House If Wife Should Die

[Martin_F]

Has anybody heard of sec 93 approvals?

Found it!

This is copied from an earlier Sumitr Man post.....

SECTION 93 OF THE LAND CODE

"The Minister shall permit the inheritance of land by an ALIEN who is the LAWFUL heir, but such acquisition, when added to that which is already held, my not exceed the amount which may be held under SECTION 87."

SECTION 87 OF THE LAND CODE

For residential purposes, an ALIEN may own 1 Rai.

In the event that you do NOT get the Minister's approval under SECTION 93, SECTION 94 comes into play.

SECTION 94 OF THE LAND CODE

"All land which an ALIEN has acquired unlawfully or without permission shall be disposed of by such ALIEN within the time limit prescribed by the Director-General, which shall not be less than 180 days, nor more than 1 year.

If the land is not disposed of within the time prescribed, the Director-General shall have the power to dispose of it."

Hope this helps.

SM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Dragonman]

I read once that you can inherit a house from your wife but you can only keep it for a short period of time.  The law exists only with the intention of giving you time to sell the property.  Your wife needs to have written a will and registered it with the local Thai authorities.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Our lawyer told us we would get one year to sell our house if the person whose name is on the title to our house should die. We did the will leaving us the house at the same time as the house purchase. Oddly, our lawyer told us to not do a 30 year lease, as it would muddy the issue of who owns the house. He says we own the house, per the sales contract, and the person holding the title is merely doing so as our agent, per the contract. I'd hate to see it tested in court, though. Fortunately, we trust the friend holding the title in name completely, AND we have a unique ability to ensure her financial well-being in the future.

A friend whose Thai wife owns his house has something on the title that gives him life occupancy, even if she dies. Apparently that provision can only be made for an immediate family member, but can be made for a farang.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can't say I'm really clear on what your lawyer is getting at Did you purchase the house under a separate sales contract? My legal records suggest that the land would not be owned by you and you would still require a land lease. Contracts are personal to the people involved, and any sale of the land would mean the contract was invalid, unless your lawyer is smarter than he appears and he included clauses in the contract. A 30 year land lease would not muddy who owned the house if worded correctly.

Your last paragraph refers to a usufruct and it can be registered by anyone, not just family. However I have my doubts about their legal validity and this is substantiated, to some extent, by Courts treating them as leases( with slight variations) in practice and not allowing life terms, but restricting to 30 years. Unless you are of course a fruit farmer when you would be perfectly entitled to a usufruct

[dr_Pat_Pong]

It certainly is somewhat less than straightforward isn't it ?

[Thai Chi]

It certainly is somewhat less than straightforward isn't it ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, to sort out some of the confusion in this very intresting thread, can someone answer the following questions.

1. Can a Falang married to a Thai have His name on the 'chanote' (title/deed)? this refers to a newly constructed house after

being married.

2. If this married couple then go on to have a child, does that child become the #1 in line to take over ownership of the house? considering no other children from previous marriage.

3. If the wife dies before the farang husband (keeping in mind the child) and his name is on the chanote, what would be the lawful outcome in regards to occupancy of the house?

I hope this post will not muddy the waters any further

Dutch, although I do not know you personally, please accept my sincere condolances in what must be a very hard time in your life. I am sure the good memories of your wife will keep you strong.

[Dragonman]

It certainly is somewhat less than straightforward isn't it ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, to sort out some of the confusion in this very intresting thread, can someone answer the following questions.

1. Can a Falang married to a Thai have His name on the 'chanote' (title/deed)? this refers to a newly constructed house after

being married.

2. If this married couple then go on to have a child, does that child become the #1 in line to take over ownership of the house? considering no other children from previous marriage.

3. If the wife dies before the farang husband (keeping in mind the child) and his name is on the chanote, what would be the lawful outcome in regards to occupancy of the house?

I hope this post will not muddy the waters any further

Dutch, although I do not know you personally, please accept my sincere condolances in what must be a very hard time in your life. I am sure the good memories of your wife will keep you strong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. No.

2. A thai will is pretty essential. You can name the wife/ husband as heir or the child with a guardian/ administrator until they are adult.

