Thai Student Nazi Dress-Up Day Causes Outrage

[bri1guy]

I dont think the swastikas are the issue, does anybody know if WW2 history is taught at all in Thai schools? I bet the answer is probably very little if any! Its a issue to be considered!

[Johnniey]

Thais make typical error of poor judgement due to lack of sensitivity, education, etc.

Thais rightly admonished for idiocy, insensitivity and crass behaviour.

Yet some foreigners continue to try to defend absolutely everything they do without question. It's like Stockholm Syndrome on steroids.

Why wouldn't they admire Hitler? They admire their own fascist dictator and Hitler's ally Phibun.

One thing the Nazis have in common with the Thais is their reinvention of history to propagate a nationalist sentiment among the populus.

Herr Oberkommando - I find it highly offensive that your username comes from the OKW, a part of the army in nazi germany during the WW2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberkommando_der_Wehrmacht

.Actually a lot more offensive as you are grown up.

Harldy surprising that you call Thai people "they" and you make sweeping generalisations about the Thai race, imagining that you are superior. Do you really think you are?

I assume that you are German - if one school did something wrong in Gemany would you say, "Germans"?

Edited October 1, 2011 by metisdead
Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes.

[Nisa]

Don't forget Britian's Prince Harry wore Nazi regalia to a night club a few years ago in the UK. Not sure if he was totally pissed ... or what?

How can we forget? It has been mentioned like 100 times already.

You have to admit that a drunk Harry wondering into a club dressed as a Nazi does add an interesting new (and inaccurate) visual to the incident

CD ... To clarify, he went to a "fancy dress" party and clearly went outside the fancy dress theme by donning Nazi attire. He didn't get too drunk only to find himself wondering the streets in his typical at home wardrobe (I hope).

Edited October 1, 2011 by Nisa

[Jingthing]

I dont think the swastikas are the issue, does anybody know if WW2 history is taught at all in Thai schools? I bet the answer is probably very little if any! Its a issue to be considered!

That's a good question. Many of us would be curious to see a typical Thai curriculum on the topic. I assume there are some political problems with teaching it in Thailand and keeping with the extreme nationalism here. After all, Thailand was on the losing side, Thailand was occupied (and their mythology says differently), and Thailand sported a ruthless fascist dictator. Many of us suspect and it has been documented somewhat on this thread that the more heinous, historically unique aspects of the Nazis are not generally taught in schools here. Also, I don't see any reason why negative aspects of the Allies shouldn't be taught either, such as the bombing of Dresden, the atomic attack on Japan, the shameful internment of Japanese Americans in the US. Educated students wouldn't have thought that parading as Nazis was a cool thing to do, that's the bottom line. It's a symptom. Of course, I wouldn't expect a curriculum here to be exactly like an American curriculum. It could be better. For example, as I mentioned before, in my case the Russian-German part of the conflict was minimized when in reality that one part of the conflict in itself was one of the biggest wars in history, probably for political reasons of the cold war of that time.

Edited October 1, 2011 by Jingthing

[473geo]

Do others really think the parade was satire? I do not. If it was, why didn't the school issue a statement to that effect?

Because they have zero idea what satire is?

Or certainly a different concept of it, merely a cultural difference, (much like losing face ? ) and it is now deepening to a chasm with the Wiesenthal-nyzers milking it for every satang.

This is the third Nazi fiasco in 5 years in Thailand. And I am not that well informed, perhaps many more. Would you attribute them all to a cultural difference? Since there is no other country who organizes Nazi parades as high school functions what kind of Thai cultural difference would you say causes this?

The Thai way of accepting that yesterday is over.......this is today......a quality I have often admired....a little flawed though it may be

[uptheos]

Don't forget Britian's Prince Harry wore Nazi regalia to a night club a few years ago in the UK. Not sure if he was totally pissed ... or what?

No, we haven't forgot it's been mentioned enough times on this thread already.

