Democrats Call For End To Intimidation Of Govt Critics By The Red Shirts

[Moruya]

Perhaps if the editorials made a little more effort to accentuate the fact that the violent element are actually a very small percentage of people who voted PTP, and as such, although the violent law breakers make headline news, their actions are not readily supported and are not representative of the majority of PTP voters.

May be if these editorials made more effort to explain the true detail and balance they may be perceived as being a little more constructive in the reconcliation process

You are correct...

But it is "The Nation". Their objective is not truth, facts, nor balance.

Cheers - Tom

The red-shirt attacks may have been done by non-Pheu-Thai voters for all we know. It's just that the Dem's asked Dep-PM Chalerm to investigate and reign in the violent element within the red-shirts. With so many UDD leaders Pheu Thai MPs and the government being Pheu Thai led that makes sense.

Nowhere does it say that violent actions are either supported or representative for Pheu Thai voters. To ask editors to be more careful and stress some stuff seems like asking for excuses for accusations which are not even made. What makes 473geo even think a minority of Pheu Thai voters could be violent and you agreeing with him ?

Remind me what a special job Chalerm did controlling his own son......:.

[OzMick]

It may or may not be a small element, but they don't seem to understand that if they can't control their small elements when they are being VERY public, then it reflects DIRECTLY onto PTP and the elected Red Leadership. or LACK of leadership.

Leadership implies they are leading and their followers follow, if that is not the case then they have just started a movement and lost control, or don't care to control it properly. THAT is not leadership.

Could it be as simple as "stop paying them !" These thugs hanging around parliament have to have some form of income, sustenance and shelter - if it is coming from the Red movement, PTP, or from "overseas" all they have to do is withdraw support from violent members and let them continue their criminal careers elsewhere.

[473geo]

Violent factions in any areana are by their nature difficult to control.......history is littered with examples......however it is not impossible......there appears to be no voice in politics for the violent element in the south and the violence continues..........so let us give a chance to the new government to effect a solution, they have at least brought the 'red shirts' into the political arena and given them a voice......let us give them the opportunity to use it effectively for the good of the country

The red shirts had a voice in parliament prior to this election. They also had a voice during their protests last year. But because this minority group didn't get their way, they decided to get violent.

Some of the violent groups in the south don't want a voice in the Thai parliament. They would much prefer a voice in the Malaysian parliament.

Violent groups have as much right to representation as peaceful groups. They don't have more right just because they are violent. They get to elect their representation just like everyone else. If they don't get the result they like, it doesn't give them an excuse to be violent. Otherwise there would be an awful lot of violent minority groups.

Thailand today.....making an effort......as I have said, let us see if the violence can be reduced and eventually eliminated.....for the good of Thailand.......let us draw comparrison after a couple of years and judge the government on their performance......success will be self evident

".......let us see if the violence can be reduced and eventually eliminated.........." The tried, tested and found to work method is for the police to arrest them, and the courts to incarcerate them. You might consider that "short-sighted", but it is a view probably shared by those innocent citizens who have the misfortune to be assaulted or injured, and the relatives of those killed. Of course here it is different, because the thugs have friends in government, who have a relative as chief of police, so we all should just get used to it and hope it will stop in a couple of years. Right.

see response #49........

[OzMick]

The red shirts had a voice in parliament prior to this election. They also had a voice during their protests last year. But because this minority group didn't get their way, they decided to get violent.

Some of the violent groups in the south don't want a voice in the Thai parliament. They would much prefer a voice in the Malaysian parliament.

Violent groups have as much right to representation as peaceful groups. They don't have more right just because they are violent. They get to elect their representation just like everyone else. If they don't get the result they like, it doesn't give them an excuse to be violent. Otherwise there would be an awful lot of violent minority groups.