3. If you are the child's guardian you will be able to manage the house on the child's behalf until they are adult and throw you out ( Make sure you're not too strict during teenage years.) Of course there are many variables regarding thai relatives coming out of the woodwork and this is why sound wills are essential. Probably a 30 year lease would not go amiss as it would discourage relatives from contesting.

[gisele]

SECTION 93 OF THE LAND CODE

"The Minister shall permit the inheritance of land by an ALIEN who is the LAWFUL heir, but such acquisition, when added to that which is already held, my not exceed the amount which may be held under SECTION 87."

SECTION 87 OF THE LAND CODE

For residential purposes, an ALIEN may own 1 Rai.

In the event that you do NOT get the Minister's approval under SECTION 93, SECTION 94 comes into play.

SECTION 94 OF THE LAND CODE

"All land which an ALIEN has acquired unlawfully or without permission shall be disposed of by such ALIEN within the time limit prescribed by the Director-General, which shall not be less than 180 days, nor more than 1 year.

If the land is not disposed of within the time prescribed, the Director-General shall have the power to dispose of it."

Alien: man or woman, right?

So, my husband is Thai, we own land (or should I say he owns land), we are building a house soon so if he dies I would inherit the house and the land?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Do NOT rely on that for a moment. It won't happen.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Not to be morbid or anything, but if I am farang and prohibited from owning a house in LOS... house would be owned by Thai wife.  If she were to die, what would I have to do? 

I am assuming that I inherit her property on her death.  Would I be forced to sell the house to someone else who could rent it back to me if I wanted to continue living there?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Be careful. In Thai law, the land and the house are two seperate entities. Ownership of one does not mean ownership of the other. Be sure to understand this when looking up Thai law or talking to a lawyer.

When I checked about 15 years ago, anyone could own a house or building, but not anyone could own the land the building was on.

Just be sure to keep the two seperate in your discoveries.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Generally speaking, nothing has changed inclding inheritance. Everyone likely to be affected should seek sensible legal advice while there is time. A few friends could join in the expenses. Do not leave something this important to unqualified but well intentioned input.

[sbk]

Now to get the husband to discuss it! I don't know about everyone else but every time I try to bring this up my husband says "I don't want to think about it, I don't like to think about death".

Anyone have a good way of bringing this up for discussion with their Thai spouse?

[gisele]

Now to get the husband to discuss it! I don't know about everyone else but every time I try to bring this up my husband says "I don't want to think about it, I don't like to think about death".

Anyone have a good way of bringing this up for discussion with their Thai spouse?

My husband is not keen on discussing it either. He says there will be no problem so no need to discuss it further. If I mention that we should discuss it because since I am farang, and I might have a problem later, I want to make sure we prepare for any eventual surprises. He says he has made sure that I am taken care if he dies first (which he is sure he will since at 31 he is so old).

He always wonders why I seem to go looking for problems when in my mind I am really trying to prevent future problems.

[olaus]

It is in some way tabu also for a thai woman to discuss this problem about a will.

[Old Man River]

It is in some way tabu also for a thai woman to discuss this problem about a will.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen to that. However, in my case we have a child so it is something we finally are addressing. When children are involved, spouses think differently.

I am currently in process (just at the beginning) of getting all these issues sorted out by an attorney, whose advice I trust. I would advise anyone with children or who are planning on having children to let the best attorney you can afford sort these issues out.

[otherstuff1957]

I bring this up with my wife occasionally and she always says "Don't worry, I take care of it". I'm willing to walk away from everything if we get divorced, and I'm ready to make her sons my heirs, but I do occasionally worry about outliving her.

I'd hate to be a homeless 80 year old!

[Thaipwriter]

It certainly is somewhat less than straightforward isn't it ?

So, to sort out some of the confusion in this very intresting thread, can someone answer the following questions.

1. Can a Falang married to a Thai have His name on the 'chanote' (title/deed)? this refers to a newly constructed house after

being married.

2. If this married couple then go on to have a child, does that child become the #1 in line to take over ownership of the house? considering no other children from previous marriage.

3. If the wife dies before the farang husband (keeping in mind the child) and his name is on the chanote, what would be the lawful outcome in regards to occupancy of the house?