Edited October 1, 2011 by uptheos

[Jingthing]

The Thai way of accepting that yesterday is over.......this is today......a quality I have often admired....a little flawed though it may be

That's a fair point, but there is a balance to that. I really don't think most Thais would be happy that on top of the shame of the sex industry stigma their nation is becoming known worldwide as a country which periodically hosts school Nazi parades because the students are so ill educated they don't even know what that represents. Nazi outfits may look cool to many Thai people, but is being a laughingstock to the world so cool?

Edited October 1, 2011 by Jingthing

[kerryk]

Because they have zero idea what satire is?

Or certainly a different concept of it, merely a cultural difference, (much like losing face ? ) and it is now deepening to a chasm with the Wiesenthal-nyzers milking it for every satang.

This is the third Nazi fiasco in 5 years in Thailand. And I am not that well informed, perhaps many more. Would you attribute them all to a cultural difference? Since there is no other country who organizes Nazi parades as high school functions what kind of Thai cultural difference would you say causes this?

The Thai way of accepting that yesterday is over.......this is today......a quality I have often admired....a little flawed though it may be

You must have never had a Thai GF.

[Nisa]

I dont think the swastikas are the issue, does anybody know if WW2 history is taught at all in Thai schools? I bet the answer is probably very little if any! Its a issue to be considered!

That's a good question. Many of us would be curious to see a typical Thai curriculum on the topic. I assume there are some political problems with teaching it in Thailand and keeping with the extreme nationalism here. After all, Thailand was on the losing side, Thailand was occupied (and their mythology says differently), and Thailand sported a ruthless fascist dictator. Many of us suspect and it has been documented somewhat on this thread that the more heinous, historically unique aspects of the Nazis are not generally taught in schools here. Also, I don't see any reason why negative aspects of the Allies shouldn't be taught either, such as the bombing of Dresden, the atomic attack on Japan, the shameful internment of Japanese Americans in the US. Educated students wouldn't have thought that parading as Nazis was a cool thing to do, that's the bottom line. It's a symptom. Of course, I wouldn't expect a curriculum here to be exactly like an American curriculum. It could be better. For example, as I mentioned before, in my case the Russian-German part of the conflict was minimized when in reality that one part of the conflict in itself was one of the biggest wars in history, probably for political reasons of the cold war of that time.

No problem with your thoughts and opinions except that to say that Japan "occupied" Thailand is a bit deceptive. When one thinks of an occupying power they tend to think that the occupying power is in charge of the countries military, political leaders and people. This was simply no the case. Yes, it is true that the Japan army was in Thailand, it was by way of agreement by the Thai government ... regardless of motives.

As you say, Thailand was on the losing side which means they were Japan's allies. They were not conquered by Japan. It is a complicated issue because Thailand did try to play both sides but in terms of occupation by the Japanese .. you can also say the US occupied France.

Edited October 1, 2011 by Nisa

[uptheos]

Educated students wouldn't have thought that parading as Nazis was a cool thing to do, that's the bottom line.

Just about sums it up.

[Jingthing]

I kind of think Thailand was occupied by Japan.

Thailand was occupied by the Japanese during the Second World War until Japan's defeat in 1945.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2814.htm

[kerryk]

Thais donot understand satire. Satire is beyond their comprehension.

With this type of bigoted comment, one has to wonder if you really have any issue at all with the Nazis.

I get what you are saying. You are equating bigots with Nazis. Like judging a person by where they come from and the color of their skin, Issan for example. Nazis definitely were bigots but not all bigots are Nazis.

[MaxYakov]

The banner was certainly satire, but that wasn't what got anyone's attention. If there was any satire in the parade, it wasn't very evident to me. This audacity, as you put it, of the all-too-realistic parade is what triggered the 'zionist led PC outrage' [sic].

Was anyone here at the event or are we just going by select pictures released?

Is there even any eye witness statements as to what the kids did during their "parade" ?