Thailand today.....making an effort......as I have said, let us see if the violence can be reduced and eventually eliminated.....for the good of Thailand.......let us draw comparrison after a couple of years and judge the government on their performance......success will be self evident

".......let us see if the violence can be reduced and eventually eliminated.........." The tried, tested and found to work method is for the police to arrest them, and the courts to incarcerate them. You might consider that "short-sighted", but it is a view probably shared by those innocent citizens who have the misfortune to be assaulted or injured, and the relatives of those killed. Of course here it is different, because the thugs have friends in government, who have a relative as chief of police, so we all should just get used to it and hope it will stop in a couple of years. Right.

see response #49........

#49 "

Let us see if the overall trend of 'violent' acts increase or diminish before we make irrational same day judgements on performance improvement shall we"

Right - don't respond to today's violence, it might go away. I rarely wish violent assault on anybody except those who condone it.

[animatic]

It would seem some quarters believe letting them keep on with their ' intimidation act' would discourage a reciprocal attack on them by the opposition.

I tend to think this would be exactly inverse and pretty much ENSURES that the other side MUST take actions, since those demanding reconciliation seem hell-bent on preventing it and holding onto power any way they can, at the expense of all others.

Edited August 28, 2011 by animatic

[473geo]

".......let us see if the violence can be reduced and eventually eliminated.........." The tried, tested and found to work method is for the police to arrest them, and the courts to incarcerate them. You might consider that "short-sighted", but it is a view probably shared by those innocent citizens who have the misfortune to be assaulted or injured, and the relatives of those killed. Of course here it is different, because the thugs have friends in government, who have a relative as chief of police, so we all should just get used to it and hope it will stop in a couple of years. Right.

see response #49........

#49 "

Let us see if the overall trend of 'violent' acts increase or diminish before we make irrational same day judgements on performance improvement shall we"

Right - don't respond to today's violence, it might go away. I rarely wish violent assault on anybody except those who condone it.

see response #44......

[noahvail]

".......let us see if the violence can be reduced and eventually eliminated.........." The tried, tested and found to work method is for the police to arrest them, and the courts to incarcerate them. You might consider that "short-sighted", but it is a view probably shared by those innocent citizens who have the misfortune to be assaulted or injured, and the relatives of those killed. Of course here it is different, because the thugs have friends in government, who have a relative as chief of police, so we all should just get used to it and hope it will stop in a couple of years. Right.

see response #49........

#49 "

Let us see if the overall trend of 'violent' acts increase or diminish before we make irrational same day judgements on performance improvement shall we"

Right - don't respond to today's violence, it might go away. I rarely wish violent assault on anybody except those who condone it.

see response #44......

Geo, please stop playing this game. If you have something to say, say it. It does not help your credibility in the least.

[OzMick]

".......let us see if the violence can be reduced and eventually eliminated.........." The tried, tested and found to work method is for the police to arrest them, and the courts to incarcerate them. You might consider that "short-sighted", but it is a view probably shared by those innocent citizens who have the misfortune to be assaulted or injured, and the relatives of those killed. Of course here it is different, because the thugs have friends in government, who have a relative as chief of police, so we all should just get used to it and hope it will stop in a couple of years. Right.

see response #49........

#49 "

Let us see if the overall trend of 'violent' acts increase or diminish before we make irrational same day judgements on performance improvement shall we"

Right - don't respond to today's violence, it might go away. I rarely wish violent assault on anybody except those who condone it.

see response #44......

what is this , musical chairs. Your post states that violence should be condemned by the government, bu that arresting the red shirts would be "at best short-sighted."

That is condoning violence. Violence is a here, now, event - you respond to it immediately. No one should be attacked for peacefully and non-intrusively presenting their views, and those doing it should be arrested.

Your delusions that the red shirts are "freedom fighters" is a little hard to sustain when they have won their election, and then try to prevent others from expressing their views.

[473geo]

Perhaps some should learn to follow a 'thread' of interaction, not choose to select pieces of a post that can change the meaning if not supported by the previous or following text.....

Now you have the topic off track because I must explain to everybody that people choose to change the content of posts, and infer meaning that is simply non existant, unless the text is taken out of context.........

Sad really......

Edited August 28, 2011 by 473geo

[TAWP]

Geo, you forgot to reply to:

The small number of idiots among the red shirt movement who evidently can't control themselves are bound to make the headlines. Not the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of others who are either a part of the movement or who sympathize in general terms with its grievances.

