steel producing king of the world was 13 weeks of vacation per year for steelworkers. Unions started with a minimum wage and soon accelerated to include benefits that eventually broke the industry.

Get the streets cleaned for the wage that people will do the job. If Thais don't want to clean them then Burmese will.

If you want to rise on the social ladder guarantee education for everyone and let them work their way up. There are many good jobs available for educated people who can actually add and subtract and show up for work on a regular basis.

Sooner or later everyone will realize it is a global economy. Hard work and education will be the eventual keys to success. Let the market work, regulation rarely works. Don't bail out the bankers and don't subsidize the garbage workers. Let them both enjoy the fruits of their labor.

[henryalleman]

Some parents are making their young children look down on poor people like street sweepers by inculcating the idea that they should study hard in order to avoid becoming a street sweeper, said red-shirt co-leader and Pheu Thai MP Wiphuthalang Phattanaphumthai. "They make children hate street sweepers from early childhood.

This is bull, come on lets be serious. Parents teach their children to hate street sweepers or poor people, just laughable.

"You are elite or serf not by birth but from your consciousness. It is a threat to the democratic system," he said,

How this can be a treat to democracy, when there never was or is democracy in Thailand

"The chains that kept us in servitude were not physical ones but mental ones," Wiphuthalang said, adding that although King Rama V ended slavery a century ago, many Thais continue to want to be enslaved by the elite.

The whole Thai society is based on servitude and Kow Tow. Poor or elite all alike are enslaved and victims of the still feudal system in Thailand.

"It's a mistake to think that educated people are smart. There's no one who is knowledgeable about everything. Sometimes, by reading more books you end up being the kind of person that [the ruling elite] wants you to be."

People who make such statement are very dangerous.

Is burning all the books his ultimate goal and go to a Khmer rouge kind of society. Everybody poor and dumb but equal.

the majority of the people can still make their political voice count by binding together during elections.

This is the biggest crap, I ever read.

Its not only the poor and uneducated who don't vote by their own conscious; And its not only vote buying who influence who you vote for.

Just give you one example,

My grandson who is an educated man with en bachelor degree, answered me on my question who he voted for. Told me he voted for PTP. When I asked him why (because all the family are against reds and Thaksin. He answered very simply. My boss voted PTP, so I have to vote for them also. And it is many times like this in Thailand. You simply vote for the one your boss vote for. Can you imagion that a civil servant in Isaan not votes for PTP, or an civil servant in the south not vote for the democrats. And this go for employees also. In most cases they vote for the same party as their superior, or company owner.

[TheWalkingMan]

The offspring of rich children IMHO are driven by constant planned activities, tutors and such. The poor kids play and smoke and drink.

A couple of times I tried to explain this to some of the locals at the lower end of the income/education spectrum and for the most part they cannot understand the concept. Their comment is usually something like, "Kids need to have fun." Very few seem to have the idea about having the kids staying busy with scheduled activities to keep them on the right path.

TheWalkingMan

[Considered Opinion]

I think the whole thing is being hugely over-simplified. The red-shirts refer to the elites (actually in most instances the dems), as elites because if they meet in the street, the sweeper wai's properly to the elite. It's an accepted role for both parties. What gets up the nose of most Dems is that the country classes were wooed by Shinawatra and now his sister, with the promise of a buffalo back in the late 90's before Shinawatra got elected the first time.

I said in my village at the time, "this man will f*** Thailand", but most saw my point, few believed me. I also said he had misnamed his party, whach at the time, was Thai Rak Thai, but should have been Thai Yed Thai.

I pointed out several things:

1. Not sufficient buffalo in Thailand for all to have one.
   
2. Few farms had enough room to house a buffalo
   
3. Few of the farmers knew how to manage a buffalo
   
4. Every one already had an iron bufflalo
   

Irrespective, the Shin train won, and even though the buffalo never arrived, and even though Shinawatra and his gang wouldn't piss on a Thai farmer if he was on fire, the farmers still out-number the "elites", so the Dems don't get up and Thailand gets hung out to dry by the farmers who in reality are generally so incredibly stupid as to believe anything a Shinawtra says.

This then means that in the long term, Thailand is f*****, hoist on its' own pettard. Further, it means that few things will change, since few farmers sons, become bankers. Though thankfully, I know one who has, which is what gives me hope for the future.

