PM Yingluck To Thai Govt Agencies: Prepare To Evacuate

[crazygreg44]

why did thai houses ever stop being built up on sticks ? seems like they built them that way for hundreds of years because they knew they lived in a flood plain and would get flooded every so often

did thai people just forget what their ancestors have known for hundreds of years ?

an interesting point indeed. Not only the prevalent construction style in the floodplains of Sukothai, Ayutthaya , Angthong and later Bangkok because of the ever happening flooding. Yet another reason plays a large part in the stilt-architecture - the protection from scorpions, venomenous snakes and other critters that haven't yet learned to use steps or ladders . . . . or would you sleep on a mattress spread out on the floor ?

[Bkkorupcountry]

Isn't it great that the floods, along with the subsequent deaths and major hardship that have been afflicted to so many people, have appeared at such a time so that we can use them to sit in our armchairs and point fingers at those in power.

The fact is that flooding, along with other natural catastrophes on this scale has caught many a government out in recent years. You simply can't prepare for it. Well, you can. If you want to throw a lot of money at a problem that may or may not happen. We've been caught out in the UK in recent years by floods, heavy snowfall, you name it....

Some people seem to think that governments have a magic wand that they can simply wave and make it all go away, and if they don't, they must somehow be at fault. They're either ill prepared or simply don't care about about the people who are affected. The truth is that it costs a lot of money to prepare for disasters such as this, and governments have to make decisions as to whether it's worth it or not. It's very easy, and dare I say, lazy, to wait for the event to happen and then sit there apportioning blame.

If floods on this scale happened frequently, it would be reasonable to ask why governments were ill prepared, but these recent floods are unprecedented in their scale. I'm sure there will always be things that governments could have done better in hindsight, and I'm sure that in hindsight, bad decisions may have been made, but right now people are dying, losing their homes and businesses, being uprooted and having to deal with things we only have nightmares about.

I just don't think it's helpful or constructive to sit in our armchairs pointing fingers right now. The immediate concern should be dealing with the immediate problem.

It's far too premature and disrespectful to the victims to be sitting there in our comfortable armchairs screaming "I told you so..." at whichever government from whatever country we wish to vent our spleen at.

Well the Dutch Government had a magic wand and they waved it very effectively. The UK hasn't done so badly either by their reaction to the horrendous flooding along the East Coast that occurred in early 1953. They also had the foresight to build the Thames barrier. Flooding in Thailand is an annual event and has been for hundreds of years. I blame successive Thai Governments for the current situation and the present bunch of morons for their tardy response to what to most sentient people saw coming several days ago.

At lest we do not have top put up with the fat swine now who once stated that there would be no flooding in Bangkok and when the waters rose angrily told reporters that what they saw wasn't floods but merely heavy rainfall. Shades of the Goon Show and Hellzapoppin!. I'm just waiting for some red shirt to suggest that Thaksin be brought back so that he can employ his Knut (Canute) like powers to relieve the situation - and continue with his Herculean task of sorting out Bangkok's traffic problems as promised.

If you remember 1953 you will probably also remember 1995 when the River Rhine flooded leaving much of Europe under water including Holland.

The only way the Dutch were able to prevent a massive catastrophe was to use millions of sandbags to raise the banks on their Dykes system, pretty much the same tactic as Thailand is employing.

Not sure about the metrics but I doubt even the Dutch system would be able to handle the amount of water Thailand is getting.

Anyway Bangkok is built on a flood plane so flooding has to be expected.

why did thai houses ever stop being built up on sticks ? seems like they built them that way for hundreds of years because they knew they lived in a flood plain and would get flooded every so often

did thai people just forget what their ancestors have known for hundreds of years ?

Western influence. Good..... or bad?

[Thai at Heart]

Western influence. Good..... or bad?

All very well and good, if it goes hand in hand with things such as planning laws and the such. Why are these moobhans often built where they are? Because the land floods, so it is cheap to buy.

As for a bit more western influence, I think a few Dutch hydrologists might be in demand in the next few years. Something really has to be done when millions of people and industry can be inundated with apparently so little effort made to prevent it. They could and should have been reinforcing levees and sandbagging for the last 2 months. Rains will be more or less depending on the average, however, the largely unrestricted construction that continues, puts a different place in danger year after year, flows are changed, and run off goes to different places because some person is allowed to put up a concrete edifice with no thought for the future.

To hear the apparent shock that the governer of Bangkok doesn't know where is likely to be flooded, and the government buying up sand bags by the million right now, shows that the plans in place are inadequate. What have the irrigation department been doing for the last 10 years. Yes water fell out of the sky, and everyone has sat and watched it slowly move its way to Bangkok and now it is a panic. Saving Bangkok by trying to flood the middle of the country is far too simplistic an outlook, and is largely the same idea that has been tried for the last 50 years. Well, now the result of half assed plans for many years are coming home to roost. Of course, saving a once in 100 years flood is hard, but it isn't practical to have a plan on paper that was written 50 years ago.

