tombkk Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 I agree with SpiderMike. There is no excuse for this type of behaviour. If this guy is accused of a crime then he should not be tortured, but charged. No charges were made. This is just one more example of police stupidity and greed gone mad. This incident should be widely publicised. It is beyond a joke, it is beyond simple corruption. This man was suffering a heart condition, he could have died, most likely his condition was exacerbated by his mis-treatment. How many other westerners in Thailand (those who bring in money & support Thai families) will suffer medical problems and then be harassed for money ? I will let lose my libertarian tendencies—an armed citizenry does not have to endure these stupidities. A disarmed citizenry does. You really amazed me. Do you seriously believe that this tabloid told the whole story? I think it has been sufficiently pointed out by long-term residents on this forum that the story does not makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinediscoking Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Sounds like Oliver Stone's next movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombkk Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 It's sad to see most posters here essentially calling the Swede a liar and saying that his story is made-up nonsense. This is so unfair, I feel! Remember that it happened at Pattaya Police Station, which is probably the most corrupt police station in Thailand, and this police station may even qualify for the S.E. Asia Champions League of corrupt police stations. Its corruption and ethics have been infamous since before I came to Thailand in 1984. No, we are not saying the Swede is a liar. We are saying the newspaper did not tell the whole story. We have no idea what the Swede said, we only know what the newspaper published. And *that* doesn't make any sense. If you have been in Thailand for a while, you will agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermes100 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 This story need to be shown overseas, and Thailand need a serious black eye over this. I do not care what the circumstances are, this is completely unjustifiable. The only way changed happen here, is if Thailand loses face worldwide. The tourism industry is dying on the vine, and the TOT continues to spin out the false figures. An informed source told me that the island wide occupancy rate in Koh Samui in June was 20%! That is the lowest rate in the past 20 years. Something is happening, in a big way, and every Thai I talk to has their head in the sand, in regard to the issues. Where is the Anna Hazare of Thailand? Do the Thai people care, at all? Does the government care, or even acknowledge these issues, in the slightest manner? Who is going to be held accountable for this latest travesty? No, the majority of Thai people don't much care. They have never been outside their country and have no clue how the rest of the world is run. They think this is normal, besides, it's happening to farangs not Thai's, and all farangs are rich, so, mai bhen rai. The same can be said for most third world nation's. The west is far from perfect but one thing I do like is the education system. Basically here there is none. The world does not and should not respect any qualification given here,In fact the system here is counter education in that it teaches people not to think, question probe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombkk Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 remember this guy did nothing wrong only make a small mistake do not discharge on him, this could happen to anyone of us as me fell sorry for this man if u want complaint AGAIN THE F POLICE ONLY AND ONLY How do you know the guy did nothing wrong? Well, he did overstay his visa, which is wrong (and not a small mistake for someone who has been here for 10 years). But being arrested for a second time does suggest that he did something wrong... Just because this particular newspaper did not report it, it does not mean that there isn't anything else. Be fair, do not base your opinion on the information you receive from a tabloid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombkk Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 What do you suppose would happen in all of your home countries if you walked into a police station and announced that you were an illegal alien? In my country? The USA? They actually used to give you home mortgages. The government still gives you an earned income tax credit (read: cash stipend) for all of your children, legal or illegal, real or fake. You also enter into the census for purposes of political redistricting, so that you sort of receive political representation based on your racial identity. Your children entitle you, as an illegal alien head of household, to acquire, distribute and spend all welfare funds, including WIC, food stamps, housing, etc. And if you're in a couple of Texas border towns, the official language is even in your homegrown Spanish, if you're from a latin country. In other words, you get everything but the key to the city and sometimes you get that, too, on Cinco de Mayo. Next question. Here is the next question: Do you believe that the individual featured in the OP should have been offered a home mortgage in Thailand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombkk Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 If you believe that story I have a bar beer for sale you might be interested in... well, perhaps you could prove it is false then. That I doubt. Some people will always say so.I am not sure why. But if you for one minute doubt it could not be true and that sort of thing does not happen here you should get some lawyer's details asap. But please, enlighten us. I