[Murtle71]

perhaps paying the street sweeper a working wage that allows him to take care of his family would be a good start

As interesting as that sounds that is the basis of socialism or communism and that is what is wrecking the Western economies right now. One of the reasons that America is no longer the steel producing king of the world was 13 weeks of vacation per year for steelworkers. Unions started with a minimum wage and soon accelerated to include benefits that eventually broke the industry.

Get the streets cleaned for the wage that people will do the job. If Thais don't want to clean them then Burmese will.

If you want to rise on the social ladder guarantee education for everyone and let them work their way up. There are many good jobs available for educated people who can actually add and subtract and show up for work on a regular basis.

Sooner or later everyone will realize it is a global economy. Hard work and education will be the eventual keys to success. Let the market work, regulation rarely works. Don't bail out the bankers and don't subsidize the garbage workers. Let them both enjoy the fruits of their labor.

what garbage i hope you have someone to clean this crap up for you

[thaicbr]

The offspring of rich children IMHO are driven by constant planned activities, tutors and such. The poor kids play and smoke and drink.

A couple of times I tried to explain this to some of the locals at the lower end of the income/education spectrum and for the most part they cannot understand the concept. Their comment is usually something like, "Kids need to have fun." Very few seem to have the idea about having the kids staying busy with scheduled activities to keep them on the right path.

TheWalkingMan

Actually kids should and do need to have fun especially in the earlier years of their lives. And to much fun as well as to much sheduled activities are bad for kids.. That's one of the reasons that they actually do badly at school in the later years.. There also should be more input from the parents..... But back to the thread... I would imagine that street sweepers also want their kids to strive for a better job.

[stevo9er]

perhaps paying the street sweeper a working wage that allows him to take care of his family would be a good start

As interesting as that sounds that is the basis of socialism or communism and that is what is wrecking the Western economies right now. One of the reasons that America is no longer the steel producing king of the world was 13 weeks of vacation per year for steelworkers. Unions started with a minimum wage and soon accelerated to include benefits that eventually broke the industry.

Get the streets cleaned for the wage that people will do the job. If Thais don't want to clean them then Burmese will.

If you want to rise on the social ladder guarantee education for everyone and let them work their way up. There are many good jobs available for educated people who can actually add and subtract and show up for work on a regular basis.

Sooner or later everyone will realize it is a global economy. Hard work and education will be the eventual keys to success. Let the market work, regulation rarely works. Don't bail out the bankers and don't subsidize the garbage workers. Let them both enjoy the fruits of their labor.

I just threw up in my mouth a little.

[scotbeve]

Of course it has nothing to do with the Thai soap operas having everyone in a minor job or the criminals having dark skin and a northern accent.

With the heroes having fair skin. With manners and actions befitting spoilt brats.

Too true Chang.... way too true. Sad isn't it????

[kerryk]

perhaps paying the street sweeper a working wage that allows him to take care of his family would be a good start

As interesting as that sounds that is the basis of socialism or communism and that is what is wrecking the Western economies right now. One of the reasons that America is no longer the steel producing king of the world was 13 weeks of vacation per year for steelworkers. Unions started with a minimum wage and soon accelerated to include benefits that eventually broke the industry.

Get the streets cleaned for the wage that people will do the job. If Thais don't want to clean them then Burmese will.

If you want to rise on the social ladder guarantee education for everyone and let them work their way up. There are many good jobs available for educated people who can actually add and subtract and show up for work on a regular basis.

Sooner or later everyone will realize it is a global economy. Hard work and education will be the eventual keys to success. Let the market work, regulation rarely works. Don't bail out the bankers and don't subsidize the garbage workers. Let them both enjoy the fruits of their labor.

what garbage i hope you have someone to clean this crap up for you

Your reply is a flame. It is impolite and rude. If you don't agree with me, no problem but have the courtesy to tell us all why.

[kerryk]

perhaps paying the street sweeper a working wage that allows him to take care of his family would be a good start

As interesting as that sounds that is the basis of socialism or communism and that is what is wrecking the Western economies right now. One of the reasons that America is no longer the steel producing king of the world was 13 weeks of vacation per year for steelworkers. Unions started with a minimum wage and soon accelerated to include benefits that eventually broke the industry.

Get the streets cleaned for the wage that people will do the job. If Thais don't want to clean them then Burmese will.

If you want to rise on the social ladder guarantee education for everyone and let them work their way up. There are many good jobs available for educated people who can actually add and subtract and show up for work on a regular basis.

