German Man Still In ICU After Dispute With Phuket Tuk-Tuk Driver

[pete66]

Go back in the thread. I'm sure a logician as total as you can manage that. Report back when you find it.

I can only find this:

"When they arrived, the driver charged them 200 baht, but Mr Trotnow insisted paying only 100 baht," said Capt Teerasuk

Which is a bloke who hasn't pre aranged the price, being charged the fully allowed amount by the new rules, but deciding he only wants to pay half that amount. Where does it say anything about 200 being agreed before hand?

Keep looking dude. Its in the thread ..... come on, you can do it.

Can't be bothered. unless you want to point it out, I will just assume that I'm right.

Seems the post was removed, because it mentioned a rival website. Could a mod confirm that?

[TechnikaIII]

Oh ok, now its not just pushing him, its assaulting him.

Again, who's word? Who produced this evidence? Local Tuk-tuk drivers? Local rent-a-thug? ha fuc_king ha.

CCTV??????????

Pushing the driver, whether to ground or not, is an assault in all of our high and mighty farang lands. If you did that in New York, the cab driver could press charges, the police will book you, and when the judge has done the criminal bit, you can be sued by the driver. When push comes to shove, it's an assault.

[Logician]

And perhaps you should read some of the dozens if not hundreds of stories about how Patong tuk-tuks operate under their own code.

I've read them all. The ones that didn't bore me to sleep that is. Answer my question. Why is it I know when I get in a tuk tuk, I have the ability to negotiate a price, get home, pay the price, without ever getting in to a fight? Why is it I can do that but once every six months someone doesn't manage it? What could it possibly be that causes one in tens of thousands of tuk tuk users to get a beating. Couldn't possibly be the behaviour of the tuk tuk user in question could it. No of course not, no logic in that idea what so ever.

[Logician]

Seems the post was removed, because it mentioned a rival website. Could a mod confirm that?

So like I said. It never mentioned a pre arranged pice in the OP.

[pete66]

Seems the post was removed, because it mentioned a rival website. Could a mod confirm that?

So like I said. It never mentioned a pre arranged pice in the OP.

What's a "pice"? What's a "pre-arrange pice"? Talk sense, please.

[pete66]

Oh ok, now its not just pushing him, its assaulting him.

Again, who's word? Who produced this evidence? Local Tuk-tuk drivers? Local rent-a-thug? ha fuc_king ha.

CCTV??????????

Pushing the driver, whether to ground or not, is an assault in all of our high and mighty farang lands. If you did that in New York, the cab driver could press charges, the police will book you, and when the judge has done the criminal bit, you can be sued by the driver. When push comes to shove, it's an assault.

Absolutely, press charges. And what would you get? Presuming you could prove it happened? Probably not a near beating to death .....

Again, WHO SAID THIS ASSAULT HAPPENED????

How many times can you ask the same question and still get no reply?

THE fuc_kING TUK-TUK DRIVER HAS RUN OFF. If it was farang land, the taxi driver would be complaining right???

[Logician]

Seems the post was removed, because it mentioned a rival website. Could a mod confirm that?

So like I said. It never mentioned a pre arranged pice in the OP.

What's a "pice"? What's a "pre-arrange pice"? Talk sense, please.

Pointing out an obvious typo, twice!! One way of doing it I suppose. Just having the balls to admit you were wrong is another of course.

[pete66]

the post was there. it was there for an hour or so. it described a statement from the wife. why TV removed it I don't know. they can answer that.

no problems dude, you believe what you want, if you can't read a Thai newspaper, that's fine ....

[Logician]

the post was there. it was there for an hour or so. it described a statement from the wife. why TV removed it I don't know. they can answer that.

no problems dude, you believe what you want, if you can't read a Thai newspaper, that's fine ....

Wow you're a sore loser. Pointing out my typos and now critisising my inability to read Thai. If you can't see what a plonker that post makes you then....... well it's probably just as well you can't.

[pete66]

the post was there. it was there for an hour or so. it described a statement from the wife. why TV removed it I don't know. they can answer that.

no problems dude, you believe what you want, if you can't read a Thai newspaper, that's fine ....

Wow you're a sore loser. Pointing out my typos and now critisising my inability to read Thai. If you can't see what a plonker that post makes you then....... well it's probably just as well you can't.

So you admit you can't read Thai... nah, only joking. My point was that the updated story came from a Thai newspaper.

Its ok - keep up with your fantasy that the German guy caused all this, its what the Phuket police would have you believe.

[Logician]

So you admit you can't read Thai... nah, only joking. My point was that the updated story came from a Thai newspaper.

