U.S. arrests man in connection with plot to kill Saudi ambassador

[Ulysses G.]

You left of the next sentence which helps keep the point in context. I don't mind you carving up my post but please keep it in context if at all possible.

The point I am making is about that particular sentence.

[GentlemanJim]

So, do we stand by and allow yet another fabrication to take our young men and women back in harms way, to carry out the whims of crooked people, devoid of a moral compass. Do we just accept and swallow the utter BS that is force fed to the media who then regurgitate it to gullible trusting people?

So, the media and US government are lying, but the Pakastani government and a guy who was fired from the CIA for mental issues are telling the truth.

It is all back to Motive Ulysees....Motive.

[up-country_sinclair]

a guy who was fired from the CIA for mental issues

This is categorically untrue.

[Pakboong]

So, do we stand by and allow yet another fabrication to take our young men and women back in harms way, to carry out the whims of crooked people, devoid of a moral compass. Do we just accept and swallow the utter BS that is force fed to the media who then regurgitate it to gullible trusting people?

So, the media and US government are lying, but the Pakastani government and a guy who was fired from the CIA for mental issues are telling the truth.

It is certainly possible that the guy is a chronic liar or mentally unstable. Why would Fox News interview him? The simple fact that MSM have presented this discourse to the official story that makes me suspect something else is up. This can't be all of it. Far too simple and the White House would never let out this much contesting information from the MSM if it was real. They often soften up the opposition with creating doubt. For example,you wouldn't interview David Duke unless you wanted to discredit the whole affair. Depends on the actual intended purpose which has to be classified. It could be as simple as damage control based on initial public reaction. It could be a much bigger plan that has yet to be sprung. We will likely never know.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Pakboong

[GentlemanJim]

a guy who was fired from the CIA for mental issues

This is categorically untrue.

Absolutely correct up-country. Scheuer resigned of his own accord. It is often the tactic of such staunch Government supporters as Ulysees to falsely try and discredit people.

[Ulysses G.]

a guy who was fired from the CIA for mental issues

This is categorically untrue.

He was fired from the Bin Ladin Unit for creating disturbaces within the unit and with the FBI and and for being "mentally burned out".

Edited October 18, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[GentlemanJim]

a guy who was fired from the CIA for mental issues

This is categorically untrue.

He was fired from the Bin Ladin Unit for creating disturbaces within the unit and with the FBI and and for being "mentally burned out".

He didn't create 'disturbances', he wrote the book 'Imperial Hubris'. He wasn't fired, he resigned. Where are your sources that say he was got rid of for mental issues? Whether he had burnout or not (hardly surprising in his job at the time), he is a perfectly rational, lucid, eloquent speaker now. So whats the problem with him?

Edited October 18, 2011 by GentlemanJim

[flying]

He was fired from the Bin Ladin Unit for creating disturbaces within the unit and with the FBI and and for being "mentally burned out".

His only fault was telling the truth.

TPTB do not like it when the head man of the division tells them what they are doing

is counter productive to supposed counter terrorism. It was in fact as he stated creating more terrorist than reducing.

Add to that his speaking out against Israel & Saudi & there you have it....He had to go.

He has also said this about Iran......

"The Iranians are no threat to the United States unless we provoke them. They may be a threat to the Israelis. They‘re not a threat to the United States

He was also let go from the Jamestown Foundation for basically saying the same.

In February 2009, Scheuer was terminated from his position as a senior fellow of The Jamestown Foundation. Scheuer has written that he was fired by the organization for stating that "the current state of the U.S.-Israel relationship undermined U.S. national security."

This is what happens when folks tell the truth.

If he was mentally burned out then how did he go on to achieve what he did after leaving the CIA?

Edited October 18, 2011 by flying

[Steely Dan]

So, do we stand by and allow yet another fabrication to take our young men and women back in harms way, to carry out the whims of crooked people, devoid of a moral compass. Do we just accept and swallow the utter BS that is force fed to the media who then regurgitate it to gullible trusting people? I am glad I am in Thailand, because it may take a little longer to affect me and my family when the sh*t does eventually hit the fan.....and it will. Regardless of what anyone thinks of the Government, Iranian people are good, hospitable people who love their land. Do you have any idea how many will die if we just accept the desire of the Politicians and the Defence corporates who are ONLY in this for money. There are some people gunning for a fight, but it's the US/Israel and Saudi. It is pathetic we accept it.