Sooner or later everyone will realize it is a global economy. Hard work and education will be the eventual keys to success. Let the market work, regulation rarely works. Don't bail out the bankers and don't subsidize the garbage workers. Let them both enjoy the fruits of their labor.

I just threw up in my mouth a little.

Your reply is a flame. It is impolite and rude. If you don't agree with me, no problem but have the courtesy to tell us all why.

[thaicbr]

perhaps paying the street sweeper a working wage that allows him to take care of his family would be a good start

As interesting as that sounds that is the basis of socialism or communism and that is what is wrecking the Western economies right now. One of the reasons that America is no longer the steel producing king of the world was 13 weeks of vacation per year for steelworkers. Unions started with a minimum wage and soon accelerated to include benefits that eventually broke the industry.

Get the streets cleaned for the wage that people will do the job. If Thais don't want to clean them then Burmese will.

If you want to rise on the social ladder guarantee education for everyone and let them work their way up. There are many good jobs available for educated people who can actually add and subtract and show up for work on a regular basis.

Sooner or later everyone will realize it is a global economy. Hard work and education will be the eventual keys to success. Let the market work, regulation rarely works. Don't bail out the bankers and don't subsidize the garbage workers. Let them both enjoy the fruits of their labor.

I just threw up in my mouth a little.

Your reply is a flame. It is impolite and rude. If you don't agree with me, no problem but have the courtesy to tell us all why.

Well. The only part that is wrong on your post is that street cleaners should be getting the minimum wage... the same as others. but do they? If employed by a government agency then yes.

Maybe the current minimum wage is not enough. But that issue is for another thread. but that is the minimum they should be paid, same as some unskilled factory workers etc.

Thats the main problem in this country. It is very difficult for the poorer people to attain additional skills. there are very few short courses etc that people can go on (even if they could afford to) so once in a job very difficult to change.

[OzMick]

Seems like we have some old friends re-enlisting under new names.

[desmondf]

perhaps paying the street sweeper a working wage that allows him to take care of his family would be a good start

As interesting as that sounds that is the basis of socialism or communism and that is what is wrecking the Western economies right now. One of the reasons that America is no longer the steel producing king of the world was 13 weeks of vacation per year for steelworkers. Unions started with a minimum wage and soon accelerated to include benefits that eventually broke the industry.

Get the streets cleaned for the wage that people will do the job. If Thais don't want to clean them then Burmese will.

If you want to rise on the social ladder guarantee education for everyone and let them work their way up. There are many good jobs available for educated people who can actually add and subtract and show up for work on a regular basis.

Sooner or later everyone will realize it is a global economy. Hard work and education will be the eventual keys to success. Let the market work, regulation rarely works. Don't bail out the bankers and don't subsidize the garbage workers. Let them both enjoy the fruits of their labor.

I just threw up in my mouth a little.

Your reply is a flame. It is impolite and rude. If you don't agree with me, no problem but have the courtesy to tell us all why.

I do think that much of what Kerry said are practical facts. We are stuck in this global market economy, and hardwork and education is very important. However, some intervention may be necessary, any intervention should be carefully thought through and implemented.

In Thailand, I see many businesses that are very short of employees, and there are also many people who do not want to work. many these people/family can be much more well off than they are/already are. Educating the people is important, and changing their thinking too.

Edited August 21, 2011 by desmondf

[Jingthing]

These red shirts sound rather Maoist. Equality means equal opportunity, which is a great thing, not equal reality or results. It's not realistic to brainwash people into thinking a street sweeper and a brain surgeon are the same.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Jingthing

[Cnxforever]

perhaps paying the street sweeper a working wage that allows him to take care of his family would be a good start

As interesting as that sounds that is the basis of socialism or communism and that is what is wrecking the Western economies right now. One of the reasons that America is no longer the steel producing king of the world was 13 weeks of vacation per year for steelworkers. Unions started with a minimum wage and soon accelerated to include benefits that eventually broke the industry.

Get the streets cleaned for the wage that people will do the job. If Thais don't want to clean them then Burmese will.

If you want to rise on the social ladder guarantee education for everyone and let them work their way up. There are many good jobs available for educated people who can actually add and subtract and show up for work on a regular basis.