Its ok - keep up with your fantasy that the German guy caused all this, its what the Phuket police would have you believe.

You keep harping on about evidence, yet you seem just as quick to make your mind up as I am. A drunk farang is nearly always at the centre of these stories. I've seen their behaviour first hand more times than I care to remember. Added to that I don't have an irrational, frothing at the mouth hatred for them as every body else does, and the fact that this Thailand and everyone should be on their best behaviour in other peoples country, I will lean toward blaming the German. Baring in mind at no time have I condoned him being beaten.

[shadiadi]

They should force all Tuk tuks in Phuket to have meters or a printed price list. I lived there for a few years 90% of them are thieving scumbags.

[FritsSikkink]

Not to mention soon after meeting her brother, there is suddenly a gang to hand. A call placed perhaps?

Yet again, looks like a case of choose your Thai "relatives" very carefully.

You are blaming people with no evidence at all.

[sfbandung]

After reading 7 pages of thread I can't believe the endless repeats of the following:

Comparisons of Thailand to Germany, UK, US. Utterly ridiculous. You can't compare them on any level. Compare to another impoverished Asian country, if you must.

People taking the story at face value when lots of it makes no sense. Who hit who? The drunk missus. The copper who seems to know the whole story but maintains there were no (coherent) witnesses. Except him it seems.

The usual plethora of Thai bashing that is unrelated to this post. There is clearly a very big problem with Tuk Tuks in Phuket. There seems to be a regular crew hanging around however. who wheel out the same "Thailand is crap" comments. I've tried to get on top of the moderating rules. But early on is a post by (why bother naming them) some fool who suggests if we stay away from Thailand they will have to "eat their young". I mean really.

It seems it was an argument amount a relatively (to a westerner) small amount of money. I've lived in a third world country for nearly twenty years. Arguing with a local about small money until it gets really aggro is crazy. Just pay and don't do it again. Complain yes, and this forum is a good place to discuss it. But winding up with life threatening injuries over a couple of bucks is senseless.

Don't come the "principle" of the matter or right and wrong. Take care of yourself. This is a poor country where (like virtually all poor countries) the rule of law does not necessarily apply.

Edited August 29, 2011 by sfbandung

[aka_jack]

Flip side to most of these comments is who is the one in the right ?? i have never seen a sign in a tuk tuk saying 200baht maximum fare in patong ! and if they where all hurded together in a hall and shown how to be polite these problems would rarely arise ie: why should it be on the shoulders of the customer to ask the price if there is no signs with fare amounts,you get in tell him where you want to go he turns around and says 100baht or 150 baht etc. agree or haggle !! not you get in he says nothing and trys to extort you at the other end that just goes to show they are all crooks ! so now it is a haggle at the other end if he doesnt like it tuff shit he should of opened his mouth at the begining and been straight ! its just a shame the german just didnt boot him out and take his tuk tuk for a spin for the driver being such a crook !!

[ozvenison]

200 baht equals approximately 4 and a half Euros. A German paying anything less than ten euros for such a trip in Germany would be lucky indeed. While this is not Germany, the foreigners come here expecting everything for cheap and to push people around, just like that German just pushed the tuk-tuk driver to the ground because there was an argument. We don't have the whole story, because as was noted, the German couple were drunk, it is possible they are putting themselves in a much better light than they have behaved, and the Tuk-tuk driver cannot be located because 200 baht is not an incredibly high price to pay for a taxi ride in the rain in the middle of the night.

problem with the tuk-tuk drivers is that 200 baht is the 'maximum' price they can charge.... but they charge that for EVERY trip! 100, 200 or 1,000 metres...

[Beetlejuice]

This guy had a Thai wife so he knows the deal with Tuk Tuk's. You negotiate the fair before you hop in not after. While I don't condone the Tuk Tuk drivers actions,I don't agree with what the German did either. Honestly when something like this happens it's usually provocked by the actions of the passenger. Most of these Tuk Tuk drivers are probably using Meth there's no logic to them be smart about things, I don't care how much of a tough guy you think you are when thais attack you, you can't possibly repel 10 guys at once geez. Ask how much the fare is, don't like it walk ask someone else and say thank you. Crazy stuff, i bet he's regretting his own actions sitting there in hospital.

Common sense at last.

In Thailand I always negotiate the fare before I jump into a taxi.

If I consider the fare too expensive then I smile, say goodbye and try another taxi until I am satisfied the fare is correct.

No one loses face, no arguments, no surprises and everyone's happy all round.

This is the way things are done in Thailand, always has been as far back as I can remember.

[robkey69]

No sympathy for the bloke in hospital at all. Play with fire....

