CIA Torture Chamber At Bangkok's Former Don Muang International Airport?

[cowslip]

It was widely reported several years ago that there was a large CIA secret jail in the north of Udon Thani province.

as the US built the roads and military installations around there it would not be surprising

[samjaidee]

"Belhaj was detained by the CIA in Thailand in 2004 following an MI6 tip-off, allegedly tortured, then flown to Tripoli, where he says he suffered years of abuse in one of Muammar Gaddafi's prisons," the Guardian reported.

I find the above quote from Belhaj somewhat strange. We are all well aware of what happened to the enemies of Gadaffi as the finding of a mass grave a couple of days ago shows us oh so plainly.

Yes I see no reason that Don Muang could have been a site for a covert detention and interrogation centre as it was in fact a military base first and foremost.

"MI6 had been able to tell the CIA of his whereabouts, after his associates informed British diplomats in Malaysia that he wished to claim asylum in the UK.

Now according to reports Belhaj wants to claim political asylum in the U.K. when it appears he is on the winning side in the Libyan conflict.

One is led to believe that that venerable bastion of the British press, 'The Guardian," has been sold a pup

He wanted to claim asylum in 2004, not now. Can't you read?

[cottonmouth]

Impossible to confirm? Well then what the F&^%$ are you doing reporting it? It's also impossible to confirm that I rule the world - wait, because I DON'T!!!!!

[batblaster]

interesting to know, why he thinks he was held at don muang.

but it's probable, because DM is an airforce airport and used to be shared by the civil aviation

I think is easy, in 2004 the other and actual airport wasn't opened.

[Roota]

23 days old, hardly news.

Yes, exactly the kind of hard-hitting, uh, reportage we have come to expect from Mr. Ehrlich. (I especially like how he describes his book 'Hello My Big Big Honey' as a work of 'investigative journalism'.)

[Thai at Heart]

Does it really make any difference exactly where it is. The CIA has already admitted there was an interrogation centre in Thailand.

[MefinCopter]

It was impossible to immediately confirm Abdel Hakim Belhaj's allegations of being "hung," "injected," and refrigerated with "ice" at the airport

I also remember the old smoking rooms at DM.

hanging up by your thumbs Thad ?? being forced to smoke ~~ How you keeping sir ?

[SteeleJoe]

"Belhaj was detained by the CIA in Thailand in 2004 following an MI6 tip-off, allegedly tortured, then flown to Tripoli, where he says he suffered years of abuse in one of Muammar Gaddafi's prisons," the Guardian reported.

I find the above quote from Belhaj somewhat strange. We are all well aware of what happened to the enemies of Gadaffi as the finding of a mass grave a couple of days ago shows us oh so plainly.

Yes I see no reason that Don Muang could have been a site for a covert detention and interrogation centre as it was in fact a military base first and foremost.

1) The discovery of mass graves in no way shape or form proves or even indicates that all enemies of Gaddafi were killed. In fact, that's an absurd idea.

2( What about the fact that Don Muang was Thai military base makes it less likely to have been used by the CIA?

[Thai at Heart]

interesting to know, why he thinks he was held at don muang.

but it's probable, because DM is an airforce airport and used to be shared by the civil aviation

Because DM was an airforce airport it's therefore probable. This is very big assumption.

It's a bit like say 'there was a murder, therefore it's probable everybody will be murdered'.

Well, yes, but on the basis that they have admitted that there was an active interrogation place somewhere in Thailand, it is one of the more likely places simply because of history, proximity and convenience. Could be one of the old bases up country or U Tapao also, but then, the supposed guys we have up country up here stand out like sore thumbs as electronics or telecommunications engineers.

I assume, since his flight landed at DM on route between Malaysia and London, that he would have some idea how far he was transported, certainly for the initial interogation. He could have been moved later after being put into an alleged coma though.

Unfortunately I don't think many will be surprised that this happenned - even the CIA statement seems to suggest that - including the beating of his pregnant wife.

