Swift Transfer

[sinbin]

I've just transferred some money from the UK to Thailand. My bank charged me 22 Pounds to do the transfer. On top of that, I was also charged an agency fee of 35 Pounds. Is this standard ? You may say 'ask your bank'. That I will do after establishing if the agency fee is correct, or not. Thanks.

I use 'Smile Banking'

[bifftastic]

I've never heard of an agency or any fee that said agency might charge!

Smile banking you say? Now you know why they're smiling!

I get charged £9.50 by Halifax and between 200 and 500 baht (based on a percentage 200 baht minimum 500 maximum) by Bangkok Bank at the other end.

[CharlieH]

If you have an account with Bangkok Bank, transfer it into London branch and they send it on to your Thai account, cost 20 quid, arrives in Thailand the day after it hits the London branch.

[ianguygil]

I had no idea who "Smile Banking" is until I just looked them up. So they are part of the Coop?

SWIFT works by moving money between banks who have relationships to each other. These banks are called "Correspondents". If your bank does not have a correspondent relationship with your Thai bank they will have to use "Intermediary banks" who do have a relationship with either your bank or another bank in Thailand. So the charge probably relates to these intermediaries.

I hope this helps. It is not possible to answer definitively unless you ask them.

Ian

[meatboy]

did your bank inform you of the charges,who filled in the trans.form,there is plenty of info on trans.charges in this forum.

[lopburi3]

There is a currency conversion fee at the Thai end for any receipt of non Thai funds (which is only .25% in range 200-500 baht). There is an intermediate bank fee that completes the transfer from your home bank to Thai bank but that is not much at all (deduction of funds transfer in 2-5$ range from my use in USA). So have no idea why a 35 pound "agency" fee would be charged in the UK but your bank should be able to explain if asked. Did you transfer pounds or dollars or baht?

[sinbin]

My bank didn't inform me of the breakdown until after the tranfer. I had to ask for the breakdown. I transfered British Pounds.

Hello Mr ***************

You where charged £21.25 in Smile SWIFT service charges and £35 in agents fees.

For SWIFT transfers, we charge 0.25% of the sterling value (minimum fee £13.00, maximum fee £35.00). Provided the information you give is correct, your transfer will be received within 3-5 working days. However, funds may sometimes be delayed by the banking practices of other countries.

With SWIFT transfers, the correspondent bank could also make a charge. This charge depends on the destination, amount and complexity of the transfer. As a guide, correspondent charges are around £9.00 - £35.00 (these are estimates). There can also be other possible agents fees (ie charges made by the beneficiary bank for receiving the transfer). If further agents fees do get charged back to your account then these can be debited from your account at a later date.

Thanks

Jamie

Edited August 24, 2011 by sinbin

[CharlieH]

My bank didn't inform me of the breakdown until after the tranfer. I had to ask for the breakdown. I transfered British Pounds.

Hello Mr ***************

You where charged £21.25 in Smile SWIFT service charges and £35 in agents fees.

For SWIFT transfers, we charge 0.25% of the sterling value (minimum fee £13.00, maximum fee £35.00). Provided the information you give is correct, your transfer will be received within 3-5 working days. However, funds may sometimes be delayed by the banking practices of other countries.

With SWIFT transfers, the correspondent bank could also make a charge. This charge depends on the destination, amount and complexity of the transfer. As a guide, correspondent charges are around £9.00 - £35.00 (these are estimates). There can also be other possible agents fees (ie charges made by the beneficiary bank for receiving the transfer). If further agents fees do get charged back to your account then these can be debited from your account at a later date.

Thanks

Jamie

I'd kick them in to touch immdeiately ! disgusting charges @ 56 quid+ , they would never get another penny

Edited August 24, 2011 by CharlieH

[meatboy]

smile and make a swift withdraw of all your funds.if you werent told about the fees make a complaint to the fsa.

[ianguygil]

My bank didn't inform me of the breakdown until after the tranfer. I had to ask for the breakdown. I transfered British Pounds.

Hello Mr ***************

You where charged £21.25 in Smile SWIFT service charges and £35 in agents fees.

