British kick-boxer to be extradited to Thailand over murder of US Marine

[tropo]

My post was deleted under the guise of OFF TOPIC . Funny isn't it .

LOL. There's another forum rule you're about to discover too...

[roamer]

Many posters here seem to be missing the relevant point, that whether or not to extradite is now a political decision, In the current political climate a Tory Home Secretary will extradite, simply could not afford to be seen doing otherwise,. For God's sake, a huge proportion of the current government would most likely think Thailand has prison conditions they would like to see in the UK.

Totally amazed at posters still saying he should be tried in the UK or extradited to the US. Are you thick or what ?

Understand this, no if's or buts. He is either extradited to Thailand or he walks. That is English Law.

As for the fools here saying he will be saved by the ECHR you are only demonstrating how little you know about it.

[jeanelie]

May Lee get rewarded with a heavy ball and a chain.

[Wallaby]

Many posters here seem to be missing the relevant point, that whether or not to extradite is now a political decision, In the current political climate a Tory Home Secretary will extradite, simply could not afford to be seen doing otherwise,. For God's sake, a huge proportion of the current government would most likely think Thailand has prison conditions they would like to see in the UK.

Totally amazed at posters still saying he should be tried in the UK or extradited to the US. Are you thick or what ?

Understand this, no if's or buts. He is either extradited to Thailand or he walks. That is English Law.

As for the fools here saying he will be saved by the ECHR you are only demonstrating how little you know about it.

I have no idea whether your last sentence is correct but the rest of it is spot on.

[judgejohn]

Many posters here seem to be missing the relevant point, that whether or not to extradite is now a political decision, In the current political climate a Tory Home Secretary will extradite, simply could not afford to be seen doing otherwise,. For God's sake, a huge proportion of the current government would most likely think Thailand has prison conditions they would like to see in the UK.

Totally amazed at posters still saying he should be tried in the UK or extradited to the US. Are you thick or what ?

Understand this, no if's or buts. He is either extradited to Thailand or he walks. That is English Law.

As for the fools here saying he will be saved by the ECHR you are only demonstrating how little you know about it.

As to the fools that believe that he is not protected under ECHR well what can i SAY .

Edited September 7, 2011 by judgejohn

[ukrules]

As to the fools that believe that believe he is not protected under ECHR well what can i SAY .

There's nothing to say to them, they are in denial. Only time will tell.

[metisdead]

A post with content and a link to Phuket Wan has been deleted as well as the replies to that post:

31) Members are not allowed to quote news articles or material from Bangkokpost.com or Phuketwan inside topics on Thaivisa.com. Posts from members containing quotes will be deleted from the forum. Members posting links referring back to the sites is also not allowed and will be deleted.

Some comments on moderation have been removed as per rule 21.

[metisdead]

and the whole story is where? I hate these news snippets. Give us the whole story and in detail if you can .....

I would tell you but it would prob get deleted by a certain mod

As long as the article is not in breach of forum rule 31 and related to this topic, go ahead and post, otherwise don't bother.

[Richard4849]

Maybe the Brits will just let him go...like they did with the Lockerbie bomber.

There was so much bashing of the Thai legal system as offering no justice, so I simply brought up Lockerbie as an example of the UK legal system not being without miscarriages of justice as well. Get your hackles down...with all the Thailand bashing here, some people are certainly uptight about the slightest criticism of the paradises they came from.

[Richard4849]

I've never heard if anyone starving to death in a Thai prison. Did I miss the news? Or yet another cover-up?

I would say the man in the picture at the top of the page wasn't far from death . Is it a picture from Bolson ? I wonder where if not .

He arrived in that condition, homeless and crazy.

And he wasn't even in the Thai prison system -- he was in the holding tank at a local police station.

[boracic]

Well the Indian guy (Sakesh Raxena ?) stalled extradition from Canada to here for over TEN years, and a Malyasian set a UK record for extradition from the UK..another banker again over 10 years.