[LivinLOS]

Flooding has been on the cards for quite some time but it only had just got the attention of the government. Shame on the administration.

But.. They solved it ??

[Bkkorupcountry]

Western influence. Good..... or bad?

All very well and good, if it goes hand in hand with things such as planning laws and the such. Why are these moobhans often built where they are? Because the land floods, so it is cheap to buy.

As for a bit more western influence, I think a few Dutch hydrologists might be in demand in the next few years. Something really has to be done when millions of people and industry can be inundated with apparently so little effort made to prevent it. They could and should have been reinforcing levees and sandbagging for the last 2 months. Rains will be more or less depending on the average, however, the largely unrestricted construction that continues, puts a different place in danger year after year, flows are changed, and run off goes to different places because some person is allowed to put up a concrete edifice with no thought for the future.

To hear the apparent shock that the governer of Bangkok doesn't know where is likely to be flooded, and the government buying up sand bags by the million right now, shows that the plans in place are inadequate. What have the irrigation department been doing for the last 10 years. Yes water fell out of the sky, and everyone has sat and watched it slowly move its way to Bangkok and now it is a panic. Saving Bangkok by trying to flood the middle of the country is far too simplistic an outlook, and is largely the same idea that has been tried for the last 50 years. Well, now the result of half assed plans for many years are coming home to roost. Of course, saving a once in 100 years flood is hard, but it isn't practical to have a plan on paper that was written 50 years ago.

I'm no expert in these matters but I do believe that the issues that face Holland and Bangkok are quite different. Holland (and specifically Amsterdam) is below sea level and faces threat from rising sea levels. Bangkok is facing a threat from natural precipitation that falls in the north and north east and is currently making it's way here. No doubt that hydrologists would be able to propose solutions to counter such threats in the future but I would venture that the crisis is a result of no hydrological planning over many past decades, in pursuit of wealth, a capitalist (and fundamentally western) mindset.

In Isaan, even in relatively high lying areas, lots of areas are currently facing very high water levels as has not been seen for many years. This could well be a consequence of development further down south in areas like Bangkok but is ALSO the result of extremely wet weather. A lot of planning and money would have to be invested over many years in order to overcome the situation but it is unlikely that any government would be willing to undertake such a vast project, given that the "life expectancy" of any government is very limited, thanks in a large part to "democracy" (the ideal by which the large majority of vocal TV posters live by).

[SanSaiExPat]

Flooding has been on the cards for quite some time but it only had just got the attention of the government. Shame on the administration.

This administration? Really? They just took over. Give them a freaking chance. What about the previous administration that did nothing about improving the damns and flood gates and irrigation system for their whole tenure?

[SanSaiExPat]

I don't want to play politics with the flooding, but some facts are just facts...

--Even when a government changes, most of the staff and career civil servants in the various ministries stay the same.... Only the top level ministers and leadership changes... If this government has been slow to respond to the flooding, it's the current leaders that should be blamed....not the fact that there was a recent change of leadership.

--Although the danger of flooding is just now heading toward Bangkok, this has been a slow-motion crisis that's been playing out upcountry for weeks.... For weeks, every night on TV, I've been watching video of areas upcountry being inundated. For the government just lately to start doing things like getting the military involved and implementing a supposed unified command and coordination function, makes one wonder where their attention has been for all these past weeks... not on the floods, it would seem.

--For a government that supposedly was elected by the "common people" upcountry and with a mandate to advance and protect their interests, those same politicians seem to have been remarkably blind and inept at doing much of anything substantial to lessen the damage of the floods or do much, until lately, to assist those being inundated.

But then again, the new government certainly has been busy in its early days in office... phone and video calls to Dubai... reshuffling and removing various public officials... moves about amnesty and changing the constitution... networks of Red Shirt villages.... I guess it's understandable how they might not have noticed that a huge flood was coming their way.

Ooops... I forgot... The science minister does have his plan about putting 1000 boats into the Chao Phraya river to somehow whoosh all the floodwaters out into the ocean...

Scratch what I wrote above.... they most certain do know what they're doing...

Maybe you could explain your logic a little more clearly regarding the assertion in your first sentence. "...most of the staff and career civil servants in the various ministries stay the same.... Only the top level ministers and leadership changes..." Therefore "...the current leaders that should be blamed." How exactly does that follow? Abhisit had three years to do something about Thailand's dam's, levees, and irrigation systems. He was briefed on the potential problems and risks and did nothing. His government, (Which did control the purse strings.) allocated no additional funds to alleviate the potential problem even when they were warned by "high level civil servants". That Thailand was as unprepared as they were and are for this rests squarely on his government's shoulders. However, I doubt any government, Red or Yellow could have foreseen flooding on this scale and of this magnitude. For you to turn this into a political blame game is not only unfair but disingenuous.