It is extremely probable. However, where exactly it went on, is just guess work. Exactly where it happened inside Thailand is pretty irrelevant in my opinion.

[reggaebkk]

Why doesn't this surprise me?

When one can bomb his own cities to convince the public that war is necessary, why not bribe outside countries to allow them to torture in their airports?

After all USA have poured billions of dollars in Thailand, mainly as high profile bribes, since before the Vietnam war, so they kind of bought their right to do anything they want...

so...

I'm not surprised... actually I'd have been surprised if somebody had said that "CIA didn't have torture rooms in Thailand"...

so that's no real news is it?

[SteeleJoe]

It's not that interesting at all considering both British intelligence and the CIA have been backing the armed rebellion in Libya from the get go and most prominent rebels are either admitted Al Qaeda fighters or have been otherwise associated with western intelligence. Once you start looking for the links, you often find that the key figures are often linked somehow to western intelligence agencies; either working for them fighting an "enemy" (like Al Qaeda fighters under Osama Bin Laden fighting off the Sovjets)...

Most of them?

Al Qaeda didn't fight the Soviets per se. That was the Mujahideen -- something else entirely (though certainly some of the "Arab fighters" as they were known, did wind up in aQ); ObL was a relatively minor player in that war and aQ came about at the end of it for an entirely different purpose. There is no evidence of any but a rather tenuous and indirect link to western intelligence.

[h90]

old news...US secret torture prisons in Thailand are known since a long time.

New is that it should have happened in Don Muang

[SteeleJoe]

"Thai officials in this Buddhist-majority Southeast Asian country have consistently denied knowledge of any CIA secret prison." - what on earth is that supposed to imply?

Thailand is a country whose army quite happily burned its own university students alive in the '80s - why would they hesitate at torturing others - especially if they were paid?

The 80s?! Can you elaborate?

Or are you thinking of Thammasat in '76? If so, you are oversimplifying and for one thing I'm afraid it isn't quite as simple as the blame being entirely on the RTA. There were other entities and organizations -- and almost certainly ordinary citizens -- committing atrocities then and/or behind them.

But that stuff about "Buddhist majority" was indeed stupid. I'm fairly sure it was a manifestation of the absolutely typical misinterpretation and ignorant simplism one hears about Thais and Thailand all the the time (I've even seen it o this forum), 'Oh they are Buddhists -- they wouldn't do that.'

EDIT for typos

Edited September 28, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[hellodolly]

23 days old, hardly news.

Yes and it opens with may have happened.

Not Did happen.

I guess when you are out of news this is the kind of stuff to print. The public has no interest in the facts just what can they speculate on.

It may have happened in Government house.LOL

I see some posters are basing their opinion on happenings in the 70's and 80's.

Does any one ever wonder what it would be like to be judged today on what they did wrong 30 years ago. I think not.

Edited September 28, 2011 by hellodolly

[chirunr]

It was impossible to immediately confirm Abdel Hakim Belhaj's allegations of being "hung," "injected," and refrigerated with "ice" at the airport

I also remember the old smoking rooms at DM.

It this an attempt (reference to 'smoking rooms') in respect of a serious contribution to this thread.

I found Thaddeus' comment referring to the old smoking rooms as one of the most cogent of all the remarks in this thread. Being tortured a few times in these rooms caused me to give up a life-long addition to the weed. Who ever doubted the effectiveness of torture? Serious contribution? You bet it was!! JMHO.

Edited September 28, 2011 by chirunr

[anon467367354]

It was widely reported several years ago that there was a large CIA secret jail in the north of Udon Thani province.

I've heard this from many Thais. Supposedly a deal made between Taksin and Bush. The comment about the Qaddify death squads and mass murders I just don't buy.

[Misterwolf]

Ahhhhhhhhh the old yesterdays terrorist is suddenly todays freedom fighter.

Got to love how govts work.

