Thai Student Nazi Dress-Up Day Causes Outrage

[F1fanatic]

Hollywood movies are in my native tongue and from my culture (sort of). So of course I watch them even though I find some English movies far better.

A bit like Thais perhaps who watch Hollywood movies, but prefer their own?

As far as I can make out Thai movies are basically 'ghost/terror' stories, in which I haven't the slightest interest - even if they put in sub-titles!

I suspect they look at our Hollywood movies the same way we look at their ghost movies - pure fantasy.

Edit - now The Pianist was a GREAT film, but I doubt it was seen by many Thais.

Edited September 29, 2011 by F1fanatic

[Nisa]

This is so simple, it has to be wrong but here goes.

Thai's did not have the benefit (if one can call it that) of well over 100 movies and TV shows from which to develop our level of understanding. It does seem ridiculous to to think of Movies as education but our understanding of the Nazis is not from school, it is from theatre. I have undergraduate history and of course High School History and do not recall what was mentioned about the Nazi's from any of that study. I do however recall many movies on the subject. I seriously doubt that any of the rest of us gained what we know from our school studies.

Imagine a Thai movie producer trying to cast a movie on the European theater in WW2. He would have trouble finding somebody who could grow Hitler's mustache much less an actor who could actually play the role. They had virtually no exposure and thus no interest in the subject. And seriously, no real reason to think they should.

I would think the number of Thais who watch the history channel on UBC would be quite small if any at all.

Yes but they haven't been stuck in the dark ages there have still been a number of acclaimed recent movies on the topic in mainstream theater including Brad Pitt in Inglorious basterds, Tom Cruise in Valkyrie, Jude Law in Enemy at the Gates, Schindlers List and most poignantly The pianist with Adrien Brody so it's not like there hasn't been any in recent modern history..

Personally, I found 'Inglorious basterds' a movie that should never have been made - it was that bad IMO.

I doubt many Thais saw any of them.

A number of these movies dealt little with educating people about the War or were simply fiction.

But the fact is none of them did well in the Box Office in Thailand. The Pianist and Enemy at The Gates don't even list any box office receipts. The others ( Valkyrie, Schindlers List and Inglourious Basterds) averaged, between the three, a total of $475,000 at the Box Office in Thailand. Yet, King Naresuan: Part Three (Thai Movie) grossed $6.7 Million and King Naresuan 4 (Thai Movie), grossed over $5 Million in 2 weeks this past August.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Nisa

[WarpSpeed]

Hollywood movies are in my native tongue and from my culture (sort of). So of course I watch them even though I find some English movies far better.

A bit like Thais perhaps who watch Hollywood movies, but prefer their own?

As far as I can make out Thai movies are basically 'ghost/terror' stories, in which I haven't the slightest interest - even if they put in sub-titles!

I suspect they look at our Hollywood movies the same way we look at their ghost movies - pure fantasy.

^&^^ yes and yes now the point is finally getting through..

Besides being in your native tongue as you noted I'd also suggest the quality of content, topics and presentation was more a reason to watch then that...Even the Thai's watch many Hollywood movies that have been translated and either dubbed in voices or subtitles so at best that's a straw man argument..

I agree on the Thai movies content which is another reason I have no interest either, they play so many here on cable it's annoying.. But that also speaks to the superstitious nature and intellect of the viewer which brings us back full circle to the topic at hand.....Narcissistic head in the sand attitude, easier to deny or claim/remain ignorant and say "I didn't know" then to face the reality..

Edited September 29, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[Berkshire]

Hollywood movies are in my native tongue and from my culture (sort of). So of course I watch them even though I find some English movies far better.

A bit like Thais perhaps who watch Hollywood movies, but prefer their own?

As far as I can make out Thai movies are basically 'ghost/terror' stories, in which I haven't the slightest interest - even if they put in sub-titles!

I suspect they look at our Hollywood movies the same way we look at their ghost movies - pure fantasy.

Edit - now The Pianist was a GREAT film, but I doubt it was seen by many Thais.

