U.S. warns it will stop aid to Palestinians if UN statehood recognition bid proceeds

[billd766]

The withholding of US aid probably makes little difference in the situation. It might encourage them to start of approach the problem of statehood in a positive and adult manner.

The Palestinian Arabs should sign a peace treaty for a start.

Well again none of it is the business of the US & using tactics such as these it is

in as much saying to sign a treaty that they have no say in making.

Form the original article...

Israeli authorities have also rejected the Palestinian solution based on the 1967 borders as that measure would leave a large population of Israelis in Judea and Samaria outside Israel's borders.

So why not? It is not like the Palistinians are asking for anything unreasonable.

It is not like they are asking for a return to the UN Partition Plan of 1947. (See attached Map)

Comments are often bandied about citing one group wanting to push the other into the sea.

But the facts tend to suggest otherwise. Motive for problems at hand?

Sticking with the original post...It is not the USA's place to pressure things that do not concern them.

Lead by example not by meddling & making threats that others should vote this way or that.

That would never be tolerated in the USA why does the government think it will be tolerated elsewhere?

Thank you for posting the map as I had not realised the difference in land areas over the years and the population shifts.

[TimTang]

As long as Islam exists there will NEVER be peace with Israel. It is an Islamic duty to rid the world of all Jews.

You only need to read the first chapter (sura) of the Qaran to understand why there is no peace with Israel. If that doesn't convince you read chapter 5 or Mohammed's last revelation chapter 9. Muslim countries are often at war with each other but one thing they all agree on is that Israel MUST be destroyed. That's why every country surrounding Israel supports the Palestinian war with Israel by proxy. At the same time Egypt refuses to grant citizenship to Gazans and Jordan refuses to grant citizenship to West-Bankers.

American money just perpetuates the situation. I just laugh every time there is another attempt at peace talks; More people die with every attempt.

[Jingthing]

As long as Islam exists there will NEVER be peace with Israel. It is an Islamic duty to rid the world of all Jews.

You only need to read the first chapter (sura) of the Qaran to understand why there is no peace with Israel. If that doesn't convince you read chapter 5 or Mohammed's last revelation chapter 9. Muslim countries are often at war with each other but one thing they all agree on is that Israel MUST be destroyed. That's why every country surrounding Israel supports the Palestinian war with Israel by proxy. At the same time Egypt refuses to grant citizenship to Gazans and Jordan refuses to grant citizenship to West-Bankers.

American money just perpetuates the situation. I just laugh every time there is another attempt at peace talks; More people die with every attempt.

No, it is not Islam, it is FUNDAMENTALIST radical Islam. There is no requirement for Muslims to take every text literally and reject modernizing, just the same that there is no requirement that Christians or Jews to do that. For example, fundamentalist Muslims would cut off limbs for theft, but more modern Muslim countries will just impose a jail sentence the same as other civilized countries.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Jingthing

[TimTang]

As long as Islam exists there will NEVER be peace with Israel. It is an Islamic duty to rid the world of all Jews.

You only need to read the first chapter (sura) of the Qaran to understand why there is no peace with Israel. If that doesn't convince you read chapter 5 or Mohammed's last revelation chapter 9. Muslim countries are often at war with each other but one thing they all agree on is that Israel MUST be destroyed. That's why every country surrounding Israel supports the Palestinian war with Israel by proxy. At the same time Egypt refuses to grant citizenship to Gazans and Jordan refuses to grant citizenship to West-Bankers.

American money just perpetuates the situation. I just laugh every time there is another attempt at peace talks; More people die with every attempt.

No, it is not Islam, it is FUNDAMENTALIST radical Islam. There is no requirement for Muslims to take every text literally and reject modernizing, just the same that there is no requirement that Christians or Jews to do that. For example, fundamentalist Muslims would cut off limbs for theft, but more modern Muslim countries will just impose a jail sentence the same as other civilized countries.

Your WRONG! Islam is Islam. There is no FUNDAMENTALIST Islam. You follow the Qaran, Hadiths, Sunna, and Sharia; if not you are Kafir.

[Jingthing]

If I'm wrong, explain to me why not all Islamic states in the world (there are over 50) do not cut off the limbs of thieves.

BTW, Israel already knows she will lost this vote in the UN --

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/un-envoy-prosor-israel-has-no-chance-of-stopping-recognition-of-palestinian-state-1.381062

Edited August 28, 2011 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I'm not convinced. The vast majority of global Muslims are not active terrorists nor do they even support them. Of course any people can change. I'm opposed to terrorists as much as any of you right wingers, but you are promoting unthinking Islamophobia. Muslims are so numerous in the world, war with all Muslims will mean losing. Better to communicate especially with the younger generation of Muslims who show signs of modernization.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Jingthing

[chuckd]

The US Embassy has denied the statement was made as quoted. This is likely much ado about nothing. Now it is 'he said...she said'.