[aaacorp]

War on Irak was for oil, war in Lybia is for oil.....nothing to do with freedom....

[thaipak]

Belhaj was detained by the CIA in Thailand in 2004 following an MI6 tip-off, allegedly tortured, then flown to Tripoli, where he says he suffered years of abuse in one of Muammar Gaddafi's prisons," the Guardian reported.

Does anyone else find it interesting that following the alleged tortue he is sent to Tripolli by the CIA who if you believe speculation were supporting Gadafi at that time and now this guy is a high up in the overthrow of Gadafi once again speculation says The CIA are supporters of the Gadafi overthrow. It all boils down to "if we the minions were to ever find out what the governments of the world are really up too it would blow our socks off.

It's not that interesting at all considering both British intelligence and the CIA have been backing the armed rebellion in Libya from the get go and most prominent rebels are either admitted Al Qaeda fighters or have been otherwise associated with western intelligence. Once you start looking for the links, you often find that the key figures are often linked somehow to western intelligence agencies; either working for them fighting an "enemy" (like Al Qaeda fighters under Osama Bin Laden fighting off the Sovjets) or being captured/hold/brainwashed/whatever and then let go... They're then considered an intelligence asset and can and often will be used again in the future.

http://landdestroyer...onfirms-al.html

http://www.telegraph...aeda-links.html

Latest in the list is Haqani net work in Afghanistan an ex-blue eyed net work of CIA now being targeted due to differances.

ALI

[JSL]

Cannot help but think of great quote from Ridley Scott movie uttered by Russel Crowe:

Your friend, who you must have had some intense cross-cultural eye contact with was a terrorist a-hole, who, at his apex, turned out to be a coward who wanted to go to Disneyland.

[rocknrollpoet]

Belhaj was detained by the CIA in Thailand in 2004 following an MI6 tip-off, allegedly tortured, then flown to Tripoli, where he says he suffered years of abuse in one of Muammar Gaddafi's prisons," the Guardian reported.

Does anyone else find it interesting that following the alleged tortue he is sent to Tripolli by the CIA who if you believe speculation were supporting Gadafi at that time and now this guy is a high up in the overthrow of Gadafi once again speculation says The CIA are supporters of the Gadafi overthrow. It all boils down to "if we the minions were to ever find out what the governments of the world are really up too it would blow our socks off.

I must agree with post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It would blow our socks off !!!

[mjnaus]

It's not that interesting at all considering both British intelligence and the CIA have been backing the armed rebellion in Libya from the get go and most prominent rebels are either admitted Al Qaeda fighters or have been otherwise associated with western intelligence. Once you start looking for the links, you often find that the key figures are often linked somehow to western intelligence agencies; either working for them fighting an "enemy" (like Al Qaeda fighters under Osama Bin Laden fighting off the Sovjets)...

Most of them?

Al Qaeda didn't fight the Soviets per se. That was the Mujahideen -- something else entirely (though certainly some of the "Arab fighters" as they were known, did wind up in aQ); ObL was a relatively minor player in that war and aQ came about at the end of it for an entirely different purpose. There is no evidence of any but a rather tenuous and indirect link to western intelligence.

Wow, you must have been on the Kool-Aid for a long time! Al Qaeda headman and popular US boogeyman Osama Bin Laden was trained by the CIA to fight the Russians. There is nothing speculative about this, it has been confirmed on many occasions by US government and intelligent officials. This is such common knowledge that I am not even going to bother providing links for this. Even the corporate established media outlets like CNN, Fox and BCC have made reports on this.

ObL was a relatively minor player in that war and aQ came about at the end of it for an entirely different purpose. There is no evidence of any but a rather tenuous and indirect link to western intelligence.

And where are your resources to back up this statement?

[tragickingdom]

So in a matter of fact the US and English regimes have no trouble doing business with torturers and criminals both in Thailand and Libya under Khadaffi. It is not surprising that each and every regime turned in the Arab Spring spits out both countries. Double standards is the name of the game.