Indeed. Which is why it is so easy for the government to tell these fringe-elements to step back and respect the rest of the population, no?

Would that comment be based on the success in the south of previous governments?........is it really that easy?

You are confused if you think [any] previous government had the southern insurgents as part of their overall electorial organisation. Unlike the Red Shirts, that clearly is part of the PT machine. Or are you pretending this isn't the case?

[473geo]

Not at all TAWP

But I prefer to see activists in the political arena not highlighting their cause through violence, my point being with the 'red shirts' 'included' in the political structure there is a chance to influence the small group that follow the violent path. In the south there is no such 'inclusion' to my knowledge so the task is very difficult and the violence continues

[OzMick]

Perhaps some should learn to follow a 'thread' of interaction, not choose to select pieces of a post that can change the meaning if not supported by the previous or following text.....

Now you have the topic off track because I must explain to everybody that people choose to change the content of posts, and infer meaning that is simply non existant, unless the text is taken out of context.........

Sad really......

(_*_)

[GeorgeO]

The small number of idiots among the red shirt movement who evidently can't control themselves are bound to make the headlines. Not the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of others who are either a part of the movement or who sympathize in general terms with its grievances.

The violent elements have been with this "movement" for over 4 years now.

When exactly can the "millions" gain control over them?

Instead of condemning them and disassociating from them and barring them, we get the Red Shirt "movement" going to great lengths to assist them, eg. lawyers, bail, verbal defense, etc.

.

Funny how your earlier posts made great capital in umpteen threads out of criticizing the fact that no reds would help bail out those in jail (look at how morally bankrupt they are - they don't even help their own kind out - etc etc ad nauseam), and now when they do you criticize them for assisting armed thugs.

Maybe you should have been praising the reds when they weren't offering to bail out those in jail, for keeping thugs off the streets.

Blind prejudice is winding your posts up in knots here, old chap.

Whereas you, hanuman, are clearly an impartial observer....(?)

[hanuman1]

The small number of idiots among the red shirt movement who evidently can't control themselves are bound to make the headlines. Not the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of others who are either a part of the movement or who sympathize in general terms with its grievances.

The violent elements have been with this "movement" for over 4 years now.

When exactly can the "millions" gain control over them?

Instead of condemning them and disassociating from them and barring them, we get the Red Shirt "movement" going to great lengths to assist them, eg. lawyers, bail, verbal defense, etc.

.

Funny how your earlier posts made great capital in umpteen threads out of criticizing the fact that no reds would help bail out those in jail (look at how morally bankrupt they are - they don't even help their own kind out - etc etc ad nauseam), and now when they do you criticize them for assisting armed thugs.

Maybe you should have been praising the reds when they weren't offering to bail out those in jail, for keeping thugs off the streets.

Blind prejudice is winding your posts up in knots here, old chap.

Whereas you, hanuman, are clearly an impartial observer....(?)

Through the jaundiced eyes of the terminally prejudiced, it is indeed impossible for anyone who weighs in on the subject to be 'impartial'. It's the old 'either you're with us or against us' sillyness.

To others less blinkered by their beliefs, the question as to whether a person can be impartial in any given matter is a more interesting one. Clearly there are degrees to which a person can try to be impartial. Among these is the ability to accept alternative explanations of events, remain open minded in situations where information is scarce, and consider opinions - both given and taken - in terms of the likelihood of them being truths, instead of being offered as absolutes. IMHO.

[hammered]

Between the previous and latest election we now see the red shirts have more involvement in parliament via their leaders and even a few positions of responsibility. With that comes more of a stake in the system so we should over time see the parts of the movement that want to move in this direction become more involved in electoral politics and less in street politics assuming too that they arent forced out by their opponents too which would mean all back to the street.