For SWIFT transfers, we charge 0.25% of the sterling value (minimum fee £13.00, maximum fee £35.00). Provided the information you give is correct, your transfer will be received within 3-5 working days. However, funds may sometimes be delayed by the banking practices of other countries.

With SWIFT transfers, the correspondent bank could also make a charge. This charge depends on the destination, amount and complexity of the transfer. As a guide, correspondent charges are around £9.00 - £35.00 (these are estimates). There can also be other possible agents fees (ie charges made by the beneficiary bank for receiving the transfer). If further agents fees do get charged back to your account then these can be debited from your account at a later date.

Thanks

Jamie

Actually, while I totally agree that the charges are excessive, if you read this it does inform you that there maybe these extra chargs. You can see that they say that the Correspondent charges may be up to 35GBP. And you can see that they classify these as "Agent" charges as they use "other" in the next sentence. So I am pretty sure that are covered legally. Just not morally.

I would suggest, not trawling for business, that next time you transfer via our London branch. Then you simple send money from SMILE to us via the local BACS clearing service. Which should be VERY cheap. They our London branch effectively does an internal transfer to our Bangkok Bank headquarters. If you want to transfer onwards to another Thai bank you can do so via the local clearing system here.

PM me if you need details. It is all on our site www.bangkokbank.com

[sinbin]

So in this case the the 'agent' is the Bangkok Bank that has charged me 35 GBP. Is that correct ? If not, who are/is the 'agent' and what is/their purpose.

Edited August 24, 2011 by sinbin

[lopburi3]

The agent is likely the bank your bank uses for SWIFT transfer to Thailand. My US bank used Chase, New York and they charged $2 when I last used SWIFT several years ago. As said Bangkok Bank only charged the 200-500 baht fee which was removed after conversion into Baht at the Thai end.

[nong38]

Looks like the agent was the intermediate bank. You learn something every day, you will have to write this off to experience, now change your bank, dont rush think about where you go. Halifax do a good rate on swift transfers, dont know what they charge for foreign withdrawals. Metrobank charge £19.50 for swift but no foreign withdrawals charge (ATM ) but local banks will hit with 150bts a visit. So what fits best for you? Lots of good info already come your way from correspondents, now its up to you, good luck and you know we have all been caught at some time, last year Nationwide started charging for foreign withdrawals, nothing I could do til I got back, now with Metrobank,but, they are currently only around London.

[tomallison]

If you have an account with Bangkok Bank, transfer it into London branch and they send it on to your Thai account, cost 20 quid, arrives in Thailand the day after it hits the London branch.

That's an option to consider. I pay 20 pounds for a SWIFT transfer from Nationwide Offshore Bank. The funds arrive in my local Bangkok Bank the day after I request the transfer. The normal transfer fees are deducted at the receiving end.

[bifftastic]

Looks like the agent was the intermediate bank. You learn something every day, you will have to write this off to experience, now change your bank, dont rush think about where you go. Halifax do a good rate on swift transfers, dont know what they charge for foreign withdrawals. Metrobank charge £19.50 for swift but no foreign withdrawals charge (ATM ) but local banks will hit with 150bts a visit. So what fits best for you? Lots of good info already come your way from correspondents, now its up to you, good luck and you know we have all been caught at some time, last year Nationwide started charging for foreign withdrawals, nothing I could do til I got back, now with Metrobank,but, they are currently only around London.

Halifax charge £1.50 for foreign ATM withdrawals, their SWIFT charges have got to be amongst the lowest available, as far as I can tell, they don't use an intermediary either, there's never been any 'extra' charges when I've used their service, and the money has arrived in less than 12 hours to my Bangkok Bank account.

if you are being hit up for SWIFT charges (plus these 'agent's fees) then I would definitely try the Bangkok Bank London branch route. Your initial transfer to them should be free (although with your 'smile' account, that might not be the case!) it will definitely be very cheap. Then all you pay is the £15 for sending baht (to Thailand) or £20 for sending pounds. That way you know exactly what your costs will be and no more 'surprise!' from your smiling bank, who don't really seem to be a bank at all, just a go-between who 'sub out' all the tasks you give them and pass on the charges to you after they take their exorbitant fees first!