Sooner or later everyone will realize it is a global economy. Hard work and education will be the eventual keys to success. Let the market work, regulation rarely works. Don't bail out the bankers and don't subsidize the garbage workers. Let them both enjoy the fruits of their labor.

you are so wrong - seems to me you are a product of capitalist brain washing. But it's not your fault having been bombarded by a media - that's owned and controlled by who - oh yes the capitalists who have failed us miserably - but they don'yt have to worry that they have destroyed the world economy for pure greed commiting the fraud of the century for which no one goes to jail in the US - they are already filthy rich.

Why do you think the "happiest" people - and the "happiness index" confirms that every year - live in countries like Denmark, Sweden and others with a "social market economy" - because the everage Joe does not want riches - all he wants is a fairly normal education, a fairly normal life - to take care of his loved ones and to go to bed at night not thinking about how he will struggle tomorrow to provide for his family and survive another day!

[hammered]

perhaps paying the street sweeper a working wage that allows him to take care of his family would be a good start

As interesting as that sounds that is the basis of socialism or communism and that is what is wrecking the Western economies right now. One of the reasons that America is no longer the steel producing king of the world was 13 weeks of vacation per year for steelworkers. Unions started with a minimum wage and soon accelerated to include benefits that eventually broke the industry.

Get the streets cleaned for the wage that people will do the job. If Thais don't want to clean them then Burmese will.

If you want to rise on the social ladder guarantee education for everyone and let them work their way up. There are many good jobs available for educated people who can actually add and subtract and show up for work on a regular basis.

Sooner or later everyone will realize it is a global economy. Hard work and education will be the eventual keys to success. Let the market work, regulation rarely works. Don't bail out the bankers and don't subsidize the garbage workers. Let them both enjoy the fruits of their labor.

you are so wrong - seems to me you are a product of capitalist brain washing. But it's not your fault having been bombarded by a media - that's owned and controlled by who - oh yes the capitalists who have failed us miserably - but they don'yt have to worry that they have destroyed the world economy for pure greed commiting the fraud of the century for which no one goes to jail in the US - they are already filthy rich.

Why do you think the "happiest" people - and the "happiness index" confirms that every year - live in countries like Denmark, Sweden and others with a "social market economy" - because the everage Joe does not want riches - all he wants is a fairly normal education, a fairly normal life - to take care of his loved ones and to go to bed at night not thinking about how he will struggle tomorrow to provide for his family and survive another day!

Good to hear someone say it. Thank you

[Thakkar]

These red shirts sound rather Maoist. Equality means equal opportunity, which is a great thing, not equal reality or results. It's not realistic to brainwash people into thinking a street sweeper and a brain surgeon are the same.

I completely agree that equality should mean equal opportunity. 15 years of free compulsory education is a good start, but more needs to be done. It's now generally accepted that a lot of the foundation for healthy mental and emotional development takes place before the age of six. Children of low income families should have access to some sort of Montessori type education before they enter grade one.

Furthermore, an entire support structure (child care facilities near work, etc) is necessary before it can be claimed that there exist equal opportunities. The good news is that we're getting there, albeit in fits and spurts.

[Thakkar]

[<snip>

Sooner or later everyone will realize it is a global economy. Hard work and education will be the eventual keys to success. Let the market work, regulation rarely works. Don't bail out the bankers and don't subsidize the garbage workers. Let them both enjoy the fruits of their labor.

As a whiney, demanding teenager, I was told by my grandfather that in life, you don't get what you want; you get what you deserve.That is what you seem to be saying, and I have no argument with that. The thing is though that the bankers *did* get bailed out, while the CEO's who got us into this mess stayed out of jail and got to keep all their bonuses. Meanwhile the unemployment caused by their actions continues and unemployment insurance is allowed to run out. The reason for this is that the bankers are able to buy representation while the poor, regardless of who they voted for, have little representation.

Libertarianism is all well and good, if it could actually be put into practice. Some righteous intervention is warranted to level the playing field. The trick is to find a system in which there is a balance of power and when that balance gets skewed, as it inevitably will (trade unions get greedy too, as you've noted), there is a correcting mechanism.

[Jingthing]

Agreed. I wasn't implying that there was equal opportunity in Thailand. However, realistically, I think that's the proper goal, not a total flattening of society and demonization of elites. We know where that leads -- just google Chinese cultural revolution. Also, quite obviously, perfect equal opportunity is an ideal that can never be achieved. But good societies should keep trying anyway. Thailand, as they say, has a very target rich environment on these matters.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Jingthing