I hope this post will not muddy the waters any further

Dutch, although I do not know you personally, please accept my sincere condolances in what must be a very hard time in your life. I am sure the good memories of your wife will keep you strong.

1. No.

2. A thai will is pretty essential. You can name the wife/ husband as heir or the child with a guardian/ administrator until they are adult.

3. If you are the child's guardian you will be able to manage the house on the child's behalf until they are adult and throw you out ( Make sure you're not too strict during teenage years.) Of course there are many variables regarding thai relatives coming out of the woodwork and this is why sound wills are essential. Probably a 30 year lease would not go amiss as it would discourage relatives from contesting.

following on........... a more detailed answer to question number 1 would be:

1. yes. a foreigner can have his name on the chanote. his wife or girlfriend or "trusted" party will be the "owner" the farangs name is mentioned as either Usufruct or lessee.

[Thaipwriter]

SECTION 93 OF THE LAND CODE

"The Minister shall permit the inheritance of land by an ALIEN who is the LAWFUL heir, but such acquisition, when added to that which is already held, my not exceed the amount which may be held under SECTION 87."

SECTION 87 OF THE LAND CODE

For residential purposes, an ALIEN may own 1 Rai.

In the event that you do NOT get the Minister's approval under SECTION 93, SECTION 94 comes into play.

SECTION 94 OF THE LAND CODE

"All land which an ALIEN has acquired unlawfully or without permission shall be disposed of by such ALIEN within the time limit prescribed by the Director-General, which shall not be less than 180 days, nor more than 1 year.

If the land is not disposed of within the time prescribed, the Director-General shall have the power to dispose of it."

Alien: man or woman, right?

So, my husband is Thai, we own land (or should I say he owns land), we are building a house soon so if he dies I would inherit the house and the land?

Alien = man or woman...yes of course.

If your hubby has a will, yes you can inherit the land and house. but you have to sell it within one year!

but dont bank on anything happening here that is fair and proper where a farang is concerned......things are just not geared up to assist us!

[Thaipwriter]

It certainly is somewhat less than straightforward isn't it ?

it's as straightforward as knitting fog

[ray23]

It certainly is somewhat less than straightforward isn't it ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, to sort out some of the confusion in this very intresting thread, can someone answer the following questions.

1. Can a Falang married to a Thai have His name on the 'chanote' (title/deed)? this refers to a newly constructed house after

being married.

2. If this married couple then go on to have a child, does that child become the #1 in line to take over ownership of the house? considering no other children from previous marriage.

3. If the wife dies before the farang husband (keeping in mind the child) and his name is on the chanote, what would be the lawful outcome in regards to occupancy of the house?

I hope this post will not muddy the waters any further

Dutch, although I do not know you personally, please accept my sincere condolances in what must be a very hard time in your life. I am sure the good memories of your wife will keep you strong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. No.

2. A thai will is pretty essential. You can name the wife/ husband as heir or the child with a guardian/ administrator until they are adult.

3. If you are the child's guardian you will be able to manage the house on the child's behalf until they are adult and throw you out ( Make sure you're not too strict during teenage years.) Of course there are many variables regarding thai relatives coming out of the woodwork and this is why sound wills are essential. Probably a 30 year lease would not go amiss as it would discourage relatives from contesting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

following on........... a more detailed answer to question number 1 would be:

1. yes. a foreigner can have his name on the chanote. his wife or girlfriend or "trusted" party will be the "owner" the farangs name is mentioned as either Usufruct or lessee.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know I probably should just keep my mouth shut, but I'm three years into this now and I'm finding Thailand to be user unfriendly when it comes to foriegners. don't get me wrong love the place but how can you make future plans for investment in this atmosphire.

I would love my wife to have her own house, but I would also like to know I'm investing in my life as well and if somehting happens to her I have a place to live out my final years.

Would love to build some sort of business for her future but I do the books or anything and I'm out the door.

Got annual visa, no problem, but laws can and are changed.

The longer I stay the more this is looking like a gigantic leap of faith.

