New Thai Immigration Commissioner From October 1, 2011

[Brunus]

Marriage extension

My Thai wife in Italy immediately got a permanent permit of stay (similar to a Permanent Residency) just because we got married and after 2 years from marriage she applied for Italian citizenship. No money in the bank required, no fee to be paid. She doesn't contribute to the society (doesn't work or pay tax), but she enjoys all benefits of an Italian (welfare, health care.....) just with her permit of stay

I would like to ask the new immigration boss if wouldn't be possible make life easier for foreigners married with Thai nationals.

My idea:

A 5 years marriage extension if the couple is married for less than 5 years. No 90 days report. Issue Thai ID card

After 5 years from the marriage the foreign spouse can apply for Permanent Residency

No money in the bank required, no fee to be paid. Same rules for male spouses and female spouses of Thai nationals

[Cuchulainn]

90-day notification of staying longer than 90 days

Basically, if you have been here for quite a while (5 years or more??) with an unblemished record on a Non Immigrant visa extension, you should have certain privileges:

* 90 days extended to once yearly or online service ( or abolished altogether)

Thai ID card

* an ID card with microchip

Annual extensions in general

* annual Non Imm extensions extended to once every 5 or 10 years (with the corresponding fee, of course)

Service at border check-points

* the right to exit/enter via Thai passport holders queue in airport (even if you are alone)

I don't mind paying extra for a better, efficient service.

[wpcoe]

Uniform interpretation of rules

Priority number one

Make implementation of rules consistant

Uniform interpretation of rules

I like a lot of the very reasonable, sensible questions posed above...

Let me try to phrase one of those issues in a way that might be more presentable:

Does the Immigration Bureau have a policy/expectation that all of its offices throughout the country should apply the same rules and requirements for applicants/foreigners, as spelled out in the national regulations?

And if so, who can applicants/foreigners contact in the central Immigration Bureau HQ for assistance when a local office is making rules/policies/requirements that don't match with the national ones?

Uniform interpretation of rules

Lest the Commissioner express having no idea what those consistency problems are, please free to ask him specifically why, when using a combination of savings + income to qualify for a retirement extension, Hua Hin Immigrations requires that the funds be seasoned for 3 months, whereas Cholburi Immigrations (and apparently most other offices) does not.

[thaibeachlovers]

Corruption

Sorry if this a repeat, but not going to read 5 pages.

Why can imm. office charge 3,000 baht for a "home visit" ( for marriage extension ) when my house is only 1/2 hour away, and it's not even an official requirement.

[DrTuner]

Uniform interpretation of rules

I've got a question regarding different policy implementations in immigration offices. Since internet forums such as thaivisa allow foreigners to compare procedures in different immigration offices within Thailand and to notice clear differences in them, is there any system in place where a foreigner may report an apparent problem with the interpretation of current policies to a higher level than the immigration office itself, or any plans to form such a system ?

[Jeffrey346]

When a Thai National applies and receives a US Visa, the Visa is good for 10 years.

Why must we reapply for a Thai Visa every year? If it fee based, then why not allow the fee to be collected without all the paperwork.

//Edit: Visa question. Not suitable for meeting with Immigration Commissioner.

I don't understand why this is not suitable. Isn't Thai Immigration all about Visa's? Don't we renew/reapply for our Visa at Thai Immigration?

[lopburi3]

The visas are issued by MFA by there Consulates overseas for travel to Thailand. Extensions of stay are what is obtained within Thailand to remain here for longer periods of time. You may be asking for a method to extend your stay on a monthly/yearly basis (such as used in the Philippines) rather than the 10 year US visa (which would not be a function of Immigration) but that is not clear as you call it a visa and visa issue is not what Immigration provides. Perhaps you would like to reword as a method to collect fee for extended stay from Immigration to eliminate the need for frequent travel?

[bangkokburning]

Marriage extension

Most married choose the Retirement extension rather than the cumbersome and tedious Marriage extension. It is a real failure of a visa classification as it is so problematic as to be barely used. Money that would have to be paid to the faux spouse plus the visa fees - with the 400k makes this route totally unappealing to a wayward punter.

Why all the hassles and fuss over the marriage extension? For all intents and purposes impossible to keep up a phony marriage or than the initial filing or at best an additional year. All that is required is some solid method to show the marriage is still intact on an annual or even bi-annual basis.