Did they sing? Did they make speeches? What did they say?

I think judging by some of the stills, they baton twirled and performed hip dance routines.........similar the previous Pattaya parade.......very ominous

Some of the stills!? Can you share those with us or is this your first cut at re-writing history without supporting documentation? I don't know what you saw, but, in one case, I saw four students supporting a large Swastika banner at each corner as they walked. Kind of hard to baton-twirl and dance while doing that. That shot alone was enough to indicate to me that something in very poor taste was going down.

Of course, the published pictures were selected. Did you expect those that didn't support the story or grossly misrepresented the situation to be selected? I would love to see the videos on YouTube, but I fear the upload of any such would be blocked or withheld out of embarrassment by most.

So ... we'll have to settle for the YouTube Nazi-Themed Parade Sparks Outrage from CNN. The (apparent Hitler) baton twirler was there as she should have been and baton matched well with the uniform and Swastika, I'd say. Can't have a parade without the head of the parade and, fittingly, it should have been a caricature of Hitler.

I'll let you take the witness statements and cover any singing and speechifying. Can we trust you?

[Nisa]

Now we can all condemn Monty Python too based on pictures ... for that matter lets condemn all things British.

Edited October 1, 2011 by Nisa

[Nisa]

The Thai way of accepting that yesterday is over.......this is today......a quality I have often admired....a little flawed though it may be

That's a fair point, but there is a balance to that. I really don't think most Thais would be happy that on top of the shame of the sex industry stigma their nation is becoming known worldwide as a country which periodically hosts school Nazi parades because the students are so ill educated they don't even know what that represents. Nazi outfits may look cool to many Thai people, but is being a laughingstock to the world so cool?

I think you are putting way too much into this. This incident is not going to cause any harm to Thailand or its tourist industry. Lets not act as if crazy sh@t doesn't happen all over the world. There are MANY real Nazi types in the US and the US still has more people trying to get in than they can handle or want. I am not aware of anyone who visits a developing nations because they have a great education system. For becoming the laughing stock of the world, Thailand has done very well during the global melt down of the last few years compared to other countries.

[animatic]

If a countries beliefs are that the greatest war in history is not worth studying, then it says a lot, negatively, for the inward staring nature of the country as a whole. It is not an east vs. west, or stylistic argument, but a plain and simple exploration of right and wrong, that SHOULD transcend cultures and national boundaries and nationalist sentiments.

Who said it is not worth studying? They simply cover the war differently as they are not part of Europe and didn't face the same atrocities the Europe did. Over 60 Million people died in the war but there is only one number (6-Million) drilled into our head in the west when it comes to deaths. It is all perspective. Not sure too many kids in the west are being taught about Thailand's involvement in the war. In fact, WWII is covered less in pre-college in the US than the civil and revolutionary war. Most education regarding the offense of Nazi symbols comes from outside the classroom. My first lesson (;lecture) actually came from a sports coach who confiscated a German Iron Cross medal that my friend took from his grandmother and we were playing with at practice ..... wonder how much the coach got for that medal.

I also suspect in Japan that they don't teach their students that it was Japan that forced America to drop two atomic bombs on their cities killing hundreds of thousands of civilians. I also suspect that the Iraqis will also not have the same spin on the "Shock & Awe" bombing of Baghdad once they get back to the point of having a fully working education system. I'm also sure that Vietnam (who claims 2 Million Vietnamese Civilian deaths) doesn't come close to teaching their students about the war there as is done in the US.

Not putting too much emphasis on atrocities committed in other parts of the world, that don't directly impact a country, is a trait of just about every country.

There is currently an American Nazi party and many groups whose beliefs are aligned with those of the German Nazis. They do marches, get Nazi tattoos, waive banners, have meetings, put up web sites, publish books and so on ... So, I do find it a bit ridiculous to see this kind of outrage directed towards Nazi Costumes being used in a way that was by no means promoting Nazism or to disrespect those groups who suffered at the hands of the Nazis.