I don't know what I will do but I have began and have found other countries that are much fairer to immigrants including my Thai wife. I came here for peace of mind and to find a wonderful lady for my wife, I found the girl still searching for the other.

I know that no where is perfect, but it is hard to find the logic in the Thai government system in that it makes it difficult for the retiree to come here and spend his money year after year. We come here and increase in most cases the level of life for Thai citizens, add financialy to the Thia economy. It would seem only fair that we be giving not a good deal but at least a fair one.

We pay for the house but yet we have to go through all this game playing jut to have a place to live if soemthing goes wrong. If my wife is dead and am as well I could care less who ends up withhe property. But during our lifetimes it only seems equitable that we are allowed to use it since we paid for it. Bu that is not waht I see here.

Sorry for being a worry wart, but that is where the grey matter is between the ears these days. Not exactly peace of mind

[Maestro]

You know I probably should just keep my mouth shut, but I'm three years into this now and I'm finding Thailand to be user unfriendly when it comes to foriegners. don't get me wrong love the place but how can you make future plans for investment in this atmosphire.

I don’t know about your country of origin, but I know as a fact that it is much easier for me to travel to Thailand, even to retire there, than it would be for a Thai national to so in Switzerland.

[JimGant]

If your hubby has a will, yes you can inherit the land and house. but you have to sell it within one year!

Just to clarify, if your name is on the Chanot as a lessee, you'll be allowed to remain on that land for the remainder of the 30-year lease. And although we haven't clarified the house ownership issue on this thread, my assumption is that anything you've built on your leased land is for your use for the duration of the lease, i.e., a hostile relative can't move in or attempt to tear down 'your' house. In my case, we just checked our Chanote, and the wife had included the wording 'the land and all current and subsequent structures upon' in the lease addendum. She said she did this upon the recommendation of the land official helping her (we didn't use a lawyer). Sounds good to me, whether or not officially codified.......

For those who haven't leased the land your house is upon, I'd suggest you do so soonest, as this is the only avenue available to protect your interests (other than going the Thai corporation shell route). It's easy, not very costly, and having your name on that Chanot should protect your interests in any Thai court (if that becomes necessary). This should be true whether or not your lessor is your wife, companion, or a stranger.

The option to have a clause allowing for a second 30-year lease renewal has been called into question, particularly if the land has been sold during the initial 30-year lease (but where the law requires the new owner to honor the existing lease). For us old farts, this isn't a problem. But for younger types, still alive and kicking after 30 years, a 'hostile' lessor, for whatever reason at the end of the first 30 years, could be problematic. What the answer is, I don't know. Having a renewal clause can't hurt -- but it might not be what it seems when the time comes.

One other recommendation, where the spouse or companion owns the land: Have his/her Will state that should Thai law preclude you from owning the land, that you get to choose to whom title will transfer. This will allow you to choose your current favorite relative at the time -- and not be stuck with the now out-of-favor niece mentioned in the Will.

Notwithstanding all the above, TIT.

[Dragonman]

Not to be morbid or anything, but if I am farang and prohibited from owning a house in LOS... house would be owned by Thai wife.  If she were to die, what would I have to do? 

I am assuming that I inherit her property on her death.  Would I be forced to sell the house to someone else who could rent it back to me if I wanted to continue living there?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Be careful. In Thai law, the land and the house are two seperate entities. Ownership of one does not mean ownership of the other. Be sure to understand this when looking up Thai law or talking to a lawyer.

When I checked about 15 years ago, anyone could own a house or building, but not anyone could own the land the building was on.

Just be sure to keep the two seperate in your discoveries.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Generally speaking, nothing has changed inclding inheritance. Everyone likely to be affected should seek sensible legal advice while there is time. A few friends could join in the expenses. Do not leave something this important to unqualified but well intentioned input.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Doc, I agree that the input from this forum should be used as background for a detailed conversation with a good lawyer regarding specific problems personal to oneself. List what you see as relevant concerns highlighted on the forum and question the lawyer in detail. Do not be frightened to query anything you are told.

From comments just on this thread, a "good" lawyer may be hard to find, and of course it is no good saying a law firm is good, as they may give you a newly qualified lawyer who doesn't know his posterior from his elbow.