Both lived in splendour while on bail. Saxena now ??? been here a few years awaiting trial.

Perhaps Mr, Pitbull can do the same. If he did stab a guy, why would anyone with his abilities carry a knife....great defence for his lawyer .

[Richard4849]

Well the Indian guy (Sakesh Raxena ?) stalled extradition from Canada to here for over TEN years, and a Malyasian set a UK record for extradition from the UK..another banker again over 10 years.

Both lived in splendour while on bail. Saxena now ??? been here a few years awaiting trial.

Perhaps Mr, Pitbull can do the same. If he did stab a guy, why would anyone with his abilities carry a knife....great defence for his lawyer .

I don't think Pitbull has quite the resources of the other guys you are talking about. And they didn't kill anyone.

[chrisandsu]

Get a room you two!

[metisdead]

Posts have been removed as a poster had deleted quoted post headers as he had reached the maximum number of nested quotes allowed leading to misunderstanding of who posted what. When replying to certain parts of a post, learn how to use the Insert quotation feature.

Off topic bickering posts have been removed.

[carmine]

I've never heard if anyone starving to death in a Thai prison. Did I miss the news? Or yet another cover-up?

Neither have i Richard, but ofcourse if someone did it would be covered up. Why would you believe a word of what the prison system here says when they "openly break the Geneva Convention?"

[Nisa]

I've never heard if anyone starving to death in a Thai prison. Did I miss the news? Or yet another cover-up?

I would say the man in the picture at the top of the page wasn't far from death . Is it a picture from Bolson ? I wonder where if not .

He arrived in that condition, homeless and crazy.

And he wasn't even in the Thai prison system -- he was in the holding tank at a local police station.

People fail to realize the difference between a jail and/or holding tank and a prison. Sleeping on the floor, being locked up in an over crowded cell for 23 to 24 hours a day is norm in a holding tank or while in a local jail all over the world as is getting crappy and limited meals. In most Thai prisons the only time people are locked in a cell is at night .. similar to other prisons in the west. There are of course different levels of prisons in Thailand like the west too depending on the severity of your crime and/or amount of time you are doing. Rape, murder, corruption and over crowding in the more tough prisons is not uncommon in Thailand or in much of the west., These issues may allow for delays in the extradition but they will not stop the extradition ... prisons are bad places to be regardless of what country.

Other posters have also stated there is no medical care in Thai prisons which is also ridiculous as they even have hospital(s) solely for prisoners in Thailand. As for dental care, I know in the US they only real care you get

Hopefully this post will remain but it seems that speaking about extradition issues around Thai Prison conditions may be off topic if you use comparisons of prison conditions in the west to show they are not all that different ... beyond the obvious fact that more richer and developed nations have more modern ways of confining and restraining prisoners.

[Nisa]

I've never heard if anyone starving to death in a Thai prison. Did I miss the news? Or yet another cover-up?

Neither have i Richard, but ofcourse if someone did it would be covered up. Why would you believe a word of what the prison system here says when they "openly break the Geneva Convention?"

People choose not to eat in prisons all over the world. Thai prisons provide food and there is no reason for people to starve to death. The food may be crap and and they may not offer a farang menu but there is no reason to starve to death. In Thai prisons, like others, having money can buy you more food as well as the stronger preying on the weak. Too many people here think they know the Thai prison system because of random or select stories about Thai jails or prisons. The fact is that even in the west the toughest prisons for the worst offenders are horrible places where you are not afforded the same human rights as non-criminals. None of this is going to prevent extradition of this person when their is so much likelihood he did commit this murder. Facing death and likely torture would be grounds but simply because people are robbed, stabbed, raped, lose weight and killed in prison (all over the world including the UK) is not going to prevent this person from facing justice.

[carmine]

I've never heard if anyone starving to death in a Thai prison. Did I miss the news? Or yet another cover-up?