The paperwork is insane. Please remember this is for an extension of stay (1yr), this is not any sort of residency that might be compared to in the West.

Sending five policeman to the house and snooping about is not the way.

Requiring neighbors to take time from work to go to the station is not the way

Asking neighbors about the couple which they may very well have not met is not the way.

Even requiring the spouse to take the day off from work is onerous!

Is there any evidence of phony marriages? None that have come to light publicly. None.

Thailand needs to be more respectful, considerate of married couples.

[bristolgeoff]

i would make it easier if you are married to a thai, then make the visa and work permits not so much less hard work.but this question is allready being put foward.maybe he will look into it

//Edit: visa and work permit questions. Not suitable for meeting with Immigration Commissioner.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Maestro

[bangkokburning]

Annual extensions in general

The entire long stay process can be simplified by simply requiring the following:

1. Verified bank account 500K home country

2. Federal and state criminal search - no convictions

3. Over 50 years of age

4. Emg insurance policy - B6K (from embassy)**

5. Indigent Flight Insurance B1K (from embassy)***

This should get you an "O-X" visa.

Upon expiration of FOUR O-X visas the applicant must reapply at embassy abroad

Requirement upon entering Thailand:

Thai bank account w/ minimum of 90,000.

Requirement for NEW O-X visa at neighboring Emb/Cons:

Old O-X visa

Thai account with B90K per month average balance, seasoned no less than thirty days.

Have a nice day! Another O-X is issued - no drama

==================================

You may apply for four of these in a row and then must return to your home and reapply.

If you choose to take a TR at any time, you cannot return to O-X visa.

Thailand only needs to be concerned about whether people become involved in criminal activity or charges on the state.

**To cover the Kingdom of Thailand, home embassy would sell an insurance policy that covers XXX in emergency medical so that these people would never be costs to the hospitals.

***So that Thailand can repatriate any person that does not have the means on their own accord. Indigent flight insurance is offered. BUT...the person is blacklisted forever.

Any criminal activity including working w/o permit - finished forever and deported.

>> Get rid of the medical form applying from abroad. ALL diseases mentioned the applicant is far more likely to contract going to Thailand than bringing into Thailand. Really pretty insane.

[bangkokburning]

Thai ID card

IDENTIFICATION

I realize how important to carry ID in a foreign country and Thailand requires it of its own nationals. Having said that, foreigners are often at great risk of having passports stolen. We need a solution!!!

Passport Cards with RFID and magnetic stripes are now issued by many countries. ALLOW as internal ID with copy of TM card.

Money spinner for Royal Police:

Make Thai ID cards good for five years at a minimal cost. When people come into Thailand they can get a stamped/verified copy of their TM card for say B25?? This can be carried together in public as ID. I would imagine there is a strict law against counterfeiting Royal Thai Police documents but if someone is so stupid, you can have a signed agreement when making the ID that they they are blacklisted for life.

Every time I go in the ocean I am so worried leaving the PP behind.

No dodgy person can every hold your passport for extortion.

Drunks will never lose their passports to bar workers

This means less work, more jobs and more money for Thai police!!!

Edited September 24, 2011 by Maestro

[bangkokburning]

Presumably Annual extension for under 50s not qualifying under existing rules

Please tell the gentleman that it is easier and CHEAPER for a 35yo Thai woman making B20K to get a ten year visa to the USA than it is for an American with far greater assets and 50 years of age to obtain a visa to temporarily stay in the Kingdom for a year.

Once in the kingdom, there are all sorts of hassles reporting, records, dates and times...

For my girlfriend in the US - nothing. No reporting, not even any immigration on exit in USA.

SERIOUS RETHINK IN ORDER WITH GLOBAL RECESSION LOOMING!

She is the only thing that keeps me bound to Thailand at this point. That and the Andaman islands for which I would be happy only spending a few mos a year there.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Maestro
Added category title

[attrayant]

Marriage extension

Thai immigration policy is silent on how it treats legal same-sex marriages with regards to spousal immigration. It only states that the applicant must be married to a Thai citizen, and that the marriage must be legal in the state where it was performed.

Will Thailand join the growing list of modern, forward-thinking countries in recognizing the validity of legal same-sex marriages for immigration purposes?