I can recommend Halifax's customer service as well, they recently noused up a transfer of mine meaning I had to use Western Union, after they refunded the transferred funds and charges to my account, they also included an extra £26.50 to compensate for the WU fees and lousy exchange rate.

It's a hassle switching banks, all your direct debits, salary payments etc. I guess it depends how often you want to use the SWIFT thing. Might be better to try moneybookers.com? Reasonable charges, takes a bit longer though.

[sinbin]

Looks like the agent was the intermediate bank. You learn something every day, you will have to write this off to experience, now change your bank, dont rush think about where you go.

I appreciate your advice but opening a new bank account in the UK ain't easy. I needed to open a second account in the UK so I thought go with the Co-operative bank, as already have an account there. I thought they'd open one up, no problem. Big mistake. They wanted proof of abode in Thailand, and my passport, no copies. It took so much hassle I nearly knocked it on the head. They already had all my details but insisted on asking for everything they already knew, no exceptions.

'Ianguygil', you recommend, next time, I transfer to the Bangkok Bank, London, first. Do I have to have an account in the London branch ?

Edit:- Last year I transfered 17,000 GBP costing 44 GBP in fees. This year the sum was 8,500 GBP costing 56 GBP. An increase of 50%.

Edited August 24, 2011 by sinbin

[monsieurhappy]

I've never heard of an agency or any fee that said agency might charge!

Smile banking you say? Now you know why they're smiling!

I get charged £9.50 by Halifax and between 200 and 500 baht (based on a percentage 200 baht minimum 500 maximum) by Bangkok Bank at the other end.

Could you please tell me if I can send sterling from a Halifax acc. to a Thai bank acc. so that I would get the TT rate this end or do the Halifax exchange into Thai baht before transfer?

[JamesSwan]

I bank out of the States,not the UK.The SWIFT thing has nothing to do with your fees.Everything depends on two banks.If a third bank is involved,then expect problems (Fees).Bangkok Bank seems the best of the lot in getting everything &everybody on the same page(at least with USA banking)Bank of Bangkok New York,does all government "Direct deposits"(Social Security and Embassy government checks)as well as private companies.They charge the least & provide the best exchange rates.I had a third party bank in the past,and it was a (BIG PROBLEM).Chohg Dee!

[ianguygil]

So in this case the the 'agent' is the Bangkok Bank that has charged me 35 GBP. Is that correct ? If not, who are/is the 'agent' and what is/their purpose.

No, that is not what I said.

Let me give a scenario as an example. I do not know the actual players

Say for this example that SMILE has a HSBC as the Correspondent for international transfers. SMILE would transfer the amount (say 10,000 GBP) to HSBC in the UK using the BACS domestic low value funds transfer network in the UK. SMILE would have chosen HSBC as their partner as HSBC have a wide range of Correspondents in various countries around the world. In this very simple case, HSBC is the Intermediary bank (i.e. called my SMILE the Agent). HSBC sends the SWIFT transfer to us and we process the payment into a Bangkok Bank beneficiary account.

In this case your 35 GBP goes to HSBC for processing the payment.

I hope this explains things. I will post more tomorrow if required. Thanks

[ianguygil]

Looks like the agent was the intermediate bank. You learn something every day, you will have to write this off to experience, now change your bank, dont rush think about where you go.

I appreciate your advice but opening a new bank account in the UK ain't easy. I needed to open a second account in the UK so I thought go with the Co-operative bank, as already have an account there. I thought they'd open one up, no problem. Big mistake. They wanted proof of abode in Thailand, and my passport, no copies. It took so much hassle I nearly knocked it on the head. They already had all my details but insisted on asking for everything they already knew, no exceptions.

'Ianguygil', you recommend, next time, I transfer to the Bangkok Bank, London, first. Do I have to have an account in the London branch ?

Edit:- Last year I transfered 17,000 GBP costing 44 GBP in fees. This year the sum was 8,500 GBP costing 56 GBP. An increase of 50%.

No, you absolutely don't have to have an account with us in the UK.