Neither have i Richard, but ofcourse if someone did it would be covered up. Why would you believe a word of what the prison system here says when they "openly break the Geneva Convention?"

People choose not to eat in prisons all over the world. Thai prisons provide food and there is no reason for people to starve to death. The food may be crap and and they may not offer a farang menu but there is no reason to starve to death. In Thai prisons, like others, having money can buy you more food as well as the stronger preying on the weak. Too many people here think they know the Thai prison system because of random or select stories about Thai jails or prisons. The fact is that even in the west the toughest prisons for the worst offenders are horrible places where you are not afforded the same human rights as non-criminals. None of this is going to prevent extradition of this person when their is so much likelihood he did commit this murder. Facing death and likely torture would be grounds but simply because people are robbed, stabbed, raped, lose weight and killed in prison (all over the world including the UK) is not going to prevent this person from facing justice.

Sorry i don't understand your point. Are you saying regular breaches of human rights are ok? but do you think minor offeders should be put in leg irons? Do you think its either neceesary, civilised or acceptable? Surely if they want to benefit from international laws they too should have to adhere to them, or have i missed something?

[Richard4849]

"Human rights" are not an absolute. Different countries and different people have different definitions.

[Hermes100]

" maybe the brit will let him go like they did the lockiebee bomber"

Does this gent mean the Libyan bomber trained by the CIA ? Who then gave permission to the brit's ( who are basic one and the same in all security matters, rather like father and son in fact, the son however has matured and has out grown the father, but pays polite homage) to let him return to Libya?

Why is there some UK USA anti feeling about this. In Europe we look upon the Brit's basically being the fathers, or more accurately the grandfathers of the new worlder's. Different from us euro's, but all well meaning and liked.

Why all this hostility over silliness and what has it to do with the issue really?

We have people warning us not to mess with combat hardened marines who can kick ass ( that I called rambo which may of upset some) although in this case he did not quite do this and ended up sadly dead.

And another enlightened gent advising us to take lesson from a fictional film of a non "hero" vigilante who decided to takes up arms and have a go at the baddie's, fails, the perp is free because the ass kicking was not quite good enough and , oh yes, he also end's up dead too!

Such infighting, surely we should get away from all this. It is not constructive. But it is amusing how some carry on.

[Richard4849]

I've never heard if anyone starving to death in a Thai prison. Did I miss the news? Or yet another cover-up?

Neither have i Richard, but ofcourse if someone did it would be covered up. Why would you believe a word of what the prison system here says when they "openly break the Geneva Convention?"

The Geneva Convention pertains to prisoners of war...not regular prisoners.

[carmine]

"Human rights" are not an absolute. Different countries and different people have different definitions.

Oh please....that is so weak!!!

[carmine]

I've never heard if anyone starving to death in a Thai prison. Did I miss the news? Or yet another cover-up?

Neither have i Richard, but ofcourse if someone did it would be covered up. Why would you believe a word of what the prison system here says when they "openly break the Geneva Convention?"

The Geneva Convention pertains to prisoners of war...not regular prisoners.

Agian!!! Come on Richard, i find most of yout posts quite reasonable and i have no problem with you defending the Thais from the bitter and twisted Thai bashers but what i think you are "suggesting" here is quite ridiculous. Not everything here is perfect so stop trying to defend the indefensable. You're not breaking an apologist code here just being more realistic.

Edited September 8, 2011 by carmine

[F1fanatic]

USA will never extradite a citizen but expect other countries to do it. If not they kidnap them anyway! We were not there, we do not know what went on so unless you have cast iron proof that will stand up in court .......

Have to agree.

Aldhouse deserves to be extradited to Thailand if the story is true - but as long as the USA refuses to extradite American citizens they have no right to complain if the Brit government decides otherwise.

[Richard4849]

"Human rights" are not an absolute. Different countries and different people have different definitions.

Oh please....that is so weak!!!

What do you mean, weak?

