UN receives Palestine's bid to become Member State

[flying]

Horse manure.

63% of Americans support Israel over the Palestinian Arabs and only something like 2% of Americans are Jews.

gallup.com/poll

Have a real vote not a poll & see.....Then you can make claims.

So far you can only claim x% of those who took or knew about the poll say xx

Till then the poll is closer to manure than reality

Edited September 25, 2011 by flying

[Ulysses G.]

Sorry, but I do not think that Obama is going to let me take a vote on the issue or I would be happy to.

However, Gallup Polls have a reputation for accuracy. I do not think that they only gave it to the folks at the local Jewish temple.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[chuckd]

I rather hope the Palestinians get statehood.

Once they do that they can stand on their own two feet and the US can stop funding their leadership.

I do not have the same ambivalence towards Israel as they are a proven ally. Palestine has proven to be no friend of the US, and that is who is paying the bills.

This should fire up the anti-Israeli side to a fare-three-well and it is not a troll post. The US can no longer afford to support a nation that does not reciprocate a small degree of loyalty. I feel the same way about Pakistan, Egypt, Jordan, China and every other country we are sending foreign aid to.

[bushwacker]

""Palestine is being reborn," Abbas told the UN General Assembly's annual general debate as Palestine, which currently has observer status at the UN, applies for full membership of the UN on the basis of the so-called June 4, 1967 borders."

What a joke! Hey guys, we want to be a recognized nation, and even though we have started wars and got our ass kicked, and we are somewhat of a terrorist state... we would like you to recognized our country based on how it looked 44 years ago. Maybe some of you were not born 44 years ago, but that is ok, because we have maps to show you what land was ours. Please keep in mind that if you do give us the requested status, we still will not recognize or support your actions as they relate to you know who! So how about .... can we please be the newest stick in your spokes?

Edited September 25, 2011 by metisdead
Large font reduced to normal font.

[Pakboong]

When Harry Truman recognized Israel in 1948, he lined through Jewish State. I am sure his objection was a first amendment one but none the less, he refused to recognize Israel as a Jewish state.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/truman_stateofisrael_2.jpg

Technically, Palestine does not have a status which allows them to recognize or reject an existing state. They must be politically equal which they are not at this point in time.

I suggest everyone actually READ the link you directed us to. It is clear that the document was edited. The first paragraph refers to a Jewish state. The second one edits out Jewish state and replaces with the NAME of the Jewish state, ISRAEL. Otherwise, Jewish state would have been mentioned twice, and the actual NAME of the new nation would not have been mentioned. To recognize a new nation, any editor would be sure to include the NAME of the new nation. Your assumption that there was some kind of American-centric imposition on recognizing the world's only Jewish state just based on the edit of that document is extremely doubtful. If Truman wanted to make it clear that he objected to the Jewish state part, he would have edited the Jewish state language from the first paragraph.

Your second point is simply absurd. Abbas is presenting himself as a legitimate authority of a Palestinian government (even though that is rather a lie when you consider Hamas is not on board). If the Palestinians could unify, they could produce an acceptable recognition proclamation for Israel. That they can't has never been their excuse anyway. That is fictional. They simply are not WILLING to accept an Israel that includes dropping their demand for right of return for Palestinians.

The history of the document at this link. The wording was changed. That is the only point I am making. Jewish State was lined through.

http://the-truth-voice.blogspot.com/2010/05/harry-trumans-recognition-of-state-of.html

Edited September 25, 2011 by Pakboong

[Steely Dan]

What a surprise. Abbas was happy to take whatever he can extract from the useful idiots club at the UN, but when it comes to bilateral talks he rejects them out of hand (yet again).

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1059334

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas strongly suggested Saturday that he would reject a peacemaking blueprint put forward by international mediators, saying he would not agree to any proposal that disregarded Palestinian conditions for the resumption of peace talks.

Of course the Palestinians expect to impose all sorts of demands before starting talks, yet if they were asked to cease hostilities they would ignore that as they have done for 63 years.

[flying]

Sorry, but I do not think that Obama is going to let me take a vote on the issue or I would be happy to.

However, Gallup Polls have a reputation for accuracy.

Agreed which is why I said in my previous post...

Obama should put it to an American citizen vote before committing to a jewish lobby that which is not likely the choice of the American people.

Fat chance of that happening with Obama though..

As for the infallibility of polls I will remind you of that next time a poll suggests something you disagree with.

In the meantime maybe we should do away with voting? Just take a poll & call it good?

At the end of the day the US reps's should back away.

The US talking out of two sides of its face.