You should be a little more open to foreign films. I used to watch nothing but American films. Couldn't be bothered with foreign films, except possibly the Brits (Monty Python, afterall). But I've seen a few Thai films since. Some pretty bad, but some quite good. I try not to be such a prude. There's creativity in every culture if you give it a chance. One can make a good film on a shoestring budget, or make a horrible one spending a couple of hundred million. The Thai violent or ghost story stuff I can do without. But their comedies and romance can be pretty solid.

[MaxYakov]

Probably it is not Mr Bean but José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero the Prime Minister of Spain ?

Check the sieg heil hand of the proposed of Senor Zapatero's rendition.

[rubin]

Probably it is not Mr Bean but José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero the Prime Minister of Spain ?

Check the sieg heil hand of the proposed of Senor Zapatero's rendition.

oh yes, he's making devil's horn, hmmmm.

[Mosha]

My wife knows about Pol Pot. She has seen holocaust images, and asked "What happen?" She wasn't too interested when it didn't overtly affect her. I asked her why Thais hate Burmese. "They attack my country." That was the end of it. My wife's cousin is married to a Chinese Malay, and he told me Malaysia wanted to run a joint tourist venture about the war. Thailand was not interested he said.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Mosha

[WarpSpeed]

I asked her why Thais hate Burmese. "They attack my country." That was the end of it.

But no mention of hating Japanese for the same reason and even more recently and buying their products en mass ??

Edited September 29, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[Kananga]

This is so simple, it has to be wrong but here goes.

Thai's did not have the benefit (if one can call it that) of well over 100 movies and TV shows from which to develop our level of understanding. It does seem ridiculous to to think of Movies as education but our understanding of the Nazis is not from school, it is from theatre. I have undergraduate history and of course High School History and do not recall what was mentioned about the Nazi's from any of that study. I do however recall many movies on the subject. I seriously doubt that any of the rest of us gained what we know from our school studies.

Imagine a Thai movie producer trying to cast a movie on the European theater in WW2. He would have trouble finding somebody who could grow Hitler's mustache much less an actor who could actually play the role. They had virtually no exposure and thus no interest in the subject. And seriously, no real reason to think they should.

I would think the number of Thais who watch the history channel on UBC would be quite small if any at all.

Yes but they haven't been stuck in the dark ages there have still been a number of acclaimed recent movies on the topic in mainstream theater including Brad Pitt in Inglorious basterds, Tom Cruise in Valkyrie, Jude Law in Enemy at the Gates, Schindlers List and most poignantly The pianist with Adrien Brody so it's not like there hasn't been any in recent modern history..

Personally, I found 'Inglorious basterds' a movie that should never have been made - it was that bad IMO.

I doubt many Thais saw any of them.

A number of these movies dealt little with educating people about the War or were simply fiction.

But the fact is none of them did well in the Box Office in Thailand. The Pianist and Enemy at The Gates don't even list any box office receipts. The others ( Valkyrie, Schindlers List and Inglourious Basterds) averaged, between the three, a total of $475,000 at the Box Office in Thailand. Yet, King Naresuan: Part Three (Thai Movie) grossed $6.7 Million and King Naresuan 4 (Thai Movie), grossed over $5 Million in 2 weeks this past August.

Maybe in future historical films depicting WW2 could include ghosts and farting to garnish the Thai general public's attention?

[WarpSpeed]

Yes but they haven't been stuck in the dark ages there have still been a number of acclaimed recent movies on the topic in mainstream theater including Brad Pitt in Inglorious basterds, Tom Cruise in Valkyrie, Jude Law in Enemy at the Gates, Schindlers List and most poignantly The pianist with Adrien Brody so it's not like there hasn't been any in recent modern history..

Personally, I found 'Inglorious basterds' a movie that should never have been made - it was that bad IMO.

I doubt many Thais saw any of them.

A number of these movies dealt little with educating people about the War or were simply fiction.