Obviously there are elements of the red shirts which are going to remain extra-parliamentary in nature but as time moves on there will likely be a split there. Right now we are seeing things develop and there is no conclusion. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out and the reds are going to be an important player in future Thai politics whether people want them or not. As all this happens there should be a gradual decline in the intimidatory stuff although it wont be sudden and it has to be remembered that a lot of the red shirts see themsleves as having been intimidated and attacked by the state so it will also depend on this dynamic changing too

[lannarebirth]

The violent elements have been with this "movement" for over 4 years now.

When exactly can the "millions" gain control over them?

Instead of condemning them and disassociating from them and barring them, we get the Red Shirt "movement" going to great lengths to assist them, eg. lawyers, bail, verbal defense, etc.

.

- irrelevant overly-personal portion of reply omitted -

So, no expectation for any change that differs from their 4 years of repeated violence and that none of those in leadership will change their tactics.

Thanks for the clarification.

.

IMO the red shirts have made more of an effort to control the violence from the militant parts of their organization than the PAD has done. And you already know that the Red Shirts are not one organization and never have been one organization. There have always been peaceful factions and radical factions. Some come from the poor north/northeast, others come from the middle class, wealthy, and educated.

As far as timelines go, it was exactly 3 years ago that Thailand was dealing with the violence of the yellow shirts and their **occupation** of the government house. Ah, but wait, since they were the "good guys", they were of course peacefully occupying the government building, were not armed at all, and never instigated any violence even when egged on by their main leaders...

In fact, 3 years ago the then opposition leader, Abhisit, 30 senators, and a general visited the PAD protesters in the Government house, at the time that the police had court orders to disperse the protesters, and were well on their way to doing so without violence, and after the visit the PAD burst out of the government house attacking the police and continued a violent occupation, which eventually led to Oct 7 and black Tuesday, the dissolution of the PPP and - lo and behold - Abhisit becoming PM...

I'm not sure if you're aware or not. Perhaps you've just woken up from a multiyear sleep, but there is no PAD or Yellow Shirt any longer. Not for a long time now.

Also, because people like to reconstruct history. the PAD never committed violence on any day of their demonstrations, that could match the violence the Red Shirts committed on every day of their demonstrations.

Edited August 29, 2011 by lannarebirth

[whybother]

Red Shirts Scheduled to Rally at Channel 7 at 1 P.M.

Red shirt supporters from Petchaburi Province are scheduled to rally at television Channel 7 today at 1 P.M. They intend to pressure network executives to fire a reporter who was allegedly threatened by a red-shirt member via email. According to reports, the owner of the email apologized, expecting the reporter to drop criminal charges filed at the Dusit Police Station. However, the female reporter refused to drop the charges, saying she will leave the issue in the hands of police.

-- Tan Network 2011-08-30

So, they threaten her by email. Then they protest to get her sacked.

Yay for Red Democracy.

[Crushdepth]

The violent elements have been with this "movement" for over 4 years now.

When exactly can the "millions" gain control over them?

Instead of condemning them and disassociating from them and barring them, we get the Red Shirt "movement" going to great lengths to assist them, eg. lawyers, bail, verbal defense, etc.

.

- irrelevant overly-personal portion of reply omitted -

So, no expectation for any change that differs from their 4 years of repeated violence and that none of those in leadership will change their tactics.

Thanks for the clarification.

.

IMO the red shirts have made more of an effort to control the violence from the militant parts of their organization than the PAD has done. And you already know that the Red Shirts are not one organization and never have been one organization. There have always been peaceful factions and radical factions. Some come from the poor north/northeast, others come from the middle class, wealthy, and educated.

As far as timelines go, it was exactly 3 years ago that Thailand was dealing with the violence of the yellow shirts and their **occupation** of the government house. Ah, but wait, since they were the "good guys", they were of course peacefully occupying the government building, were not armed at all, and never instigated any violence even when egged on by their main leaders...

In fact, 3 years ago the then opposition leader, Abhisit, 30 senators, and a general visited the PAD protesters in the Government house, at the time that the police had court orders to disperse the protesters, and were well on their way to doing so without violence, and after the visit the PAD burst out of the government house attacking the police and continued a violent occupation, which eventually led to Oct 7 and black Tuesday, the dissolution of the PPP and - lo and behold - Abhisit becoming PM...