Threatening sanctions & aid cutoffs if the Palestinians ask for a democratic vote.

It is lopsided & seen as the two faced farce it is worldwide.

Do the same to Israel the next time they thumb their noses at stopping the illegal settlements when asked by the US. Threaten Israel equally or stand back from the whole thing like we should.

Let the democratic process work as it should unhindered by threats.

What does the Americans gain from it?

What do they lose from it?

Not worth it.

Edited September 25, 2011 by flying

[flying]

What a surprise.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas strongly suggested Saturday that he would reject a peacemaking blueprint put forward by international mediators, saying he would not agree to any proposal that disregarded Palestinian conditions for the resumption of peace talks.

The demands are simple.....Stop what everyone (including the US) world wide calls illegal settlements ( nice word for invasion & outright theft)

Any court in the world would ask a criminal to stop stealing before any plea bargaining can start

[Ulysses G.]

What does the Americans gain from it?

What do they lose from it?

Israel is one of our biggest allies and a democracy. Islamic terrorists and Islamic dictatorships are some of our biggest enemies. It is not too hard to figure out.

[Steely Dan]

What a surprise.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas strongly suggested Saturday that he would reject a peacemaking blueprint put forward by international mediators, saying he would not agree to any proposal that disregarded Palestinian conditions for the resumption of peace talks.

The demands are simple.....Stop what everyone (including the US) world wide calls illegal settlements ( nice word for invasion & outright theft)

Any court in the world would ask a criminal to stop stealing before any plea bargaining can start

Any court in the world would ask a criminal to stop attacking people before any plea bargaining can start. Incidentally that's exactly what UN resolution 242 stated.

[Wallaby]

The Palestinian Arabs were violating a treaty that they signed with Israel by trying to do an end around negotiating with Israel about a state. Why wouldn't they walk out on Abbas?

How would they know unless they stayed to listen?

[up-country_sinclair]

I love these posts about Israel being such great ally of the US.

Considering that Israeli intelligence agencies are constantly spying and stealing US defense and intellectual property secrets, and openly defying the US on illegal settlements and many other issues, blowing up the US Liberty and killing 34 military personnel and injuring 170 others. Yet still lining up to take $3,000,000,000 in welfare every year.

With friends like these....

[Wallaby]

What a surprise.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas strongly suggested Saturday that he would reject a peacemaking blueprint put forward by international mediators, saying he would not agree to any proposal that disregarded Palestinian conditions for the resumption of peace talks.

The demands are simple.....Stop what everyone (including the US) world wide calls illegal settlements ( nice word for invasion & outright theft)

Any court in the world would ask a criminal to stop stealing before any plea bargaining can start

Any court in the world would ask a criminal to stop attacking people before any plea bargaining can start. Incidentally that's exactly what UN resolution 242 stated.

They are not at the UN to ask for plea bargaining, they are asking to be a recognised state. A completely different thing.

Using your analogy there is nothing wrong in asking for statehood at a UN vote, but they cannot ask for peace talks.

[Wallaby]

What does the Americans gain from it?

What do they lose from it?

Israel is one of our biggest allies and a democracy. Islamic terrorists and Islamic dictatorships are some of our biggest enemies. It is not too hard to figure out.

What does Israel give to the US? besides a migraine.

[Ulysses G.]

I love these posts about Israel being such great ally of the US.

If you do not think that the US is spying on Israel - and everyone else - you are very naive.

[Pakboong]

When Harry Truman recognized Israel in 1948, he lined through Jewish State. I am sure his objection was a first amendment one but none the less, he refused to recognize Israel as a Jewish state.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/truman_stateofisrael_2.jpg

Technically, Palestine does not have a status which allows them to recognize or reject an existing state. They must be politically equal which they are not at this point in time.

I suggest everyone actually READ the link you directed us to. It is clear that the document was edited. The first paragraph refers to a Jewish state. The second one edits out Jewish state and replaces with the NAME of the Jewish state, ISRAEL. Otherwise, Jewish state would have been mentioned twice, and the actual NAME of the new nation would not have been mentioned. To recognize a new nation, any editor would be sure to include the NAME of the new nation. Your assumption that there was some kind of American-centric imposition on recognizing the world's only Jewish state just based on the edit of that document is extremely doubtful. If Truman wanted to make it clear that he objected to the Jewish state part, he would have edited the Jewish state language from the first paragraph.

Your second point is simply absurd. Abbas is presenting himself as a legitimate authority of a Palestinian government (even though that is rather a lie when you consider Hamas is not on board). If the Palestinians could unify, they could produce an acceptable recognition proclamation for Israel. That they can't has never been their excuse anyway. That is fictional. They simply are not WILLING to accept an Israel that includes dropping their demand for right of return for Palestinians.