[jonnyscot]

Annual extension for under 50s not qualifying under existing rules

I wish immigration to be considerate to a possible scenario of a stepfather who having brought up his wife's thai children as his own since many years from infancy and them accepting him as the father, giving them a quality education and good stable life, and suddenly he finds that his thai wife passes this life, what options would there be available for the stepfather to remain in thailand as father figure to the child.??

[TomTao]

Why is it that each time I attend the Immigration office to lodge an application for a Type 'o' non residential marriage visa I am given different information, the website is clear on what is required, but the officers do not seem too sure, the website has a requirement for ฿400,000 in the bank, or an income exceeding ฿40,000 per month or a combination of both. Each time I visit the office, the requirements change. Is it at all possible to have some consistency in information on requirements such as income and savings between the website and the officers in the Immigration offices. It would reduce a lot of stress and anxiety, as well as remove that sense of foreboding when approaching the office not knowing what today's requirements are. Please tell me, is it because the law is always changing and the officers are genuinly unsure, or is something else behind it?

Thank you

//Comment: The Police Order listing the requirements for the various types of extensions changed. The currently valid Police Order took effect on November 25, 2008 and can be viewed here on the website of the Immgration Bureau.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Maestro
Added comment.

[lopburi3]

Why is it that each time I attend the Immigration office to lodge an application for a Type 'o' non residential marriage visa I am given different information, the website is clear on what is required, but the officers do not seem too sure, the website has a requirement for ฿400,000 in the bank, or an income exceeding ฿40,000 per month or a combination of both. Each time I visit the office, the requirements change. Is it at all possible to have some consistency in information on requirements such as income and savings between the website and the officers in the Immigration offices. It would reduce a lot of stress and anxiety, as well as remove that sense of foreboding when approaching the office not knowing what today's requirements are. Please tell me, is it because the law is always changing and the officers are genuinly unsure, or is something else behind it?

Thank you

There is no such allowance for using a combination; it is one or the other for marriage. The regulation is in police order 777/2551.

[David006]

May we ask what is the objective of the interview?

Is it possible that many answers maybe so diplomatic and conciliatory as to be deem the interview unproductive?

Any chance we could have a thumbnail of what exactly falls under an Immigration Commissioner as opposed to a Minister of Interior etc...seems a bit blurred around the edges, if as you say, Immigration Minister is consulted then his influence may well get some of the non specific "immigration" questions fed into the right channels?

[jackal71]

90-day notification of staying longer than 90 days

Online registrations should be available if the process has to be done at all. The time & money wasted for everyone to have to register so frequently is absurd. Also, if the system has to continue, a better system should be developed for dependents. If everyone in a family has to report at 90 days individually according to their last entry, then if one person travels outside the country, they suddenly are out of sync with the rest of the family and have to report on separate days. This often results in multiple visits being needed.

Re-entry permit

Why not integrate the re-entry permit application process straight into the visa application/renewal process?

Family applications

The long queues at Immigration are often really difficult especially when you have to be there in person with your small children - waiting for hours in the queue with children is not fun! Is there a way that family applications (i.e. when children must be there in person) can be processed at a separate counter or at a specific time for families only? Or perhaps without the presence of young children being required?

[anterian]

Annual extensions in general

No point it duplicating all the previous comments but I do have one query, it applies to most of my dealings in Thailand, whether it is at my bank, or immigration, or even a visit to a hospital. What happens to all the paperwork I fill in? Where is it stored? I estimate several mature trees have been destroyed just keeping track of my activities since I have been living in Thailand.

[eriksen]

Corruption

Can we report immigrations officers that demands bribes for extensions anonymously.

Corruption

Or simply charge what they like ... and shortchange you... (at the same visit...)

[dominique355]

90-day notification of staying longer than 90 days

90 Days Report

1. Why do we have to report our address every 90 days? Why no just when we change the address?

2. Why the complicated formula of calculating "90 days" and not simply 3 months? Or the same day in 3 months?

3. Why are the 90 days calculated from our last entry into Thailand and not from the last time I reported my address to Immigration? To give an example. I enter Thailand on August 2. On October 28 I renew my visa where I have to sign half a dozen forms with my full address and 5 days later I have to report my address again.

Annual extensions in general

Renewal of Visa

1. Please make the rules clear, transparent and binding for all (foreigners and Immigration officers).

2. Please publish and update the requirements for the renewal on the Internet and request the officers to stick to this too. Every time I renew my visa, there some new forms and procedures.