Hey - let's not misrepresent the facts here. PPP was dissolved for ELECTORAL FRAUD. Yes, it changed the balance of power in favour of the coalition but that's how the parliamentary system works. If you are not satisfied with that outcome, you should direct your anger against the PPP members who broke the law and thereby destroyed their party. They let their supporters down.

Why complain that people who broke the law got punished? If you can call a five year ban from politics "punishment". It's a pathetically light penalty for trying to subvert the democratic process and put a country of 60 million people under your thrall.

[hammered]

Hey - let's not misrepresent the facts here. PPP was dissolved for ELECTORAL FRAUD. Yes, it changed the balance of power in favour of the coalition but that's how the parliamentary system works. If you are not satisfied with that outcome, you should direct your anger against the PPP members who broke the law and thereby destroyed their party. They let their supporters down.

Why complain that people who broke the law got punished? If you can call a five year ban from politics "punishment". It's a pathetically light penalty for trying to subvert the democratic process and put a country of 60 million people under your thrall.

The people have now judged the coalition that came together via legal parliamentary but mandateless methods after PPP was disbanded, and we effectively have the PPP back but with more MPs. That is the final judgement

[Buchholz]

Red Shirts Scheduled to Rally at Channel 7 at 1 P.M.

Red shirt supporters from Petchaburi Province are scheduled to rally at television Channel 7 today at 1 P.M. They intend to pressure network executives to fire a reporter who was allegedly threatened by a red-shirt member via email. According to reports, the owner of the email apologized, expecting the reporter to drop criminal charges filed at the Dusit Police Station. However, the female reporter refused to drop the charges, saying she will leave the issue in the hands of police.

-- Tan Network 2011-08-30

So, they threaten her by email. Then they protest to get her sacked.

Yay for Red Democracy.

I've heard of empty apologies before, but usually there's a bit of lag time (certainly more than a single day) before it becomes evident that the apology was hollow...

A Channel 7 reporter who became the victim of a hate campaign by the red shirts said yesterday that she would not withdraw her police complaint despite an apology from a woman claiming to have started the chain e-mail drive.

[Crushdepth]

Hey - let's not misrepresent the facts here. PPP was dissolved for ELECTORAL FRAUD. Yes, it changed the balance of power in favour of the coalition but that's how the parliamentary system works. If you are not satisfied with that outcome, you should direct your anger against the PPP members who broke the law and thereby destroyed their party. They let their supporters down.

Why complain that people who broke the law got punished? If you can call a five year ban from politics "punishment". It's a pathetically light penalty for trying to subvert the democratic process and put a country of 60 million people under your thrall.

The people have now judged the coalition that came together via legal parliamentary but mandateless methods after PPP was disbanded, and we effectively have the PPP back but with more MPs. That is the final judgement

My point was that some people try to misrepresent the way the coalition's majority was gained and imply that it was illegitimate, which it was not. There a chance that the Australian government will collapse shortly if corruption allegations against *one* MP stick and torch their one seat majority, but you won't see the public howling hysterically about 'illegitimate usurpers' if that puts the opposition into power like you do here!

I don't agree with the use of the term "the people". There is no unified political view of "the people" as you are doubtless aware. It is more realistic to say that PTP has a majority. You can even call it a 'large majority' if you want to include their coalition partners and I won't argue, but "the people" implies that the government has a "mandate" to do as it pleases on any issue, which is the kind of thing that politicians would like us to believe, but isn't really true.

[whybother]

Thai Broadcast Journalists Association Demands Govt to Stop Red-shirt Harassment

The Thai Broadcast Journalists Association chairman has urged the government to stop the red-shirt group from threatening the mass media.

Thai Broadcast Journalists Association Chairman Wisut Kongwatcharapong said that the press has been harrassed by red-shirt supporters through e-mail threats, break-ins at television stations, and pressuring station owners to resign.

Wisut condemned the red-shirts for violating the mass media's fundamental rights.

However, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, along with Deputy PM Chalerm Yoobamrung, have guaranteed that mass media threats will not be tolerated.

Wisut said the association will give Chalerm a chance to prove himself by showing whether he can put an end to the aggressive acts against the mass media.

Wisut stressed that the mass media has its duty to report truths, and, subsequently.

some reports will be unsatisfactory to some groups.

Regarding the cancellation of any television program, he said the decisions must be reasonable, and the government must clarify its reasons to the public.

-- Tan Network 2011-08-30

"harrassed by red-shirt supporters through e-mail threats, break-ins at television stations, and pressuring station owners to resign."

Yay for Red Democracy.

[hammered]

Hey - let's not misrepresent the facts here. PPP was dissolved for ELECTORAL FRAUD. Yes, it changed the balance of power in favour of the coalition but that's how the parliamentary system works. If you are not satisfied with that outcome, you should direct your anger against the PPP members who broke the law and thereby destroyed their party. They let their supporters down.

Why complain that people who broke the law got punished? If you can call a five year ban from politics "punishment". It's a pathetically light penalty for trying to subvert the democratic process and put a country of 60 million people under your thrall.

The people have now judged the coalition that came together via legal parliamentary but mandateless methods after PPP was disbanded, and we effectively have the PPP back but with more MPs. That is the final judgement

My point was that some people try to misrepresent the way the coalition's majority was gained and imply that it was illegitimate, which it was not. There a chance that the Australian government will collapse shortly if corruption allegations against *one* MP stick and torch their one seat majority, but you won't see the public howling hysterically about 'illegitimate usurpers' if that puts the opposition into power like you do here!

I don't agree with the use of the term "the people". There is no unified political view of "the people" as you are doubtless aware. It is more realistic to say that PTP has a majority. You can even call it a 'large majority' if you want to include their coalition partners and I won't argue, but "the people" implies that the government has a "mandate" to do as it pleases on any issue, which is the kind of thing that politicians would like us to believe, but isn't really true.

Saying the people have spoken is just use of common parlance by me.

Of course the Dems legally had the right to form the government but it lacked any form of mandate and they really would have been better off going for an election even if they would have lost. They just too many times have done things that are openly known to be siding with shadowy elites and power groups and that just hurts them again and again when it comes to elections.

[hammered]

It is a bit of a classic when those that oversaw the closing of every bot of anti-government media there was and oversaw the freedom of the media in Thailand now call for the government to reign in something that isnt even on the same scale or even near it.

Of course truth is the red, yellow and mainstream media should all be allowed to go about their business unhindered. However, you arent in a good place to say you are standing up for freedom of the media when you spent a couple of years trying to eradicate critical elements of it. The PTP and reds seem to have copied what the Dems and their allies did. Lets hope it ends and soon though

[whybother]

It is a bit of a classic when those that oversaw the closing of every bot of anti-government media there was and oversaw the freedom of the media in Thailand now call for the government to reign in something that isnt even on the same scale or even near it.

Of course truth is the red, yellow and mainstream media should all be allowed to go about their business unhindered. However, you arent in a good place to say you are standing up for freedom of the media when you spent a couple of years trying to eradicate critical elements of it. The PTP and reds seem to have copied what the Dems and their allies did. Lets hope it ends and soon though

It's amazing how well Thaksin got his message out when "every bot of anti-government media there was" was closed.

You've still been reading too much RA, hammered.

[KKvampire]

UDD/PTP Violence, intimidation is in the DNA

[rubl]

It is a bit of a classic when those that oversaw the closing of every bot of anti-government media there was and oversaw the freedom of the media in Thailand now call for the government to reign in something that isnt even on the same scale or even near it.

Of course truth is the red, yellow and mainstream media should all be allowed to go about their business unhindered. However, you arent in a good place to say you are standing up for freedom of the media when you spent a couple of years trying to eradicate critical elements of it. The PTP and reds seem to have copied what the Dems and their allies did. Lets hope it ends and soon though

It's not just the Dem's calling for the government to reign in intimidation.