At the link below is the National Archives copy of the document. I have been aware of this document for many years, I am a bit surprised that you weren't.

http://www.archives.gov/global-pages/larger-image.html?i=/education/lessons/us-israel/images/recognition-press-release-l.jpg&c=/education/lessons/us-israel/images/recognition-press-release.caption.html

[Ulysses G.]

What does Israel give to the US? besides a migraine.

An ally in the Middle East that we understand, trust and who shares our values and that is just for starters.

[flying]

The demands are simple.....Stop what everyone (including the US) world wide calls illegal settlements ( nice word for invasion & outright theft)

Any court in the world would ask a criminal to stop stealing before any plea bargaining can start

Any court in the world would ask a criminal to stop attacking people before any plea bargaining can start. Incidentally that's exactly what UN resolution 242 stated.

Well yes the court of Israel may call it attacking another court may call it Palestine defending their property. Trying to chase the thieves off land they illegally invade/inhabit.

[Wallaby]

Obama should put it to an American citizen vote before committing to a jewish lobby that which is not likely the choice of the American people.

Horse manure.

63% of Americans support Israel over the Palestinian Arabs and only something like 2% of Americans are Jews.

http://www.gallup.co...ecord-high.aspx

He who lives his life believing polls.

A 2010 survey by the Brookings Institution found similar results: although 25 percent of Americans thought the United States should "lean toward Israel" in its efforts to resolve the conflict, a healthy 67 percent believed the United States should "lean toward neither side."

http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/06/03/do_the_american_people_support_the_special_relationship

Of course you won't agree with THAT poll, or the report, or the person that wrote it, right? Don't go shocking everyone by becoming less fanatical and more in line with the majority of the world.

[Ulysses G.]

If that is really the problem, maybe they should turn their attentions to Jordan as that was really meant to be the Palestian homeland.

[Wallaby]

What does Israel give to the US? besides a migraine.

An ally in the Middle East that we understand, trust and who shares our values and that is just for starters.

The US trusts and understands?

Why does Israel continue to steal land when the US and the worl has asked it not too?

Israel is not to be trusted, the world knows this. The US will eventually wake up to this fact.

[flying]

I love these posts about Israel being such great ally of the US.

Considering that Israeli intelligence agencies are constantly spying and stealing US defense and intellectual property secrets, and openly defying the US on illegal settlements and many other issues, blowing up the US Liberty and killing 34 military personnel and injuring 170 others. Yet still lining up to take $3,000,000,000 in welfare every year.

With friends like these....

No kidding with friends like these....

http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/245-2008-november/3845-congress-watch-a-conservative-estimate-of-total-direct-us-aid-to-israel-almost-114-billion.html

In return we get additional hatred from both the countries we suppress through backing Israel & basically no respect from Israel themselves.

Never did never will. If Israel will only thumb their noses at their benefactors then cut off the supply. Let them stand on their own two feet.

The US indirectly hampers any peace talks by siding with those that have zero respect for any suggestions of what is legal & what is blatant theft/expansion

If the US wants peace talks then step back from both sides. Not like we cannot use the aid at home where charity begins.

The US needs to step back & if not I wish the Arab League would. Let them pull out & start their own AUN & dictate who their oil goes to.

They need not worry about losing a customer such as the US. There will be little to no slack shortly. After all China pays with money they have not money they need to create out of thin air through selling treasuries to China as the US does or worse yet buying it themselves (FED Reserve )as they do these days with yet more IOU's.

Let the US then choose between facts of live & fantasy political contributions. Realize once & for all the contributions do not even add up to the free one way ride given.

Edited September 25, 2011 by flying

[Ulysses G.]

Don't go shocking everyone by becoming less fanatical and more in line with the majority of the world.

Some people would say that someone who contributes almost nothing but hateful bashing of Israel in almost every post on the subject might be considered a fanatic in his own right.

As far as your poll goes, read it more carefully. It does not prove your point. I'm not surprised that most Americans feel that negotiations should be fair, but they still much prefer Israel over the Palestinian Arabs by any measure as the Gallup poll proves.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Wallaby]

And another poll

The American people seem to be getting it. According to a poll released on Monday by the right-wing Israel Project, only 51 per cent of Americans oppose a unilateral Palestinian declaration of independence. Fifty four per cent favour a Palestinian state achieved through negotiations.