hope this is followed up. I hope this is followed up by the whole story, I agree with you. Somehow I don't think this will happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteeleJoe Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Sounds nasty.... But for some reason, I can't help but think some pieces were left out of this story, perhaps a history of overstays, or something else... Either way, I am sure Mr Kent is happy to be back home again! I think I have to agree , what do we not know ? on thye other hand I read a case of a German guy sailed his boat into Thailand was jailed for a supposed infraction of the law (because he was very wealthy ) they kept him for months just asking for more money all the time. It is sad that we have to pit up with this shit but nobody cares , only money talks here. There was a very wealthy German in Pattaya who had many businesses.He brought a boat to Thailand and did not pay tax on it.Later on he was jailed in Germany for fraud.He collected money for an animal fund and put the money-the most part-in his own pocket.As far as I know at this time the German police already asked for his extratiction. If you and the previous poster are talking about Wolfgang Ullrich -- there's a HUGE part of the story you may not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatrickid Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Any Swedish people care to provide a comment/clarification. background on the allegations of association with organized crime in Thailand? The term Upsalalamaffian keeps popping up for me. If the allegations of an association with known gangsters were substantiated, it would go a long way in explaining why the gentleman was removed so quickly. I appreciate that the entertainment industry often has ties to unsavoury characters because that is the nature of the industry and it does not mean someone is a criminal. However, some additionall background to the story would help. And yes, a person's past activities do make the difference. I don't think this would have happened if this had been the average run of the mill dull normal Swede. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteeleJoe Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 (edited) I have some real doubts about this story too. Regardless of who actually did what, I suspect we are missing some facts... What happened to this swedish guy is terrible, no doubt about that. But I start to be a little be sick of all the comments stating that' only money counts here in Thailand'.We simply forget that it's quite convenient for us - the farang living in Thailand- to know that, if we will be in some kind of trouble in the future, we will be able to get out of it just paying somebody.When I do something wrong on the road with my car I am happy to get out of it with a 300 bath bribe, whereas in my country it would cost me 200 euro... Furthermore there are SPECIAL detention centers for farang who overstay... I won't get into the fact that you are so approving of corruption -- despite the massive and horrific damage it does to this country in vast, vast array of ways --just because it's convenient for you and the rest o us Farangs; I've been through that discussion before (with a poster on this very thread as a matter of fact, if I'm not mistaken - the same one who seemed to imply that what allegedly happened to this guy isn't much different from what would happen anywhere) and can't be bothered to do it again. But I can't help but highlight you comment about the special detention centers for Farangs. Edited September 3, 2011 by SteeleJoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 (edited) Any Swedish people care to provide a comment/clarification. background on the allegations of association with organized crime in Thailand? The term Upsalalamaffian keeps popping up for me. Not sure about that [yet]*, but he is a music/artist manager. See old article from another tabloid here: http://www.expressen.se/noje/1.704990/jag-trodde-hon-var-dod (use Google translate) *: Ok, it is said he has 'some background/history' with that gang, but nothing 'hard' - a lot of people in the party-biz has been involved with 'bad' people due to the latter groups wish to be a part of that industry and availability of money to invest/spend. Edited September 3, 2011 by TAWP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacksuitdandruff Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Dear Swedes, After reading this article, please do not come to visit or stay in Thailand if you fear for your health and safety. As for everyone else, enjoy! Sincerely, Miracle Thailand ---- Is it just me or is there something missing from this article? C'mon, is the Swede really as innocent as the article makes him out to be? Btw, I have a heart problem too. A bar girl broke it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanSaiExPat Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 What do you suppose would happen in all of your home countries if you walked into a police station and announced that you were an illegal alien? IN America nothing would happen. Haven't you read about Obama's aunt and uncle Omar Obama? They's been living in America illegally for more than 20 years. Nothing happens to them and millions like them. http://michellemalkin.com/2011/09/02/90138/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermes100 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Too many questions unanswered to make any judgment and the translation of the article is very questionable. 1. He was re-arrested after paying his fine. On what charge? 2. He had a lawyer. Did the lawyer seek bail? 3. He paid a bribe of ฿30,000 through his lawyer. How did he get this money to his lawyer? Also, he could not bribe the police to let him go to the house he rented to get clothes and a shower? 