Perhaps you can point out the last time teachers in a Western school allowed their students to dress up like Nazis for a parade with guns and banners.

That would be completely contrary to the point being made that you appear to have completely missed.

Actually not at all.

[F1fanatic]

The Thai way of accepting that yesterday is over.......this is today......a quality I have often admired....a little flawed though it may be

That's a fair point, but there is a balance to that. I really don't think most Thais would be happy that on top of the shame of the sex industry stigma their nation is becoming known worldwide as a country which periodically hosts school Nazi parades because the students are so ill educated they don't even know what that represents. Nazi outfits may look cool to many Thai people, but is being a laughingstock to the world so cool?

I think you are putting way too much into this. This incident is not going to cause any harm to Thailand or its tourist industry. Lets not act as if crazy sh@t doesn't happen all over the world. There are MANY real Nazi types in the US and the US still has more people trying to get in than they can handle or want. I am not aware of anyone who visits a developing nations because they have a great education system. For becoming the laughing stock of the world, Thailand has done very well during the global melt down of the last few years compared to other countries.

I agree, but at least the nazi sympathisers in the rest of the world agree with nazi beliefs - abhorrent as they are to the rest of us.

Unfortunately I have little doubt the Thai students involved had absolutely no idea about nazis and how many innocent people they murdered.

Edit - Prince Harry is a spoilt upper class twit that has no idea about anything.

And, incidentally, the Germans I know care far more about WW2 than I do - they are still trying to make up for it whereas I think it is in the past, times have changed. Whilst being v aware that it WILL happen again - somewhere, sometime....

Edited October 1, 2011 by F1fanatic

[kerryk]

I kind of think Thailand was occupied by Japan.

Thailand was occupied by the Japanese during the Second World War until Japan's defeat in 1945.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2814.htm

Throughout the war the Japanese kept their promise to the Thais to respect the sovereignty and honor of Thailand. There was no Japanese control over the Thai army or the Thai administration. The two nations were equal partners. Thailand and the Japanese presence, 1941-45 By Thamsook Numnonda.

The occupation of Thailand by the Japanese never happened and is a re write of history to suit the powers that be.

Edited October 1, 2011 by kerryk

[Johnniey]

Now we can all condemn Monty Python too based on pictures ... for that matter lets condemn all things British.

Exactly Nisa.Well said.

[MaxYakov]

Thais donot understand satire. Satire is beyond their comprehension.

With this type of bigoted comment, one has to wonder if you really have any issue at all with the Nazis.

I get what you are saying. You are equating bigots with Nazis. Like judging a person by where they come from and the color of their skin, Issan for example. Nazis definitely were bigots but not all bigots are Nazis.

Yep, they were bigoted and intolerant not-so-nice folks. The leaders were barbaric murders and thieves, only a relatively minor character flaw compared to bigotry and intolerance. Illustrative of what can happen when such 'folks' get control of the government of a country with very creative and industrious people.

Thankfully, most countries can't support a modern-day Third Reich type effort. However, one can have a look at candidates for the next Third Reich by looking at Current Dictators .

There are still those that can and just might. Whether their leaders are bigoted or not seems academic to me when they're contemplating mass murder.

[Jingthing]

Exactly Nisa.Well said.

Comedy skits, satire, etc. about Nazis are a totally different thing. In fact, many wonder if the Germans had been able to view The Great Dictator by Charlie Chaplin that Hitler might not have risen as he did.

Edited October 1, 2011 by Jingthing

[SteeleJoe]

I tend to agree with the Israeli Embassy and believe there was no bad intent and this is a simply the result of the general Education Curriculum, in some parts of Asia, doesn't cover the war in Europe the same as in the West.

Absolutely - piss poor educational system and ignorance.

in this case ... at the hands of a farang institution...