For those familiar with polling on matters relating to Israelis and Palestinians, the results are startling. The percentage of support for the Israeli position is usually in the high 70s, while support for the Palestinians is in the teens. Suddenly there is a major shift, and this in a poll sponsored by an organisation that clearly did not want to see findings like these.

http://mwcnews.net/focus/analysis/9977-palestine-statehood.html

Also of interest was this....

An important first step toward unity would be for Hamas to adhere to a full cease-fire with Israel starting now (the last thing the Palestinian Authority wants is to declare a state that is at war with Israel).

In fact, during the past week Hamas has been sending feelers to Israel about ending the violence between the two sides, which Israel has ignored.

It is not that Israel wants the strikes and counter-strikes to continue, it is that Netanyahu and company understand that a permanent cease-fire will foster the Palestinian unity necessary for a declaration of statehood.

The majority of the world, who don't just blindly accept everything Israel does, already knows this is the real reason Israel does not want Palestine to become a state. It is far too frightening for Israel to have to actually do the right thing.

[Wallaby]

Don't go shocking everyone by becoming less fanatical and more in line with the majority of the world.

Some people would say that someone who contributes almost nothing but hateful bashing of Israel in almost every post on the subject might be considered a fanatic in his own right.

As far as your poll goes, read it more carefully. It does not prove your point. I'm not surprised that most Americans feel that negotiations should be fair, but they still much prefer Israel over the Palestinian Arabs by any measure as the Gallup poll proves.

It is not hateful bashing when it is the truth.And the majority of the world agrees. One can't hide from that fact.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Wallaby

[Ulysses G.]

It is not hateful bashing when it is the truth.

That sounds like it is your opinion. It is not too late to attend a logic class (and world history might come in handy as well).

Edited September 25, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[maidu]

For starters, Gaza and West Bank have different leaders and tolerate each other at best - and this relationship could easily get worse.

Egyptians publicly proclaim their solidarity with Gaza residents, why don't they annex them? They share a border. Gaza can't stand on its own feet even in the best of times, and these aren't the best of times, particularly when some of their young men go shooting missiles at Israel every few days - and the Israelis respond like a ton of bricks. The reasoning is simple: Fire rockets at Israel (for whatever reason), and cause several Gaza neighborhoods (and some border tunnels) to be bombed. What is Gaza's Hamas doing to rein in the punks who are causing their neighborhoods to be bombed? Are we, the rest of the world, expecting things will magically get better because of the current grandstanding at the UN?

As for West Bank: Let them get annexed by Jordan, which they share a border with. And yes, make the Israeli settlers get out. Maybe split Jerusalem in two, like Berlin was split for several decades. BTW, what sort of thanks did Israel get by pulling all the Jews out of Gaza? Nothing, but more abuse and more bombs.

Egypt, Jordan and the other dune states constantly proclaim their solidarity with Palestinians, but they do scant little to tangibly back it up. Ok, Palestinians want to be sovereign, but they're already two territories which have two different groups of leaders, and both will be welfare states. Ok, in fairness, maybe West Bank could do some productive things, but Gaza will be forever be hobbled by its lack of resources and its overpopulation - not to mention it's unmitigated anger with Israelis.

[Wallaby]

It is not hateful bashing when it is the truth.

That sounds like it is your opinion. It is not too late to attend a logic class (and world history might come in handy as well).

No not my opinion, it is the view of the majority of the world. The majority of nations in the UN want a Palestinian State.

Jump up and down and spit the dummy out all you want, your view is a minority, live with it.

[Ulysses G.]

And another poll

The American people seem to be getting it.

Indeed. This is what your poll actually says:

According to the data, 51% of US voters oppose the unilateral declaration of a Palestinian state without a signed peace treaty with Israel; and 54% believe that without a peace agreement, the United States should not recognize a Palestinian state.and

The survey also found an increase in positive feelings toward Israel – and negative feelings toward the Palestinians

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4055635,00.html

I'm not sure why you are trying to spin it otherwise.

[Ulysses G.]

[/i]http://mwcnews.net/focus/analysis/9977-palestine-statehood.html

This has got to be joke. This is an "article" from some nutty Internet site that ignores the poll completely. This type of distortion of data is just plain desperate.

According to the poll, 61% of US voters said that Israel is making an effort for peace, while 53% believe the Palestinians are making “not much” or “no” effort.

“There is a clear perception that the Palestinians are not stepping up to the plate on working toward a real peace agreement.” Neil Newhouse, Republican partner of TIP’s bipartisan polling team, said.

Moreover, the Israel Project poll found that as political turmoil roils the Arab world, 58% of American voters think the United States should support Israel – a jump of seven percentage points since January.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Ulysses G.