Moral compass, excuse me I thought for a second you were talking about Iran. I see an indecent haste amongst certain posters to believe the government of Iran, with it's sterling human rights and press freedom records over the U.S, naturally with added tinfoil hat Zionist conspiracy theories thrown in for good measure. I repeat, Iran has acted in provocative ways and openly armed terrorists all over the world. We have the Hizbollah virtual takeover of Lebanon, supplying arms to terrorists in Afghanistan, almost weekly threats to destroy Israel, threats to station their navy outside U.S waters, supporting insurrection against the governments of Bahrain and Saudi Arabia, sending revolutionary guards to advise Assad how best to murder his own people.

I could go on, the list is endless and that does not even begin to address the internal power struggle between Ahmadinejad and Khamanai which could spill out into foreign policy, but it's pointless some posters will always choose to believe one of the worlds' most odious regimes over their own government - at least they have the freedom of speech to do so.

[flying]

I see an indecent haste amongst certain posters to believe the government of Iran

Actually I see the opposite with many trying to discredit a country....

Very odd considering it was an American Citizen who was supposedly apprehended for this farce.

Yet the usual foaming at the mouth...chomping at the bit to discredit/bomb a country that as yet has

not been proven to have any involvement what so ever.

Yes I see it a bit differently I guess....Must be that old innocent until proven guilty thingy.

[Wallaby]

Moral compass, excuse me I thought for a second you were talking about Iran. I see an indecent haste amongst certain posters to believe the government of Iran, with it's sterling human rights and press freedom records over the U.S, naturally with added tinfoil hat Zionist conspiracy theories thrown in for good measure. I repeat, Iran has acted in provocative ways and openly armed terrorists all over the world. We have the Hizbollah virtual takeover of Lebanon, supplying arms to terrorists in Afghanistan, almost weekly threats to destroy Israel, threats to station their navy outside U.S waters, supporting insurrection against the governments of Bahrain and Saudi Arabia, sending revolutionary guards to advise Assad how best to murder his own people.

I could go on, the list is endless and that does not even begin to address the internal power struggle between Ahmadinejad and Khamanai which could spill out into foreign policy, but it's pointless some posters will always choose to believe one of the worlds' most odious regimes over their own government - at least they have the freedom of speech to do so.

I think you mean......the US.

Just because you don't agree with the govt, or type of govt does not mean they are automatically lying. One must consider other aspects to determine who is telling the truth. If you wish to just believe everything the US govt tells you just because you don't like the Iranian govt then I pity you.

Puleeease, enough of the freedom of speech crap. Not all civilized first world countries have freedom of speech, it is overrated and overused in a lame attempt to denigrate those countries that don't have it. Not all countries without freedom of speech are bad you know.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Wallaby

[Jingthing]

None of us posting here are insiders. So we do have to consider the source. I think most rational people, including Iranians, would give more credibility to information from the government of President Obama than to the different power factions in the Iranian regime. People have to go on what they can know in the present.

[Steely Dan]

Puleeease, enough of the freedom of speech crap. Not all civilized first world countries have freedom of speech, it is overrated and overused in a lame attempt to denigrate those countries that don't have it. Not all countries without freedom of speech are bad you know.

If there was a nobel prize for moral relativism you would surely be up for it. Perhaps you have a point though, if the U.S released the allegations about the Iranian plot and you were not able to question it then your tinfoil hat theories would never see the light of day and everyone would or at least appear to follow the party line and wave stars and stripes flags enthusiastically as Tehran was enveloped by a mushroom cloud.

[Wallaby]

Puleeease, enough of the freedom of speech crap. Not all civilized first world countries have freedom of speech, it is overrated and overused in a lame attempt to denigrate those countries that don't have it. Not all countries without freedom of speech are bad you know.

If there was a nobel prize for moral relativism you would surely be up for it. Perhaps you have a point though, if the U.S released the allegations about the Iranian plot and you were not able to question it then your tinfoil hat theories would never see the light of day and everyone would or at least appear to follow the party line and wave stars and stripes flags enthusiastically as Tehran was enveloped by a mushroom cloud.