I consider the right to clean air a human right, but many smokers consider it their human right to smoke where they please.

Backers of Obamacare consider free medical treatment a human right, others do not.

If you disagree with my statement, I'd be happy to hear your opinion.

[Richard4849]

I've never heard if anyone starving to death in a Thai prison. Did I miss the news? Or yet another cover-up?

Neither have i Richard, but ofcourse if someone did it would be covered up. Why would you believe a word of what the prison system here says when they "openly break the Geneva Convention?"

The Geneva Convention pertains to prisoners of war...not regular prisoners.

Agian!!! Come on Richard, i find most of yout posts quite reasonable and i have no problem with you defending the Thais from the bitter and twisted Thai bashers but what i think you are "suggesting" here is quite ridiculous. Not everything here is perfect so stop trying to defend the indefensable. You're not breaking an apologist code here just being more realistic.

Someone invoked the Geneva Convention in regard to Thai prisons -- I just pointed out that it is irrelevant.

I happen to think that Thai prison standards are more than enough for people of Aldhouse's ilk -- I'm not defending anyone or anything.

[Nisa]

USA will never extradite a citizen but expect other countries to do it. If not they kidnap them anyway! We were not there, we do not know what went on so unless you have cast iron proof that will stand up in court .......

Have to agree.

Aldhouse deserves to be extradited to Thailand if the story is true - but as long as the USA refuses to extradite American citizens they have no right to complain if the Brit government decides otherwise.

When has the US refused to extradite a citizen?

[Nisa]

I've never heard if anyone starving to death in a Thai prison. Did I miss the news? Or yet another cover-up?

Neither have i Richard, but ofcourse if someone did it would be covered up. Why would you believe a word of what the prison system here says when they "openly break the Geneva Convention?"

People choose not to eat in prisons all over the world. Thai prisons provide food and there is no reason for people to starve to death. The food may be crap and and they may not offer a farang menu but there is no reason to starve to death. In Thai prisons, like others, having money can buy you more food as well as the stronger preying on the weak. Too many people here think they know the Thai prison system because of random or select stories about Thai jails or prisons. The fact is that even in the west the toughest prisons for the worst offenders are horrible places where you are not afforded the same human rights as non-criminals. None of this is going to prevent extradition of this person when their is so much likelihood he did commit this murder. Facing death and likely torture would be grounds but simply because people are robbed, stabbed, raped, lose weight and killed in prison (all over the world including the UK) is not going to prevent this person from facing justice.

Sorry i don't understand your point. Are you saying regular breaches of human rights are ok? but do you think minor offeders should be put in leg irons? Do you think its either neceesary, civilised or acceptable? Surely if they want to benefit from international laws they too should have to adhere to them, or have i missed something?

My point was clear in that conditions are bad (including leg irons for those in custody for minor crimes) in jails and prisons even in the west but this doesn't mean extraditions don't happen due to these conditions.

[Richard4849]

USA will never extradite a citizen but expect other countries to do it. If not they kidnap them anyway! We were not there, we do not know what went on so unless you have cast iron proof that will stand up in court .......

Have to agree.

Aldhouse deserves to be extradited to Thailand if the story is true - but as long as the USA refuses to extradite American citizens they have no right to complain if the Brit government decides otherwise.

When has the US refused to extradite a citizen?

Two seconds on Google is all it takes to expose this as untrue.

Here's the first of many examples that came up of the US extraditing a citizen to face trial in a foreign country:

http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/harshbarger-charged-in-canada-with-husband-s-shooting-death-1.795036#axzz1XLQ0Aabs

[Nisa]

As to the fools that believe that believe he is not protected under ECHR well what can i SAY .

There's nothing to say to them, they are in denial. Only time will tell.

Seems like an iffy, at best, hope ...

http://euromos.org/e...on-to-portugal/

http://humanrightshouse.org/Articles/5467.html

Edited September 8, 2011 by Nisa