I am not qualified in thai law, which is basically centred on European law without the tort element, although have studied it for some time. However having been involved in British Civil law, specialising in Property law for nearly 30 years before my retirement, I have found the way useless lawyers get away with incompetence is by people not having the background to query, and ask them to justify their conclusions. It would have saved many cases I took where clients sued lawyers for faulty advice.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Like the busload of lawyers that went over the cliff. During the investigation one of the cops started crying. His colleague asked whether he was overcome because of the loss of police lives. No said the cop, I just discovered there were two empty seats.

[Dragonman]

Like the busload of lawyers that went over the cliff. During the investigation one of the cops started crying. His colleague asked whether he was overcome because of the loss of police lives. No said the cop, I just discovered there were two empty seats. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can think of a couple I would have liked fill the seats. That's why I retired early. Too much greed, not enough competence

[surin]

Now to get the husband to discuss it! I don't know about everyone else but every time I try to bring this up my husband says "I don't want to think about it, I don't like to think about death".

Anyone have a good way of bringing this up for discussion with their Thai spouse?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tell your husband that if he doesn't want to talk about it ....You will kill him!!

[ray23]

You know I probably should just keep my mouth shut, but I'm three years into this now and I'm finding Thailand to be user unfriendly when it comes to foriegners. don't get me wrong love the place but how can you make future plans for investment in this atmosphire.

I don’t know about your country of origin, but I know as a fact that it is much easier for me to travel to Thailand, even to retire there, than it would be for a Thai national to so in Switzerland.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Country is the US and you can buy property there now as long a you have money and more then likely you could get financed the same as any American. Yes it is harder to get a visa for there, but once your issued a green card and you never report to immigration again, in five years you can apply for citizenship and it would be very unusual if you are not issued citizenship. Once you have the green card, you apply for a Social Security card, nothing more then a formality. Then you can work anywhere the will hire you. I knew guys who worked in Law Enforcemetn and were not sitizens still living in the States on a green card.

Maybe it's a harder to get in because once your in, you have the same as any citizen has.

Don't get me wrong I love Thailand thats why I'm here. I would just like to see a bit fairer deal thats all.

[Heng]

And here, all you need is the 40 million and then you're in like slim!

The barriers are a bit different, but for people on both sides of the ocean, it's still a relatively difficult mountain to get over.

[ray23]

And here, all you need is the 40 million and then you're in like slim! 

The barriers are a bit different, but for people on both sides of the ocean, it's still a relatively difficult mountain to get over.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very True but each place is different, recently did some research on Ecuador, cost of living is very similar, maybe even less. Immigration requirement for retirement prove you have an income of $800 a month. no requirement to put it in thier banks. You can immediately own property in your name, own a business, or work anywhere you want upon entry. You are also entitled to citizenship when you enter. So there are places that are more user friendly, the others. I think it will break down to where you want to be and what are you willing to give to be there.

From Talking to guys who have been here for many years, some of which have residency visas at one time Thailand was very user friendly and things were a lot easier here for immigration then today. I think things changed when Thailand had the tremndous growth period befoer the crash it was the fatest growing economy in Asia it has recovered well since the crash.

Ecuador had a crash as well it has not recovered, maybe thats the difference I don't know

[solo siam]

Why cant you just buy property in your wifes name and then get her to lease it to you/your company for 30 years and also put the building in your name (as you can own that).

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Why cant you just buy property in your wifes name and then get her to lease it to you/your company for 30 years and also put the building in your name (as you can own that).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That'd be too logical.

[dutch]

There is the possibility of Habitation (orsai).This is normally a lifetime contract.

Must be registered with the landoffice.

according to sections 1402-1403-1404-1405-1406-1407-1408-1409,of title V of Book IV (property) of the Civil and Commercial code

[danone]

dutch - please receive my sympathy for your loss. nobody can help you with words in this situation, but be confident, there comes a time when things are fine again.

another question to mentioned ownership problems:

are there any "better" rights for a foreigner with residency permit?

our land and house is on my wife's name. in a will she transfers all her possessions to her son with me having the right to live in the house.

now having me the residency permit since some time, would this strengthen my legal situation in case of any problems?