But the fact is none of them did well in the Box Office in Thailand. The Pianist and Enemy at The Gates don't even list any box office receipts. The others ( Valkyrie, Schindlers List and Inglourious Basterds) averaged, between the three, a total of $475,000 at the Box Office in Thailand. Yet, King Naresuan: Part Three (Thai Movie) grossed $6.7 Million and King Naresuan 4 (Thai Movie), grossed over $5 Million in 2 weeks this past August.

Maybe in future historical films depicting WW2 could include ghosts and farting to garnish the Thai general public's attention?

Yes, maybe Jewish zombies? It's also not true that they were not relative or were fiction but even if so, so what? The content is still accurate in basis even if maybe the characters were possibly fictional.. I forgot another great one based on fact, Daniel Craig in Defiance.

[lannarebirth]

Personally, I found 'Inglorious basterds' a movie that should never have been made - it was that bad IMO.

I doubt many Thais saw any of them.

Well, most film critics including me totally disagree with you! Inglorious basterds is a great film by a great director. It did indeed play in Thai theaters and when I saw it here it was definitely doing well. However, it is NOT the film to watch for a historical background of WW2. It is purely entertainment. I sure am glad it's not you in charge of what movies get the green light.

http://rogerebert.su.../908199995/1023

http://www.rottentom...rious_basterds/

Fair enough. I was expressing my personal opinion that I thought it was rubbish.

I agree with you, however it is interesting that a bad movie can still showcase some extraordinary individual performances which Inglorious Basterds did.

[asiabill]

Thanks Mario for setting the record straight. The swastika was used in Europe for eons as a good luck, good life symbol before the Nazis got their hands on it. Go check out the Carlsberg brewery in Copenhagen, it is covered in swastikas - and all of them pre 1939.

I can remember seeing a Swastika badge on the shirt of a BTS station cashier/clerk a few months ago. You can see them on bags , T-shirts, Even on the painted company buses that are everywhere, Clearly WW2 was something missing from the ciriculum in Thailand

The swastika is a religious symbols, don't mix it up with the nazi swastika. See the link in my earlier post.

[Kananga]

Thanks Mario for setting the record straight. The swastika was used in Europe for eons as a good luck, good life symbol before the Nazis got their hands on it. Go check out the Carlsberg brewery in Copenhagen, it is covered in swastikas - and all of them pre 1939.

I can remember seeing a Swastika badge on the shirt of a BTS station cashier/clerk a few months ago. You can see them on bags , T-shirts, Even on the painted company buses that are everywhere, Clearly WW2 was something missing from the ciriculum in Thailand

The swastika is a religious symbols, don't mix it up with the nazi swastika. See the link in my earlier post.

We are all aware of that. We are also aware that the Nazis, and the Thai catholic school children for that matter did not have that in mind with their uniforms and displays.

[Nisa]

Thanks Mario for setting the record straight. The swastika was used in Europe for eons as a good luck, good life symbol before the Nazis got their hands on it. Go check out the Carlsberg brewery in Copenhagen, it is covered in swastikas - and all of them pre 1939.

I can remember seeing a Swastika badge on the shirt of a BTS station cashier/clerk a few months ago. You can see them on bags , T-shirts, Even on the painted company buses that are everywhere, Clearly WW2 was something missing from the ciriculum in Thailand

The swastika is a religious symbols, don't mix it up with the nazi swastika. See the link in my earlier post.

We are all aware of that. We are also aware that the Nazis, and the Thai catholic school children for that matter did not have that in mind with their uniforms and displays.

Just as any reasonable person knows that in the students minds they were not advocating Nazism.

[cowslip]

if proof were needed of Godwin's law this must be it!

[cowslip]

Thanks Mario for setting the record straight. The swastika was used in Europe for eons as a good luck, good life symbol before the Nazis got their hands on it. Go check out the Carlsberg brewery in Copenhagen, it is covered in swastikas - and all of them pre 1939.

I can remember seeing a Swastika badge on the shirt of a BTS station cashier/clerk a few months ago. You can see them on bags , T-shirts, Even on the painted company buses that are everywhere, Clearly WW2 was something missing from the ciriculum in Thailand

The swastika is a religious symbols, don't mix it up with the nazi swastika. See the link in my earlier post.