A what? Are you referring to Sacred Heart?

...they are not part of Europe and didn't face the same atrocities the Europe did...

-- There were atrocities on a massive and horrific scale throughout Asia.

-- The bit about "only one number (6-Million) drilled into our head in the west" is not only, to my mind false, but the sort of thing that a certain odious type of people typically say (I shall avoid using a pejorative and all too often used label).

-- Sincere question: is it indeed a fact that WWII is covered less in pre-college in the US than the civil and revolutionary war? (Or is this just something you made up like the stuff education regarding the Vietnam War?).

-- Yes, there is a lunatic fringe that takes part in things like the American Nazi party and 'many groups whose beliefs are aligned with those of the German Nazis'. They do indeed do marches, get Nazi tattoos, waive banners, have meetings, put up web sites, publish books and so on -- all allowed by the constitution. They typically have to be guarded by police when they do their crap in public. ...and these Thai kids have virtually nothing in common with them.

Now if US kids at high school did as these Thai kids did, do you think there would be an outcry? dam_n right. No, I don't think that is an analogous situation (given that one would expect there to be more awareness and more sensitivity in the US) -- but it's a lot more analogous than talking about US Neo-Nazis, et al...

EDIT for format

Edited October 1, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[MaxYakov]

I kind of think Thailand was occupied by Japan.

Thailand was occupied by the Japanese during the Second World War until Japan's defeat in 1945.

http://www.state.gov...ei/bgn/2814.htm

I'd say it was occupied by its own military and bureaucratic elite even before the Japanese turned it into a freeway to Burma and Malaya with the alleged acquiescence of self-appointed Field Marshal Phibun (same link):

Although nominally a democracy with a constitutional monarchy after 1932, Thailand was ruled by a series of military governments interspersed with brief periods of democracy. Following the 1932 revolution that imposed constitutional limits on the monarchy, Thai politics was dominated for a half-century by the military and bureaucratic elite. Changes of government were effected primarily by means of a long series of mostly bloodless coups. Thailand was occupied by the Japanese during the Second World War until Japan's defeat in 1945.

It's easy to cherry-pick quotations and I certainly wouldn't trust the US State Department site as a source anyway. They forgot to mention the part about the military alliance between Thailand and Japan and the attempt to declare war on the US in 1942. Sure ... occupied. Most of Europe was genuinely occupied by Third Reich forces. How many of their legitimate governments declared war on the US?

I guess it depends on what one's definition of the word occupied is ...

Edited October 1, 2011 by MaxYakov

[F1fanatic]

Exactly Nisa.Well said.

Comedy skits, satire, etc. about Nazis are a totally different thing. In fact, many wonder if the Germans had been able to view The Great Dictator by Charlie Chaplin that Hitler might not have risen as he did.

Unfortunately (even now) many think the nazis had the right idea .

I've never seen The Great Dictator, but The Producers was a great movie that 'took the piss' out of nazis without being offensive to anyone.

[kerryk]

Now we can all condemn Monty Python too based on pictures ... for that matter lets condemn all things British.

Exactly Nisa.Well said.

So all the nun has to do is re write her letter to explain the students were modeling their sport day performance on Monty Python.

[maidu]

There are several angles to this story. One not mentioned, is the reaction generated from seeing symbols. Christians get frothed up when they see the number 666. Arabs fret when they see the Star of David, and perhaps Jews don't care for the crescent moon, and then there's the crucifiction, on and on. It relates to what offends certain people. Words offend, images offend, gestures offend. How about freeing your defense mechanism to the degree that nothing can offend you? Most people would say that's impossible. People are an odd species: We cling to things (images, symbols, words, gestures) which offend us. What other species does that?

I think a few rare people can get to a level of consciousness where they can lessen the gravity and emotional response to symbols. Somewhat similar to John Lennon's words to his "Imagine' song: "Imagine there's no countries, I wonder if you can. Nothing to live or die for, just brotherhood of man.........." I would ask T.Visa posters, to imagine there's no big deal about symbols. Then take a step further, and imagine how that might free up a person's consciousness - albeit just a tad.