4. He had a lawyer. Why didn't the lawyer notify the Swedish Embassy? 5. The points brought up by posters about the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital's visa policy are correct, or at least they were in 2005. 6. On the other hand, if the victim had been involved in some illegal activity, why would he have gone to the police under any circumstances? The improbabilities associated with this situation constrain me from pointing fingers anywhere. Those that I have pointed out barely scratch the surface; and, from the comments made by the spokesperson for the Swedish F.O. it does not appear that much will change. She said there are several similar cases. This leads me to the following conclusion: The victim reacted angrily to his first arrest and may have said some unkind words about the monarchy and/or the police. The police can hold anyone for investigation for 18 days without filing a charge. Lese majeste aside, it is not illegal in most countries to overload your mouth with criticisms of the police when one is arrested, but it is inadvisable in any country, including the so-called democracies of the Anglo-American Empire. Is it not such a shame that in 2011 we are all still so backward. Really we have progressed so very little. We are not a great deal better than our primate ancestors. It amazes me that in this day and age there still exist's some ' special family's" who seem quite able to convince themselves and sadly others, usually their own minions from whom they get the strongest support not seeing that they are basically getting a raw deal And that they have a right to so much power. Some like to think it is ' God given" And woe betide them if anyone dare's to question this. And these family s often abuse this power in the extreme.Some are rumored to be amongst the richest in the world, kind of funny when all one see's is corruption,nightlife,dysfunction.It must surely be just a rumor after all, surely someone special would do something about it. That article was banned, as was book by the men who investigated a certain crime some year's ago that lead to one person getting his " God given" power's which they have dispensed of so wisely and for everyone betterment. I see no pride and no improvement until we all stop this ridiculous game and grow up. I wonder why? What else do we not know about? This nonsense belongs only in the past. Censorship is a tool for the bullyboys to stay in charge. Notice which country's ( all do to a certain degree, it is not all so absurd),have the most and then see how they all seem to be rather sadly behind. There may be law's against moaning about certain family's in these behind place's. It certainly should be used in this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 A post has been removed as a poster had deleted quoted post headers as he had reached the maximum number of nested quotes allowed leading to misunderstanding of who posted what. When replying to certain parts of a post, learn how to use the Insert quotation feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogi100 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 remember this guy did nothing wrong only make a small mistake do not discharge on him, this could happen to anyone of us as me fell sorry for this man if u want complaint AGAIN THE F POLICE ONLY AND ONLY How do you know the guy did nothing wrong? Well, he did overstay his visa, which is wrong (and not a small mistake for someone who has been here for 10 years). But being arrested for a second time does suggest that he did something wrong... Just because this particular newspaper did not report it, it does not mean that there isn't anything else. Be fair, do not base your opinion on the information you receive from a tabloid. The Swede has given his account of the affair and the paper printed it. I have a friend who had a similar although not quite such an horrific experience and he was kept in the pokey for a week so these things can happen. The police have not come out and denied it neither have they confirmed his story although in the latter case they are hardly likely to. If you are so convinced he did something other than overstay what do you think it was to warrant such barbaric treatment. If no evidence of such further crimes exist then we must accept the Swede's story as being truthful. You cannot keep saying it was a fabrication for no apparent reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard4849 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 remember this guy did nothing wrong only make a small mistake do not discharge on him, this could happen to anyone of us as me fell sorry for this man if u want complaint AGAIN THE F POLICE ONLY AND ONLY How do you know the guy did nothing wrong? Well, he did overstay his visa, which is wrong (and not a small mistake for someone who has been here for 10 years). But being arrested for a second time does suggest that he did something wrong... Just because this particular newspaper did not report it, it does not mean that there isn't anything else. Be fair, do not base your opinion on the information you receive from a tabloid. The Swede has given his account of the affair and the paper printed it. I have a friend who had a similar although not quite such an horrific experience and he was kept in the pokey for a week so these things can happen. The police have not come out and denied it neither have they confirmed his story although in the latter case they are hardly likely to. If you are so convinced he did something other than overstay what do you think it was to warrant such barbaric treatment. If no evidence of such further crimes exist then we must accept the Swede's story as being truthful. You cannot keep saying it was a fabrication for no apparent reason. I always wondered what kind of intellect bought into those crazy stories they