...and that is where the term "sawasdee Khap" originates too.

Edited September 29, 2011 by cowslip

[Kananga]

Thanks Mario for setting the record straight. The swastika was used in Europe for eons as a good luck, good life symbol before the Nazis got their hands on it. Go check out the Carlsberg brewery in Copenhagen, it is covered in swastikas - and all of them pre 1939.

The swastika is a religious symbols, don't mix it up with the nazi swastika. See the link in my earlier post.

We are all aware of that. We are also aware that the Nazis, and the Thai catholic school children for that matter did not have that in mind with their uniforms and displays.

Just as any reasonable person knows that in the students minds they were not advocating Nazism.

For the love of God! No one here is blaming the students, how many times do you need to be told this before it will sink in? However, the Catholic teachers of an International school should have realised the implications of their choice of display.

Their inability to do so has just highlighted the school lacks common sense, cultural awareness and a basic understanding of world changing events in the last 100 years.

Christ, half the nuns are probably old enough to have been in the dam_n war itself.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Kananga

[Nisa]

Personally, I found 'Inglorious basterds' a movie that should never have been made - it was that bad IMO.

I doubt many Thais saw any of them.

A number of these movies dealt little with educating people about the War or were simply fiction.

But the fact is none of them did well in the Box Office in Thailand. The Pianist and Enemy at The Gates don't even list any box office receipts. The others ( Valkyrie, Schindlers List and Inglourious Basterds) averaged, between the three, a total of $475,000 at the Box Office in Thailand. Yet, King Naresuan: Part Three (Thai Movie) grossed $6.7 Million and King Naresuan 4 (Thai Movie), grossed over $5 Million in 2 weeks this past August.

Maybe in future historical films depicting WW2 could include ghosts and farting to garnish the Thai general public's attention?

It's also not true that they were not relative or were fiction but even if so, so what? The content is still accurate in basis even if maybe the characters were possibly fictional.. I forgot another great one based on fact, Daniel Craig in Defiance.

Inglourious Basterds was not pure fiction???????? This and a number the other movies would do little to educate anybody to the horrors of WWII, especially those completely unfamiliar with the subject matter. Most westerners watching a character based Thai movie set in past times would also be unaware if the movie was based on fact or fiction or how much. The also might not even grasp why characters (such as in Inglourious Basterds) would be interested in killing another unknown but familiar faced person (Hitler) except he represented the enemy.

FYI, Defiance barely was released in Thailand and only did $132k at the box office here.

[witsawakorn]

OH MY GOD! I posted on this not being in the curriculum 6 months ago. No one new what a swastika was when i queried people who had received multiple masters degrees from upstanding Thai universities. The swastika looks like a Chinese good luck emblem was what i got. When i explained the holocaust to them they had never heard of such a thing.

The swastika has been around for thousands of years. It comes from Sanskrit, means good luck, and is often seen on and around Hindu, Buddhist and Jain temples in India and elsewhere in Asia. Are you sure that it is the Thais that need educating? Perhaps Eastern religions should be taught in Western schools then we wouldn't have all these arrogant foreigners complaining about Thailand's education system without even the most basic knowledge of what they are talking about The Nazi Party started using it in 1920 but didn't invent it. Maps in Taiwan, Korea and Japan use the swastika to denote the location of Temples

[Kananga]

OH MY GOD! I posted on this not being in the curriculum 6 months ago. No one new what a swastika was when i queried people who had received multiple masters degrees from upstanding Thai universities. The swastika looks like a Chinese good luck emblem was what i got. When i explained the holocaust to them they had never heard of such a thing.