[SteeleJoe]

I kind of think Thailand was occupied by Japan.

Thailand was occupied by the Japanese during the Second World War until Japan's defeat in 1945.

http://www.state.gov...ei/bgn/2814.htm

I'd say it was occupied by its own military and bureaucratic elite even before the Japanese turned it into a freeway to Burma and Malaya with the alleged acquiescence of self-appointed Field Marshal Phibun (same link):

Although nominally a democracy with a constitutional monarchy after 1932, Thailand was ruled by a series of military governments interspersed with brief periods of democracy. Following the 1932 revolution that imposed constitutional limits on the monarchy, Thai politics was dominated for a half-century by the military and bureaucratic elite. Changes of government were effected primarily by means of a long series of mostly bloodless coups. Thailand was occupied by the Japanese during the Second World War until Japan's defeat in 1945.

It's easy to check-pick quotations and I certainly wouldn't trust the US State Department site as a source anyway.They forgot to mention the part about the military alliance between Thailand and Japan and the attempt to declare war on the US in 1942. Sure ... occupied. Most of Europe was genuinely occupied by Third Reich forces. How many declared war on the US?

Indeed. It's almost as much an important part of the US narrative as the Thai to portray them as benign victims of the Japanese. (I -- and others -- have gone over this story so much in the last couple months that I won't again, but look at US intervention on Thailand's behalf against allies that wanted to punish them, post war alignment and the cold war etc).

[F1fanatic]

There are several angles to this story. One not mentioned, is the reaction generated from seeing symbols. Christians get frothed up when they see the number 666. Arabs fret when they see the Star of David, and perhaps Jews don't care for the crescent moon, and then there's the crucifiction, on and on. It relates to what offends certain people. Words offend, images offend, gestures offend. How about freeing your defense mechanism to the degree that nothing can offend you? Most people would say that's impossible. People are an odd species: We cling to things (images, symbols, words, gestures) which offend us. What other species does that?

I think a few rare people can get to a level of consciousness where they can lessen the gravity and emotional response to symbols. Somewhat similar to John Lennon's words to his "Imagine' song: "Imagine there's no countries, I wonder if you can. Nothing to live or die for, just brotherhood of man.........." I would ask T.Visa posters, to imagine there's no big deal about symbols. Then take a step further, and imagine how that might free up a person's consciousness - albeit just a tad.

Ummm, so what are you saying? The students were in a 'John Lennon, Imagine' mode and..... - trying to think of a way to finish to this sentence....

But I'm sure you're right, Lennon would have thought this was just a step towards utopia .

Edited October 1, 2011 by F1fanatic

[MaxYakov]

Now we can all condemn Monty Python too based on pictures ... for that matter lets condemn all things British.

Interesting point. These were/are talented, adult (legally, at least ... I don't know about mentally), professional entertainers. There's never an outraged Holocauster around when you need one.

Makes me wonder, though, how many of the Sacred Heart students are considering going professional after graduation. As a tour group perhaps? Spiffier costumes, some humor and some upbeat, Thaizied Wagner. They've already gotten a leg up (pardon the expression) with all the notoriety.

Edited October 1, 2011 by MaxYakov

[473geo]

Now we can all condemn Monty Python too based on pictures ... for that matter lets condemn all things British.

Exactly Nisa.Well said.

So all the nun has to do is re write her letter to explain the students were modeling their sport day performance on Monty Python.

No, all people have to do is accept there was no malice, that their personal interpretation of the parade may well be tainted by their predisposition, that the apology was not an explanation, but an attempt to diffuse the wrath of the 'outraged'......but that will simply not do for some....who appear to wish to dominate the way a people think and express themselves.....isn't that what the Nazi were about?

'