[MikeyIdea]

Flooding has been on the cards for quite some time but it only had just got the attention of the government. Shame on the administration.

Try to be a bit fairer.

They hyave only been in power a couple of months.

If you had been able to read and understand Thai, then you would have been able to check the websites from different Thai agencies showing detailed information about water level and flow in all major rivers and khlongs

Check the Thai channels on TV and you might learn something about what information is available before posting next time

[bkkjames]

Well Mike: I watch the Thai news and mostly it's this: live coverage from Ayutthaya and updates about yesterdays happenings - with the usual fixation of numbers in this case how much the water has risen in flooded areas.

Very little on where they expect flooding in Bangkok. Very little in terms of interviews with somebody of authority who is willing to tell people what they want to know = where / when will the flooding hit next.

[MikeyIdea]

The problem with flooding is well known and well researched. There has been nurerous projects sponsored by our king throughout the years. All the information necessary is out there and contrarary to what eg Phil believe, the Thai PHDs crunching the numbers are actually very knowledgeable

This is a political problem. It will take at least 10 years to address and cost hundreds of billions of baht in total - That's the problem. Most prime ministers don't want to spend billions and billions on what another prime minister will reap the benefit from in more than 10 years time

[bkkjames]

The problem with flooding is well known and well researched. There has been nurerous projects sponsored by our king throughout the years. All the information necessary is out there and contrarary to what eg Phil believe, the Thai PHDs crunching the numbers are actually very knowledgeable

This is a political problem. It will take at least 10 years to address and cost hundreds of billions of baht in total - That's the problem. Most prime ministers don't want to spend billions and billions on what another prime minister will reap the benefit from in more than 10 years time

I understand the govt of the day doesn't want to invest in the future - however how many Billions in current damage (and the subsequent free loans, compensation and other add-ons post flooding) will it take to stop with the band-aid solutions?

Last year it was severe droughts, this year the opposite, next year who knows perhaps both at the same time.

[MikeyIdea]

Well Mike: I watch the Thai news and mostly it's this: live coverage from Ayutthaya and updates about yesterdays happenings - with the usual fixation of numbers in this case how much the water has risen in flooded areas.

Very little on where they expect flooding in Bangkok. Very little in terms of interviews with somebody of authority who is willing to tell people what they want to know = where / when will the flooding hit next.

Yes, most news coverage is light stuff that sell well. Most is also from areas already hit. I totally agree with you

I watched news between 11 and midnight yesterday, can't remember which channel that had it but it sure wasn't channel 7. They ran a pretty good story, including telling that Lam Lukka, Rangsit, Minburi and Lat Krabang could very well see pretty heavy flooding. They listed out canals that possibly could bring flooding to Bangkok too, Saen Saep will rise, clear info on that. I was surprised to hear Lat Prao mentioned even

Your above post

however how many Billions in current damage (and the subsequent free loans, compensation and other add-ons post flooding) will it take to stop with the band-aid solutions?

I don't think it's about money - As must as it will take to stay in power...

- When will George Bush go into Iraq? I tell you, just before he drops below 50%, that's when he will go...

Jean Leno would have been in heaven in Thailand, also after he had been killed. This does not apply only to Thailand, it's just more here, as always

Watch Minburi, Lat Krabang, Rangsit, Chachoensao, Latprao 12 to 16 this month...

Edited October 11, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[billd766]

Flooding has been on the cards for quite some time but it only had just got the attention of the government. Shame on the administration.

This administration? Really? They just took over. Give them a freaking chance. What about the previous administration that did nothing about improving the damns and flood gates and irrigation system for their whole tenure?

And the two proxy Thaksin governments before that, the military one, 2 Thaksins before that, Democrat et al.

When this is over they should be clearing every canal and dredging it, digging extra canals where necessary and possible, upgrading the Weather Bureaus computers, creating one agency to deal with it all and not the 5 or more that are playing now (and passing the buck).

I am now 67 and I cannot see it happening in my lifetime though my son is only 7 and it might happen in his.

The main problem as I see it is that money and politics come in waaay above people (especially poor people).