Having a Thai wife and knowing what goes on in Phuket he probably should have paid it, but you have to feel for the guy. It's outta line to make crass comment like the one above...

It's been 20 years since I first started going to Thailand and I must admit it's getting to be a rough place now....Thai's are mob oriented....get them one on one and they are nothing...

I hope the guy can recover...but it sounds like he has some severe injuries.

[captspectre]

I'm sure Mrs. Trotnow's brother can reveil the motorbike taxi driver and maybe even the gang of assaultants - - NOT

Risking your life for THB 100 is meaningless. Downing the driver was not very smart...

Stay away from the Patong rat hole.

Only a fool would get so drunk he didn't know his surroundings! the tuk tuk drivers look for such persons. AND you should not lay a hand on them, just walk away and better yet stay away from the shit hole! some falongs will never learn, Thailand is a dangerous place if you are unaware of your surroundings!

[pomchop]

So a nice comfortable Air conditioned taxi in Bangkok would cost no more than 50 baht at the absolute maximum but to go 800 meters in a junky little open air tuk tuk in Phuket it is 200 baht.

How do they spell GOUGE in Phuket?

Maybe all flights landing in Phuket should distribute a phamplet warning tourists about tuk tuk and jet ski mafias or show them a video of farangs getting beaten up? Get your vacation in beautiful phuket off to a great start.

Obviously NEVER argue with a tuk tuk driver and NEVER get in a phuket tuk tuk without agreeing to an exhorbitant fare and do not ever ever even consider renting a jet ski.

Yet another black eye for Phuket which is rapidly becoming the rip off capital of Thailand.

[thaimat]

This follows hard on the heels of the new "Miracle Thailand " campaign NOT !!

The "Miracle" will be that he and his wife had a run in with Phuket tuk-tuk drivers and survived. Let us hope that he does. "Miracle Thailand" indeed!

[sting0001]

For what is worth :

a) we are not in europe or in germany or in the US of A, so prices there have little interest here.

even if I am a foreigner, I still live , work and be pay here. so prices here in local currency do have meaning.

c) pushing people is stupid, moronic even; and quite agressive, here or there.

d) the problem (at least for me) is not the beating the guy got (in my opinion said beating was deserved as he did start physical violence); what do revulse me is the cowardise to have many anonymous people who dare to kick a guy that is already down. It is NOT NEW, IT IS INGRAINED INTO THAI CULTURE (we saw that so many times during the political events of the last 5 years, so it is not a racist behavior, simply a cultural behavior as it is done to both thai and foreigners).

e) another problem is the anonymity that result; police are scare (policemen are only men, so yes they might be scare for them, their familly or even their careers).

f) last but not the least, as usual nothing will happend , but he usual patsy (?spelling?); while the real problems are never ever solutioned (Tuk tuk want to make money, but it became more and more difficult, so they became more dying for money).

To the moderator, the 8 words I wrote in hight case are not to be taken as 'insult against thai people in general', but they are my feeling (and as such biased) resulting of 11 years of living and working in Thailand. While western europeans we will fight 1 on 1 , thai prefer a gang bang. That is fine when the opposite side know it (that is the reason why I alwaysrun when it became physical), but turn quickly on a massacer if said opposite side is drunk and not aware of what will come (anothe reason why I never drink alcohol). If the moderator feel I shall put those 8 wrods in normal caps, feel free to do so, or PM me to do it myself (I mean, do not ban me for that , as the intention is not to be deregatory, but to ouline strongly a reality and create awarness about it).

[Garry]

Did he negotiate the fair in advance or just jump in assuming what he would pay?

[jackh]

Unbelievable people continue to visit Phuket. Travelers too stupid to do any "discovery" before traveling anyplace have little excuse for finding bad trouble at the destination. That said, Phuket is a dump, has been a dump for several years now. Plain and simple....... STAY AWAY FROM PHUKET! I now have my customers here in China sign a release if they insist on booking into Phuket. They are 100% responsible for any and all occurances during the duration of their time there. More often than not, they decide to change their plans and travel to another place.

[petedk]

Secondly there is no surcharge for night or for rain.

Maybe there is no surcharge for night or rain but even in Bangkok many taxi drivers try it on when it rains, quoting 300 baht for a normal 60 baht ride.

Some motorcycles on Asoke insist on doubling fees after 4 pm (previously 6 pm).