_______________________________________________________

Report: U.S. warns Palestinians it will halt aid

Saeb Erekat is the Chief Palestinian negotiator.

By MACKENZIE WEINGER | 8/26/11 12:34 PM EDT Updated: 8/26/11 1:40 PM EDT

American officials are dismissing a top Palestinian leader’s claims on Friday that the U.S. warned it will take “punitive measures” and cutoff aid if the Palestinians move forward on their statehood bid.

The article goes on to say...

The U.S. Consulate in Jerusalem released a statement in response on Friday, saying that the quotes attributed to Rubinstein were not accurate.

“While we cannot get into private diplomatic discussions, this report is not an accurate portrayal of the U.S position, nor did Consul-General Rubinstein make the comments reported in the media,” the statement said.

The consulate did not offer any additional details on Erekat’s claims.

Read more: http://www.politico....l#ixzz1WI7eyHYQ

Stopping aid is one thing, using it as a threat to try and stop a UN vote is another.

Good to see the US is NOT wanting the latter.

Wallaby:

Do you honestly believe anybody other than politicians and/or militants are getting any large percentage of those millions of dollars being sent to them by the US government? Do you honestly believe the aid is trickling down to the masses for their benefit?

If you do, you are certainly more naive than you appear. How do you think Yasser Arafat became a billionaire 'serving' the Palestinians? Abbas and all the others are awaiting each month for the check to arrive so they can take their cut.

I do believe stopping aid and the treat to do so often go hand in hand. If I am paying for somebody to perform a service, then I expect that service to be performed to my satisfaction...or I stop sending money. If I tell somebody to do something and am paying a fee for that action, then I expect the action to be performed to MY satisfaction and not to the satisfaction of anybody else.

I'm one of those people that believe US citizens on welfare should pass a monthly drug test or their benefits stop. Why am I paying for some junkies habit.

The US has created a welfare state and now seems to be creating a welfare world.

Time to put a stop to it all.

PS: NO, I have no proof that Abbas has his hand in the till so don't waste your time asking for a link. I would bet he has more money in his Swiss bank account than you do, though.

Edited August 28, 2011 by chuckd

[chuckd]

I'm not convinced. The vast majority of global Muslims are not active terrorists nor do they even support them. Of course any people can change. I'm opposed to terrorists as much as any of you right wingers, but you are promoting unthinking Islamophobia. Muslims are so numerous in the world, war with all Muslims will mean losing. Better to communicate especially with the younger generation of Muslims who show signs of modernization.

...and may I add..."nor do they condemn them".

[Ulysses G.]

Thank you for posting the map as I had not realised the difference in land areas over the years and the population shifts.

The map correlates with land lost because of Arab armies attacking Israel. It might be time for the Palestinian Arabs to realize that they are just useful pawns to their Muslim "brothers".

[sbk]

Please do not post links to hate speech websites. Thaivisa does not condone these kinds of websites and would prefer not to have it on our forums as it contravenes forum rules

[a99az]

What could it possibly be that Israel holds over the USA that gets them so much support?

[Scott]

Enough with the off-topic comments. This thread is NOT a general topic about Islam. Re-read the OP and post accordingly.

[Jingthing]

What could it possibly be that Israel holds over the USA that gets them so much support?

It's called being close allies.

[Steely Dan]

Thank you for posting the map as I had not realised the difference in land areas over the years and the population shifts.

The map correlates with land lost because of Arab armies attacking Israel. It might be time for the Palestinian Arabs to realize that they are just useful pawns to their Muslim "brothers".

Actually twice the land area lost by Palestinians was lost by Jews expelled from Arab lands since 1948, but you won't find a map of that.

[flying]

Thank you for posting the map as I had not realised the difference in land areas over the years and the population shifts.

The map correlates with land lost because of Arab armies attacking Israel. It might be time for the Palestinian Arabs to realize that they are just useful pawns to their Muslim "brothers".

Your welcome Bill

As I said in an earlier post I posted it as a side note to the possible "motive" for the continued unrest in the area.

Sometimes a picture is worth a 1000 words.

UG... So basically your are saying to the victor goes the spoils of war?

Yet if the war is over the land taking in the first place then how is that logical or permitted?

If that line of thinking was acceptable to Americans then the USA would now inhabit & control greater Japan as the spoils for defeating Japan after they attacked the USA.