[craigt3365]

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[teko]

Thailand the hub of 'state sponsored torture'

[MaiChai]

Well at least it was Don Muang.

Just imagine the torture it would have been if he had had to handle arriving and departing from Survanabhumi.

What makes you think Survanabhumi doesn't have similar facilities?

[LomSak27]

Did the US use thailand as part of its rendition effort, sure, big news in 04/05, now nothing more than a footnote in a book.

reggaebkk posted

After all USA have poured billions of dollars in Thailand, mainly as high profile bribes, since before the Vietnam war, so they kind of bought their right to do anything they want...

Briggsy, on Today, 11:48 , said:

It was widely reported several years ago that there was a large CIA secret jail in the north of Udon Thani province.

I sometimes wonder if you guys live in Thailand or live your life in brit tabloids.

First reg, in Thailand you don't buy the right to do anything in perpetuity, you always have to pay. Jr Bush did not like the then current PM because of post 9/11 comments and actions, but he did know he had the one thing that PM would understand ... and the deal was done.

A CIA secret prison north of Udorn ? Well you need to get the Leo swillers out of the bar and have them track it down, tell then its nothing but stories drunks tell one another.

Edited September 28, 2011 by LomSak27

[SteeleJoe]

Belhaj was detained by the CIA in Thailand in 2004 following an MI6 tip-off, allegedly tortured, then flown to Tripoli, where he says he suffered years of abuse in one of Muammar Gaddafi's prisons," the Guardian reported.

Does anyone else find it interesting that following the alleged tortue he is sent to Tripolli by the CIA who if you believe speculation were supporting Gadafi at that time and now this guy is a high up in the overthrow of Gadafi once again speculation says The CIA are supporters of the Gadafi overthrow. It all boils down to "if we the minions were to ever find out what the governments of the world are really up too it would blow our socks off.

It's not that interesting at all considering both British intelligence and the CIA have been backing the armed rebellion in Libya from the get go and most prominent rebels are either admitted Al Qaeda fighters or have been otherwise associated with western intelligence. Once you start looking for the links, you often find that the key figures are often linked somehow to western intelligence agencies; either working for them fighting an "enemy" (like Al Qaeda fighters under Osama Bin Laden fighting off the Sovjets) or being captured/hold/brainwashed/whatever and then let go... They're then considered an intelligence asset and can and often will be used again in the future.

anddestroyer...onfirms-al.html

http://www.telegraph...aeda-links.html

Latest in the list is Haqani net work in Afghanistan an ex-blue eyed net work of CIA now being targeted due to differances.

ALI

You might want to do a bit of research as well.

Not sure what "Blue-eyed network" means but it was never run nor belonged to the CIA; Maulvi Jaluddin Haqqani was indeed one of the beneficiaries of the CIA funding (via the Pakistanis) and that of the Saudis and other sponsors of the war against the Soviets. But he was never run by the CIA -- he was far too saavy and far too devoted to his own aims and interests.

And your description of the current situation is an odd and sort of amusing one.: "due to differences"? To the extent they are being targeted (many would argue they are not being targeted to the degree they should and have argued so for a very long time) it is primarily because the Haqqanis are attacking US associated installations and personnel (never mind that they are kidnapping, extorting, robbing and murdering at will -- doing the general warlord thing and doing it VERY well -- and running their own training camps for various unsavory types ).

EDIT: Jeez, cant believe I forgot to mention the minor "difference" of thier relatioship with the Taliban.

Edited September 28, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[Footloose1949]

Maybe the CIA have many other similar places world-wide, but we just don't notice them ... eg, while waiting in final departure lounges without any source of water or food, probably chained to those really 'nice' chairs ... explains why they are metal and bolted to the floor!

[MILT]

Sure this allegation will get the conspiracy theorists pumped up !

No No No we all believe in this agency is the top of the heap, nothing going on