Thank you for your kind words but I'd decline the Nobel prize as I'm not in it for the glory. I'd rather just use logic instead of towing the govt line and accepting everything they say.

It is a bit mischevous of the US govt to come out saying the Iranian govt are involved if they don't actually offer any evidence. If they do that then they are damned for doing exactly what they accuse the Iranian govt of doing, just making things up to suit their own agenda.

Don't forget the car salesman is actually a US citizen. Perhaps the US govt should be looking in the mirror instead of casting aspersions on other countries.

You seem under the misaprehension that I believe the Iranian govt. I don't, I also don't believe the US govt. I don't have enough evidence before me to draw a conclusion, unlike yourself.

[chuckd]

None of us posting here are insiders. So we do have to consider the source. I think most rational people, including Iranians, would give more credibility to information from the government of President Obama than to the different power factions in the Iranian regime. People have to go on what they can know in the present.

What makes you believe anybody really trusts the Obama administration either?

I have noticed Obama is running for reelection. An incident with Iran could bolster his standing with some hawks that might otherwise not be with him. It seems to have knocked unemployment off the front page, as has this ridiculous OWS experience.

I have noticed the noise from "Fast and Furious" has calmed down in the media, which permits AG Holder some leeway in preparing an excuse for all his department's illegal actions and his own attempts to blame others. He has now blunted a threat to the US in the eyes of the main stream media and will look good for a few days.

I do not trust Obama, Holder, Iran or Pakistan. I probably wouldn't trust Mossad but they haven't said anything that I know of.

Is Iran a threat to the world? Of course they are because of their threat to block the Strait of Hormuz and stop the flow of oil from the Middle East. This action could have a disastrous affect on the world's economy at a time when it is not needed.

I don't believe Iran will attack Israel with nukes, simply because Tehran and most of Iran would be turned into glass with a retaliatory strike from Israel. The Iranian leaders don't mind sending others to perform suicide missions but the Ayatollahs don't want to join them just yet.

This whole thing will die down in a few days or weeks when the next incident takes over the headlines.

[flying]

This whole thing will die down in a few days or weeks when the next incident takes over the headlines.

That is true & the next incident will come & the next & the next.

Because if they dont blind us with incidents some may notice the US is in dire straights financially.

[Wallaby]

None of us posting here are insiders. So we do have to consider the source. I think most rational people, including Iranians, would give more credibility to information from the government of President Obama than to the different power factions in the Iranian regime. People have to go on what they can know in the present.

What makes you believe anybody really trusts the Obama administration either?

I have noticed Obama is running for reelection. An incident with Iran could bolster his standing with some hawks that might otherwise not be with him. It seems to have knocked unemployment off the front page, as has this ridiculous OWS experience.

I have noticed the noise from "Fast and Furious" has calmed down in the media, which permits AG Holder some leeway in preparing an excuse for all his department's illegal actions and his own attempts to blame others. He has now blunted a threat to the US in the eyes of the main stream media and will look good for a few days.

I do not trust Obama, Holder, Iran or Pakistan. I probably wouldn't trust Mossad but they haven't said anything that I know of.

Is Iran a threat to the world? Of course they are because of their threat to block the Strait of Hormuz and stop the flow of oil from the Middle East. This action could have a disastrous affect on the world's economy at a time when it is not needed.

I don't believe Iran will attack Israel with nukes, simply because Tehran and most of Iran would be turned into glass with a retaliatory strike from Israel. The Iranian leaders don't mind sending others to perform suicide missions but the Ayatollahs don't want to join them just yet.

This whole thing will die down in a few days or weeks when the next incident takes over the headlines.

Good reasoned post.

[GentlemanJim]

I again point out that only one of the however many countries we have mentioned, wears "By way of deception, we wage war" on their lapel pin. Armed with that knowledge, is it not logical to look for the deceptions as a first course of action?

What a quite brilliant post Pakboong!

[Ulysses G.]

I again point out that only one of the however many countries we have mentioned, wears "By way of deception, we wage war" on their lapel pin. Armed with that knowledge, is it not logical to look for the deceptions as a first course of action?

