Netanyahu says Israel doesn't have to apologize to Turkey

[flying]

The flotilla's intention was not to deliver weapons and terrorists to Gaza. The intention was to cause an international incident to put pressure on Israel to end the blockade so that the next flotilla could include weapons and terrorists.

If that were true weapons & fighters would have dried up long ago.

[Ulysses G.]

Well it is true and they have not "dried up".

[flying]

You folks may claim supposed terrorist are scary but things like this web site are vastly more scary IMO

"Supposed terrorists"? I'm not sure how a website that points out anti-Semitic activity on the internet compares with Al-Qaida, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah and Hamas - who have murdered thousands of people - but I guess that it makes sense to some.

Yes but the antisemitic brush has a very wide stroke

They deem anything that does not agree with them or paints them in a light they choose not to see as pro-terrorism/antisemitic

Edited September 5, 2011 by flying

[koheesti]

I hardly think the flotilla was full of terrorists, it was well known what they were doing and where they were going. I suppose chefs brandishing cooking utensils is now an imminent threat to Israel's security.

40 "chefs" armed with "cooking utensils" and ties to the Muslim Brotherhood.

The Israeli version no doubt. I'm sure the Israeli govt would be quaking in their boots at people having those weapons of mass destruction.

You mean you really can not figure out that these weapons were used against the Israeli soldiers on the hate flotilla after you types have been trying to spin the whole incident for months?

Can you imagine the outrage if the Israelis had used knives and clubs on the flotilla thugs? "Crimes against humanity!"

[Ulysses G.]

Yes but the antisemitic brush has a very wide stroke

That probably has something to do with Nazi Germany or the hatred against Jews and other minorities in many other places all over the world today. There are many more hateful websites claiming that the fraudulent "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" are real than ones pointing out anti-Semitic lies like this on line.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[flying]

Well it is true and they have not "dried up".

Hence the only purpose of the blockade is to make the Palestinians

feel someone controls what they get via that route. Be it various foods/goods etc.

Nothing gets through unless the masters approve it?

Training them to be Subservient? Wonder if that makes them resentful?

[Ulysses G.]

It is to keep Hamas from smuggling in more weapons - pretty simple really.

[koheesti]

Well it is true and they have not "dried up".

Hence the only purpose of the blockade is to make the Palestinians

feel someone controls what they get via that route. Be it various foods/goods etc.

Nothing gets through unless the masters approve it?

Training them to be Subservient? Wonder if that makes them resentful?

Hopefully it "trains" them not to vote for terrorist parties like Hamas in the future who when handed total control of Gaza do nothing more than drag them down further by launching attacks on their neighbor because they are religious fanatics.

[Wallaby]

You mean you really can not figure out that these weapons were used against the Israeli soldiers on the hate flotilla after you types have been trying to spin the whole incident for months?

I wondering why they didn't photograph the spoons as well, very serious cache they have there, just can't get those sorts of things in Palestine. hahahahah

What a load of crap some people on here talk, but not surprising. Fancy saying that Israel did this because later boats would come in with weapons. That's like saying you are going to be executed because if you have a son he may be a future murderer. hahaha some here make me laugh.

I suppose the Israelis aren't bright enough to actually go in hard on the ones that they know are actually carrying weapons, instead of a flotilla carrying.....people. Just how many boatloads of weapons have gone through lately anyway, are there hundreds of boats getting through? Surely Israel can't be that incompetent to let through boatloads of weapons.

But then again, Israel keeps doing the same things over and over and expect a different result. A good definition of insanity.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Wallaby

[Ulysses G.]

Israel keeps doing the same things over and over and expect a different result.

Not sure why you can't understand the purpose of a protective blockade against weapons that the terrorist group Hamas wants to use on civilians, but most people get it pretty easily.

Israel is still there, has one of the best armies in the world and is the only democracy in the area. That is the result that really counts.

[chuckd]

I wondering why they didn't photograph the spoons as well, very serious cache they have there, just can't get those sorts of things in Palestine. hahahahah

What a load of crap some people on here talk, but not surprising. Fancy saying that Israel did this because later boats would come in with weapons. That's like saying you are going to be executed because if you have a son he may be a future murderer. hahaha some here make me laugh.