Please see this link and please PM me if you need more help. I can get our London branch to call you and to walk you through all this.

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok%20Bank/Personal%20Banking/Transfering%20Funds/Transferring%20into%20Thailand/Receiving%20Funds%20from%20UK/Pages/Receiving%20Funds%20from%20UK.aspx

[ianguygil]

I've never heard of an agency or any fee that said agency might charge!

Smile banking you say? Now you know why they're smiling!

I get charged £9.50 by Halifax and between 200 and 500 baht (based on a percentage 200 baht minimum 500 maximum) by Bangkok Bank at the other end.

Could you please tell me if I can send sterling from a Halifax acc. to a Thai bank acc. so that I would get the TT rate this end or do the Halifax exchange into Thai baht before transfer?

Same offer. Details are at this link and you can PM me and I will get somebody in London to walk you through this. You will deal with me only on our official email to protect you. Plenty of other people have done this on this site so you have no need to worry.

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok%20Bank/Personal%20Banking/Transfering%20Funds/Transferring%20into%20Thailand/Receiving%20Funds%20from%20UK/Pages/Receiving%20Funds%20from%20UK.aspx

[monsieurhappy]

I've never heard of an agency or any fee that said agency might charge!

Smile banking you say? Now you know why they're smiling!

I get charged £9.50 by Halifax and between 200 and 500 baht (based on a percentage 200 baht minimum 500 maximum) by Bangkok Bank at the other end.

Could you please tell me if I can send sterling from a Halifax acc. to a Thai bank acc. so that I would get the TT rate this end or do the Halifax exchange into Thai baht before transfer?

Same offer. Details are at this link and you can PM me and I will get somebody in London to walk you through this. You will deal with me only on our official email to protect you. Plenty of other people have done this on this site so you have no need to worry.

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok%20Bank/Personal%20Banking/Transfering%20Funds/Transferring%20into%20Thailand/Receiving%20Funds%20from%20UK/Pages/Receiving%20Funds%20from%20UK.aspx

Thanks ianguygil for your reply and your offer but my query is regarding the SWIFT transfer from the Halifax bank.

I have read a few posters on TV praising the Halifax bank for transfers costing only 9.50 GBP which would make them one of the cheapest ways of transferring money from the UK but no-one will tell me if this is for transfers in sterling or if the Halifax bank exchanges into Thai baht before making the SWIFT transfer.

I have read the BBK bank site and understand that transfers in Thai baht cost 15GBP and transfers in sterling cost 20GBP with the additional cost at the Thai end of 0.25% ( min. 200baht max 500baht ) and would like to know the comparable costs using the Halifax bank.

Anybody care to advise?

[bifftastic]

I've never heard of an agency or any fee that said agency might charge!

Smile banking you say? Now you know why they're smiling!

I get charged £9.50 by Halifax and between 200 and 500 baht (based on a percentage 200 baht minimum 500 maximum) by Bangkok Bank at the other end.

Could you please tell me if I can send sterling from a Halifax acc. to a Thai bank acc. so that I would get the TT rate this end or do the Halifax exchange into Thai baht before transfer?

Yes you can send sterling, when you set up the payee you get the option of choosing the currency. Obviously, they would prefer you to choose Thai baht, so that they can give you their crappy rate (I think they quoted me around 43.something!), instead you choose sterling.

I get the TT rate minus BB's fee (200-500 baht)

[monsieurhappy]

Yes you can send sterling, when you set up the payee you get the option of choosing the currency. Obviously, they would prefer you to choose Thai baht, so that they can give you their crappy rate (I think they quoted me around 43.something!), instead you choose sterling.

I get the TT rate minus BB's fee (200-500 baht)

Thanks.

It was the crappy rate I was worried about.

I watched the Halifax online guide to transferring money where they don't exactly say you can send sterling but neither do they say you cannot.

[Pib]

My bank didn't inform me of the breakdown until after the tranfer. I had to ask for the breakdown. I transfered British Pounds.

Hello Mr ***************

You where charged £21.25 in Smile SWIFT service charges and £35 in agents fees.