Edited August 28, 2011 by flying

[Steely Dan]

If I'm wrong, explain to me why not all Islamic states in the world (there are over 50) do not cut off the limbs of thieves.

BTW, Israel already knows she will lost this vote in the UN --

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/un-envoy-prosor-israel-has-no-chance-of-stopping-recognition-of-palestinian-state-1.381062

Jing, the litmus test I would apply to so called Islamic states being moderate is whether or not they accept Israel's right to exist as demonstrated by not barring entry to people with Israeli stamps in their passports. Could I ask you to speculate on what might happen should the U.N recognize a Palestinian state, do you think it will lead to bilateral negotiations or more violence?

[Jingthing]

If I'm wrong, explain to me why not all Islamic states in the world (there are over 50) do not cut off the limbs of thieves.

BTW, Israel already knows she will lost this vote in the UN --

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/un-envoy-prosor-israel-has-no-chance-of-stopping-recognition-of-palestinian-state-1.381062

Jing, the litmus test I would apply to so called Islamic states being moderate is whether or not they accept Israel's right to exist as demonstrated by not barring entry to people with Israeli stamps in their passports. Could I ask you to speculate on what might happen should the U.N recognize a Palestinian state, do you think it will lead to bilateral negotiations or more violence?

Honestly, I don't think anyone can predict the outcome. I think a lot of it is about INTERNAL Palestinian politics anyway.

[Scott]

More off-topic posts removed.

[tmd5855]

does the recognition of a Palestinian state by the UN kill, maim or hurt anybody? stopping aid "if" is just more evidence what kind of power the zionist blackmailers in the Greatest Nation on Earth™and its 51st state Eretz Yisrael wield in Washington.

Eh...

Bit confused with comment/viewpoint above...

Could you stop sitting on the fence and beating around the bush............

Just say where your evenhanded and balanced sympathies lie, or what side of the fence are you shouting from ?

Edited August 28, 2011 by tmd5855

[Ulysses G.]

Yet if the war is over the land taking in the first place then how is that logical or permitted?

As there has never been an Arab country called "Palestine" - it was a mostly an uninhabited geographical area - and both the Jews and Arabs in the area are mostly fairly recent immigrants from other countries, I am not sure how that has much bearing on the subject.

Outside of Jerusalem, which has been dominated by Jews for at least 150 years, Israel was mostly desert with very few people living there until Jews and Arabs from other places started arriving in large numbers.

...[a] desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds-a silent mournful expanse....A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action....We never saw a human being on the whole route....There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of the worthless soil, had almost deserted the country.

Mark Twain, The Innocents Abroad. London: 1881 (New American Library, 1997).

Edited August 28, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[TimTang]

"BTW, Israel already knows she will lost this vote in the UN --"

Israel has absolutely no power in the UN anyway so they have no say as to whether they win or lose. US has the power to veto which they probably will because the Palestinians refuse to stop firing rockets into Israel. Both the Hamas and Hezbollah charters state that they will never recognize Israel as a State and they will never stop fighting until Israel is wiped off the map.

[Scott]

One off topic post deleted. Again, this topic is not about Islam. Please re-read the OP if necessary.

[aussiebebe]

Huh? What nonsense.

Israel accepted the UN peace deal in 1948 and has offered to make peace over and over again since then - including trading land for peace and they made good on the bargain. The Palestinian Arabs have always refused.

"If the Arabs lay down their arms there will be no more war, but if Israel lays down its weapons there would be no more Israel."

-Golda Meir

Great post - I wish this forum had a 'Like' button to click on to show approval.

[Steely Dan]

If I'm wrong, explain to me why not all Islamic states in the world (there are over 50) do not cut off the limbs of thieves.

BTW, Israel already knows she will lost this vote in the UN --

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/un-envoy-prosor-israel-has-no-chance-of-stopping-recognition-of-palestinian-state-1.381062

Jing, the litmus test I would apply to so called Islamic states being moderate is whether or not they accept Israel's right to exist as demonstrated by not barring entry to people with Israeli stamps in their passports. Could I ask you to speculate on what might happen should the U.N recognize a Palestinian state, do you think it will lead to bilateral negotiations or more violence?

Honestly, I don't think anyone can predict the outcome. I think a lot of it is about INTERNAL Palestinian politics anyway.

The trouble is Palestinian politics has never been just internal, if it were I think peace would have come long ago. First there were three wars fought between Israel and external armies, after that we had terrorism funded and abetted from external sources, finally we have the invention of a Palestinian identity which was yet again an external concept, the dispossessed Arabs pre 1967 thought of themselves as Arab not Palestinian. Then we have the present day, the last good chance for peace was blown imho when Al-Jazeera broadcast the wikileaks item concerning the Palestinian authority being prepared to accept less than the 1967 borders plus no right of return. The Palestinian authority negotiators claimed the leak had endangered their lives and indeed out of self-preservation their stance has hardened considerably.