The swastika has been around for thousands of years. It comes from Sanskrit, means good luck, and is often seen on and around Hindu, Buddhist and Jain temples in India and elsewhere in Asia. Are you sure that it is the Thais that need educating? Perhaps Eastern religions should be taught in Western schools then we wouldn't have all these arrogant foreigners complaining about Thailand's education system without even the most basic knowledge of what they are talking about The Nazi Party started using it in 1920 but didn't invent it. Maps in Taiwan, Korea and Japan use the swastika to denote the location of Temples

So, let me get this straight For anyone to discuss the failings of any education system is perceived by you as being arrogant? Do you not think that kids portraying Hitler and running around with toy guns to worldwide comdemnation is not a failing of the school in any way? Or do you seriously believe that when these kids were goosestepping round the playground in SS uniforms with Hitler moustaches and brandishing toy machine guns the swastikas on their left arms were there to promote good luck and religious harmony?

[Nisa]

The swastika is a religious symbols, don't mix it up with the nazi swastika. See the link in my earlier post.

We are all aware of that. We are also aware that the Nazis, and the Thai catholic school children for that matter did not have that in mind with their uniforms and displays.

Just as any reasonable person knows that in the students minds they were not advocating Nazism.

For the love of God! No one here is blaming the students, how many times do you need to be told this before it will sink in? However, the Catholic teachers of an International school should have realised the implications of their choice of display.

Their inability to do so has just highlighted the school lacks common sense, cultural awareness and a basic understanding of world changing events in the last 100 years.

Christ, half the nuns are probably old enough to have been in the dam_n war itself.

LMAO, you are the one who brought up what was or wasn't on the kid's minds.

Interesting that what you call an International School only developed an English program a couple years ago. (should I have prefaced this with "for the love of god" since it has been pointed out befrore)

Actually you haven't read this thread if you think nobody is blaming the students.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Nisa

[Bagwan]

OH MY GOD! I posted on this not being in the curriculum 6 months ago. No one new what a swastika was when i queried people who had received multiple masters degrees from upstanding Thai universities. The swastika looks like a Chinese good luck emblem was what i got. When i explained the holocaust to them they had never heard of such a thing.

The swastika has been around for thousands of years. It comes from Sanskrit, means good luck, and is often seen on and around Hindu, Buddhist and Jain temples in India and elsewhere in Asia. Are you sure that it is the Thais that need educating? Perhaps Eastern religions should be taught in Western schools then we wouldn't have all these arrogant foreigners complaining about Thailand's education system without even the most basic knowledge of what they are talking about The Nazi Party started using it in 1920 but didn't invent it. Maps in Taiwan, Korea and Japan use the swastika to denote the location of Temples

I think you will find that many farangs were perfectly aware of the origins of the swastika. Look at the pictures of the students efforts. If that doesn't bring the Nuremberg rallies to mind then you Sir, are like most Thais, ignorant of what has gone on and still goes on in the big wide world or totally insensitive to that. If it comes to it most Thais are ignorant of what goes on in their own country since their inputs are the lies and propaganda (aka BS) blasted at them on village broadcasting systems and a censored Press.

How does it make foreigners arrogant if they point out the obvious shortcomings of what passes for a system of education in Thailand? Would it ever enter your undeveloped mind that maybe such criticisms could have a positive effect - if you could get an arrogant Thai phu yai to listen for once.

[Kananga]

We are all aware of that. We are also aware that the Nazis, and the Thai catholic school children for that matter did not have that in mind with their uniforms and displays.

Just as any reasonable person knows that in the students minds they were not advocating Nazism.

For the love of God! No one here is blaming the students, how many times do you need to be told this before it will sink in? However, the Catholic teachers of an International school should have realised the implications of their choice of display.

Their inability to do so has just highlighted the school lacks common sense, cultural awareness and a basic understanding of world changing events in the last 100 years.

Christ, half the nuns are probably old enough to have been in the dam_n war itself.

LMAO, you are the one who brought up what was or wasn't on the kid's minds.

Interesting that what you call an International School only developed an English program a couple years ago. (should I have prefaced this with "for the love of god" since it has been pointed out befrore)

Actually you haven't read this thread if you think nobody is blaming the students.

You can laugh your ass off all you want. It just makes you come across as slightly demented. And yes I do call it an international school (by name anyway) because the school's own policy proudly claims...