For SWIFT transfers, we charge 0.25% of the sterling value (minimum fee £13.00, maximum fee £35.00). Provided the information you give is correct, your transfer will be received within 3-5 working days. However, funds may sometimes be delayed by the banking practices of other countries.

With SWIFT transfers, the correspondent bank could also make a charge. This charge depends on the destination, amount and complexity of the transfer. As a guide, correspondent charges are around £9.00 - £35.00 (these are estimates). There can also be other possible agents fees (ie charges made by the beneficiary bank for receiving the transfer). If further agents fees do get charged back to your account then these can be debited from your account at a later date.

Thanks

Jamie

Wow!!!! What a rip-off. Your sending bank and possibly whatever intermediary bank they are using are getting rich! The only charge occurring on the receiving bank end (i.e., the Thai bank) will be a 0.25% fee (min 200 baht, max 500 baht) and you really won't see that as a separate fee as they deduct that amount before posting the received amount to your account. Let me say it again, Wow!!!...What a rip-off your sending bank is pulling off. And if you had allowed them to convert to baht before sending you would have no doubt got an exchange rate approx 3-4% lower than the TT Buying rate giving by Thai banks. And then the bank said it could take 3-5 working (business) days to reach your account...a SWIFT transfer should reach you account within 12-48 hours. And they mention the comlexity of the transfer as an issue---there's nothing complex about wiring funds...after the bank clerk enter the information into the system and hits transmit, it's pretty much just some electrons being transmitted through financial systems with little human involvement...not much more complicated than sending an email. Wow!!! What a rip off. Time to change banks if you are going to be using them regularly to send money to Thailand.

[finewine]

I have used the Bangkok Bank service, with no problems.

However transferring from Bank of Scotland, via BACS, takes 3 days, during which the baht - pound exchange rate can vary a lot.

I have tried to use the UK Faster Payment service, (2 hours) without success. Despite repeated e-mails to the Bangkok Bank in London, I have yet to receive an answer as to why the money transfers take so long.

Maybe someone can explain. Is the Bangkok Bank not a member?

[Pib]

I have used the Bangkok Bank service, with no problems.

However transferring from Bank of Scotland, via BACS, takes 3 days, during which the baht - pound exchange rate can vary a lot.

I have tried to use the UK Faster Payment service, (2 hours) without success. Despite repeated e-mails to the Bangkok Bank in London, I have yet to receive an answer as to why the money transfers take so long.

Maybe someone can explain. Is the Bangkok Bank not a member?

My guess is Bangkok Bank is not a member. From reading up on the UK Faster Payment System at a couple of web sites the UK Faster Payment Service seems to be pretty much an intra-UK system only. For example, from below Wikipedia link the second paragraph seems to indicate use is primarily limited to the 11 founding UK banks and 1 UK building society, and few financial institutions have joined the service beyond the foundering UK banks/building society. Also, I see the Bangkok Bank of London web site talks about use of the BACS but not the Faster Payment System.

http://en.wikipedia....ayments_Service

[ianguygil]

I have used the Bangkok Bank service, with no problems.

However transferring from Bank of Scotland, via BACS, takes 3 days, during which the baht - pound exchange rate can vary a lot.

I have tried to use the UK Faster Payment service, (2 hours) without success. Despite repeated e-mails to the Bangkok Bank in London, I have yet to receive an answer as to why the money transfers take so long.

Maybe someone can explain. Is the Bangkok Bank not a member?

Please send me a PM and I will get people to contact you from our London Branch. I am very sorry if you have emailed them and they have not responded and I can assure you that will not continue to be the case.

We are definitely connected to both payment networks, but as Pib mentioned CHAPS may be via an intermediary UK bank.Just as CHIPS in the US (ACH) where there is a difference between a Member and a Participant. The same day settlement/realtime network is much more expensive, so for small value payments (from a Bank perspective, not from a normal person perspective) we suggest that customers use BACS. In fact if you look at our website you will see that the settlement instructions for GBP money market and FX (big money) shows "CHAPS SC 70 06 03"

http://www.bangkokbank.com/download/ssi.pdf

We can help to sort this out if you contact me and I'll deal with you via my Bank email address. Thank you.

Ian