Not when it is no secret that every county uses deception to wage wars.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Exsexyman]

A quotation from Mark Twain comes to mind.

'Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed regularly and for the same reasons'. How right he was.

[GentlemanJim]

I again point out that only one of the however many countries we have mentioned, wears "By way of deception, we wage war" on their lapel pin. Armed with that knowledge, is it not logical to look for the deceptions as a first course of action?

Googling that quote brings a page of links which sadly might reflect your favoured reading matter and psyche.

This one too. Hate blogs and no legitimate sources at all.

“We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.”

I wonder what that means?

Ulysees

Too much of the whistling smiley me thinks. You must use Google hate because when I go on google I dont get a screen full of hate sites, then again with 187000 results I am sure there must be some in there.

Casey was a very naughty boy and has been named as one of the main men responsible for supplying arms to Nicaraguan rebels after it was forbidden to do so by Congress. He also supervised a budget of 1 Billion US to arm the Mujahadeen (Taliban). His quote concerning disinformation is everywhere and he said it in 1981 during his first staff meeting as Director of the CIA.

The US has set many precedents in terms of lying and deceiving it's public, so when a story concerning a bungled attempt to kill a Saudi Diplomat arises, so soon after 'fast and furious', why can you not bring it upon yourself to scrutinize it thoroughly? Mr Casey was right!

[Scott]

Fourteen posts deleted by me. At least one by another moderator. Off-topic posts, replies to off-topic posts, off-topic discussion of religion (Islam), personal attacks, etc. etc.

A few had some substance, but unfortunately, it would be way too time consuming to edit the deleted quotes out of them.

Please exercise care, restraint and consideration for other posters.

[Pakboong]

I again point out that only one of the however many countries we have mentioned, wears "By way of deception, we wage war" on their lapel pin. Armed with that knowledge, is it not logical to look for the deceptions as a first course of action?

Not when it is no secret that every county uses deception to wage wars.

Exactly the point I wanted to make.

[Steely Dan]

I again point out that only one of the however many countries we have mentioned, wears "By way of deception, we wage war" on their lapel pin. Armed with that knowledge, is it not logical to look for the deceptions as a first course of action?

Not when it is no secret that every county uses deception to wage wars.

Exactly the point I wanted to make.

Nope, That's somewhat disingenuous when you specifically single out Mossad and by extension Israel in a topic concerning a plot by Iran, an Islamic theocracy against Saudi Arabia, another theocracy.

[Scott]

And Steely Dan is correct on that point and further discussion is going to result in suspensions.

You have been warned...

[Ulysses G.]

why can you not bring it upon yourself to scrutinize it thoroughly? Mr Casey was right!

It would have been a lot more impressive if someone had pointed out a trustworthy source to verify that supposed quote. I'm sure that everyone realizes that the Internet is full of fake quotes on nutty websites that are used to support false premises and this certainly appears to be one of them or there would be some kind of verification from a legitimate publication.

These are the very same websites that promote the idea that the Iranian terror scheme is really a CIA plot, that 9/11 was an inside job and that professional kook Michael Scheuer somehow knows more about what is going on than the many thousands of rational CIA employees who never got fired from their unit for odd behavior.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[cdnvic]

When a moderator says to drop a line of discussion, that means drop it, not start discussing it two posts later. No more warnings. Next time it's suspensions. (2 posts deleted)

[koheesti]

a guy who was fired from the CIA for mental issues

This is categorically untrue.

Absolutely correct up-country. Scheuer resigned of his own accord. It is often the tactic of such staunch Government supporters as Ulysees to falsely try and discredit people.

Sorry, but do any of you really think you know the circumstances behind why this guy is no longer with the CIA?

[koheesti]

He also supervised a budget of 1 Billion US to arm the Mujahadeen (Taliban).

The Mujahadeen in the 1980's are NOT the same as the Taliban of the mid-90s.

[Scott]

Let's keep it civil.

The guy left the CIA. We have no idea of the circumstances. Professional differences, mental problems, better opportunities (he can't really do much talking while employed).

It could be a combination of the above. A lot of people are given the option of leaving rather than being fired--for whatever reason. Certain benefits accrue to those who resign. It also avoids those messy law suits.

It's not really the point of the thread.