Edited September 29, 2011 by metisdead
Thai script removed, this is an English language forum, ,English is the only acceptable language, except within the Thai language forum, where of course using Thai is allowed.

[cowslip]

which is why the

thai people say it every time they say hello

[cowslip]

Those who think that because they "mean no malice" or were not advocating Naziism have sadly and drastically missed the point.

Naziism and any totalitarian regimes find it a lot easier to take poet with a gullible and uneducated population and this is a terrible thing about it - that young Thais are totally "unvaccinated" against the guiles ploys of totalitarianism.

[Jingthing]

You can laugh your ass off all you want. It just makes you come across as slightly demented. And yes I do call it an international school (by name anyway) because the school's own policy proudly claims...

Strengthen the knowledge, integrity, dignity, love and serve the international education role. Discipline, responsibility, and live happily in society.

[Jingthing]

Those who think that because they "mean no malice" or were not advocating Naziism have sadly and drastically missed the point.

Naziism and any totalitarian regimes find it a lot easier to take poet with a gullible and uneducated population and this is a terrible thing about it - that young Thais are totally "unvaccinated" against the guiles ploys of totalitarianism.

That's a very good point on why the history of all kinds of global totalitarian regimes should be required study. Yes, most of the Hitler youth thought they were being good little Germans (not to mention the big fun they were having, parading about and all that), even those who turned in their own parents for anti-regime thought.

However, let's face it, the hardest history to teach accurately in Thailand is ... Thai history.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Jingthing

[Nisa]

Symbols and costumes only have power over those who choose to let them have power over them or have allowed others to convince them they should. It is absolutely ridiculous for anyone to get worked up over this when it is clear no malice was meant by the kids. School systems are horrible in many parts of the West but if people want to debate how much should be taught about Hitler & the Nazi's, whom Thailand was not directly effected by like so many western nations, then that is great but again something is off if people need to get all emotional, superior and condemning

I'm fairly confident that the Thais at the school are still having a difficult time with the over reaction by some when any reasonable person knows there was absolutely no intent on offending anyone and that this is Thailand and not a nation bombed by Germany or who saw their people slaughtered in death camps by the Nazis.

If only the same people up in arms about this would show the same kind of political correctness and knowledge when it comes to knowing and understanding Thai History and being sensitive to issues most Thai hold dear. Instead, there are many on this site that post condemning blanket remarks about Thais and Thailand in general that any Thai would find offence but the difference is that most Thais are wise enough to simply let it go and move on realizing the problem is with these posters and not themselves.

[uptheos]

What a sorry looking bunch - now it's more understandable.

Why is the barber in the picture?

[Kananga]

Symbols and costumes only have power over those who choose to let them have power over them or have allowed others to convince them they should. It is absolutely ridiculous for anyone to get worked up over this when it is clear no malice was meant by the kids. School systems are horrible in many parts of the West but if people want to debate how much should be taught about Hitler & the Nazi's, whom Thailand was not directly effected by like so many western nations, then that is great but again something is off if people need to get all emotional, superior and condemning

I'm fairly confident that the Thais at the school are still having a difficult time with the over reaction by some when any reasonable person knows there was absolutely no intent on offending anyone and that this is Thailand and not a nation bombed by Germany or who saw their people slaughtered in death camps by the Nazis.

If only the same people up in arms about this would show the same kind of political correctness and knowledge when it comes to knowing and understanding Thai History and being sensitive to issues most Thai hold dear. Instead, there are many on this site that post condemning blanket remarks about Thais and Thailand in general that any Thai would find offence but the difference is that most Thais are wise enough to simply let it go and move on realizing the problem is with these posters and not themselves.

It astounds me that the very basics of what's wrong with the school's actions are completely lost on you. Although if I am completely honest it astounds me less and less with each of your contributions I read, but honestly. There are apologists, Thai apologists and then a few miles down the road you seem to have set up your own one man blind excuse camp, complete with a massive sandbox to bury your head in.