carry in tabloids...now I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanley2550 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Its nice to see that Thailand is a perfect example of Buddhist Teaching. They need to start making examples of Thai people in some of the western countries...The same rules should abile. oversta until you can get the money to fly home. It is unfortunate that all these negative epsiodes should go unpublished in international news papers, with big sign that says warning stay out thailand, with all the reasons why. Spend your money elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moe666 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 (edited) I always love this type of story, it brings out the best in people especially those who think they know Thailand but know nothing. As for the conditions in the jail are not they the same for Thai people as it is a Thai jail. To all who want to get on the open mouth and bash Thailand group before getting all of the facts and I do mean facts give it a break boys it only make you look like a twit. Thailand is what it is donot break the law you are only asking for trouble. Even if you are only coming for a short visit you should know the immigration laws and how they will affect you. If you have been here 10 years and do not know you go to immigration for a visa overstay and not the police shame on you. Edited September 3, 2011 by moe666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankster Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Says he lived in Thailand 10 years before ? Would know not to ask the police about a expired visa .. Story sounds strange .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_ne_uk Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Now I remember why I gave up living in thailand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOLDBUGGY Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Easy to get extension based on hospitalization. From Police order 777/2551 2.25 In the case of medical treatment or convalescence or to look after a patient: Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 90 days at a time. (1) Confirmation and request has been made by a physician responsible for the treatment. The Physician must describe the details of treatment and advised that the illness is a barrier for travelling. (2) In the case of looking after a patient, confirmation and request has been made by the physician responsible for the treatment or by an embassy or consulate. (3) Patient Carer, except parents, spouse, children, adopted children or children of spouse, shall be granted no more than 1 extra person. What you say PoorSucker is very true. I once Overstayed as I to got sick just when my Visa ran out to, with the Flu! Which could have been the Chicken Flu, or the 24- Hour One Litres Whiskey Flu. Honestly, I think the Whiskey Flu. But it didn't matter as I did overstay almost a month, and even though I was new to Pattaya Thailand, I knew I was in trouble. But even though I was sick ,and did see a local doctor to prove it, I didn't go to the Pattaya Police Station with this problem. I had heard long ago that was a real bad idea. Going to Pattaya Immigration would have been better, but still a bad idea after you Overstayed. Please people, who don't understand this yet, although most of us here do That Overstaying is against the Law of Thailand. That we see this as a small fineable offense, when they do not, although it can be depending on the preson and circumstances. Who knows off hand the Overstaying Penaty in there own country, let alone Thailand, I don't! But I can guess it is not much different that in Thailand. Perhpas worst, although i must admit Jail is worst here then back home. But Jail is Jail anywhere, and Overstaying is a crime anywhere to. But for my Accidental Criminal Offence I decided to deal with it in Bangkok, at Bangkok International. I think most of the Wise Shepards here will tell you to do this, if you do Overstay. Sure they were not happy about it, and pulled me aside to a special Overstay Booth. But once we talked, and I explained, there was no problems or bribes. I did pay the Fine, but they did tell me that I wouldn't even have to pay this fine if I showed proof of my illness from a doctor. So to do next time. Also that this Overstay does not effect my coming back. Not sure if any of this is true, but I am back, with no hassel at all at the border, so some of it is for sure true. This is my first post here, although I have read Thai Visa Forum from time to time, and liked it. So I kept coming back. But this was the first time I joined as I agreed to what so many of these Poster said, but not everyone. One smart Poster said, there is much more to this story about the Swede than what we know. I agree 100% because there has to be. There is more here than we can see or will be told of in the Newspaper. But I won't LINK this person to some Mafia, as I don't know him at all. So I assume he is a nice man caught up on some terrible thing. But is it really this way? The artical said that he lived here for 10 years in the past, but didn't know what to do with an Overstayed Visa. So trying to correct a wrong he went to the Pattaya Police Department. I lived in Pattaya for one year, on and off, and I knew this would be a bad idea already, but he did not. So Logic tells me there is more to this than that, and I am sorry to all the Swedes to say it is not true and the Thai's are not after you for your Nationality. You are better liked then I am. But we all get this picture here, of this Inocent guy, that we are fed by the Press to believe, could do no wrong. Just trying to make things right, after a small wrong, and trying to correct this then ends up in Hell! Well I cry BS to that!. Where is the rest of this true story? Some Thai Judge gives him