[Arkady]

The problem with flooding is well known and well researched. There has been nurerous projects sponsored by our king throughout the years. All the information necessary is out there and contrarary to what eg Phil believe, the Thai PHDs crunching the numbers are actually very knowledgeable

This is a political problem. It will take at least 10 years to address and cost hundreds of billions of baht in total - That's the problem. Most prime ministers don't want to spend billions and billions on what another prime minister will reap the benefit from in more than 10 years time

I understand the govt of the day doesn't want to invest in the future - however how many Billions in current damage (and the subsequent free loans, compensation and other add-ons post flooding) will it take to stop with the band-aid solutions?

Last year it was severe droughts, this year the opposite, next year who knows perhaps both at the same time.

Correction. Last year it was severe droughts and severe flooding. Look up those old news reports saying that Thailand was having the worst floods in 30 years last year and that Bangkok was preparing to be inundated at the end of October. Plus ca change?

After this it will be a great opportunity to start a huge investment in flood prevention. This needs to include protecting Bangkok from its sinking and rising seawater problem. Without that it will be under 1.5 metres of sea water for much of the year, even if the flood problem is solved.

[Tiffer]

Flooding has been on the cards for quite some time but it only had just got the attention of the government. Shame on the administration.

This administration? Really? They just took over. Give them a freaking chance. What about the previous administration that did nothing about improving the damns and flood gates and irrigation system for their whole tenure?

And the two proxy Thaksin governments before that, the military one, 2 Thaksins before that, Democrat et al.

When this is over they should be clearing every canal and dredging it, digging extra canals where necessary and possible, upgrading the Weather Bureaus computers, creating one agency to deal with it all and not the 5 or more that are playing now (and passing the buck).

I am now 67 and I cannot see it happening in my lifetime though my son is only 7 and it might happen in his.

The main problem as I see it is that money and politics come in waaay above people (especially poor people).

Well that seems to encapsulate the whole issue. It is not this or that administration but successive administrations. Just like home.

I personally have no idea what the solution is or even if there is one, but I do know that I am not in a postion to influence any change.

I am sure the powers that be know what needs to be done.

[BlackJack]

OK i got it now

can the government please send the aid to me now as I have 6 people from Lop Buri that I am housing and feeding

thanks

food parcels, money, any thing will help

[longtom]

The problem with flooding is well known and well researched. There has been nurerous projects sponsored by our king throughout the years. All the information necessary is out there and contrarary to what eg Phil believe, the Thai PHDs crunching the numbers are actually very knowledgeable

This is a political problem. It will take at least 10 years to address and cost hundreds of billions of baht in total - That's the problem. Most prime ministers don't want to spend billions and billions on what another prime minister will reap the benefit from in more than 10 years time

All it ever took in Thailand to start a project was to allow a big enough skimm-off for the politicians. Should be very easy with this kind of project, so where's the problem?

[Tiffer]

The problem with flooding is well known and well researched. There has been nurerous projects sponsored by our king throughout the years. All the information necessary is out there and contrarary to what eg Phil believe, the Thai PHDs crunching the numbers are actually very knowledgeable

This is a political problem. It will take at least 10 years to address and cost hundreds of billions of baht in total - That's the problem. Most prime ministers don't want to spend billions and billions on what another prime minister will reap the benefit from in more than 10 years time

All it ever took in Thailand to start a project was to allow a big enough skimm-off for the politicians. Should be very easy with this kind of project, so where's the problem?

Nothing like faith in the system...

[ThaiKiwi]

Well Mike: I watch the Thai news and mostly it's this: live coverage from Ayutthaya and updates about yesterdays happenings - with the usual fixation of numbers in this case how much the water has risen in flooded areas.

Very little on where they expect flooding in Bangkok. Very little in terms of interviews with somebody of authority who is willing to tell people what they want to know = where / when will the flooding hit next.

But you notice the majority of Bangkok is still free of flooding. It is only the areas that are outside of the flood protection area that has been hit. The flood water from the north is already here in Bangkok and passing right on through to the sea without much of a problem for the most of Bangkok residents. There are a few local exceptions when you get heavy local rain but it is generally pumped away quite quickly.

Ayutthaya is only about 100 km away and it has been flooding there for weeks. There has been a lot of water pass through Ayutthaya and it has already reached the sea. It is true there is still more to come but it still will not cause a big problem in Bangkok until it meets with the high October tides.

Yesterday I was in Chachengsao and they told me it would flood a little today as they are sending water out from Bangkok along Klong Sansap. Today I was there again and true enough, in the low lying areas along the river there was flood water coming out to the middle of the road.

If there were not a lot of people with high expertise working behind the scenes presently and also over the past decades, the city would already be under water.

[patjem]

Flooding has been on the cards for quite some time but it only had just got the attention of the government. Shame on the administration.

This administration? Really? They just took over. Give them a freaking chance. What about the previous administration that did nothing about improving the damns and flood gates and irrigation system for their whole tenure?

I think your spell-checker chose the wrong damned dams.