Mind you lots of sides and stations closed before would be closed or charge with hate-spreading in Europe from what I've seen and heard. You're right in that all should allowed to go about their business, but at least a certain level of self-restraint should be observed and the government or a watchbody setup should watch proceedings. I mean to say stick to the truth, embellish if you have to, but try to avoid unfounded rumours and lies. So no 'Abhisit killer, or Thaksin killer'.

Being critical of the government is no problem in it self, only when you start with inserting 'illegal', 'killers', etc., etc. PTV would not be allowed in Europe.

The 'copied like others did' doesn't seem to encompass reconciliation. Maybe that didn't make it as a policy, or got dropped down the list?

Edited August 30, 2011 by rubl

[hammered]

It is a bit of a classic when those that oversaw the closing of every bot of anti-government media there was and oversaw the freedom of the media in Thailand now call for the government to reign in something that isnt even on the same scale or even near it.

Of course truth is the red, yellow and mainstream media should all be allowed to go about their business unhindered. However, you arent in a good place to say you are standing up for freedom of the media when you spent a couple of years trying to eradicate critical elements of it. The PTP and reds seem to have copied what the Dems and their allies did. Lets hope it ends and soon though

It's not just the Dem's calling for the government to reign in intimidation.

Mind you lots of sides and stations closed before would be closed or charge with hate-spreading in Europe from what I've seen and heard. You're right in that all should allowed to go about their business, but at least a certain level of self-restraint should be observed and the government or a watchbody setup should watch proceedings. I mean to say stick to the truth, embellish if you have to, but try to avoid unfounded rumours and lies. So no 'Abhisit killer, or Thaksin killer'.

Being critical of the government is no problem in it self, only when you start with inserting 'illegal', 'killers', etc., etc. PTV would not be allowed in Europe.

The 'copied like others did' doesn't seem to encompass reconciliation. Maybe that didn't make it as a policy, or got dropped down the list?

Reconciliation whoever says they want to bring it is talking about reconciliation on their terms. For the Dems it is lets all be mates but not include Thaksin. For the PTP its lets forget all the crimes by everyone and bring back the main man and all be mates. For some of the reds it is lets jail Abhisit and Suthep and not have any amnesty as we didnt do anything wrong and all be mates. And that difference between some reds and PTP is going to make it difficult. For the army its lets not have any charges against us and no repealing the coup amnesty thing and we dont want Thaksin back in political power and lets all be mates. For the extreme yellow it is something else and lets all be mates (maybe)

And those not in power think that unless those in power suddenly accept their version of reconciliation it isnt reconciliation. And of course there is no trust. Reality is reconciliation is going to have to involve everyone agreeing to resolve political differences through democracy and respect outcomes and it going to involve lots of people who have committed "crimes" not being punished. Reality is everyone is going to have to accept they wont get everything and they wont like some things that have to happen. The alternative is chaos followed by outright victory of the side that musters the numbers and there is little doubt which side that is, which means they also will get more of what they want than others. realpolitik. In the meantime I notice the security boss wont be changed and the military reshuffle has been sorted.

[whybother]

20 reds rally at Channel 7

By The Nation

Some 20 red shirts on Tuesday held a rally at Channel 7 station protesting the work of a reporter and demanding charges be dropped for a red shirt from Phetchaburi involving in press intimidation.

The rally, led by Nopporn Namchiangtai, displayed a number banners critical of the television reporter for posing tough questions to Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra.

After a peaceful rally for about 20 minutes, Nopporn presented an open letter demanding the station management to drop a police complaint filed against the fellow red shirt linked to the chain e-mailing to intimidate the reporter. The crowds voluntarily dispersed.

-- The Nation 2011-08-30

This is a good one.

Red shirts intimidating the press to get them to drop the charges for a red shirt intimidating the press.

oops ... forgot: Yay for Red Democracy.

Edited August 30, 2011 by whybother

[Crushdepth]

The rally, led by Nopporn Namchiangtai, displayed a number banners critical of the television reporter for posing tough questions to Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra.

What a crime :-)