[clip]

200 baht equals approximately 4 and a half Euros. A German paying anything less than ten euros for such a trip in Germany would be lucky indeed. While this is not Germany, the foreigners come here expecting everything for cheap and to push people around, just like that German just pushed the tuk-tuk driver to the ground because there was an argument. We don't have the whole story, because as was noted, the German couple were drunk, it is possible they are putting themselves in a much better light than they have behaved, and the Tuk-tuk driver cannot be located because 200 baht is not an incredibly high price to pay for a taxi ride in the rain in the middle of the night.

well said , why on earth would he risk getting killed for 100 baht

[Roachiebkk]

The root cause is alcohol, the universal catalyst for trouble.

With decision making and judgement impaired,

the smallest thing (100b) can escalate an issue to the point where you put yourself in needless harm's way .

If he was sober, situational awareness and judgement would most likely inhibited him from physically pushing a stranger to the ground over a few baht.

Arrogance, cheapness, drunkeness, ignorance of foreign culture, any combination can get you into trouble anywhere, not just in Thailand.

An unfortunate event, hoping for a full recovery.

Good, unbias post.

I can't believe you guys are hanging it on the German simply because he was drunk. What are you a bunch of social engineers? The Thai tuk tuk driver and his mad weapon wielding gang hold the majority of the responsibility for this incident surely. Sound like a bunch of bloody *****. Root cause is the tuk tuk mafia clear and clean.

Edited August 30, 2011 by LivinginKata
Remark removed

[Roachiebkk]

Seems the post was removed, because it mentioned a rival website. Could a mod confirm that?

So like I said. It never mentioned a pre arranged pice in the OP.

What's a "pice"? What's a "pre-arrange pice"? Talk sense, please.

Pointing out an obvious typo, twice!! One way of doing it I suppose. Just having the balls to admit you were wrong is another of course.

I certainly read it yesterday, haven't looked through today to see why it has disappeared but the fact remains. Where are the witnesses to say the german guy acted violently first? Obviously his missus has memory loss, driver can't be found, crazed gang dispersed, CCTV out of order. Lol what a joke, seems like some of you guys would be happy to go in and lecture the poor guy in his coma.

[slipperx]

100B is perfectly fair, too much even. 200B is just a rip-off.

Who can say this is a rip off ??? Who are you to judge that ??? If you don't like the price, you don't use tuk tuks, that s it... As well since they don't have meters, you should always agree on the price before jumping in a tuk-tuk.

I wonder how much this guy would have paid in Germany for the same trip ? 10 or 15 EUR ?? Would he dare to say he does not pay the bill in his own country ???? I don't think so.

I don't caution the behavior of the tuk tuk drivers, it is unacceptable to beat someone to death for that but I am sure those kind of incident could be avoided with a bit of diplomacy...

Yes World War 2 could have been avoided with a bit of diplomacy no doubt - funny the British tried that and just got a piece of paper - probably more than you would get here trying to be diplomatic with the crazy Tuk-Tuk mob.

Yes the German guy should have negotiated the price first, yes he shouldn't have pushed the lovely honest Tuk Tuk driver, yes he should have let his wife's brother pay the extra 100 baht. There are many things in this world that people should do but don't. All of those actions pale into insignificance to the beating of a man sufficient to send him to hospital with bleeding to the brain and needing ICU treatment. That is criminal, brutish behaviour and needs to be eradicated from society because it is bad for society and that is what the police should be working towards - upholding the laws of the country for the better protection of its citizens and Thai society. Beating up foreigners is against the law because it is bad for society.

With the regularity of these attacks it has to be clear that the Tuk Tuk drivers need policing and much better regulation and what's more the police should leave no stone unturned in bringing them to justice. That is another 'Yes' statement that won't happen because, firstly, it is not the business of the police to get involved in these sorts of things here (they can't even be bothered to enforce a court arrest warrant unless they are paid to do so) and secondly some of them are involved in the 'cartel' and the police are just a big club and look after their own - especially if the person on the take is your boss.

It will take someone with a lot more power to come in and sort this out but don't hold your breath for what is the benefit for some really powerful person to stick his neck out - no benefit = no action.

[orosee]

Since there are a lot of assumptions flying around, I'd like to add my own:

What if the couple agreed with the TT driver on a 100 Baht fare for the trip and he tried to charge them later 100 Baht per head? That would clear up the maths and even leave a door open for a "misunderstanding" exit.

Apart from that it appears to me that living in Phuket requires one to bend over and take it up the rear any time, any place. You guys seem to be the towns people from High Noon, Seven Samurai and oh so many other movies where nothing will change until the hero finally arrives. Keep your face towards the ground, you'll find a 1 Baht coin now and then.

And what century are the guys from who were writing about "their women"? "Thais and their women". Jeeez... thanks for making the West a better place to live by leaving!