3. Establish an Ombudsman where a foreigner can report anonymously an abuse of discretion of the Immigration officers without having to fear retaliation.

Re-entry permit

Re-entry Visa

1. While this procedure has never been a problem, being fast efficient and friendly, I just wonder why we do need a re-entry visa in the fist place.

2. If it is for financial reasons, increase the fee for the visa extension and thus simplify the whole procedure.

General observations:

Marriage extension

1. I would welcome a type of visa granted to a foreign family provider, simply based on fact that he/she is married to a Thai national. This would protect the family and the traditional values a family stands for.

Thai ID card

2. I would welcome a "Foreigner's ID card", simplifying any business with authorities.

[oldgeezer]

Retirement extension and 90-day notification of staying longer than 90 days and Thai ID card

I understand the reasons for yearly extensions of visas and the new offices are a pleasant change from the previous.

I must comment that the necessity for tracking of retirement vs. marriage and other types of visas should be recognized. For instance, marriage, education and other status may change, wherein retirement visas are likely until death. Of course at which time, one can no longer show up to extend.

I have been married to a beautiful Thai lady for 28 years, and have a non-resident retirement visa. Perhaps after 5 years, one could be allowed a 5 year extension and freedom from 90 day reports. I spend all of my time and income in Thailand and it would be nice to have some type of ID card to show (non) residency and allow one to keep their passport under lock and key where it belongs.

Thank you for your consideration.

[Arkady]

Has the new commissioner agreed to answer these questions and will the responses be published on TV or is asking for questions just an academic exercise?

//Comment: Read first paragraph of OP. Wait and see.

[renaissanc]

Marriage extension

1. Does Immigration plan to increase next year the amount of money required in the bank account?

2. Would Immigration kindly consider increasing the 1-year marriage visa to a longer period?

Re-entry permit

Whatever the original reason for having to obtain this permit was, does it still apply? If not, could the need for a Re-entry Permit be scrapped?

90-day notification of staying longer than 90 days

Since one already has a one-year visa, can this reporting not be done online, please?

[dinfisher]

90-day notification of staying longer than 90 days

If one has lived here in the same house for over 7 years on a retirement visa and not moved to any other address, why is it necessary to have to report to Immigration every 90 days just to confirm this. Surely the rule could be changed and one should have to report only if one changes the residential address. It is a lot of extra work for Immigration to receive reports that are the same every 90 days and a nuisance for retirees to have to go into Hua Hin each time. David Fisher

[sinbin]

Marriage extension

When applying for an 'marriage extension', why do you have to give photo's and details of your children when they bear no significance to the 'extension' ? It's adds extra paperwork and documents to be produced. 'Support of a Thai child' is a totally different extension.

Why does a married expat have to show more money in his account than a single person on a 'retirement extension' when we all know it cost more to stay here, as a family, than a single person.

Why don't expat women have to show money in the bank, the same as an expat male ?

[Spiny]

Permanent Residence

I have permanent residence also have a work permit. My wife has a 2 year multiple entry visa. What happens when I retire what visa can my wife get

[Doznotdiz]

There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding the actual one-year multiple entry retirement "visa" and the one year stamp in my passport. The stamp suggests that I may stay in Thailand for 10 months after the visa has expired. That said, there is no expiry date on the visa, and to make things even more confusing, below the visa are the words "Extension not allowed". Most people seem to think that the visa is irrelevant and that the stamp is critical meaning that the visa can effectively "lapse" (if indeed it has a one-year validity) and need not be renewed until one needs to take action before the stamp end date. There are others who think differently. Why is this so difficult to understand?

//Comment: Visa question. Not suitable for meeting with Immigration Comissioner.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Maestro
Added comment.

[ljerams]

If possible it may be a good idea to request a review of the Immigrations' various translations into English. Some are confusing at the present.

For example 'Use before' currently stamped on Visa periods is clearly incorrect as the last date is actually the last day of the Visa not the day before!

//Comment: Visa question. Not suitable for meeting with Immigration Commissioner.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Maestro
Added comment.

[Arkady]

Has the new commissioner agreed to answer these questions and will the responses be published on TV or is asking for questions just an academic exercise?

//Comment: Read first paragraph of OP. Wait and see.

I hope it works out for you and that, if it does, a transcript will be published here, unlike the law seminar with judges in Pattaya of which no trace remains for posterity except a closed thread.