I suppose the Israelis aren't bright enough to actually go in hard on the ones that they know are actually carrying weapons, instead of a flotilla carrying.....people. Just how many boatloads of weapons have gone through lately anyway, are there hundreds of boats getting through? Surely Israel can't be that incompetent to let through boatloads of weapons.

But then again, Israel keeps doing the same things over and over and expect a different result. A good definition of insanity.

In response to your question about how many boatloads of weapons have gone through lately...

I don't think any have gone through. Israel has this thing called a naval blockade which prevents these sort of shipments from entering the country and Gaza.

You must have heard about it. It's been in all the papers.

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted and a response.

Please stay on topic.

[Steely Dan]

I'm certainly not talking only about this highly questionable incident and Israel once again telling the world to go <deleted> itself because they feel they're above being accountable for their actions. These people have a growing list of heinous atrocities and an obvious disdain for anybody not Israeli.

I am by no means antisemitic and have never been terribly political, but I have undoubtedly become anti-Zionist.

Have a care, as Martin Luther King said, when people say they are anti-Zionist they are actually antisemitic. Leaving that aside for the moment we are discussing the shit storm surrounding 9 deaths two years ago when the so called arab spring (sic) has resulted in thousands of deaths yet until recently even Syria one of the worst offenders was attracting little or no attention, and so it has always been arabs can murder Christians, Jews or each other by the millions and it receives less attention than if someone in Israel forgets to flush the bog. To prove the politicized nonsense coming out of the U.N, the UNHRC has issued more motions condemning Israel than all other states put together, and that includes the likes of Iran or Saudi Arabia - In the light of this is it any wonder whatsoever that Israel tells such bodies to go and <deleted> themselves? I know I certainly would.

[Wallaby]

I wondering why they didn't photograph the spoons as well, very serious cache they have there, just can't get those sorts of things in Palestine. hahahahah

What a load of crap some people on here talk, but not surprising. Fancy saying that Israel did this because later boats would come in with weapons. That's like saying you are going to be executed because if you have a son he may be a future murderer. hahaha some here make me laugh.

I suppose the Israelis aren't bright enough to actually go in hard on the ones that they know are actually carrying weapons, instead of a flotilla carrying.....people. Just how many boatloads of weapons have gone through lately anyway, are there hundreds of boats getting through? Surely Israel can't be that incompetent to let through boatloads of weapons.

But then again, Israel keeps doing the same things over and over and expect a different result. A good definition of insanity.

In response to your question about how many boatloads of weapons have gone through lately...

I don't think any have gone through. Israel has this thing called a naval blockade which prevents these sort of shipments from entering the country and Gaza.

You must have heard about it. It's been in all the papers.

So if none had gotten through then the earlier explanation that they went gung ho on this boat so that those on the next that may be carrying weapons would think twice, is just nonsensical and yet another lame excuse to justify it.

[Wallaby]

Hopefully it "trains" them not to vote for terrorist parties like Hamas in the future who when handed total control of Gaza do nothing more than drag them down further by launching attacks on their neighbor because they are religious fanatics.

Ah yes, they can have democracy, but only if you like who they vote for.

With a bit of luck Israel will learn that what they are doing isn't working.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Wallaby

[Jingthing]

Hopefully it "trains" them not to vote for terrorist parties like Hamas in the future who when handed total control of Gaza do nothing more than drag them down further by launching attacks on their neighbor because they are religious fanatics.

Ah yes, they can have democracy, but only if you like who they vote for.

With a bit of luck Israel will learn that what they are doing isn't working.

Yes, Israel could surrender their entire country. That's what the majority of Palestinians want; a fact easily obtainable by looking at local opinion polls. It's a war. Both sides have their interests and both sides have lines they can't cross. So far, looking at the two positions, there is no realistic path towards peace.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Jingthing

[Steely Dan]

I see the usual suspects plus a few new faces have descended on this thread like flies around s--t when their absence was conspicuous as the Islamic world who's rights they champion racked up thousands of dead bodies, 785 of which were confirmed as religiously motivated all during the so called holy month. Their hypocrisy is only matched by that of Erdogan.