a 2,000 Baht Fine, and ordered to be out that same day, but unknown to anyone he is picked up by the Thai Police outside Court Room, knowing he will be free soon, and go against Court Orders just to force $1,000 out of him? Grow Up people! Going against a Court Order is serious! So did you ever think why they did this? Could it be that he was being investigated for a more serious crime and they didn't push it as they had him on by the short and curleys, for Overstaying, to continue this investigation? So with him knowing this and finding out, maybe he went on purpose, to the Pattaya Police Force, to force them to charge him,or let him go. Knowing he could then take his small fine, after a night in jail, and run? Don't Know! But makes more sense then this Press BS I read. This is my first Post and I don't want to offend anyone, although I am not afraid to do this. But I joined mostly because of the Poster here, who I feel have good knowledge of Thailand and experience in life, and I feel I can make friends here as well as enemys. But to those Posters that have nothing more to say about Thailand then to Backstab Thailand and consistantly call Beautiful Thailand a Third Country Nation, full of nothing more than bribes, please stop. Go Home! Go Back to playing your Video Games and let the Grown-ups talk. We won't Miss You! But neither did your Family I suppose, and why you are here, and not there. This will be the last time I say Please to you. Because I shouldn't have to say that as it only might stop you for a moment and prove your ignorance of Thailand to everyone else. Also your ignorance on the world and life as well. So best you go with the Flow, or Go Home! What ever is Best for You. But don't spend your life trying to chance things you cannot. Here! Or at home! Okay? Up to You! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zabaleta Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 maybe just maybe,this is just the start of his masterplan to make a few quid writing a book about him being banged up abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 maybe just maybe,this is just the start of his masterplan to make a few quid writing a book about him being banged up abroad. Maybe, just maybe 10 pages of posts is giving the story too much credit on a quiet news day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbandung Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 I am very confident that 90% of this story is BS. But people looking to lose weight should certainly look into spending some days at a Pattaya jail since it appears you can lose 16 Kilos in this time. The writing / translation of this article should make any question its truth. It is tabloid journalism. Surprised they don't talk about the injuries he received when 'thrown" into a car and brought to the airport. Good thing it must have been a friendly airline to allow him on a flight too covered in sh@t and p@ss. These stories told well after the fact by people who want to 'warn' other people are always questionable and rarely ever is their one ounce of proof to support their claims ... also find it interesting this guy says he was no novice and had previously lived in Thailand 10-years ... but chose to go the police station to show them his expired visa?!?!? The part of the dead person being in the cell for days was a nice touch. Logic tells me this is another tourist with some mental issues. I'm with you Nisa, it just doesn't ring true. At the very least we are hearing only one side of the story. How many people really aren't aware of what's going on with their visa? I always know exactly when my work permit/visa expires because over staying is a serious issue in almost every country in the world. And yet another thread loaded with Thai bashing ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 @sfban - actually I find this topic to be more bashing of a swede. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikis Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 yep. disgusting. i really hope that chuvit actually does what he said. to snitch all the corrupted pigs. he started very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbandung Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 @sfban - actually I find this topic to be more bashing of a swede. The Scandinavians have been prominent in the press lately. For all the wrong reasons unfortunately. BTW, what's your opinion on the Thai bashing that regularly occurs in threads here? Cheers, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Ok steve; here goes. (Sorry off topic). 1) This tv, not UV, CV- so criticism of things in TH would seem normal. 2) Everybody likes to consume bad news-when is the last time you read a front page story about "farang gives up seat to lady on bts". 3) Consider the source-why get worked up about somebody else's views. I am sure we have all had moments of 'utter frustration' here. I am having one now. 4) Finally, if there is un-warranted criticism of local authorities it's mostly because of past track records causing people to become jaded. I imagine the same 'feelings' are held towards home country authorities as well (governments etc). 5) Bonus material: I 'bash' things here from time to time, that doesn't mean I don't love it. Just yesterday I let my son know I was none too pleased that he pulled the curtains down in our one of the rooms in our condo. Now back to the swede, has he been booked yet for an appearance on the swedish equiv of Piers Morgan Tonight yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikis Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 hopefully he goes to media and tells his story and someone will translate and subtitle it to thai. spread the word. god bless the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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