If Al-Jazeera (and their paymasters) had desired a bilaterally negotiated settlement they would not have broadcast this news. Everything that followed had an external hand behind it imho. P.S It is no coincidence that 50 Islamic states do not recognize Israel and I think it's delusional to think this is on account of some injustice inflicted on the Palestinians, seeing as they have been killing one another with great gusto for centuries.

[Ulysses G.]

It is no coincidence that 50 Islamic states do not recognize Israel and I think it's delusional to think this is on account of some injustice inflicted on the Palestinians, seeing as they have been killing one another with great gusto for centuries.

If they were not being used by radical Islam the "Palestinians" would have been allowed to return to the countries that they came from, but they were put in squalid refugee camps by the other Arabs instead.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[TimTang]

Probably the easiest way to explain why America is giving the Palestinians an ultimatum is thus:

In 1967, the Arabs once again attacked Israel with the intention of throwing the Jews into the sea only to be defeated in a matter of 6 days. The following year in the Khartoum Conference the neighboring Arab countries set a policy of "no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it" This policy remains in place today.

The PA has rejected the two-state solution time and again and for the last three years and has refused to negotiate. They refuse to accept UN Resolution 242 which entitles Israel to defensible borders and to retain some land. This resolution is the foundation of the Oslo Accords.

The Oslo Accords also required the PA to cease incitement and violence, yet they continue to incite in their mosques, schools and media. Rather than rejecting terrorism they praise it. Rather than educating for peace, they educate for "resistance". Rather than to envisage a two-state solution they remove Israel from their maps and continue to fire rocket (unprovoked) into Israel.

Without resolving these issues and absolutely no cooperation from the Palestinians, it violates all the rules of the UN to grant these people a state. Since the OIC practically controls the UN now it's possible that they could circumvent all common sense and pass this resolution.

I guess we'll all know in a few months. I couldn't care less because either way it will make very little difference to the status-quo in that region.

[Steely Dan]

"BTW, Israel already knows she will lost this vote in the UN --"

Israel has absolutely no power in the UN anyway so they have no say as to whether they win or lose. US has the power to veto which they probably will because the Palestinians refuse to stop firing rockets into Israel. Both the Hamas and Hezbollah charters state that they will never recognize Israel as a State and they will never stop fighting until Israel is wiped off the map.

What's the first sentence of the Hamas charter? Answer: In the name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate You are the best community that has been raised up for mankind.

And so it continues in a similarly theological vein. It doesn't take a genius to see you have considerable difficulties marrying this to a supposedly secular Fatah; they should get on like a house on fire if they have to form a state together.

[Lite Beer]

Posts discussing Moderation have been removed as per The Forum Rules you agreed to when signing up.

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted. Stick to the Palestinian issue.

[Wallaby]

Wallaby:

Do you honestly believe anybody other than politicians and/or militants are getting any large percentage of those millions of dollars being sent to them by the US government? Do you honestly believe the aid is trickling down to the masses for their benefit?

If you do, you are certainly more naive than you appear. How do you think Yasser Arafat became a billionaire 'serving' the Palestinians? Abbas and all the others are awaiting each month for the check to arrive so they can take their cut.

I do believe stopping aid and the treat to do so often go hand in hand. If I am paying for somebody to perform a service, then I expect that service to be performed to my satisfaction...or I stop sending money. If I tell somebody to do something and am paying a fee for that action, then I expect the action to be performed to MY satisfaction and not to the satisfaction of anybody else.

I'm one of those people that believe US citizens on welfare should pass a monthly drug test or their benefits stop. Why am I paying for some junkies habit.

The US has created a welfare state and now seems to be creating a welfare world.

Time to put a stop to it all.

PS: NO, I have no proof that Abbas has his hand in the till so don't waste your time asking for a link. I would bet he has more money in his Swiss bank account than you do, though.

None of this has anything to do with the topic.

I don't care if the US stops aid to anyone, or whether it is deserved or not.

Palestine isn't being asked to perform an action, it is being told not to ask the UN to vote. The US is demanding Palestine refrain from a democratic process otherwise it will stop aid. I don't think Palestine will actually care as money will come from other countries. But for the US to bully Palestine into remaining as they are seems to me that the US is afraid of just how many votes they will get.

Simply, all the US has to do is veto the vote. Why use a threat to deny them putting the question to a vote. That is anti democracy and against what the US holds so dear, isn't it?