P.S His military chiefs resigned en-bloc and many are in jail for supposedly plotting to overthrow Erdogan, I sense he suspects he will lose the next election and has decided not to have one.

[Credo]

Turkey has a history of military incursions (especially into Iraq) when faced with domestic problems. These actions divert the public's attention away from domestic problems.

Israel is also having domestic problems. There have been protests about high prices (I believe).

A pretty good combination for a diplomatic incident.

[Ulysses G.]

Hopefully it "trains" them not to vote for terrorist parties like Hamas in the future who when handed total control of Gaza do nothing more than drag them down further by launching attacks on their neighbor because they are religious fanatics.

Ah yes, they can have democracy, but only if you like who they vote for.

It would help if they voted for an organization that does not immediately switch to a system with no true democracy. Democracy is not simply about holding an election once in a very great while. It is about allowing the things vital to a democracy (free spech, free press, freedom of association and so on) to flourish. It is about holding free and fair elections regularly. Hamas does not do any of these things.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Wallaby]

Well I guess we in Australia don't have much of a democracy then. We don't have a constitutional right to free speech or a right to association. Common law gives us a limited freedom of speech, being a member of a bikie gang, and other organisations is illegal.

But still, the west demanded Palestine elections then jumped up and down when the people didn't vote for who the west wanted. Some 'countries' just cannot function as a democracy due to the hatred between differing factions within.

But back on topic.

[up-country_sinclair]

Even if he wanted to, Netanyahu no longer has the political capital to apologize for the excessive and unreasonable actions of Israeli agents aboard the humanitarian aide flotilla. He's got half a million citizens in the streets protesting his policies and a historic vote coming up at the UN which will be an epic embarrassment for his government.

If he were to do the right thing and apolgize, there's no way he could withstand the revolt from the extreme right wing of his very fragile coalition. But the writing is on the wall, and it's only a matter of time.

[Jingthing]

But the writing is on the wall, and it's only a matter of time.

Humor us. Spell out what the writing is saying. Thanks.

[Ulysses G.]

Netanyahu is not going to apologize for self defence against 40 Turkish mercenaries paid to attack Israeli soldiers enforcing a lawful blockade and nor should he.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

Yeah I don't see any Israeli leader apologizing to the Turks over something like this. Yes Netanyahu is a hawk but no Israeli leader can afford to be seen as weak on defense.

[up-country_sinclair]

But the writing is on the wall, and it's only a matter of time.

Humor us. Spell out what the writing is saying. Thanks.

I would have thought that it's quite clear from my post that I was referring to his coalition govt. collapsing.

Sufficiently humored?

[Jingthing]

I would have thought that it's quite clear from my post that I was referring to his coalition govt. collapsing.

Sufficiently humored?

It wasn't as funny as I had hoped for, but it'll have to do.

Yeah I could see Israel shifting a skosh to the left, but in this current threatening security environment, forget about them electing a peacenik. Not going to happen.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Jingthing

[up-country_sinclair]

Jingthing,

1. Who (besides you) mentioned anything about a "peacenik" being elected. Opposition leader Tzipi Livni is not a dove by any stretch, but she's also not a warmonger.

2. You posted that my reply wasn't "as funny as you hoped for". What, pray tell, were you hoping for?

Humor us. Spell out what you were hoping for. Thanks.

Edited September 5, 2011 by up-country_sinclair

[Jingthing]

Jingthing,

1. Who (besides you) mentioned anything about a "peacenik" being elected. Opposition leader Tzipi Livni is not a dove by any stretch, but she's also not a warmonger.

2. You posted that my reply wasn't "as funny as you hoped for". What, pray tell, were you hoping for?

Humor us. Spell out what you were hoping for. Thanks.

You got me! Checkmate.

[Ulysses G.]

Jingthing's response is quite understandable as it is.

[Jingthing]

It was an ironic surrender but 'nuff said ...